ADVERTISEMENT

One Big Too Many?

Zaratoughda

Redshirt
Nov 12, 2009
982
86
28
Last year, Rafael Maia was a starter for Brown and averaged 30 MPG, 9.9 PPG, and 8.7 RPG.

Meanwhile, ANO was a starter at the beginning of the season for Richmond and came off the bench towards the end (Richmond went farther in the NIT then we did) and averaged 23 MPG, 6.6 PPG, 5.1 RPG, and 1.7 BPG.

The thing is, given Young, Artis, Luther and Nix, there is no ways we can get these players anywhere near the minutes they had last year.

So, the obvious idea, is to move Artis to SF (partly or completely) but the problem with that is that was tried last year and did not work, and back at PF Jamel averaged over 20 PPG for a considerable stretch and ended up as our leading scorer. Also, you got Jeter and Jones playing SF already and both have the potential to be significant contributors. So, most likely this is not gonna happen.

If you had just Young, Artis, Maia, Nix and Luther, you could go with a 3 man rotation inside with Young, Artis and Maia and have Nix and Luther as 'backups'. In other words, these two would get minutes in cupcake games but would not see the floor in big games except in case of injury or foul trouble. You could also use Nix on occasion when you wanted some major beef in there, or Luther for some better D. So, IMO that would work.

But, adding ANO makes things... uh... not so simple.

What you could say, is you RS Luther (and that seems to be the way things are going) and now ANO takes Luther's slot... but IMO ANO is a better player (shot blocker) than just a backup.

So, what we can expect now is that minutes inside will be at a premium. Hard to see how JD is gonna get each of them the minutes he would like to play them.

Given the number of minutes Nix can expect.... you might think of RSing him also... but if you do then there goes our only true-sized center.

I think what happened here, with one scholly open and unable to land the high caliber guard in Sterling Gibbs, Dixon just went for the best player available, rather than satisfying a need at guard with a player that probably would not make more impact than... Mike Lecak.

But, given that, he has now gotta manage the rotation and minutes inside and there is gonna be a challenge for sure getting each of them the minutes he would want.

One thing though... is we should be a LOT more solid inside this coming year than we were last year with Uchebo and Randall.

It will just be interesting though to see how many minutes each of them get.

Yeah, I can see something where... ANO ends up spelling Artis (offense/defense) and in games where we got a lead ANO plays more... with the minutes ending up maybe something like 25 and 15.

No?
 
You do not bring in senior transfers that were starters and give them less than 20 minutes (that is if you ever want to recruit a senior starter transfer again).

I see the minutes breakdown this way (this does not mean the players listed strictly play the listed positions)

Young 30 Nix 10
Odoba 20 Maia 20
Artis 30 Jeter 10
Smith 20 Jones 20
Robinson 30 Newkirk/Wilson (whoever is available) 10

Luther redshirts
C.Johnson situational player

Nix needs to play some - We need to find out how good he is - We need to keep him motivated to control his weight - He needs to gain some experience for when he needs to be more of a contributor next season
 
Last year, Rafael Maia was a starter for Brown and averaged 30 MPG, 9.9 PPG, and 8.7 RPG.

Meanwhile, ANO was a starter at the beginning of the season for Richmond and came off the bench towards the end (Richmond went farther in the NIT then we did) and averaged 23 MPG, 6.6 PPG, 5.1 RPG, and 1.7 BPG.

The thing is, given Young, Artis, Luther and Nix, there is no ways we can get these players anywhere near the minutes they had last year.

So, the obvious idea, is to move Artis to SF (partly or completely) but the problem with that is that was tried last year and did not work, and back at PF Jamel averaged over 20 PPG for a considerable stretch and ended up as our leading scorer. Also, you got Jeter and Jones playing SF already and both have the potential to be significant contributors. So, most likely this is not gonna happen.

If you had just Young, Artis, Maia, Nix and Luther, you could go with a 3 man rotation inside with Young, Artis and Maia and have Nix and Luther as 'backups'. In other words, these two would get minutes in cupcake games but would not see the floor in big games except in case of injury or foul trouble. You could also use Nix on occasion when you wanted some major beef in there, or Luther for some better D. So, IMO that would work.

But, adding ANO makes things... uh... not so simple.

