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Ok State Recruiting Rankings

Gunga_Galunga

Heisman Candidate
Jan 12, 2017
7,957
10,438
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Haven't had a top 25 recruiting ranking the last 5 years, yet they finished #11 last year and have a top 10 team this year.

2013 - 36th
2014 - 27th
2015 - 38th
2016 - 45th
2017 - 36th

Average 36.4

Good coaching staff who finds talent that fits their system.
 
They do a great job of evaluating talent. We have lost a lot of guys late who had been committed for a while when the "big name" schools come in at the last minute. Guys like Ronald Jones (to USC), Obo Oronronkwo (to OU and if you saw him Saturday against Ohio St. he was unblockable), We lost 2 to A&M last year. Seems like we lose a couple of highly rated guys every year which would help our rankings.
 
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I'd say your recruiting has ended up just fine. Hopefully Narduzzi and Pitt can reproduce this model.
A lot harder to do in a pro system, but it also is a big help to out recruit your competition and not really focus on things nationally. In the Big "12" they do that against everyone except OU and UT. UT has obviously had a lot of coaching issues and Ok State has stayed ahead of them lately. OU, on the other hand, has beaten Ok State 12 out of the last 14 years.

So, Ok State beats who they should beat or are pretty darn even with, plus UT, and loses to who they should lose to. The competition is a lot tougher in the ACC, so that likely wouldn't work out well for us, especially if we are also playing PSU.
 
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Rank in the B12, out of 10 teams.

2013 - 6th
2014 - 3rd
2015 - 5th
2016 - 6th
2017 - 4th

Average is 4.8 or middle of the pack. They are outperforming their recruiting rankings. Pitt needs to out perform theirs by recruiting kids they can turn into players, because they'll never recruit near the top of the ACC.
 
Haven't had a top 25 recruiting ranking the last 5 years, yet they finished #11 last year and have a top 10 team this year.

2013 - 36th
2014 - 27th
2015 - 38th
2016 - 45th
2017 - 36th

Average 36.4

Good coaching staff who finds talent that fits their system.
Good o p. This can work, with the right coaching and some time for the depth to build up.
 
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Rank in the B12, out of 10 teams.

2013 - 6th
2014 - 3rd
2015 - 5th
2016 - 6th
2017 - 4th

Average is 4.8 or middle of the pack. They are outperforming their recruiting rankings. Pitt needs to out perform theirs by recruiting kids they can turn into players, because they'll never recruit near the top of the ACC.
Yes. This. Gotta get class near or in Top 25. Gotta mold a winning program a la Sparty, Wisconsin, Stanford, Oklahoma State, Washington. Took Alvarez and Dantonio about four years to do. Hell, even Harbaugh didn't turn Stanford around overnight. Gotta have a little patience.

When Pitt, reasonable fans looked to the Sparty model. Well, Dantonio went 7-6, 9-4 and 6-7 in his first three seasons at MSU. Then, in his fourth season, he registered an 11-3 season record.
 
4-star Mason Rudolph is a big reason they're out-playing their recruiting rankings. The easiest way to win more games than your talent dictates you should is by having a very good gunslinger back there.
Cowboys started their turn around long ago with Les Miles. Gundy was the part of it. A big part of it. He now has and has had players - albeit not always exactly who he'd like due to recruiting wars v. LSU, AM, UT, OU - that fit his system. He especially gets those dudes at QB, WR and RB.
 
Haven't had a top 25 recruiting ranking the last 5 years, yet they finished #11 last year and have a top 10 team this year.

2013 - 36th
2014 - 27th
2015 - 38th
2016 - 45th
2017 - 36th

Average 36.4

Good coaching staff who finds talent that fits their system.

Unless of course they are 3 star players, then they suck and recruiting must improve!
 
4-star Mason Rudolph is a big reason they're out-playing their recruiting rankings. The easiest way to win more games than your talent dictates you should is by having a very good gunslinger back there.

100% CORRECT. A lack of a top notched QB has been a factor as to why we haven't been able to achieve better results.
 
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Cowboys started their turn around long ago with Les Miles. Gundy was the part of it. A big part of it. He now has and has had players - albeit not always exactly who he'd like due to recruiting wars v. LSU, AM, UT, OU - that fit his system. He especially gets those dudes at QB, WR and RB.
He does recruit WR and RB well, but the QB is key. That goes for most teams (not Bama, they are just so good at every other spot on the field it doesn't matter.)

