OT: Dodgers

[mike412]

When you consider what a mess the Dodgers were when Frank McCourt owned the team, it is amazing what they have been able to do in the last few years under new management.

When McCourt sold the team, the new owners tried to make an immediate splash by spending big on free agents. Nomar Garciaparra and Adrian Gonzalez were just two examples.

But, their core change was rebuilding the farm system and developing their own talent. And, their drafting/acquisitions of minor league players has been second to none: Cody Bellinger, Max Muncey, Corey Seager, Joc Pederson, Chris Taylor, Austin Barnes all have come up through their system. Compare that to the Pirates, where Josh Bell is the only established position player they drafted. The Dodgers have used signings from the Caribbean and Far East to supplement their drafting. The Pirates have tried to use them to compensate for their mediocre at best drafting.

Yes, the Dodgers are a big market club. But, who are their big free agent acquisitions? Russell Martin, David Freese and Justin Taylor. Hardly the high priced gems of the free agent market.

To me, their one potential weakness is pitching. They consciously have avoided utilizing a large percentage of their top ten draft choices on pitchers. The reason is simple: Pitchers have the lowest percentage of success among all drafted players. Especially high school pitchers. The Dodgers are playing the percentages. The Pirates, by contrast, have wasted a large percentage of their top ten draft choices on high school pitchers who have disappeared into the minor league vortex of failed arms.

The Dodgers did draft Walker Buehler out of Vanderbilt and have a youngster named Julio Urias who they are so high on that he was an “untouchable” last year when they were making late season trades for short term rentals like Manny Machado (who they made almost no effort to sign to a free agency deal.) Both probably are better prospects than any pitchers in the Pirate system, Mitch Keller (the new Nick Kingham wunderkind) included. But their basic philosophy has been to trade for pitchers and try to sign the cream of the Far East market.

When you compare them to the Red Sox and Yankees, the difference in philosophy is staggering. There is no Giancarlo Stanton or Chris Sale on the Dodger roster. The Red Sox and Yankees both have some great homegrown players, like Betts and Judge. But, both have been far more active in free agency and in trading prospects for short term rentals.

This year, everyone in LA expects the Dodgers to try to strengthen their pitching through late season acquisitions. But, everyone in LA also expects them to focus on pitchers who will become free agents at the end of the season so that they won’t deplete their top prospects to get them. If they do trade one of their young position players, it will be for an established pitcher under contract.

The transformation they have made is amazing. And it hasn’t relied on them being a large market team. It has relied on great scouting and drafting, something the Pirates have been sorely lacking in.

The Dodgers really are the perfect example of why the Pirates can’t use the small market excuse to justify their consistently mediocre product on the field.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Actually, Muncy is a guy they picked up from the scrap heap after Oakland gave up on him, but he does fit the "acquisitions" qualifier.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

When you consider what a mess the Dodgers were when Frank McCourt owned the team, it is amazing what they have been able to do in the last few years under new management.

When McCourt sold the team, the new owners tried to make an immediate splash by spending big on free agents. Nomar Garciaparra and Adrian Gonzalez were just two examples.

But, their core change was rebuilding the farm system and developing their own talent. And, their drafting/acquisitions of minor league players has been second to none: Cody Bellinger, Max Muncey, Corey Seager, Joc Pederson, Chris Taylor, Austin Barnes all have come up through their system. Compare that to the Pirates, where Josh Bell is the only established position player they drafted. The Dodgers have used signings from the Caribbean and Far East to supplement their drafting. The Pirates have tried to use them to compensate for their mediocre at best drafting.

Yes, the Dodgers are a big market club. But, who are their big free agent acquisitions? Russell Martin, David Freese and Justin Taylor. Hardly the high priced gems of the free agent market.

To me, their one potential weakness is pitching. They consciously have avoided utilizing a large percentage of their top ten draft choices on pitchers. The reason is simple: Pitchers have the lowest percentage of success among all drafted players. Especially high school pitchers. The Dodgers are playing the percentages. The Pirates, by contrast, have wasted a large percentage of their top ten draft choices on high school pitchers who have disappeared into the minor league vortex of failed arms.