What you could say, is you RS Luther (and that seems to be the way things are going) and now ANO takes Luther's slot... but IMO ANO is a better player (shot blocker) than just a backup.

So, what we can expect now is that minutes inside will be at a premium. Hard to see how JD is gonna get each of them the minutes he would like to play them.

Given the number of minutes Nix can expect.... you might think of RSing him also... but if you do then there goes our only true-sized center.

I think what happened here, with one scholly open and unable to land the high caliber guard in Sterling Gibbs, Dixon just went for the best player available, rather than satisfying a need at guard with a player that probably would not make more impact than... Mike Lecak.

But, given that, he has now gotta manage the rotation and minutes inside and there is gonna be a challenge for sure getting each of them the minutes he would want.

One thing though... is we should be a LOT more solid inside this coming year than we were last year with Uchebo and Randall.

It will just be interesting though to see how many minutes each of them get.

Yeah, I can see something where... ANO ends up spelling Artis (offense/defense) and in games where we got a lead ANO plays more... with the minutes ending up maybe something like 25 and 15.

No?

Prior to to getting ANO, i thought there was no way Nix redshirts. Now, I would be surprised if he doesn't.

I would think that redshirting is something that practically no transfer would want to do, but Nix may be agreeable to it if he thinks it will help him develop into the player he seems to be working so hard to become.
 
You do not bring in senior transfers that were starters and give them less than 20 minutes (that is if you ever want to recruit a senior starter transfer again).

I see the minutes breakdown this way (this does not mean the players listed strictly play the listed positions)

Young 30 Nix 10
Odoba 20 Maia 20
Artis 30 Jeter 10
Smith 20 Jones 20
Robinson 30 Newkirk/Wilson (whoever is available) 10

Luther redshirts
C.Johnson situational player

Nix needs to play some - We need to find out how good he is - We need to keep him motivated to control his weight - He needs to gain some experience for when he needs to be more of a contributor next season

I think it speaks to what Nix is, at best a kid who has some upside, but needs work. If they don't redshirt him with these two coming it, he's obviously a pretty marginal guy.

I think we all see some serious short comings with guard depth, so JD obviously just took the best guys he could get.

But, they need to get some real quality prep guards to join Maginault.
 
You do not bring in senior transfers that were starters and give them less than 20 minutes (that is if you ever want to recruit a senior starter transfer again).

I see the minutes breakdown this way (this does not mean the players listed strictly play the listed positions)

Young 30 Nix 10
Odoba 20 Maia 20
Artis 30 Jeter 10
Smith 20 Jones 20
Robinson 30 Newkirk/Wilson (whoever is available) 10

Luther redshirts
C.Johnson situational player

Nix needs to play some - We need to find out how good he is - We need to keep him motivated to control his weight - He needs to gain some experience for when he needs to be more of a contributor next season

The grad transfer bigs both have only this season to play. Nix, as a JUCO, has 3 years to play two. Unless he shows up and looks like a guy who can play at least 20 minutes and average a double double (points-rebounds) in ACC games he will redshirt. Why would any coach with his head screwed on straight play this guy limited minutes and waste one of his two years of eligibility when he can redshirt him for development and get two better years out of him later? So, unless Nix is significantly better right now than either Maia or ANO, he will benefit the team more by taking a redshirt development year vs wasting one of his two years getting limited PT.
 
Last edited:
My guess at PT--

Young 30, Artis 30
Odoba 20, Maia 20
Smith 20, Jones 15
Jeter 15, Johnson 10
Robinson 32 Newkirk 8

Nix, Luther, Wilson all redshirt
 
The grad transfer bigs both have only this season to play. Nix, as a JUCO, has 3 years to play two. Unless he shows up and looks like a guy who can play at least 20 minutes and average a double double (points-rebounds) in ACC games he will redshirt. Why would any coach with his head screwed on straight play this guy limited minutes and waste one of his two years of eligibility when he can redshirt him for development and get two better years out of him later? So, unless Nix is significantly better right now than either Maia or ANO, he will benefit the team more by taking a redshirt development year vs wasting one of his two years getting limited PT.

I expect Nix to be able to contribute, but I do not know if he is worth tying up a scholarship for three years. Lets get what we can get in two years, then move on to getting hopefully a more impact type player.
 