I think Duzz has the defense headed to a good place. The difference between us being the next Boston College(great defense, 3 and out most drives on offense) or the next Michigan State is gonna come down to the QB play.
 
He does recruit WR and RB well, but the QB is key. That goes for most teams (not Bama, they are just so good at every other spot on the field it doesn't matter.)

I think Duzz has the defense headed to a good place. The difference between us being the next Boston College(great defense, 3 and out most drives on offense) or the next Michigan State is gonna come down to the QB play.
Agreed. But, again, he didn't hit the ground running at Oklahoma State...
4-7(1-7)
7-6(3-5)
7-6(4-4)
9-4(5-3)
9-4(6-2)
11-2(6-2)
12-1(8-1)
8-5(5-4)
10-3(7-2)
7-6(4-5)
10-3(7-2)
10-3(7-2)
...are Gundy's records from his first season to his most recent with the Pokes.
 
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What OK State has that PITT hasn't had in a long time is stability at the HC position. There's been so much turnover in the last 10 years with each coach trying to recruit their style of players to fit their system. In Year 3 we are finally starting to see some of the defensive players Duzz wants to employ that fit his system, but there are all underclassmen and ineperienced for the most part (aside from a few transfers).
 
OK State does have a lot of success recruiting JC recruits I've always felt Gundy was an under rated coach.
 
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Haven't had a top 25 recruiting ranking the last 5 years, yet they finished #11 last year and have a top 10 team this year.

2013 - 36th
2014 - 27th
2015 - 38th
2016 - 45th
2017 - 36th

Average 36.4

Good coaching staff who finds talent that fits their system.

When you have a star at QB, it can cover up for alot of ills.
 
Agreed. But, again, he didn't hit the ground running at Oklahoma State...
4-7(1-7)
7-6(3-5)
7-6(4-4)
9-4(5-3)
9-4(6-2)
11-2(6-2)
12-1(8-1)
8-5(5-4)
10-3(7-2)
7-6(4-5)
10-3(7-2)
10-3(7-2)
...are Gundy's records from his first season to his most recent with the Pokes.

This proves that you need to be patient when you find the right guy.
 
James Washington was in the same recruiting class as Mason Rudolph. Rudolph had several bigtime offers. James Washington had two offers, period: Texas State and OK State.

James Washington had TCU and Texas offer him late in the process.

Gundy's "moneyball" approach is to find kids who are good students and leaders in high school who love to play football. If you look at our classes individually it is obvious that in every class there are a bunch of kids who are clearly underrated and should be 4*s instead of 3*s. Why they are underrated regularly is a good topic of debate. Many think if those same kids had committed to Texas they would've been bumped up to a 4*.
 
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Haven't had a top 25 recruiting ranking the last 5 years, yet they finished #11 last year and have a top 10 team this year.

2013 - 36th
2014 - 27th
2015 - 38th
2016 - 45th
2017 - 36th

Average 36.4

Good coaching staff who finds talent that fits their system.

And they have had double diget wins FIVE 5 times since 2010 including a 11 and 12 win season!

For contrast we have had ONE 1 season of double diget wins in the past 30+ years
 
A lot of truth about the QB position here. If Oklahoma St is stuck with Wes Lunt rather than Rudolph the records probably look a lot different.

Michigan St a good example as well, had a nice run at the QB position of guys that made the NFL. Last year they didn't and I still don't think they have. Despite the 2-0 start I still see them as a 6-6 type team this year.
 
Rank in the B12, out of 10 teams.

2013 - 6th
2014 - 3rd
2015 - 5th
2016 - 6th
2017 - 4th

Average is 4.8 or middle of the pack. They are outperforming their recruiting rankings. Pitt needs to out perform theirs by recruiting kids they can turn into players, because they'll never recruit near the top of the ACC.
Look at the actual classes, though. They were "6th" in 2016, but their average stars were 0.01 behind Texas Tech. They had an average star 0.31 better than WVU, but took 6 fewer players. So, really, they were 4th behind UT and OU and TCU for a year. In 2015 they were (again) 0.01 in average star behind the team ahead of them and then WVU, OU, and UT. Again in 2013 there were 5 teams in the Big 12 (behind UT and OU, as always) within 0.11 in average stars and Kansas was "ranked" last of those teams despite the highest average stars.

