i ran the Cleveland marathon today. I saw that a person collapsed near finish line during half marathon. Why do people always die doing half not full. The Pittsburgh half had a few over the years. I’m thinking the lesser condition and novice runners run the half. It’s always near the finish
OT: Cleveland Marathon runner dies
- Thread starter Macchiato
- Start date
I don't know the answer and that's a good question. I was there right in front the place where she collapsed and her family was right next to me on the sidelines. My son ran the full and said the conditions were horrendous and way too hot for running. He backed off his normal pace because he wanted to finish and be alive when he did. Her collapsing like that was a horrible thing to see. Her family and the paramedics were all in tears and beside themselves.
She was 0.1 miles from the finish and she was turning blue and her legs seemed to be going out from under her. When she collapsed, people rushed to her but the EMS was very slow in response. When they finally arrived, they gave her some shocks with the AED and that didn't work. Then they used an automatic chest compression machine on her to try and keep her alive. When they put her in the ambulance, she was gray and motionless. She was only in her 20's. They didnb't get there soon enough. I don't know if getting there sooner would have helped, but maybe it would have.
I think it was a combination of what you said that people who run the half normally don't train as they should, as you said, and the fact that it was so terribly hot and young people are normally the ones who die from first heart attacks. I run the Pittsburgh half and I've had various tests done for heart health and I also train a lot and adhere to a schedule of training. I think many who run 10K's, 10 milers and half marathons just aren't ready or haven't trained the necessary amount to do those distances.
My sincere thoughts and prayers are with her family and friends.
She was 0.1 miles from the finish and she was turning blue and her legs seemed to be going out from under her. When she collapsed, people rushed to her but the EMS was very slow in response. When they finally arrived, they gave her some shocks with the AED and that didn't work. Then they used an automatic chest compression machine on her to try and keep her alive. When they put her in the ambulance, she was gray and motionless. She was only in her 20's. They didnb't get there soon enough. I don't know if getting there sooner would have helped, but maybe it would have.
I think it was a combination of what you said that people who run the half normally don't train as they should, as you said, and the fact that it was so terribly hot and young people are normally the ones who die from first heart attacks. I run the Pittsburgh half and I've had various tests done for heart health and I also train a lot and adhere to a schedule of training. I think many who run 10K's, 10 milers and half marathons just aren't ready or haven't trained the necessary amount to do those distances.
My sincere thoughts and prayers are with her family and friends.
I looked up her profile. Soccer player. She was a young fit woman. I can’t imagine what her parents are going through right now. I also backed off due to heat. I run an 8 min mile and slowed it to 8:45ish. I can usually tell it will be rough if I’m pounding more than a cup a water at the hydration stations.
Last edited:
The other thing I was thinking of was that she was dehydrated and it forced her heart to collapse. The conditions of the race today would cause even the best runners to dehydrate if they don't get enough fluids.
She was 22.
She was 22.
You were smart. My son did the same thing. He was running a 5:30/mile pace in the full and backed off at about mile 20. When he came in, he looked and felt good, but he was hot. He finished in the top 30 in the full, but he didn't care. As long as he finished and is alive. This really puts things in perspective.
I'll never forget that scene today. I'm glad you finished and are OK.
Last edited:
IMO the increase I deaths during sporting events is due to performance enhancers and high energy caffeine loaded drinks that people take prior to and during a competition to give them an edge.
If you use these enhancers you have to drink water. If running you should have a wrist attached water supply and take water at every water station which sometimes doesn't work out if you miss one or drop the water. If biking you need two full water bottles at the start and stop at an aide or replenishment station during a long ride if you don't feel well.
I bet many runners down a Red Bull / 5 hr Energy equivalent prior to running.
The danger in taking these supplements/enhancers is magnified in hot weather.
Mrs Buffett and I bike race she rides in the Womens Open category, and I ride in the Men's Senior group.
In 50, 75, or 100 milers both of us have noticed people chugging Red Bull /5 hr Energy equivalents prior to the start of a bike race and during the race.
Most performance enhancers accelerate the dehydration process making heat exhaustion and its results more dangerous.
Water is the great equalizer but some ignore it and go with high energy loaders drinks they carry with them.
Or it could just be bad luck, a unknown health issue, and a really bad day for everyone!
Last edited:
I usually avg 3:30-4:00 a marathon and I drink a cup of water every station. When I run ultras I eat full meals
It takes two weeks to acclimate to heat. We live in an air conditioned world. It’s tough to get acclimated early summer. Poor acclimation coupled with caffeine and poor hydration can be a disaster
Sadly, I see this stuff for a living. It’s never easy when a young person comes through the doors.
Sadly, I see this stuff for a living. It’s never easy when a young person comes through the doors.
Last edited:
That's a good pace. My son tries to keep under 3:00 if he can. Today wasn't one of those days. He was also drinking and dumping water on himself at every fluid station.
Often overlooked is the timing of most training runs.. most train after work during the week and a longer run Saturday or Sunday.. the body like regularity.
I’m bringing the heat to The Akron and Philly Marathons. I’m not there yet. I liked my time at pgh but backed off today. I ran an 8:15 per mile at Pittsburgh. I was going to run 8 at Cleveland but didn’t have it so I slowed down and garmin says I was between 8:30 and 8:45. I want to take Akron and philly at 7:45 per mile which would bring me in around 3hrs and 23 min. I need to drop 10-15 pounds to make it happen
85 degrees is a stupid condition to run a marathon of mostly amateur runners. It ain't that important folks. You aren't winning a gold medal.
He's already qualified for Boston. I asked him about his pace and he said it was closer to a 6:00/mile pace for most of the day today. Then he backed off to closer to a 7:30/mile pace for the last 6 or 7 miles because of the heat and because he wanted to feel good and relaxed when he finished. He didn't need to prove anything. But I've seen him run a 5:30/mile. It's crazy.
I think he's now just going to wait for Boston and be done for a while. He's done enough marathons for a while.
It was horrible conditions for a marathon, for the runners at least. And that's all that matters. The ridiculous thing is that the people who were running the marathon were calling conditions "medium", not "extreme". They're nuts.
How hot was it at 7 or 8AM when it started though? No way it was 85 but anything more than 70 for a marathon is too hot
5:30 pace is FAST !!
The average Joe can't run a quarter mile at that pace. For an appreciation, I would suggest going to the local high school and try 90 second quarters(6 minute)..
I dunno...I know here in Pittsburgh yesterday AM it was already well into the 70's
I can’t even get my mind around that to be honest. When I have a little energy left on the treadmill workout, I put it on 9 to finish myself off (that sounds weird) and do that for 2-3 minutes and that’s a flat out sprint. I think that’s around 6:40 pace.
I do that and I feel like Drago in rocky 4 training scene. Bunch of scientists in white coats holding clipboards, nodding approvingly at me. To do better than that for miles upon miles is insane.
How can EMS be slow to respond at a huge event like that? Wouldn't they be parked right by the finish line? And also a couple along the route just in case? If not, POOR planning IMHO.
yeah, I was thinking that. if there is ever an event where EMT should be ready to go, know exactly what the issue is and be in the correct location, prepared, it's at the end of a race at a marathon..
In no other circumstance is there more of a warning to a potential medical emergency than at a finish line of a marathon.. They literally know what the problem is and where it will happen, before it happens..
Like I said, his pace is closer to a 6:00/mile pace. He can keep that pace up consistently throughout the race, except yesterday. He was able to do that pace in Chicago in October. But he's been doing marathons for over 10 years now and trains for each one for 16 weeks. He puts on over 100 miles a week while training.
Top marathoners can maintain 5:00/mile or 5:10/mile. Just gives you an understanding of the speed and conditioning of these guys and girls.
Last edited:
You'd have to be there to see what a clusterf%^$ it was. The ambulance was turned around and was having a difficult time getting out onto the course from a side street. The finish shoot was narrow with little room for movement of a large ambulance. And I don't know why, but EMT's didn't get there for what seemed like a few minutes. People on the course and other runners were trying to help long before the EMT's arrived. It seemed like a very slow response. But to be honest, I don't think anything would have helped that poor girl. She was gone before she hit the ground, that's how bad it was.
This marathon was very poorly run and planned. Pittsburgh is so much better run with more runners. Cleveland only had 15,000 runners and most were 10K and halfs. This girl was running the half marathon. I know my son won't do it again. He wanted me to do it but I just got done running the Pittsburgh Marathon and I just wanted to be a spectator and enjoy it. Instead, I am still not getting what I saw out of my mind and it is very upsetting and will be for a long time. I've never seen that happen before right in front of me.
I pray for her family and friends and for the young lady who passed away.
There was a lot more going on around the finish line with medical emergencies than just what happened with this young lady. A lot of dehydration, leg injuries (one guy blew out his knee while running), and sirens were blaring every 5 minutes. Golf carts with EMT's were running everywhere and just couldn't keep up with everything. Considering the awful weather conditions for running, the Cleveland Marathon people were very unprepared and ill-equipped for this.
I can get my arms around the appreciation for speed... I did clock a 4:21 mile at the Feildhouse.
Do these people have EMT's on alert when they train? I mean when I go out for a run, even a hard run or a speed workout, I am by myself in remote areas, or on the local school track, etc. If the event is this dangerous don't hold them.
You do understand the difference, right? One is you going out and doing something on your own. The other is a planned event sponsored by a city. They are OBLIGATED to provide support. If not, why shut down roads? Why have water stations? Should be a free for all, right?
Yes, I do. Sudden cardiac arrest in running events has occurred for decades so far as I know, sadly there will always be risk and probably never enough resources to save or satisfy everyone.
All events have support, some less than others, but when you do things you take risks.
Every runner knows the risks.
Your race form lets you know this is a risky event and you sign it or not!
You can ask what support is available and decide to participate or not that's another option!
Noone is forcing people to enter these events.
I always asked what support is out there when I do an organized bike race. Sometimes its one EMT team sometimes its more, sometimes its one rest stop sometimes its more. If its 100 miles I'm concerned about support/EMT's if it's 26 miles I could care less.
You can't have enough emergency people to be everywhere at once.
If that was the case they'd cancel all events like this.
I participated in a 26 mile bike and a half mile swim.
The swim was first.
I asked an official in a kayak how many emergency people are out in the bay? He said four kayaks and there were like 1k swimmers.
I said how do you know if everyone who starts finishes and exits the water? He said we count the number who started and count the finishers and if we're short we start looking ( 45 mins later).
I did the swim but the chances of them finding a person in time to rescue them or revive them was slim and none.
The kayaks were more of a "recovery " operation if needed.
Life is a risk isn't it!
Last edited:
I get that totally. But there’s a huge difference between the risk of lack of support when you head out on your own vs. an organized event.
there was adequate medical support for the race. I think I’m qualified to say that since
1. I ran the race
2. I provided the medical response at other races
When a young person dies from sudden cardiac event then a congenital issue has to be ruled out. Maybe she had an electrolyte imbalance. There are even studies showing water intoxication causing hyponatremia that can lead to sudden death in young females.
It takes two weeks to acclimate to heat. It’s hard to acclimate early summer when we do not run in heat and live in an air conditioned world.
Runners need educated but in the end it is up to the runner to take the time to prepare themselves for an event. The Cleveland marathon event was staffed adequately
1. I ran the race
2. I provided the medical response at other races
When a young person dies from sudden cardiac event then a congenital issue has to be ruled out. Maybe she had an electrolyte imbalance. There are even studies showing water intoxication causing hyponatremia that can lead to sudden death in young females.
It takes two weeks to acclimate to heat. It’s hard to acclimate early summer when we do not run in heat and live in an air conditioned world.
Runners need educated but in the end it is up to the runner to take the time to prepare themselves for an event. The Cleveland marathon event was staffed adequately
Yeah, I'm not getting the criticism. It's not like a coach is threatening them to run (like at Maryland). You have to know when to make the call.
When I ran alot I joined a high end running club which included a ton of really good runners Mercer Bucks Running Club in Western NJ and Eastern PA.
In addition to the benefit of training other benefits included the learning, and advise you would get from other runners.
Agreed, and to boot some are assuming that the cause was due to lack of training leading to the problem, without knowing any facts.
My first hundred miler took me 21 hours. In those 21 hours I ate nearly a full pizza, grilled chicken, veggie burger, full bunch of grapes, a cantaloupe, bag of veggie chips, about 15 gels, 4 Lara bars, 10 Oreos, more than 2 gallons of water, 4-6 bottles of tailwind, and a few cups of coke. That’s what I can recall.