I expect Nix to be able to contribute, but I do not know if he is worth tying up a scholarship for three years. Lets get what we can get in two years, then move on to getting hopefully a more impact type player.

It all depends on what coaches see this summer and in practice:

1. if they think he is worth starters minutes this season he will play.
2. if they think he can develop into a future starter he will redshirt.
3. if they think he hasn't starters minutes as a future upside he will get limited minutes this coming season.

Unless injuries to starters dictate--it will be a bad sign and disappointing if Nix plays and plays limited minutes next season.
 
My guess at PT--

Young 30, Artis 30
Odoba 20, Maia 20
Smith 20, Jones 15
Jeter 15, Johnson 10
Robinson 32 Newkirk 8

Nix, Luther, Wilson all redshirt
I don't see Wilson taking a RS unless he is totally unprepared. Even with Smith and a healthy Cam, we are still thin at guard. Plus he will be counted on for minutes his sophomore year with Smith and JR's departure and any experience gained next year will help.
 
Last year, Rafael Maia was a starter for Brown and averaged 30 MPG, 9.9 PPG, and 8.7 RPG.

Meanwhile, ANO was a starter at the beginning of the season for Richmond and came off the bench towards the end (Richmond went farther in the NIT then we did) and averaged 23 MPG, 6.6 PPG, 5.1 RPG, and 1.7 BPG.

The thing is, given Young, Artis, Luther and Nix, there is no ways we can get these players anywhere near the minutes they had last year.

So, the obvious idea, is to move Artis to SF (partly or completely) but the problem with that is that was tried last year and did not work, and back at PF Jamel averaged over 20 PPG for a considerable stretch and ended up as our leading scorer. Also, you got Jeter and Jones playing SF already and both have the potential to be significant contributors. So, most likely this is not gonna happen.

If you had just Young, Artis, Maia, Nix and Luther, you could go with a 3 man rotation inside with Young, Artis and Maia and have Nix and Luther as 'backups'. In other words, these two would get minutes in cupcake games but would not see the floor in big games except in case of injury or foul trouble. You could also use Nix on occasion when you wanted some major beef in there, or Luther for some better D. So, IMO that would work.

But, adding ANO makes things... uh... not so simple.

What you could say, is you RS Luther (and that seems to be the way things are going) and now ANO takes Luther's slot... but IMO ANO is a better player (shot blocker) than just a backup.

So, what we can expect now is that minutes inside will be at a premium. Hard to see how JD is gonna get each of them the minutes he would like to play them.

Given the number of minutes Nix can expect.... you might think of RSing him also... but if you do then there goes our only true-sized center.

I think what happened here, with one scholly open and unable to land the high caliber guard in Sterling Gibbs, Dixon just went for the best player available, rather than satisfying a need at guard with a player that probably would not make more impact than... Mike Lecak.

But, given that, he has now gotta manage the rotation and minutes inside and there is gonna be a challenge for sure getting each of them the minutes he would want.

One thing though... is we should be a LOT more solid inside this coming year than we were last year with Uchebo and Randall.

It will just be interesting though to see how many minutes each of them get.

Yeah, I can see something where... ANO ends up spelling Artis (offense/defense) and in games where we got a lead ANO plays more... with the minutes ending up maybe something like 25 and 15.

No?
The correct answer is to be happy we possibly have to many guys inside instead of not enough and to let the coach figure out who plays where and how much.
 
I don't see Wilson taking a RS unless he is totally unprepared. Even with Smith and a healthy Cam, we are still thin at guard. Plus he will be counted on for minutes his sophomore year with Smith and JR's departure and any experience gained next year will help.

I am assuming Newkirk and Johnson are both healthy next season. if Newkirk and Johnson are healthy you have the following availability at guard (I don't see it as particularly thin in this case,)-->

2G--Jones, Smith, Johnson, Newkirk
PG--Robinson, Newkirk, Smith

if those two continue injured, you are correct in the need for Wilson to get some PT. Coaches could of course try and redshirt Wilson and then change their mind if, or when, he becomes needed. If he would be needed it would more likely be at PG vs 2G and we aren't sure he is really suited at PG. Keep in mind that an ordinary redshirt is not something you declare--it just happens organically if a player doesn't get any PT all season.
 
I don't think it would be wise to RS Wilson.... come 2017 he should be either starting or coming off the bench at PG and so we need him to get some experience.