Oklahoma State has done a good job beating everyone, except OU and UT when they aren't a complete dumpster fire turning over HCs, they are competing with and should beat. That's great for them, but they play in a conference where only 2 teams recruit better than they do and one of them has been down hard for the last 5 years.

In Pitt's case, we play in a much more competitive conference. We have to (at a minimum) be even with Virginia Tech, Miami, and UNC. If we don't we have to pull upsets (on talent) AND beat much more talented teams with very stable HCs and staffs from FSU or Clemson to win our conference or get a major bowl. OOC we have to face teams like PSU and ND with much more talent, as well. So, for Pitt to have a 10 win season in the ACC, we probably need to pull at least 2 upsets (out of generally: 1 OOC, 2-3 in division, and maybe 1 rotational ACC opponent like FSU or Clemson) and win all the games we play against the same or lower level talent. Oklahoma State probably doesn't have to pull a single upset to go 10-2 and maybe not even one to go 11-1, if you consider the turmoil leading the talent at Texas. Also, they only have 1 Big 12 championship.

So, sure, if we are similar to OkState in terms of upsets vs. more talented teams and pull off one (or none) a year, we can win 8 or 9 games (assuming we also win all the other games) most years. Because of their conference and schedule, they can win 9 or 10.

As others have said, finding QBs is a big part of it, too.
 
If you want use average stars, go right ahead because you'll find it's even worse. You can parse years and margin on select years, but it is what it is.

They have not out recruited Baylor or TCU over this time period and are probably equal to WVU. At best they are 5th.

Of course QBs matter.
 
Look at the actual classes, though. They were "6th" in 2016, but their average stars were 0.01 behind Texas Tech. They had an average star 0.31 better than WVU, but took 6 fewer players. So, really, they were 4th behind UT and OU and TCU for a year. In 2015 they were (again) 0.01 in average star behind the team ahead of them and then WVU, OU, and UT. Again in 2013 there were 5 teams in the Big 12 (behind UT and OU, as always) within 0.11 in average stars and Kansas was "ranked" last of those teams despite the highest average stars.

Oklahoma State has done a good job beating everyone, except OU and UT when they aren't a complete dumpster fire turning over HCs, they are competing with and should beat. That's great for them, but they play in a conference where only 2 teams recruit better than they do and one of them has been down hard for the last 5 years.

In Pitt's case, we play in a much more competitive conference. We have to (at a minimum) be even with Virginia Tech, Miami, and UNC. If we don't we have to pull upsets (on talent) AND beat much more talented teams with very stable HCs and staffs from FSU or Clemson to win our conference or get a major bowl. OOC we have to face teams like PSU and ND with much more talent, as well. So, for Pitt to have a 10 win season in the ACC, we probably need to pull at least 2 upsets (out of generally: 1 OOC, 2-3 in division, and maybe 1 rotational ACC opponent like FSU or Clemson) and win all the games we play against the same or lower level talent. Oklahoma State probably doesn't have to pull a single upset to go 10-2 and maybe not even one to go 11-1, if you consider the turmoil leading the talent at Texas. Also, they only have 1 Big 12 championship.

So, sure, if we are similar to OkState in terms of upsets vs. more talented teams and pull off one (or none) a year, we can win 8 or 9 games (assuming we also win all the other games) most years. Because of their conference and schedule, they can win 9 or 10.

As others have said, finding QBs is a big part of it, too.


You also neglected to mention the private support they receive from their fans...it makes a HUGE difference and helps them compete on a much higher level than they might otherwise occupy. Hail to Pitt!
 
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Ironically, we had a basketball program like this but it was not good enough for some fans.


Football drives the bus at Pitt [and at most P5 schools]. Of course there are some who may say, what was the highest Pitt ever finished in ACC play in basketball? Hail to Pitt!
 
OK State has done a great job under Gundy. They get a lot of Juco kids, and they have an incredible amount of money from boosters. It also helps that Rudolph and Washington both came back to school when they would have been drafted highly.
 
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If you want use average stars, go right ahead because you'll find it's even worse. You can parse years and margin on select years, but it is what it is.

They have not out recruited Baylor or TCU over this time period and are probably equal to WVU. At best they are 5th.

Of course QBs matter.
I agree it is what it is. The difference is talent gaps. They recruit at the same level as schools like WVU, TCU, and Baylor. Those other schools are all on the same level and all are far behind UT and OU. They all swap positions and their average stars and total points are essentially interchangeable year to year. OkState does a good job of beating most of those teams they are on the same level with. They do not do a good job of beating OU.