The Dodgers did draft Walker Buehler out of Vanderbilt and have a youngster named Julio Urias who they are so high on that he was an “untouchable” last year when they were making late season trades for short term rentals like Manny Machado (who they made almost no effort to sign to a free agency deal.) Both probably are better prospects than any pitchers in the Pirate system, Mitch Keller (the new Nick Kingham wunderkind) included. But their basic philosophy has been to trade for pitchers and try to sign the cream of the Far East market.

When you compare them to the Red Sox and Yankees, the difference in philosophy is staggering. There is no Giancarlo Stanton or Chris Sale on the Dodger roster. The Red Sox and Yankees both have some great homegrown players, like Betts and Judge. But, both have been far more active in free agency and in trading prospects for short term rentals.

This year, everyone in LA expects the Dodgers to try to strengthen their pitching through late season acquisitions. But, everyone in LA also expects them to focus on pitchers who will become free agents at the end of the season so that they won’t deplete their top prospects to get them. If they do trade one of their young position players, it will be for an established pitcher under contract.

The transformation they have made is amazing. And it hasn’t relied on them being a large market team. It has relied on great scouting and drafting, something the Pirates have been sorely lacking in.

The Dodgers really are the perfect example of why the Pirates can’t use the small market excuse to justify their consistently mediocre product on the field.

Well there is absolutely no doubt that the Pirates biggest issue, even aside from ownership is the lack of drafting and development by this regime. Then again, it all does come back to ownership. Why? He extended this group this offseason. They are yes men. That's okay with Nutting. But you would think these guys would be fired with their horrible record of drafting and developing players.

 

[h2p_5150]

I dont think drafting is the problem. Its development. The pirates drafted Meadows, Cole and Glasnow. If they could have gotten the most of their talent like the new teams are, they would be winning 90 games a year. In a few years Jameson Taillon will be an ace on his new team, too.

 

[Ray-Ray]

I dont think drafting is the problem. Its development. The pirates drafted Meadows, Cole and Glasnow. If they could have gotten the most of their talent like the new teams are, they would be winning 90 games a year. In a few years Jameson Taillon will be an ace on his new team, too.

Maybe the Pirates payroll for coaches is even worse than the players.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I dont think drafting is the problem. Its development. The pirates drafted Meadows, Cole and Glasnow. If they could have gotten the most of their talent like the new teams are, they would be winning 90 games a year. In a few years Jameson Taillon will be an ace on his new team, too.

Drafting is a problem. Cole, Taillon was 1 and 2 overall. Anyone of us could make those moves. Remember, this is the team who chose Mark Appel and luckily for us, he didn't sign. Josh Bell caused the MLB slotting system to be implemented. That was the boldest, ballsiest move this organization made. And of course, the big markets recoiled and shut down this activity. But these types of picks and moves have been far too few and far between.

Look at pitching in our system now?

 

[benchwarmer04]

mike -you should be writing a regular column. very insightful,well thought baseball analysis. please keep contributing-we need it. can i sell you a broken down baseball team in the rustbelt ?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The Dodgers really are the perfect example of why the Pirates can’t use the small market excuse to justify their consistently mediocre product on the field.

There are a couple different ways to calculate payroll in the middle of the season, but according to Spotrac the Dodgers current total payroll (including things like buyouts) is $196,776,808. The Dodges spend more money on their top five players than eight teams spend on their total payroll.

Yeah, clearly market size has nothing to do with the Dodgers success.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

mike -you should be writing a regular column. very insightful,well thought baseball analysis. please keep contributing-we need it. can i sell you a broken down baseball team in the rustbelt ?

I get Mike's point. But the big difference between Dodgers (or Red Sox or Yankees) is that the Dodgers can draft and develop a Clayton Kershaw or Cody Bellinger and sign and keep them as long as they wish. The Pirates had no chance to retain Garrit Cole and will have no chance to keep Josh Bell. So yeah, well they do well to scout, draft and develop their own, they have no fears of another team way outbidding them for their best talents. Whilst the Pirates always has to have an eye towards that clock.