Also, the way things are these days... why RS? The thing is, if you RS then the player graduates before he has used up his eligibility and.... oftentimes will end up playing that last year... somewhere else.

Also.... I thought I read somewhere that Sterling Smith... is a pure SG not a combo guard or a wing player... and thus will be playing all his time at SG. No?
 
I don't think it would be wise to RS Wilson.... come 2017 he should be either starting or coming off the bench at PG and so we need him to get some experience.

Also, the way things are these days... why RS? The thing is, if you RS then the player graduates before he has used up his eligibility and.... oftentimes will end up playing that last year... somewhere else.

Also.... I thought I read somewhere that Sterling Smith... is a pure SG not a combo guard or a wing player... and thus will be playing all his time at SG. No?

Yes, we now run the senior transfer risk but it is probably less for players moving from a power 5 conference school especially if they are a starter. I suppose you could cite Durand Johnson in rebuttal; but, I think he moved on for reasons other than a better basketball or academic opportunity.

i do think S, Smith is primarily a 2G but the Pitt news release indicated he could, or would, play some PG as well. Dixon's quote--

"His size and length will also help us defensively at both guard positions." seems to indicate some time at PG; but, maybe he will only play point on defense?

http://www.pittsburghpanthers.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/042415aaa.html
 
Last year, Rafael Maia was a starter for Brown and averaged 30 MPG, 9.9 PPG, and 8.7 RPG.

Meanwhile, ANO was a starter at the beginning of the season for Richmond and came off the bench towards the end (Richmond went farther in the NIT then we did) and averaged 23 MPG, 6.6 PPG, 5.1 RPG, and 1.7 BPG.

The thing is, given Young, Artis, Luther and Nix, there is no ways we can get these players anywhere near the minutes they had last year.

So, the obvious idea, is to move Artis to SF (partly or completely) but the problem with that is that was tried last year and did not work, and back at PF Jamel averaged over 20 PPG for a considerable stretch and ended up as our leading scorer. Also, you got Jeter and Jones playing SF already and both have the potential to be significant contributors. So, most likely this is not gonna happen.

If you had just Young, Artis, Maia, Nix and Luther, you could go with a 3 man rotation inside with Young, Artis and Maia and have Nix and Luther as 'backups'. In other words, these two would get minutes in cupcake games but would not see the floor in big games except in case of injury or foul trouble. You could also use Nix on occasion when you wanted some major beef in there, or Luther for some better D. So, IMO that would work.

But, adding ANO makes things... uh... not so simple.

What you could say, is you RS Luther (and that seems to be the way things are going) and now ANO takes Luther's slot... but IMO ANO is a better player (shot blocker) than just a backup.

So, what we can expect now is that minutes inside will be at a premium. Hard to see how JD is gonna get each of them the minutes he would like to play them.

Given the number of minutes Nix can expect.... you might think of RSing him also... but if you do then there goes our only true-sized center.

I think what happened here, with one scholly open and unable to land the high caliber guard in Sterling Gibbs, Dixon just went for the best player available, rather than satisfying a need at guard with a player that probably would not make more impact than... Mike Lecak.

But, given that, he has now gotta manage the rotation and minutes inside and there is gonna be a challenge for sure getting each of them the minutes he would want.

One thing though... is we should be a LOT more solid inside this coming year than we were last year with Uchebo and Randall.

It will just be interesting though to see how many minutes each of them get.

Yeah, I can see something where... ANO ends up spelling Artis (offense/defense) and in games where we got a lead ANO plays more... with the minutes ending up maybe something like 25 and 15.

No?

My guess is that Nix redshirts UNLESS he impresses this summer and early fall. You have 2 grad transfers for the 5th spot and Young. In 2016 you would have Nix at the 5, Young and Artis (assuming that they don't blow up) at the 4/3.

Cam and Newkirk will not be ready, likely, at the start of the season, so that has to weigh in a bit.
 
We will have to see if Dixon even considers playing Artis at SF.

He tried it last year and it didn't work, and I thus find it hard to believe he would try the same thing again.

And for those of us that watched the games last year, Artis' game does not fit into SF.

I said it before... as far as the new bigs... Maia replaces Randall, ANO replaces Luther, and Nix replaces Uchebo. Dixon just brought in the best players he could get and will put things together when the time comes.