This is the exact same thing as Wisconsin. They beat the teams the should and are even with. They lose to the teams with more talent. Ok State just plays in a conference that lacks teams with a talent advantage because they are in a small conference, which has several very bad programs in a barren area of the country for talent.

As I said, if Pitt performed similar to this, our ceiling would be about 8-9 wins, unless we pull 3+ regular season upsets. Oklahoma never has to pull 3 talent upsets to win 10 games, let alone 9.

You also neglected to mention the private support they receive from their fans...it makes a HUGE difference and helps them compete on a much higher level than they might otherwise occupy. Hail to Pitt!
That has helped them keep their staff and HC.
 
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I agree it is what it is. The difference is talent gaps. They recruit at the same level as schools like WVU, TCU, and Baylor. Those other schools are all on the same level and all are far behind UT and OU. They all swap positions and their average stars and total points are essentially interchangeable year to year. OkState does a good job of beating most of those teams they are on the same level with. They do not do a good job of beating OU.

This is the exact same thing as Wisconsin. They beat the teams the should and are even with. They lose to the teams with more talent. Ok State just plays in a conference that lacks teams with a talent advantage because they are in a small conference, which has several very bad programs in a barren area of the country for talent.

As I said, if Pitt performed similar to this, our ceiling would be about 8-9 wins, unless we pull 3+ regular season upsets. Oklahoma never has to pull 3 talent upsets to win 10 games, let alone 9.


That has helped them keep their staff and HC.


In addition to some of the best on camp facilities I have ever seen. Hail to Pitt!
 
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Of course I'd take that run. BUT, it just shows the patience the Pokes had with Gundy.
It also shows another thing. Gundy is a native and an alum.....so he wasn't always looking for the first bus out of town to capitalize on his success. Oh, and one other thing, when Pitt has an alum as rich and as engaged as T. Boone Pickens, then let's talk.
 
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Haven't had a top 25 recruiting ranking the last 5 years, yet they finished #11 last year and have a top 10 team this year.

2013 - 36th
2014 - 27th
2015 - 38th
2016 - 45th
2017 - 36th

Average 36.4

Good coaching staff who finds talent that fits their system.
Its why you don't find your coach after a few seasons including a couple bad ones if that happens. Don't worry our lack of leadership will never have that problem.
 
Rank in the B12, out of 10 teams.

2013 - 6th
2014 - 3rd
2015 - 5th
2016 - 6th
2017 - 4th

Average is 4.8 or middle of the pack. They are outperforming their recruiting rankings. Pitt needs to out perform theirs by recruiting kids they can turn into players, because they'll never recruit near the top of the ACC.
Mi ST and Wisconsin have pretty much done the same thing. Impressive thing about those two is they have done it without having stud Qb's. OK St has had good to really good QB play which helps narrow the playing field. Thats the big thing for Pitt. Do a good job in finding under the radar kids, keep them on the team and find a big time QB and you will be fine.
 
Pitt's biggest problem is we haven't been able to keep coaches. Some of that is on Pitt, Walt and DW were forced out. But you can't change coaches, DW to TG to PC to PN, four times a decade and have success. Also had the issue of these coaches running dramatically different systems as well. It has left us thin. PC addressed the offense(especially OL) but didn't do much elsewhere. PN has on paper, recruited better than PC did. I think the key will be will the offense still be good once he gets the D fixed(and he will eventually)
 
Rank in the B12, out of 10 teams.

2013 - 6th
2014 - 3rd
2015 - 5th
2016 - 6th
2017 - 4th

Average is 4.8 or middle of the pack. They are outperforming their recruiting rankings. Pitt needs to out perform theirs by recruiting kids they can turn into players, because they'll never recruit near the top of the ACC.

Literal class ranking is largely irrelevant. Recruiting is about "tiers." The difference between the number 1 class and the number 2 class is meaningless. Instead we group classes 1 through X together and say, "this is a 5 star, tier 1 recruiting class." If anybody in those classes beat the others, it wouldn't be a recruiting upset, because the difference isn't great enough.
I'd want to know where Oklahoma State ranks in terms of tiers. Texas and Oklahoma I'm sure outrecruit them by a tier or two. But Oklahoma generally handles them, as does Texas when they have their coaching situation right (which is rare nowadays). I can't really think of any other team that would be in a tier above Okie State? Maybe TCU?
 
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