No City Game, Again
- Thread starter maxxwell
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We weren't packing the Pete lately. If you want to attract casual fans, Nicholls State ain't helping. And at least 2000 people cared about the Dukes last year. I took my daughter to the Fitz to see Miami one year....conference game....and the announced attendance was under 700.
"Coach Capel and I regularly discuss non-conference scheduling and how to balance it against 20 ACC games, the ACC-Big Ten Challenge, as well as special opportunities like this year's Myrtle Beach Invitational," Pitt AD Heather Lyke said in a statement. "A game with Duquesne this season did not fit with our non-ACC scheduling model. However, we have provided Duquesne with a game contract to play at the Petersen Events Center during the 2021-22 season and we are awaiting their response to our offer to play."
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29176081/city-game-pitt-duquesne-return-2020
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29176081/city-game-pitt-duquesne-return-2020
The break in the City Game looks worse for Pitt because of all the whining and bellyaching and "play-it-for-the-fans-sake" kvetching that the athletic department has spewed over Penn State in football. And fomented the local media to do the same. Pitt is handing Duquesne the same screwdriver that it bitched about getting up the wazoo from the Pedds. Penn State, in its arrogance to dictate terms, is one thing. The Dukes are willing to play Pitt on the dark side of the moon, and that is something quite different. I've hated Duquesne for a million years, but I have to side with them here. Play the damn game.
What if, hear me out, Pitt keeps balking and Duquesne keeps talking in the media about how we’re scared to play them so that when it finally does get resumed in a few years, there’s a ton of hype/beef attached to the game and they parlay it into a sold out PPG Paints Arena? Not to mention both programs would be quite good by then.
This is absolutely not what’s happening, but it’s fun to think of this from a WWE heel-turn perspective. A few years of trash talk and a couple Ts once it’s renewed would certainly bring the allure back.
This is absolutely not what’s happening, but it’s fun to think of this from a WWE heel-turn perspective. A few years of trash talk and a couple Ts once it’s renewed would certainly bring the allure back.
Hahahahah... I was reading the first paragraph thinking there’s no way this guy is serious... well doneWhat if, hear me out, Pitt keeps balking and Duquesne keeps talking in the media about how we’re scared to play them so that when it finally does get resumed in a few years, there’s a ton of hype/beef attached to the game and they parlay it into a sold out PPG Paints Arena? Not to mention both programs would be quite good by then.
This is absolutely not what’s happening, but it’s fun to think of this from a WWE heel-turn perspective. A few years of trash talk and a couple Ts once it’s renewed would certainly bring the allure back.
Sean?What if, hear me out, Pitt keeps balking and Duquesne keeps talking in the media about how we’re scared to play them so that when it finally does get resumed in a few years, there’s a ton of hype/beef attached to the game and they parlay it into a sold out PPG Paints Arena? Not to mention both programs would be quite good by then.
This is absolutely not what’s happening, but it’s fun to think of this from a WWE heel-turn perspective. A few years of trash talk and a couple Ts once it’s renewed would certainly bring the allure back.
To those who say it is not a big deal. So far we have four pages and 130 posts of passionate debate in less than 24 hours. Jeffries committing got less than 100 posts.
I mean, I get Duquesne's perspective here. They have a really good chance of going to the tournament next year and they had a verbal agreement to play a P6 team that the P6 team ducked right out of. I'd be mad too.
Plus, the campuses are so close, etc. to say is not a rivalry is a stretch. Didn't I view a program with Pitt players recalling their days of playing in the City Game?
Jeffress committing was unequivocally positive for the program, so there was very little to whine about. This is not a big deal at all - it's part and parcel of gaming the schedule, something every program does, but it gives people an opportunity to moan about the program's perception and demonstrate that quintessential Pittsburgh insecurity yet again.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather the game be played than not, but the only truly compelling argument I've heard for why this is remotely meaningful is that Dusquesne would probably be a good opponent for us this year given their expected NET ranking and the inherent risk in playing a dud team instead.
there is no rivalry
Even at our lowest under stallings we beat them
I’m okay with playing them but not playing them didn’t change the outlook of the season at all
It’s an assumed win which means it’s not worth sweating
And then we beat them something like 78-62, and everyone thinks to themselves, oh, yeah, now I remember why I didn't really care about that game back when they played it every season.
I understand your point and this is not a refutation of your post, but didn't Stallings lose to them when one of our two prima donna's had to sit out the game and Stallings was too ticked off to adjust, spent the night staring the kid down on the bench instead of coaching?oh the good ole' days............Maybe I dreamed that...it's called a night mare
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I also remember that game. Just looked it up, Pitt lost by 9 without Artis. Pitt had Mike Young, Cam Johnson, Chris Jones, Sheldon Jeter and Ryan Luther. Dukes had Emile Blackman and Mike Lewis. A taste of things to come.
It was bad PR period, at a time when the PR, because of recruiting, was at a high level. I think Pitt/Duq, Pitt/RMU, Duq/RMU are good for the local fans increases, puts some fans in the stands, and some dollars in the area coffers. That being said, Duquesne is basically badmouthing Pitt, yet has refused to play RobMorris. Also lost in it is that Pitt has offered to play Duq the following year at the Pete, and Duq has not yet accepted.
Stallings benched Artis to try and make some kind of point, and then IIRC told Artis when the game ended “you see what you did?” Or something similar.
Stallings was right - he certainly make a statement with that game!
Since I don't live in the Pittsburgh area, I care very little about the local PR effect. IMHO, Capel's job is to win enough OOC games to maximize his chances to have an over 0.500 season and possibly make the post season (NIT at least). Given that in the ACC it will be a struggle to approach 10 wins he cannot make the OOC too difficult. Making local fans happy (or happier) by playing the local schools yearly has to be a secondary consideration. If Capel knew he had a strong enough team to win 14 or more ACC games I suspect his thinking might be different and he could/would play a stronger OOC schedule.
I have to assume he feels that the Myrtle Beach Classic, the ACC-BIG challenge game and the WVU game in Morgantown must provide the maximum number of challenging games that he believes is consistent with maximizing the number of OOC wins. I support him fully in that regard.
IMHO, much of his thinking on this I suspect involves having a team so dependent on freshmen to improve over last year. The incoming freshman will need extra "breathing room" in the OOC to allow them to acclimate to college ball--especially given that the coronavirus situation probably will keep the players off campus until September.
This isn’t about Capel but about coaches in general. Will be fun to see how many use coronavirus as excuses in media and to their administrations to try and not get fired like everyone else wasn’t working in the same conditions.
Good post, I don't like it, but it does provide a very credible explanation and perhaps the only reason to put the AD et.al on the spot.
Right. And that is Duquesne's one win against us in the last 18 times we've played them.
Right. Duquense thinks we should play them every year, even though they have been essentially uncompetitive for the better part of two decades (and really, for the better part of FOUR decades). But Duquesne has refused to play Robert Morris for years. Why? Because Robert Morris started beating them.
Although now that I actually look it up, maybe I have the reason wrong. The last eight times Duquesne and Robert Morris played Duquesne won all but seven of them. Ouch! 1-7 in your last eight against Robert Morris. So maybe Duquesne stopped playing that series because they were nearly as uncompetitive with Robert Morris as they were with us.
Dambrot said he wouldn't play them while they had kids from Akron still on their team. They are now gone and he is trying to schedule them.
Yeah, and we have said that Duquesne just wouldn't fit into our jam-packed schedule these last two years.
To-may-to, To-mah-to
Last year was one thing due to the Bobby Mo new building inauguration. This year there is probably the issue that Duquesne may have an unusually strong team (peak season) with 5 returning starters while we will be breaking in some freshmen and weaker during the OOC than later in the season. If so that could be why Capel doesn’t want the game this year.
This idea is consistent with Sagarin’s final end of last season computer rankings with Duquesne and Pitt in a virtual dead heat at #109 and #110, respectively.
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If so few care, why do you feel compelled to post it over and over again in this thread? Why does this thread even exist? Obviously some people care.
What if the Dukes play a tight game and college bb fans of both programs got a chance to watch their fav local team at the same time ? How’s that bad for college bb in the city of Pgh and it’s better than beating SW NE Technical Institute of NJ !
We have 4 pages of crying like women on here. They're not playing them and I know we would all like them too but its over its not happening. Sheesh our 5 commits are still coming JC is still trying to pull in even better guys so not playing them is not stopping anything so grow up and become real men and get over it!
I am over it, but I will make sure to attend The City Game everytime it is played in the future, no excuses.
Guys. I keep saying it. Total number of wins don't matter. It's quality of wins vs bad losses. That's why 27-4 SoCon teams don't get at large bids while 18-12 P6 schools do. Saying we need X number of non con wins isn't right.
I do agree you need to adjust your non con schedule to the composition of your team. A FR dominated team you probably should play more cupcakes. But a team like Pitt that we believe should have NCCAT aspirations, a schedule that will maximize the chance for Q1 and Q2 wins. Duquesne is a chance for a Q2 win (if we play them at home or bordeline Q1 if we play them at PPG.
Even though the ACC is going to 20 games it doesn't mean we'll get 2 more opportunities for quality wins. The schedule is made towards TV. And unless the powers to be think we are top 8. Our 2 extra games will most likely be against teams predicted to finish in the bottom half of the league.
So in order to get quality wins in the non con. You either do home and homes. Play schools on the road. That Duquesne wants to play at the Pete for free is a gift.
And if we are a bubble team or left out of the tournament because we lack Q1 and Q2 wins you should also get over it.
I'm one that thinks Pitt should play Penn St. every year, but 2 wins in our last 12 games is pretty bad, as is 10 wins in our last 40. I can't imagine how bad the record would be if not for that glorious 12 year stretch of good football from the mid 70s to the late 80s where we played them evenly (6-6). Outside of that stretch, we're 4-24, yikes!
So recent dominance. should be the factor?? No thanks, we'd be kicked out of the ACC in hoops. That will change, of course, and the Dukes might beat us this year, too.
Yes I will that's what real men do. They get over it adapt and keep going and don't cry about it but in saying that I think Pitt will get 10 ACC wins this year and I think that will get them in the tournament regardless of not playing Duquesne! IMHO
You are correct on total number of wins not mattering--but only up to a point. Your specific example is correct. However, it is entirely possible to have a very strong team play a very very tough schedule and wind up around 0.500 and be left out of even the NIT while a relatively weaker team gets into the post season because they finished enough games over 0.500.
For example, your hypothetical 18-12 P6 team might at least get to the NIT while a hypothetically stronger P6 team that played a tougher OOC schedule that put them at 15-15 or 16-14 will stay home. The W-L records will matter when comparing P6 teams that all have 18-19 total wins or less and I expect Pitt to fall in that category even if they manage to go 9-2 or better OOC.
Concerning expecting Pitt to be an NCAA tournament contender this coming season---Sure, we all hope that will prove to be the case. But, realistically, should we really believe it?
Many (most?) fans on this board believe our starters (at least early season) will be Brown, Toney, Champagnie, Horton and Johnson. Although there have been glowing reports as to how great Horton looked in practice none of us have seen him play in a Pitt uniform. We don't know if he will provide any more to the team overall (offense and defensive contributions combined) than McGowens did.
We also have no idea whether Hugley, as a true freshman (especially early in the season), will provide as much or more than Hamilton did last year. Given this assessment, which I believe a neutral outside observer would make, this year's team would have a hard time winning more games than last season. It can certainly be hoped that won't be the case because it would be a disappointment. But, IMHO, there is no guarantee that Hugley and the other freshmen will be able to make the W-L record any better given that they are just true freshmen.
Finally, regarding playing Duquesne--even at home--means playing a team that is on paper Pitt's equal (based on end of last season's Sagarin ratings and both team's returning players). At home Pitt's only advantage is its home court advantage (about 3-points) and it is probably offset by this game being such a big deal to Duquesne and not so much to Pitt.
Bottom line, I stand by my belief that Pitt has more to lose playing this game this year than it stands to gain. In the longer term I don't mind it coming back regularly or almost regularly.
Caveat: I might think differently, perhaps, if the game were to be scheduled for late January or early February because I do expect the freshmen to be making a difference by then that I don't believe they will be making around the beginning of December when the City Game has typically been played.
The reason PITT isn't playing the Dukes is simple.
I heard from inside sources that Fauci's computer models showed PITT losing by 2 million so Capel and Lyke decided not to play the game.
There's speculation that Fauci may not have pressed the college basketball button on his Commodore 64 system that was logged in to pandemic tutorial. It's only been used a few times in the 1980's and 1990's and the instruction manual has been misplaced.
I heard from inside sources that Fauci's computer models showed PITT losing by 2 million so Capel and Lyke decided not to play the game.
There's speculation that Fauci may not have pressed the college basketball button on his Commodore 64 system that was logged in to pandemic tutorial. It's only been used a few times in the 1980's and 1990's and the instruction manual has been misplaced.
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