But, I can't see any way Artis moves to SF other than the ubiquitous 'ya never know'.
 
According to Dixon, via ESPN, Newkirk should be ready to go by the time practice starts in the fall. Might take him a bit to get fully up to speed but, the time should be there.

I don't know about Cam Johnson but I believe he had a shoulder operation (no?) and that SHOULD have been a significant time before Newkirk's operation. Yeah, maybe the 'insiders' know more about this one.
 
My guess is that Nix redshirts UNLESS he impresses this summer and early fall. You have 2 grad transfers for the 5th spot and Young. In 2016 you would have Nix at the 5, Young and Artis (assuming that they don't blow up) at the 4/3.

Cam and Newkirk will not be ready, likely, at the start of the season, so that has to weigh in a bit.

Just my two cents but seems 50/50 whether Nix RSs or not. All depends on how well he is playing. Getting one's weight under control is one thing but then you gotta play D1 ball.

But, would be nice to see Dixon use Nix the way he used Uchebo in the Cuse game in the dome. Worked really well and that IMO is the best way to keep Young from wearing down.
 
Z--you are absolutely correct that whether Nix gets PT will depend on how he looks in practice as regards both skill and stamina.

I also agree that Young needs relief against wearing down. I attribute last seasons 6 game end of season losing streak to Young and others running out of gas due to having worn down over the course of the season. However, unless Nix brings more to the table than Uchebo did; I would rather see Ododa and Maia be the guys who protect Young and our other frontcourt guys from getting worn down. if Nix isn't good enough to earn 20 minutes per game or more in the post, I would rather see him redshirted for development (both in skill and in conditioning) so that he would keep two years of eligibility for when the two grad transfer bigs are gone.

It will be an interesting decision whatever way it plays out for the coaches to make after they have watched practice for a few weeks prior to the season.
 
DCPanther said:

if those two continue injured, you are correct in the need for Wilson to get some PT. Coaches could of course try and redshirt Wilson and then change their mind if, or when, he becomes needed. If he would be needed it would more likely be at PG vs 2G and we aren't sure he is really suited at PG. Keep in mind that an ordinary redshirt is not something you declare--it just happens organically if a player doesn't get any PT all season.[/QUOTE]

Not exacly true DC. The staff has to make an early, conscious decision to keep a healthy redshirt out of any game after the Blue/Gold scrimmages. The old rule, where a kid could play in one or two games and still redshirt made a lot of sense but now, unless there is a season-ending injury, even a few seconds'playing time cancels any possibility of a redshirt. I think the rule should be changed to allow playing in the exhibitions at least.

With Wilson likely to be in the mix as a starter at PG in the '16-17 season, I think he HAS to get a fair number of minutes running the team this season. Newkirk's career here is on thin ice. He played horribly this past season and with the knee injury, he certainly will not be doing much to develop his game this Summer. If Wilson is eligible, unless he shows he isn't ready, I expect him to get the back-up PG minutes ahead of Josh.

I remain somewhat surprised we didn't bring in a 5th year transfer PG. We have bodies who can theoretically line up at guard, but except for Josh, all are more wings than points. We have not used our guards to take advantage of the waterbug quick style some want but the game is evolving in that direction.
 
DCPanther said:

if those two continue injured, you are correct in the need for Wilson to get some PT. Coaches could of course try and redshirt Wilson and then change their mind if, or when, he becomes needed. If he would be needed it would more likely be at PG vs 2G and we aren't sure he is really suited at PG. Keep in mind that an ordinary redshirt is not something you declare--it just happens organically if a player doesn't get any PT all season.

Not exacly true DC. The staff has to make an early, conscious decision to keep a healthy redshirt out of any game after the Blue/Gold scrimmages. The old rule, where a kid could play in one or two games and still redshirt made a lot of sense but now, unless there is a season-ending injury, even a few seconds'playing time cancels any possibility of a redshirt. I think the rule should be changed to allow playing in the exhibitions at least.

With Wilson likely to be in the mix as a starter at PG in the '16-17 season, I think he HAS to get a fair number of minutes running the team this season. Newkirk's career here is on thin ice. He played horribly this past season and with the knee injury, he certainly will not be doing much to develop his game this Summer. If Wilson is eligible, unless he shows he isn't ready, I expect him to get the back-up PG minutes ahead of Josh.

