OT: campus rankings

[CrazyPaco]

These are subjective and meaningless of course, but interesting to see Pitt's chronically under rated urban campus getting some love.



What one considers important in a campus is obviously in the eye of the beholder. Pitt may not be large or homogeneous in architecture, or a traditional walled area with abundant green space, but building for building, Pitt stacks up with any school, and obviously no one has anything comparable to the Cathedral of Learning.

BTW, I've been to 34 of the campuses on that list so far.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I was (still am) underwhelmed by Notre Dame. But, it’s certainly subjective, as you say.

Virginia Tech was a campus that I thought was quite nice.

Ohio State, rather grimy, but very energetic. I could have gone there.

Penn State…it’s been a couple decades since I was last there. But … ugh. Not for me.

WVU just evokes chuckles. It kind of reminds me of Kramer (Seinfeld) ‘levels’ idea. But it’s better than PSU.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Ever notice that college campuses are often considered nice places because they are very walkable and have most of the things you need close by? Then people graduate and move to the burbs, have much less walkability and often need to drive somewhat far for anything. Then they go on vacation and choose a place with great walkability and where most things you need are close by. (The beach, Disney, Europe, etc.).

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Ever notice that college campuses are often considered nice places because they are very walkable and have most of the things you need close by? Then people graduate and move to the burbs, have much less walkability and often need to drive somewhat far for anything. Then they go on vacation and choose a place with great walkability and where most things you need are close by. (The beach, Disney, Europe, etc.).

you think people vacation at the beach or abroad because they can walk and "Get things" or because there is a beach there or the weather is nice?

people move to the suburbs because they spent the last 4 years in college living in cramped apartments with roommates and dont want to live like a teenager now that they can afford not too..

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Ever notice that college campuses are often considered nice places because they are very walkable and have most of the things you need close by? Then people graduate and move to the burbs, have much less walkability and often need to drive somewhat far for anything. Then they go on vacation and choose a place with great walkability and where most things you need are close by. (The beach, Disney, Europe, etc.).

Many of them aren’t tremendously walkable especially if older. Pitt in particular, you had to be mighty fit to hoof up to Alumni Hall (as it was known then) from your SOD dump for your first class, then all the way down to the Frick Arts building for a class that started ten minutes after. Then up to the Music Building or LIS building later in the day (I had a couple terms that met all these situations at the same time). Plus if you had a class in Posvar (formerly Forbes Quad) it really mattered where you entered the building, you might be trekking half a mile if the class was at the opposite end of the complex. Or up up up there Cathedral stairs when the elevators were an infeasible option (well too often). So Urban campus doesn’t necessarily mean easy and convenient. But I was never in better shape as I was in those years!

But I agree with your observation of where most people live vs where they vacation. It often does with that way. Of course the beach or whatever other attraction is the true reason to go but part of the charm is being able to walk to the touristy shops and restaurants and such. But for most it ultimately it is still good to get home to a relatively safe, clean, suburban home base.

And I’ll counter that it certainly seems to enthrall City dwellers to get out to mountain climb and camp and get remote lake cabins with nothing around them. Then they seem to happily go back to their gritty crowded city dwelling when they finish. So it goes both ways.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

i always think it would have been cool to live in a little town (outside of the city of course) that had a true little main street that you could walk too. I see a lot of towns like this in ohio, where there is a main street or town square, your pubs, stores, restaurants, the obligatory antique store that no one every buys anything from..

obviously pittsburgh wont have many of these due mainly due to it not being relatively flat.. but somewhere you could just walk too at night to grab a bite to eat, a drink or even go to a store for something..

 

[CrazyPaco]

Many of them aren’t tremendously walkable especially if older. Pitt in particular, you had to be mighty fit to hoof up to Alumni Hall (as it was known then) from your SOD dump for your first class, then all the way down to the Frick Arts building for a class that started ten minutes after. Then up to the Music Building or LIS building later in the day (I had a couple terms that met all these situations at the same time). Plus if you had a class in Posvar (formerly Forbes Quad) it really mattered where you entered the building, you might be trekking half a mile if the class was at the opposite end of the complex. Or up up up there Cathedral stairs when the elevators were an infeasible option (well too often). So Urban campus doesn’t necessarily mean easy and convenient. But I was never in better shape as I was in those years!

But I agree with your observation of where most people live vs where they vacation. It often does with that way. Of course the beach or whatever other attraction is the true reason to go but part of the charm is being able to walk to the touristy shops and restaurants and such. But for most it ultimately it is still good to get home to a relatively safe, clean, suburban home base.

And I’ll counter that it certainly seems to enthrall City dwellers to get out to mountain climb and camp and get remote lake cabins with nothing around them. Then they seem to happily go back to their gritty crowded city dwelling when they finish. So it goes both ways.

Pitt is EXTREMELY walkable compared to most campuses. Music Building or Frick Fine Arts to Trees Hall = 0.9 mile walk for either route per Google maps. Pretty much the furthest you are ever away from anything else on campus is no more than a mile. Good luck finding that on any other campus in the chart above. Now you can take an escalator up the Pete, and that will be coming to the new student rec center too (although one could have elevatored up to the roof of the former O'Hara St parking garage if desired...or for the old Alumni (now Eberly) Hall, take the elevator up Chevron and you are right there). I never understood who used campus shuttles. I think I used them less than 10 times the 9 years I lived around campus and for three of those years I was going to the Field House every day and living mostly deep in South Oakland.

But I've never lived in the suburbs so I do walk or take public transport as much as possible to things in the cities that I've lived in (although that was nearly impossible in Miami).

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Pitt is EXTREMELY walkable compared to most campuses. Music Building or Frick Fine Arts to Trees Hall = 0.9 mile walk for either route per Google maps. Pretty much the furthest you are ever away from anything else on campus is no more than a mile. Good luck finding that on any other campus in the chart above. Now you can take an escalator up the Pete, and that will be coming to the new student rec center too (although one could have elevatored up to the roof of the former O'Hara St parking garage if desired...or for the old Alumni (now Eberly) Hall, take the elevator up Chevron and you are right there). I never understood who used campus shuttles. I think I used them less than 10 times the 9 years I lived around campus and for three of those years I was going to the Field House every day and living mostly deep in South Oakland.

But I've never lived in the suburbs so I do walk or take public transport as much as possible to things in the cities that I've lived in (although that was nearly impossible in Miami).

Yeah I knew a lot of those tricks as well. The ‘secret’ tunnel(s) and elevator between Alumni and Chevron was right out of Get Smart. A rite of passage (literally and figuratively) when one found out about those.

I wasn’t complaining, I (mostly) loved the urban experience (we did get robbed a couple times), and I happily did all that walking (my eventual bride I met as a senior lived well up in North Oakland while I lived off Bates and McKee, so I was in especially good shape making that frequent journey). I was glad to avoid the shuttles, which only started up (as i recall) around my junior year and not very reliable. I especially preferred the peculiar odors of the city over the rather old cheese and manure stench that emanates from the rural campuses.

I was just noting that Pitt isn’t like some relatively close urban campuses (like all the schools around Pitt, except perhaps CMU), where everything is concentrated in a couple buildings. Couldn’t imagine going to Carlow, for example. My high school campus was more expansive than that place.

 

[Upg bobcat]

I was (still am) underwhelmed by Notre Dame. But, it’s certainly subjective, as you say.

I agree with you on ND. I also see that we are two spots behind Syracuse. I haven't been there in years, but I was not particularly impressed.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I agree with you on ND. I also see that we are two spots behind Syracuse. I haven't been there in years, but I was not particularly impressed.

Not been, mostly due to reputation that it is a fairly negative experience for the most part. And especially in the late fall / winter time. Probably a not-thoroughly accurate stereotype, and many likely would say the same thing for us too. But ultimately it comes down to what you like. I had a really good experience multiple times at Ohio State, others likely hate it…

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

went to the Palko "Im so f'in proud of these guys" game and really liked the ND campus. the pre-game atmosphere was very weak to be honest, i was expecting a lot more as far as a pre-game party atmosphere and it was a huge let down but the campus itself was really nice..

you want a tailgate party college football atmosphere, dont go to an ND game.. stick with ohio state or any sec venue..

 

[HailtoPitt]

you think people vacation at the beach or abroad because they can walk and "Get things" or because there is a beach there or the weather is nice?

people move to the suburbs because they spent the last 4 years in college living in cramped apartments with roommates and dont want to live like a teenager now that they can afford not too..

Yes. Popular beach destinations tend to have most stuff you need nearby. I mean, if you knew you had to get in the car and drive miles every time you left your room, would you go to that beach destination? Heck, that's pretty much a cruise.

Many college towns aren't limited to cramped dorms. Lots have nice towns and people choose to live there, and often they are walkable.

I'm just saying, it's strange that we had this shift over a period of decades, away from the very things people seem to like about colleges and many vacations destinations.

 

[HailtoPitt]

i always think it would have been cool to live in a little town (outside of the city of course) that had a true little main street that you could walk too. I see a lot of towns like this in ohio, where there is a main street or town square, your pubs, stores, restaurants, the obligatory antique store that no one every buys anything from..

obviously pittsburgh wont have many of these due mainly due to it not being relatively flat.. but somewhere you could just walk too at night to grab a bite to eat, a drink or even go to a store for something..

I feel like we have the bones of those places all around, it's just that people left them.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Yes. Popular beach destinations tend to have most stuff you need nearby. I mean, if you knew you had to get in the car and drive miles every time you left your room, would you go to that beach destination? Heck, that's pretty much a cruise.

Many college towns aren't limited to cramped dorms. Lots have nice towns and people choose to live there, and often they are walkable.

I'm just saying, it's strange that we had this shift over a period of decades, away from the very things people seem to like about colleges and many vacations destinations.

if i go on vacation, when i go on vacation, i absolutely want to park my car and not get in it until i leave. i agree with this.

Your typical college towns, in the middle of nowhere, have that little down town, main street, square area that i am talking about. i think i'd like to live in that area, minus the college kids of course polluting up the place every weekend of course.. So basically i want to live in a college town, without the college.

 

[HailtoPitt]

if i go on vacation, when i go on vacation, i absolutely want to park my car and not get in it until i leave. i agree with this.

Your typical college towns, in the middle of nowhere, have that little down town, main street, square area that i am talking about. i think i'd like to live in that area, minus the college kids of course polluting up the place every weekend of course.. So basically i want to live in a college town, without the college.

LOL. I agree 100%. Give me a nice college town... without the college kids! I used to live in a smaller PA town. It was nice, but it struggled. Just too many options for people to not live there.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

went to the Palko "Im so f'in proud of these guys" game and really liked the ND campus. the pre-game atmosphere was very weak to be honest, i was expecting a lot more as far as a pre-game party atmosphere and it was a huge let down but the campus itself was really nice..

you want a tailgate party college football atmosphere, dont go to an ND game.. stick with ohio state or any sec venue..

I do want exactly that, which is why I enjoyed a Ohio State (and VT). And lament that Pitt football isn’t that way.

 

[S.R.M.]

I feel like we have the bones of those places all around, it's just that people left them.

There are still a lot of great small towns around like this in the Pittsburgh area. Sewickley, Oakmont,
Beaver, Zelienople are four nicer ones that come to mind immediately. Also a lot of decent grittier old towns that are making real comebacks. Etna, Millvale, Sharpsburg, Bellevue, Ambridge are all getting hipster trendy breweries and other shops, bars and restaurants to complement the old school places that made it through the deindustrialization

 

[HailToPitt725]

I’m shocked that Mizzou’s campus was ranked that highly. I visited it for a basketball game against Kentucky in December and, although the columns and lawn were nice, I didn’t find it particularly special. Pitt’s campus was much nicer with much more diverse architecture and scenery (OK, I’m bias).

Also, how is Colorado’s campus only 25th?

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

I can't believe Syracuse isn't ranked in the bottom 3

 

[PITT 76]

I always thought the Pitt campus was underrated, and I went there when Schenley Plaza was still a parking lot.

The Cathedral is, of course, beyond compare, and the numerous bars and places to eat were a plus. I just always liked how the campus had a combo city/campus feel about it. I liked going to the Carnegie Museum when I had some free time.

Pitt is a special place, and it's due time it received some recognition for its campus.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I always thought the Pitt campus was underrated, and I went there when Schenley Plaza was still a parking lot.

The Cathedral is, of course, beyond compare, and the numerous bars and places to eat were a plus. I just always liked how the campus had a combo city/campus feel about it. I liked going to the Carnegie Museum when I had some free time.

Pitt is a special place, and it's due time it received some recognition for its campus.

The Cathedral, inside and out, has no peer, and not just because of its height and mass. Some buildings look great on the outside, but are boring in the inside, and vice versa. Not so for Cathy....er Cathedral...whichever generation you are from. It impresses and surprises inside and out.

The other thing is some "main" buildings...the nicest ones or most historic ones... are often just filled with administration offices and students hardly every go inside of them. They aren't truly functional to life on the campus; more of just a historical memento to place on a post card. Also not true of the Cathedral...er Cathy. It is the true heart of Pitt academically, administratively, socially, and culturally.

Its exterior and exterior aesthetics, imposing scale, and functional integration into the university's daily life is unsurpassed.

It has no peer.

I've long said, if it belonged to Harvard, or Yale, or Oxford, it would be one of the most famous buildings in the world.

If you compare the top buildings at any university, side by side to Pitt's top buildings, I don't know many, if any, that come out on top. Even if you mulligan for the Cathedral, which is almost an unfair starting point, Pitt holds up pretty favorably with Heinz Chapel, Stephen Foster, Frick Fine Arts, William Pitt Union, Alumni Hall, University Club, Schenley Quad, O'Hara Street Student Center, Allen Hall, Bellefield Hall, Music Building...

 

[HailtoPitt]

The Cathedral, inside and out, has no peer, and not just because of its height and mass. Some buildings look great on the outside, but are boring in the inside, and vice versa. Not so for Cathy....er Cathedral...whichever generation you are from. It impresses and surprises inside and out.

The other thing is some "main" buildings...the nicest ones or most historic ones... are often just filled with administration offices and students hardly every go inside of them. They aren't truly functional to life on the campus; more of just a historical memento to place on a post card. Also not true of the Cathedral...er Cathy. It is the true heart of Pitt academically, administratively, socially, and culturally.

Its exterior and exterior aesthetics, imposing scale, and functional integration into the university's daily life is unsurpassed.

It has no peer.

I've long said, if it belonged to Harvard, or Yale, or Oxford, it would be one of the most famous buildings in the world.

If you compare the top buildings at any university, side by side to Pitt's top buildings, I don't know many, if any, that come out on top. Even if you mulligan for the Cathedral, which is almost an unfair starting point, Pitt holds up pretty favorably with Heinz Chapel, Stephen Foster, Frick Fine Arts, William Pitt Union, Alumni Hall, University Club, Schenley Quad, O'Hara Street Student Center, Allen Hall, Bellefield Hall, Music Building...

Pitt needs to make a better effort to 'brand' the Cathedral. They should make it the center point of a longer term advertising campaign. Start with the Pitt commercial they air during college football season. The commercial will be a mini story as told from the perspective of the CoL. The Cathedral will have the voice of Morgan Freeman (or Kate Mulgrew) as the commercial begins with an ariel shot with the voice saying "In my nearly 100 years, I've seen so much happen here at Pitt....* (Shots or stuff around campus over time).

"I've seen Pitt doctors cure the world of Polio..."
(Pics of Jonus Salk and children lining up for the vaccine)

"I've seen Greatest victories..."
(Shot of Tony Dorset running wild. Shot of Maz rounding the bases. Shot of Jerome Lane breaking the blackboard"

I've seen the Agony of Defeat..."
(Shot of YA Tittle in the famous pic at Pitt Stadium)

"I've seen.... (Followed by more accomplishments/discoveries/etc.

The important thing is to certify that the CoL has been there for so much, even as everything else changed. And that it will remain.

 

[cashisking884]

Ever notice that college campuses are often considered nice places because they are very walkable and have most of the things you need close by? Then people graduate and move to the burbs, have much less walkability and often need to drive somewhat far for anything. Then they go on vacation and choose a place with great walkability and where most things you need are close by. (The beach, Disney, Europe, etc.).

You can’t get sh*t in Europe.

Everything is maybe walkable. But you have to walk to like 10 different stores to equal one Walmart assortment.

And then even then good luck.

 

[cashisking884]

Yes. Popular beach destinations tend to have most stuff you need nearby. I mean, if you knew you had to get in the car and drive miles every time you left your room, would you go to that beach destination? Heck, that's pretty much a cruise.

They have what you need for the vacation.

But they don’t necessarily have what you need for your life.

Pensacola Beach is like a southern redneck destination spot. Arguably the most popular spot.

And you can get by not leaving the beach if you’re on vacation. But you better have a car and get ready to cross that bridge almost every single day if you’re living there. Because it’s not set up to be your “home” for most people.

 

[HailtoPitt]

They have what you need for the vacation.

But they don’t necessarily have what you need for your life.

Pensacola Beach is like a southern redneck destination spot. Arguably the most popular spot.

And you can get by not leaving the beach if you’re on vacation. But you better have a car and get ready to cross that bridge almost every single day if you’re living there. Because it’s not set up to be your “home” for most people.

It's often set up to have the things you need without having to get in your car. It wouldn't make sense my have a Home Depot where there is land more valuable for vacation housing.

My main point is that why do we choose to live somewhere car dependent, but then go on vacation to the beach or a on cruise or to Disney, which will often have everything we need without requiring us to get into a car?

 

[Burgh15]

I’m shocked that Mizzou’s campus was ranked that highly. I visited it for a basketball game against Kentucky in December and, although the columns and lawn were nice, I didn’t find it particularly special. Pitt’s campus was much nicer with much more diverse architecture and scenery (OK, I’m bias).

Also, how is Colorado’s campus only 25th?

Boulder is a great town, but the one thing I didn't like about the campus is every building looked exactly the same.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Boulder is a great town, but the one thing I didn't like about the campus is every building looked exactly the same.

That’s a good point. There’s definitely not a ton of variety there.

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

The Cathedral, inside and out, has no peer, and not just because of its height and mass. Some buildings look great on the outside, but are boring in the inside, and vice versa. Not so for Cathy....er Cathedral...whichever generation you are from. It impresses and surprises inside and out.

The other thing is some "main" buildings...the nicest ones or most historic ones... are often just filled with administration offices and students hardly every go inside of them. They aren't truly functional to life on the campus; more of just a historical memento to place on a post card. Also not true of the Cathedral...er Cathy. It is the true heart of Pitt academically, administratively, socially, and culturally.

Its exterior and exterior aesthetics, imposing scale, and functional integration into the university's daily life is unsurpassed.

It has no peer.

I've long said, if it belonged to Harvard, or Yale, or Oxford, it would be one of the most famous buildings in the world.

If you compare the top buildings at any university, side by side to Pitt's top buildings, I don't know many, if any, that come out on top. Even if you mulligan for the Cathedral, which is almost an unfair starting point, Pitt holds up pretty favorably with Heinz Chapel, Stephen Foster, Frick Fine Arts, William Pitt Union, Alumni Hall, University Club, Schenley Quad, O'Hara Street Student Center, Allen Hall, Bellefield Hall, Music Building...

You are spot on, but Cathy is a silly nickname.

 

[FireballZ]

You are spot on, but Cathy is a silly nickname.

I'm sure there is a reason for it, but it's super cringe, regardless. Why not Col or Colleen, if you're going with a goofy, female name?

 

[cashisking884]

It's often set up to have the things you need without having to get in your car. It wouldn't make sense my have a Home Depot where there is land more valuable for vacation housing.

My main point is that why do we choose to live somewhere car dependent, but then go on vacation to the beach or a on cruise or to Disney, which will often have everything we need without requiring us to get into a car?

Because we’re frequently going on vacation to get away from the things for which we need Home Depot.

but it’s not realistic or desirable for most to not live within the vicinity of a Home Depot or Lowes or whatever, as a matter of everyday life.

I enjoyed visiting Venice. I do not want to live in Venice. It’s comfortable and convenient just enough for a vacation. It’s not as a matter of everyday life, even though you can walk from one end of the city to the other relatively quickly.

 

[Dan1911]

i always think it would have been cool to live in a little town (outside of the city of course) that had a true little main street that you could walk too. I see a lot of towns like this in ohio, where there is a main street or town square, your pubs, stores, restaurants, the obligatory antique store that no one every buys anything from..

obviously pittsburgh wont have many of these due mainly due to it not being relatively flat.. but somewhere you could just walk too at night to grab a bite to eat, a drink or even go to a store for something..

Clairton? Duquesne?

 

[HailtoPitt]

Because we’re frequently going on vacation to get away from the things for which we need Home Depot.

but it’s not realistic or desirable for most to not live within the vicinity of a Home Depot or Lowes or whatever, as a matter of everyday life.

I enjoyed visiting Venice. I do not want to live in Venice. It’s comfortable and convenient just enough for a vacation. It’s not as a matter of everyday life, even though you can walk from one end of the city to the other relatively quickly.

Ok, so why do you enjoy visint Venice or a place like it, but not want to live there?

 

[cashisking884]

Ok, so why do you enjoy visint Venice or a place like it, but not want to live there?

Because my everyday life needs to include things that my vacation life doesn’t.

The fact that Venice doesn’t have anything I would call a grocery store, is okay. Vacation me isn’t really doing a ton of cooking.

Real life me likes having a bunch of different kinds of grocery stores within 5 miles of my house.

 

[TD_6082]

Just me, but strictly going P5, I think Stanford blows the rest away.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Because my everyday life needs to include things that my vacation life doesn’t.

The fact that Venice doesn’t have anything I would call a grocery store, is okay. Vacation me isn’t really doing a ton of cooking.

Real life me likes having a bunch of different kinds of grocery stores within 5 miles of my house.

So you need to be able to buy groceries? Why can't you do that in Venice? I've never been there so I'm curious.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Clairton? Duquesne?

lol, no..

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Yes. Popular beach destinations tend to have most stuff you need nearby. I mean, if you knew you had to get in the car and drive miles every time you left your room, would you go to that beach destination? Heck, that's pretty much a cruise.

Many college towns aren't limited to cramped dorms. Lots have nice towns and people choose to live there, and often they are walkable.

I'm just saying, it's strange that we had this shift over a period of decades, away from the very things people seem to like about colleges and many vacations destinations.

The beach destination my wife and I go to pretty much every other year is one where you have to drive miles to get to any kind of shopping or restaurants. That's part of the charm and beauty of it for us. I like the idea of an uncrowded, wide beach where I can walk and walk and never run into anyone. It's not cheap, but for us it's well worth it just to get away from it all.

But that's just us and personal preference. Lots of people go to beaches like Myrtle or Virginia Beach and that's their preference. But lots of people there is not what we want, so we avoid them.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

There are still a lot of great small towns around like this in the Pittsburgh area. Sewickley, Oakmont,
Beaver, Zelienople are four nicer ones that come to mind immediately. Also a lot of decent grittier old towns that are making real comebacks. Etna, Millvale, Sharpsburg, Bellevue, Ambridge are all getting hipster trendy breweries and other shops, bars and restaurants to complement the old school places that made it through the deindustrialization

I was thinking Sewickley as well. Nice little, walkable town, restaurants, bars, shopping, a nice place to just enjoy an afternoon.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

lol, no..

I once was at work, very early in my career, and a co worker alerted me in passing that we had hired a new guy who started that day. He told me he didn’t know much about the guy but that the guy was “From Duquesne”. I (foolishly it turned out) just assumed that this meant the PLACE he was from. I was fairly young and I didn’t exactly come from Mayberry myself, so I certainly didn’t formulate a judgment by it.

So I met the new guy later, and you always like to say something for the sake of conversation, so I blurted out, “I heard you grew up in Duquesne?” Man, this guy got visibly irritated and a little too vehemently, he corrected me that no, he WENT to Duquesne. I’ll admit I reacted poorly, stammering something like, oh, sorry, nice to meet you, and beating a hasty retreat.

Thankfully we didn’t cross paths often after that because anytime we did, I could tell I had been sh1t-listed by that guy. Fortunately he left the company not soon after (and I never had to work for him).

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I was thinking Sewickley as well. Nice little, walkable town, restaurants, bars, shopping, a nice place to just enjoy an afternoon.

Sewickley is such an archetype of Americana (either the best or the worst kind, based on individual political perspective) that sections of it were filmed by the Hallmark channel and used as stock footage in many of their TV movies.