 

[pbrad]

There are a couple different ways to calculate payroll in the middle of the season, but according to Spotrac the Dodgers current total payroll (including things like buyouts) is $196,776,808. The Dodges spend more money on their top five players than eight teams spend on their total payroll.

Yeah, clearly market size has nothing to do with the Dodgers success.

It's easy to use the market size argument, but there are small market teams that compete for periods of time. The key is to draft correctly and develop talent while recognizing that talent and getting them under contract, at the same time making key trades. The prime example is Yelich to Milwaukee. The Bucs tried to get Marte and Polanco in the fold thinking they were young and had a high upside. Wrong again.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It's easy to use the market size argument, but there are small market teams that compete for periods of time. The key is to draft correctly and develop talent while recognizing that talent and getting them under contract, at the same time making key trades. The prime example is Yelich to Milwaukee. The Bucs tried to get Marte and Polanco in the fold thinking they were young and had a high upside. Wrong again.

Exactly. A team in the Pirates position needs to draft well and then do a good job of developing players if they want to compete. I have said that on numerous occasions. Owt bangs that drum all the time. But even doing that is only going to make the window to be a real contender a short time, a few seasons at best. Which is why when that time comes a team should do whatever they can to maximize that time frame. The Pirates failed miserably at that.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I get Mike's point. But the big difference between Dodgers (or Red Sox or Yankees) is that the Dodgers can draft and develop a Clayton Kershaw or Cody Bellinger and sign and keep them as long as they wish. The Pirates had no chance to retain Garrit Cole and will have no chance to keep Josh Bell. So yeah, well they do well to scout, draft and develop their own, they have no fears of another team way outbidding them for their best talents. Whilst the Pirates always has to have an eye towards that clock.

Exactly. If the Pirates drafted and developed Kershaw the same way that the Dodgers did he wouldn't be a Pirate right now anyway. Because there is no way that the Pirates could pay him, or anyone else, $31 million per season for the seven seasons that the Dodgers will be paying him that (not including bonuses). That's why what the Dodgers do has almost no relevance to the path that the Pirates need to take. The notion that what the Dodgers do somehow shows that the Pirates can't use their market size as an excuse is laughable, given what the Dodgers actually do.

 

[88Pitt88]

Exactly. If the Pirates drafted and developed Kershaw the same way that the Dodgers did he wouldn't be a Pirate right now anyway. Because there is no way that the Pirates could pay him, or anyone else, $31 million per season for the seven seasons that the Dodgers will be paying him that (not including bonuses). That's why what the Dodgers do has almost no relevance to the path that the Pirates need to take. The notion that what the Dodgers do somehow shows that the Pirates can't use their market size as an excuse is laughable, given what the Dodgers actually do.

I disagree here. Tell me why the Pirates can't afford to go all in on one franchise player in an effort to keep the team a viable contender for many years. Especially if that player likes it here. For instance, lets say Josh Bell continues to bash the ball for the next several years and when the Pirates no longer have control after the 2022 season, Your telling me they can't afford to keep him. Considering our current payroll, they could pay Josh Bell 35 million a season and that would only bring payroll up to a less than respectable 100 million.

The idea that we have to give up any great player we do have is bull. The owner does not wish to spend for a winner. That is the issue. I realize we can't sign everyone to that type of contract, but, if we can't keep great players that develop in our system here for longer than the rookie contract, this whole conversation is just senseless. Our chances of ever fielding a real winner are slim and none under the current operation.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Exactly. A team in the Pirates position needs to draft well and then do a good job of developing players if they want to compete. I have said that on numerous occasions. Owt bangs that drum all the time. But even doing that is only going to make the window to be a real contender a short time, a few seasons at best. Which is why when that time comes a team should do whatever they can to maximize that time frame. The Pirates failed miserably at that.

What pisses me most off and I think most other Pirate fans is we really do understand there is a window of true contention. Oh sure, you can extend an period of 80 wins and hoping to get lucky a year or two, which is what the Pirates exact strategy is, try and extend the perception that they contend.

I think most Pirates fans (baseball fans) would perfectly accept a season like when they won 98 games, and made the Archer trade then, great. That's when you make a trade like this. Most trades, if it means giving up the future to win now, well look at the Penguins. To me losing, 98 games or 82 games really don't make a difference. Winning 98 games or 82 games does.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I disagree here. Tell me why the Pirates can't afford to go all in on one franchise player in an effort to keep the team a viable contender for many years. Especially if that player likes it here. For instance, lets say Josh Bell continues to bash the ball for the next several years and when the Pirates no longer have control after the 2022 season, Your telling me they can't afford to keep him. Considering our current payroll, they could pay Josh Bell 35 million a season and that would only bring payroll up to a less than respectable 100 million.

The idea that we have to give up any great player we do have is bull. The owner does not wish to spend for a winner. That is the issue. I realize we can't sign everyone to that type of contract, but, if we can't keep great players that develop in our system here for longer than the rookie contract, this whole conversation is just senseless. Our chances of ever fielding a real winner are slim and none under the current operation.

First of all, the Pirates current payroll for their 40 man plus all the guys on the injured list is $81 million. So adding a $35 million player doesn't get them to $100 million, It gets them to $116 million. But it's not our money, so who cares about $16 million, right?

Secondly, *could* the Pirates have a $30+ million player on their payroll? Absolutely they *could*. They *could* have a total payroll of $120 million or $150 million or more. They absolutely *could*. But they aren't going to. Are there seriously people in 2019 that haven't figured that out yet? Ownership gives the front office a budget each year, and that budget simply does not allow for a $120 million or $150 million payroll. And it isn't going to in the future either. Until forced to either by the collective bargaining agreement or through inflation or through an ownership change, none of which are happening any time soon.

People who think that the Pirates are ever going to be in the market for a $30 million player are simply setting themselves up for perpetual disappointment. Which, for some people, actually seems to be the point.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

What pisses me most off and I think most other Pirate fans is we really do understand there is a window of true contention. Oh sure, you can extend an period of 80 wins and hoping to get lucky a year or two, which is what the Pirates exact strategy is, try and extend the perception that they contend.

I think most Pirates fans (baseball fans) would perfectly accept a season like when they won 98 games, and made the Archer trade then, great. That's when you make a trade like this. Most trades, if it means giving up the future to win now, well look at the Penguins. To me losing, 98 games or 82 games really don't make a difference. Winning 98 games or 82 games does.

The Marlins are the poster boys for that. Well, except for the fact that they don't really have any fans whether they are really good or really awful. But look at the way they have, for the most part, operated since their inception. And part of this is good luck on their part, but hey, sometimes you have to get lucky.

They win 64, 51, 67 and 80 their first four seasons. Then they have a chance and they go for it. They win 92, get the wild card, win three playoff series against teams with better records than them and win the championship.

Then they realize that they can't keep that team together, so they completely tear the whole thing apart. They win 54, 64, 79, 76 and 79, and then they again have a season where they go for it. The win 91 games, get the wild card, win three playoff series against teams with better records than them and they win a second championship. And then they pretty much pulled that team apart too.

Now was it lucky that they won six playoff series in a row against teams with a better regular season record than them? Sure, at some level it was. But they put themselves into position to get some good luck, and when it showed up they took advantage of it. Over those 11 seasons they were really only playoff contenders twice. But they won each season they put themselves into that position. If you go for broke and you win, people will forgive you for taking five or six years to build something. They'll give you more leeway over the next five or six years when you are trying to build something again. But when your goal is to be respectable every year, even if you achieve that goal, who cares? People care about making the playoffs, not playing .500 ball.

 

[pbrad]

Small market teams, or teams with a very small fan base are at a disadvantage, however front office and on the field decisions play a huge role in their success or lack of. The Oakland A's are the prime example. They contend almost every year because they have one of the best GM's ever. Minnesota has contended on a regular basis because for years the front office gave the field manager good players that he managed the hell out of (before he was let go for a younger guy). Houston, although not small market, decided to sign young players long term and add veterans in the right spot to produce a championship. Cleveland is another example. The Pirates front office can't get out of their own way.

For some reason I see a correlation to PITT football. Blue bloods vs. an administration that is not all in.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Minnesota has contended on a regular basis because for years the front office gave the field manager good players that he managed the hell out of (before he was let go for a younger guy). Houston, although not small market, decided to sign young players long term and add veterans in the right spot to produce a championship.

Minnesota has finished 5th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 2nd, 5th, 2nd and 2nd in the last 8 years. In that time they've never won more than 85 games in a season. Their second best season is 83 wins, and their third best is 78. They won 70 or less in the other five. They made the wild card game once, and they lost. Are you sure they are someone you want to point to for the Pirates to emulate, seeing as to how the Pirates have actually been more successful this decade?

And of course Houston is the 4th largest metropolitan area in the United States. And they won their championship by intentionally sucking to accumulate as many high draft picks as possible. While that might be a strategy for the Pirates to emulate at some point, imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth in western PA when that day comes.

 

[gopitt04]

There are a couple different ways to calculate payroll in the middle of the season, but according to Spotrac the Dodgers current total payroll (including things like buyouts) is $196,776,808. The Dodges spend more money on their top five players than eight teams spend on their total payroll.

Yeah, clearly market size has nothing to do with the Dodgers success.

Exactly. They have the fourth highest payroll in MLB, last year they were 3rd. In fact their payroll was 20 million more than the Yankees.

This year, they have 38 million in dead money, guys they just got rid of. How many teams can afford to do that? To put that into perspective, that's half the Pirates entire payroll

 

[jtownknowitall]

The Pirates could afford to pay Josh Bell. But they won’t. Why? See Ryan Howard. Miguel Cabrera. Albert Pujols. Joey Votto. Joe Maurer. Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

[mike412]

Small market teams can go all-in on one player. The Brewers did that with Grienke. Then, he had the worst year of his career.

The Dodgers payroll is high because they chose to lock up young guys long term, like Bellinger and Seagar. They could have a much lower payroll this year because they have a ton of young guys who wouldn’t be eligible for arbitration. But, they choose to reward those guys to try to keep them long-term. The Pirates did that with Marte and Polanco. That unfortunately is another example of poor talent evaluation.

Look, the system is unfair. The only way to make it fair is for the small and medium market teams to rebel and insist on a salary cap. But, they don’t have the guts to do that. They are still making money even if they lose.
So, the most they can hope for is to have windows of opportunity where they can be competitive. The Dodgers, if they were a small market team, could do that this year. They wouldn’t have given big money to their young stars but they would still have them under contract. Most of their pitchers are either still under arbitration levels of experience or not that expensive free agents like Rich Hill. Are you telling me the Pirates couldn’t afford Rich Hill? Then there is Kershaw. Maybe if he had played five years in Pittsburgh for an owner who cared about winning he would have taken a home town discount; maybe not. But, I think you can make up for his 20 wins with one or two cheaper FA pitchers. You can’t replace Bellinger, Seagar, Taylor, etc. that easily.

The year Taillon went #1, the Pirates had 12 draft choices in the top 10 rounds. Nine of them went to HS pitchers; one went to a college pitcher. Where are they? Stetson Allie was a bust. The college relief pitcher they got as a compensatory pick in the second round was a bust. Among the others was a HS pitcher from Texas named Zack Rosenberg, I believe, who reportedly would have been a 1st or 2nd rounder but had signed a LOI with Texas to play QB. The Pirates offered him a boatload of money and he signed. He was a bust. They paid similar but lower amounts for other P who weren’t expected to go pro, inducing them to sign. All busts. Interestingly, there are 6 HS pitchers other than Taillon chosen in that draft who are on MLB rosters. None with the Pirates. But 7 total HS pitchers making the majors illustrates what a poor strategy it is to focus on HS pitchers in the draft.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Small market teams can go all-in on one player. The Brewers did that with Grienke. Then, he had the worst year of his career.

The Dodgers payroll is high because they chose to lock up young guys long term, like Bellinger and Seagar. They could have a much lower payroll this year because they have a ton of young guys who wouldn’t be eligible for arbitration. But, they choose to reward those guys to try to keep them long-term. The Pirates did that with Marte and Polanco. That unfortunately is another example of poor talent evaluation.

Look, the system is unfair. The only way to make it fair is for the small and medium market teams to rebel and insist on a salary cap. But, they don’t have the guts to do that. They are still making money even if they lose.
So, the most they can hope for is to have windows of opportunity where they can be competitive. The Dodgers, if they were a small market team, could do that this year. They wouldn’t have given big money to their young stars but they would still have them under contract. Most of their pitchers are either still under arbitration levels of experience or not that expensive free agents like Rich Hill. Are you telling me the Pirates couldn’t afford Rich Hill? Then there is Kershaw. Maybe if he had played five years in Pittsburgh for an owner who cared about winning he would have taken a home town discount; maybe not. But, I think you can make up for his 20 wins with one or two cheaper FA pitchers. You can’t replace Bellinger, Seagar, Taylor, etc. that easily.

The year Taillon went #1, the Pirates had 12 draft choices in the top 10 rounds. Nine of them went to HS pitchers; one went to a college pitcher. Where are they? Stetson Allie was a bust. The college relief pitcher they got as a compensatory pick in the second round was a bust. Among the others was a HS pitcher from Texas named Zack Rosenberg, I believe, who reportedly would have been a 1st or 2nd rounder but had signed a LOI with Texas to play QB. The Pirates offered him a boatload of money and he signed. He was a bust. They paid similar but lower amounts for other P who weren’t expected to go pro, inducing them to sign. All busts. Interestingly, there are 6 HS pitchers other than Taillon chosen in that draft who are on MLB rosters. None with the Pirates. But 7 total HS pitchers making the majors illustrates what a poor strategy it is to focus on HS pitchers in the draft.

So much to respond to, so little time.

The Dodgers top five highest paid players are all guys who were eligible to be free agents. Kershaw is at $31 million, Kenley Jansen, Justin Turner and yes, Rich Hill all make $18 million in base salary, and Hyun-Jin Ryu took the qualifying offer of $17.9 million to forego a year of free agency.

Hill signed a 3 year, $48 million contract at age 37. Is that seriously the kind of contract you think there's any chance at all that the Pirates would agree to? Really?

Additionally, the guys you site as the reason for the Dodgers high payroll are absolutely NOT the reason. Seager makes $4 million as a first time arbitration eligible player. The Pirates would pay him that in a heartbeat. Bellinger isn't arbitration eligible yet. He's making $605,000 this year. In actual fact, the Dodgers don't have ANY long term deals with any pre-free agent players like the Pirates did with Marte and Polanco. None.

 

[pbrad]

Minnesota has finished 5th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 2nd, 5th, 2nd and 2nd in the last 8 years. In that time they've never won more than 85 games in a season. Their second best season is 83 wins, and their third best is 78. They won 70 or less in the other five. They made the wild card game once, and they lost. Are you sure they are someone you want to point to for the Pirates to emulate, seeing as to how the Pirates have actually been more successful this decade?

And of course Houston is the 4th largest metropolitan area in the United States. And they won their championship by intentionally sucking to accumulate as many high draft picks as possible. While that might be a strategy for the Pirates to emulate at some point, imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth in western PA when that day comes.

Yes and in the 8 years prior Minnesota finished 1st 5 count em 5 times. I did not say Houston was small market, but they knew who to draft and to sign young players long term. The Pirates draft players, they don't pan out or they sign a couple long term (Marte,Polanco) and they wouldn't start on most teams. Enjoy Bell while you can because he is putting up better numbers than Harper or Machado ever did.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Yes and in the 8 years prior Minnesota finished 1st 5 count em 5 times.

What the Twins were doing 15 years ago has basically no bearing at all on what would or would not be successful today, unless you are talking in gross generalities like "draft good players". Yeah, no kidding.

 

[paulbl99]

When you consider what a mess the Dodgers were when Frank McCourt owned the team, it is amazing what they have been able to do in the last few years under new management.

When McCourt sold the team, the new owners tried to make an immediate splash by spending big on free agents. Nomar Garciaparra and Adrian Gonzalez were just two examples.

But, their core change was rebuilding the farm system and developing their own talent. And, their drafting/acquisitions of minor league players has been second to none: Cody Bellinger, Max Muncey, Corey Seager, Joc Pederson, Chris Taylor, Austin Barnes all have come up through their system. Compare that to the Pirates, where Josh Bell is the only established position player they drafted. The Dodgers have used signings from the Caribbean and Far East to supplement their drafting. The Pirates have tried to use them to compensate for their mediocre at best drafting.

Yes, the Dodgers are a big market club. But, who are their big free agent acquisitions? Russell Martin, David Freese and Justin Taylor. Hardly the high priced gems of the free agent market.

To me, their one potential weakness is pitching. They consciously have avoided utilizing a large percentage of their top ten draft choices on pitchers. The reason is simple: Pitchers have the lowest percentage of success among all drafted players. Especially high school pitchers. The Dodgers are playing the percentages. The Pirates, by contrast, have wasted a large percentage of their top ten draft choices on high school pitchers who have disappeared into the minor league vortex of failed arms.

The Dodgers did draft Walker Buehler out of Vanderbilt and have a youngster named Julio Urias who they are so high on that he was an “untouchable” last year when they were making late season trades for short term rentals like Manny Machado (who they made almost no effort to sign to a free agency deal.) Both probably are better prospects than any pitchers in the Pirate system, Mitch Keller (the new Nick Kingham wunderkind) included. But their basic philosophy has been to trade for pitchers and try to sign the cream of the Far East market.

When you compare them to the Red Sox and Yankees, the difference in philosophy is staggering. There is no Giancarlo Stanton or Chris Sale on the Dodger roster. The Red Sox and Yankees both have some great homegrown players, like Betts and Judge. But, both have been far more active in free agency and in trading prospects for short term rentals.

This year, everyone in LA expects the Dodgers to try to strengthen their pitching through late season acquisitions. But, everyone in LA also expects them to focus on pitchers who will become free agents at the end of the season so that they won’t deplete their top prospects to get them. If they do trade one of their young position players, it will be for an established pitcher under contract.

The transformation they have made is amazing. And it hasn’t relied on them being a large market team. It has relied on great scouting and drafting, something the Pirates have been sorely lacking in.

The Dodgers really are the perfect example of why the Pirates can’t use the small market excuse to justify their consistently mediocre product on the field.

Great post right here

 

[BuffetParrothead]

So much to respond to, so little time.

The Dodgers top five highest paid players are all guys who were eligible to be free agents. Kershaw is at $31 million, Kenley Jansen, Justin Turner and yes, Rich Hill all make $18 million in base salary, and Hyun-Jin Ryu took the qualifying offer of $17.9 million to forego a year of free agency.

Hill signed a 3 year, $48 million contract at age 37. Is that seriously the kind of contract you think there's any chance at all that the Pirates would agree to? Really?

Additionally, the guys you site as the reason for the Dodgers high payroll are absolutely NOT the reason. Seager makes $4 million as a first time arbitration eligible player. The Pirates would pay him that in a heartbeat. Bellinger isn't arbitration eligible yet. He's making $605,000 this year. In actual fact, the Dodgers don't have ANY long term deals with any pre-free agent players like the Pirates did with Marte and Polanco. None.

Joe isn't it time to feed the pigeons?
They get hungry!
And you do need some rest since
the Legend In Your Own Mind award
ceremony is coming up.
You can't miss that? Can you?
Joe what if you finish 2nd?
What will the Pigeons think?

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

And you do need some rest since
the Legend In Your Own Mind award
ceremony is coming up.
You can't miss that? Can you?
Joe what if you finish 2nd?
What will the Pigeons think?

I'm not one to defend Joe, but there's no way he could win that one, because they've already retired it in your honor. Sort of a lifetime achievement award.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Joe isn't it time to feed the pigeons?
They get hungry!
And you do need some rest since
the Legend In Your Own Mind award
ceremony is coming up.
You can't miss that? Can you?
Joe what if you finish 2nd?
What will the Pigeons think?

Oh the irony

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Oh the irony

Some people simply cannot handle facts. Opinions, no matter how ill informed, are way more fun.