I remain somewhat surprised we didn't bring in a 5th year transfer PG. We have bodies who can theoretically line up at guard, but except for Josh, all are more wings than points. We have not used our guards to take advantage of the waterbug quick style some want but the game is evolving in that direction.[/QUOTE]

Agreed as I noted in the other thread. Even without the injury, Newkirk was so bad last season you can't count on him as a quality starter moving forward. And, yep, Wilson looks to be the PG in 16-17, so you gotta get him those 7 minutes or so backing up JRob this year.

As far as Nix ... The numbers with the two fifth year transfers don't seem to work for him to place much this year, but it is extremely rare to see any program redshirt a JC. The kid just has such a limited ceiling. Maybe a redshirt helps them get class distribution back on track, but if this program is going to get healthy ideally he takes a scholarship for only two seasons.
 
Unless things have changed since LAST year, you can play a player in exhibitions and still RS him with no medical reason. Haughton played in both exhibitions this past season (and was SO bad he didn't get time until after the walk-ons) and was still RSed.

Like so many other things that you remember with great certainty, this is absolutely false. Haughton did not play any minutes at all in either of the two exhibition games.

In the first exhibition game Pitt played 14 players including Phillips-Nwankwo, Ko and Lecak for a combined five minutes. In the second exhibition game Pitt played 11 guys, as none of the three walk-ons got into the game and neither did Haughton. In fact, those two games were the first real sign that Haughton was not going to play all season, because as Harve said, if you play in those exhibition games you are not eligible to redshirt for anything other than medical reasons.

If you don't believe me and your memory is telling you that Haughton did play in those games, go to the Pitt web site and look at the box scores available there.
 
Like so many other things that you remember with great certainty, this is absolutely false. Haughton did not play any minutes at all in either of the two exhibition games.

In the first exhibition game Pitt played 14 players including Phillips-Nwankwo, Ko and Lecak for a combined five minutes. In the second exhibition game Pitt played 11 guys, as none of the three walk-ons got into the game and neither did Haughton. In fact, those two games were the first real sign that Haughton was not going to play all season, because as Harve said, if you play in those exhibition games you are not eligible to redshirt for anything other than medical reasons.

If you don't believe me and your memory is telling you that Haughton did play in those games, go to the Pitt web site and look at the box scores available there.

Haughton DID play in those two games.... but it was a different two games... the two blue/gold scrimmages.

So, looks like the OP was correct in stating that if you play in even the exhibitions, you cannot be RSed except for medical reasons.

But, ya know, Joe, I was gonna make this comment re your comments to others but.... you have a pretty despicable habit of finding some mistake someone makes and trying to apply it to everything they say. You must really love yourself, no?
 
RS candidates unless they really impress - Nix and Luther. Then Newkirk is a possibility if he is not fully healthy by Dec. and Smith and Wilson are impressive.
 
Haughton DID play in those two games.... but it was a different two games... the two blue/gold scrimmages.

So, looks like the OP was correct in stating that if you play in even the exhibitions, you cannot be RSed except for medical reasons.

But, ya know, Joe, I was gonna make this comment re your comments to others but.... you have a pretty despicable habit of finding some mistake someone makes and trying to apply it to everything they say. You must really love yourself, no?

I can certainly understand why someone who is as wrong on the facts as often as you are finds it despicable when someone points out that they got the facts wrong.
 
Anybody remember Anthony Lee? The top grad transfer on the market last year from Temple? Went to Ohio State and barely cracked the rotation -- and Ohio State didn't have a particularly imposing frontcourt.

So, no, I don't think they have too many bigs and I like having some insurance at the grad transfer level.
 
Haughton DID play in those two games.... but it was a different two games... the two blue/gold scrimmages.

So, looks like the OP was correct in stating that if you play in even the exhibitions, you cannot be RSed except for medical reasons.

But, ya know, Joe, I was gonna make this comment re your comments to others but.... you have a pretty despicable habit of finding some mistake someone makes and trying to apply it to everything they say. You must really love yourself, no?
The Blue-Gold scrimmages were NOT exhibitions. So, Joe is right...you were wrong. It's OK to admit that, almost life-affirming. But you'd be pretty tired if you did it consistently.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT