80% chance Jamie kills her when she tries to release wildfire.
Outside of pushing Bran, Jamie is actually rather honorable on the TV series and it would make his character arc come full circle.
OT: Game of Thrones
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Outside of pushing Bran, Jamie is actually rather honorable on the TV series and it would make his character arc come full circle.
I think they left that part out of the show. Maggy the Frog predicts that: "Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."
Valonqar is Valyrian for litte brother. She thinks it means Tyrion, but the whole point of Maggy's prophecies is that they're self-fulfilling, so by becoming like Aerys, she is sowing the seeds for Jaime to kill her.
I just think that what people want to think about BOB is greater than what it was.
It was a good, but Blackwater was truly epic, a top 10 ever "TV" episode and hardhome was better, too.
I think BOB exceeded everyone's expectations because we have been conditioned to assume the worst by Martin. Fans of GOT and ASOIAF rarely get what they want, especially when the the Starks are concerned. In a sense, Blackwater helped make BOB better.
We know that movies more often than not stray from books. It happens all the time. But in your opinion, what are the main occasions in which GOT went off course? Is it mainly with Stoneheart, Sansa and Arya?
My heart was pounding the entire time with blackwater, it was just down right intense. Cercie doing her thing with Sansa, at the end a split second from poisoning tommen, Tyrion going down and being a hero, Stannis' fleet getting blasted with fire water and him not being phased by it, his overall relentlessness. The tone was one steady, menacing drum beat the whole time.
BOB, I was literally bored with it, just waiting for the Nights of the Vale to show up because they didn't bring Jon Snow back from the dead a few eposodes earlier to have him buried under a bunch of bodies in battle. I knew how it was gong to end before it started, Jon was going to get punked by Ramsey and the Knights of the Vale would save the day.
I thought BOB was awful.
Jon Snow looking like a turd. A lot of visual moments when I was left asking, "wait, who just killed who?", and Sansa who is becoming unbearable despite Sophie Turner's talent.
The finale was unbelievable though. Perhaps the best episode of television even though dat der bald man had himself a transporter n' at.
My experience was just the opposite, Blackwater set the bar high enough that BOB, again, while good, did not measure up. The atmopshere and tone of Blackwater was equal to this Sunday's episode, first. BOB simply did not have the same intensity or strength of production (and the battle scene was not a visceral as either Blackwater or the battle with the walkers, imo) AND the turning point for BOB was the same as Blackwater, and something that has become a bit cliche with the series.
It was good to see the starks finally catch a break, but Blackwater was I think the first time a battle was all but finished only to be turned by a surprise, last minute entry by an unexpected force that saved the day.
This had happened enough, and Sansa's Raven had telegraphed it, that to me, as BOB drug out I was bored with it, waiting for the Knights of the Vale to save the day.
Those three are big ones and you gotta think why? Especially the Stoneheart thing because at least in the books it provided a good relief (?) after the Red Wedding...I have a hard time understanding why their reasoning for taking stuff out gets explained by ".we can't fit in everything" but they waste 5 minutes on Tyrion drinking wine and telling dumb jokes at Mereen? (what was the point in that scene?)... Jon Snow got brought back immediately and does nothing really till the BOB...Brienne travels to Riverrun ...why? Where is she BTW? That was a setup for Stoneheart ... Why do it at all?
Honestly, I was nearly out at shadow demon killing Reply, so personally I know there is no way I could have taken Stoneheart.
Beric sets up the idea that resurrection is possible. Stoneheart would have made every death inconsequential. Holding off until using it for Jon made it mean a lot more IMO.
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I think 100% chance he kills her when she tries to burn King's Landing rather than surrender to the Tyrells/Dornish/Targaryens.
Right, and the prophecy is RIGHT ON in the books because Joffrey, Myrcella (in Dorne) and Tommen are all crowned as monarchs and then are all quickly killed thereafter.
The show is a little different because I don't think Myrcella was ever made Queen of Dorne but you get the point.
so the REAL question is:
Why would John Snow/Starks work with Daeny to overthrow the lannisters?
I get they all are unified in wanting to kill the lannisters for various vengeance reason...but, why would they be allies to unify the seven kingdoms?
Why would John Snow/Starks work with Daeny to overthrow the lannisters?
I get they all are unified in wanting to kill the lannisters for various vengeance reason...but, why would they be allies to unify the seven kingdoms?
Who knows, but while they don't know it, it very much appears they are related, and possibly brother and sister.
That said, while it was a chick thing to an extent, Daeny cut the deal with Yara, basically trading a ride to the seven kingdoms for Yara getting the Iron Islands as long asthey behave. Daeny just wants the throne and payback. Jon doesn't really want the throne and payback, just will want the North, and Daeny probably won't care as long as he is decent, which he is.
Daeny seems to think people should be free and able to govern/organize themselves, with the right leader at the top. I think she'll take the throne and allow most of the territories to lead themselves, as long as they remain loyal to her.
Plus, they're going to have an Independence Day-like experience with the entire kingdom uniting to fight the WWalkers. The ultimate union will likely be Daeny taking King's Landing shortly before or after Snow demanding reinforcements in the north to fight the WWalkers.
That's the only way I can see it being possible to rally behind Daeny, is if her dragons just eff up the White Walkers to save the kingdom.
But, I can't help but think Bran is going to be a major force due to his abilities.
Well, Yara really has no other choice..she needs to support Daeny or she's dead on her own.
Bruh, very unlikely they are brother and sister. Dany is most likely his aunt. I know that isn't for sure but I don't think they have the time left to sew the seeds of her being anything but his aunt.
As for Dany's plan of freedom for the 7 kingdoms, it seems like she is leaning that way but I can't see Martin writing that.
Daeny seems like a libertarian. As long as you don't f*** with anyone else, she'll leave you alone. That was basically her deal for the Iron Islands. Dorn/North/etc. all seem to be pissed mostly because the Lannisters keep f***ing with their local issues.
Oh yeah, just saying Daeny isn't asking for a lot as long as who she is working with is decent.
Souf has spent 43,000 posts telling people they shouldn't post or care about the topics he is responding to them in.
As I mentioned on TOS, Jon will find out he's a Stark-Targaryen. He's also the only remaining suitor from the major houses of Westeros. His marriage to Daenarys would stabilize the seven kingdoms and remove potential Jon-Sansa strife as she could become head of Winterfell and Warden of the North. He could also use her dragons to fight the white walkers. All problems solved.
I want to come back and emphasize that myself and a lot of the "book-first" people I associate with desperately want to like the show. Honest. We want to love it! For me, I don't mind adaptational decisions. I was 100% fine with them cutting out Arianne. What bothers me though, are the wholesale changes to character motivations and themes. That's the stuff that you don't need to change. Like, the gradual fracturing of Jaime and Cersi's relationship is fascinating. But the show totally botches that. Similarly, Tyrion is one messed up dude. He's super awful, but you want to like him anyway, and that creates this weird moral grey area that makes for an interesting experience. In the show, he's a total Mary Sue. That's the stuff that bothers me more than misappropriated dialogue or adaptational changes.
Yeah. Blackwater was great because it was about the characters first and the action second. Plus, it has my favorite moment in the entire show:
The best episode of television ever? Like, any television? It's not just that Varys movement makes no sense, but there's inconsistent characterization throughout the whole episode. Pretty effects does not a best episode ever make.
I just think the book prophecy is so much darker. There's Cersei killing her friend, the way she ends up sowing the seeds for Marg becoming the younger, more beautiful queen.
What you say about Tyrion in the books is how I feel about Jamie. I find myself wanting to like the guy, but he crippled a young boy, has chronic incest with his sister and then rapes the same woman beside his dead fathers body.
Jayme is done with her. He looked confused and distressed. But I don't think he kills her.
Where are the leaders ? - House Frey, Boltons, Baratheons, Tully, etc - such a power vacuum.
The basic theory is 3 dragon riders - Jon Snow and the dwarf make the most sense to join Dany.
I thought the last two weeks were great.
Finally the Starks win a few. I hope Ghost and Aryas wolf make an appearance - but don't get their heads cut off.
The Freys need to be punished some more.
How will LAnisters react to the King in the North and the Freys being wasted ?
I dunno man, maybe I am suffering from recency bias, but that episode was damn good. And hardly any of it was good from special effects.
Other than the plot hole that Dany is cool with Varys, I don't see any inconsistent characterization in that episode. Are some characters less fleshed out than you'd like compared to the books? I'm sure they are. It might sound like an excuse but that is largely due to the medium.
And when you guys just yell from the mountain tops and don't give any specific examples, then I don't know what to tell you. You give the prophecy as one example. I apologize for not being a moron, but I didn't need a prophecy read to me to recognize that Marg is a younger, prettier, perhaps more cunning queen gunning to replace Cersei. If you need a spoken or written prophecy to recognize that, then maybe the problem is with you and not the show runners.
Look, I loved Oz, Breaking Bad, the Wire, etc. Many shows are better than this. Heck, I admitted that I have almost quit watching this show, but even the Wire and Breaking Bad had writing missteps.
And you know, maybe these guys could tell a better story if they had the benefit of writing it over 25 years and don't have to worry about paying to show some stupid dragons.
Some specific complaints. Take them for what they're worth.
1: Lack of consistency with the timeline and travel. It isn't just Varys teleporting r everywhere. It's Arya teleporting, or Littlefinger being wherever the plot needs him to be. Or the fact that Edmure has been kept in the Frey's prison for "years" but Gilly's baby is just now not a newborn. Maybe this is nitpicking, but this suspends my disbelief and takes me out of the episode.
2: Terrible plot armor. Areo Hotah is stabbed once and dies. Roose is stabbed once and dies. Lancel is stabbed once and is incapacitated. Arya is stabbed multiple times and is able to parkour throughout Braavos. Right...
3: Why did Qyburn kill Pycelle? Just to misappropriate book dialogue? Pycelle is a Lannister lackey. He would have died at the Sept anyway.
4: What was the purpose of Sam's arc? They have turned him into a 21st century bro who reinforces toxic masculinity. The entire point of his character is finding strength in non-traditional ways.
5: Why include yet another implied rape of the Septa? It was unnecessary and gratuitous.
6: What was the purpose of the Frey pies? They serve a specific purpose when Manderly does it, but this is just the checklist effect here.
7: Why was the wildfire explosion so contained? This is not a controlled demolition. Why didn't the very religious population revolt?
8: If Arya had time to kill the Freys and bake them into a pie, why didn't she free her uncle?
9: Why did the actors for Tommen and Marg have such different ideas for how old Tommen was? Do the producers realize they wrote Tommen as a victim of rape and abuse?
I'm sure I'll have more later, but this is a fair start.
I like the show bunches, and as not a book reader, so I just take it for what it is worth as a pdg tv series.
1 - I see these disconnects, but ... with such an expansive world and so many storylines (far more than pretty much any series we have seen), it just is going to be impossible get everyone where they need to be without some disconnect. It is TV, and they have 55 minutes to try to get all the storylines advanced.
2 - Yeah, not the best moment with that Arya thing. They got where they needed to with how she killed the Waif and squared it, but they overdid the stabbing/recovery.
3 - I meant to mention this prior to the last show. As much as we ALL love to hate Cercei, the one legitimate beef she had was with Pycelle, and I was going to say I was looking forward to her finally getting around to doing him in, something I think drug out longer than I would have imagined with her. I think given how long that particular dynamic played out between those two, he definitely deserved some special attention.
6 - yeah, agree on the pies thing with Frey. I do think they needed to have some juice to the moment given that it was the revenge for the seminal moment in the series, Arya getting her first big time revenge for her family and rolling out her new skills. But, the pies thing was forced and stupid.
7 - The explosion certainly was a lot more tidy how it occurred and the aftermath than you would think.
Don't forget "Terminator Waif".... That was ridiculous.... Also note not only does Arya run around like someone without any injury let alone lethal ones... She chooses to slide on her right side...under the wagon on the steps... Right where she was stabbed...laughed out loud right there...
1. This is and always will be a non starter. Laughable complaint.
2. Fair. Though Arya wad clearly playing opossum during her final encounter with the Waif. Now, they overdid her stabbing etc, and that was umfortunate.
3. Fair. Clearly done to build drama and put different characters in different places in KL to do the godfather style scene.
4. He really hasn't done much heroic. Stood up to his dad once , but even then he really didnt. He's mostly a runner. Obviously going to find some key Dragon Glass information in the Citadel. Also, not that it succeeds but he is supposed to be comic relief.
5. Another showing of the devil inside of Cersei.
6. Revenge and God was it a good bit of fan service. It might not work in the world the author has created, but while it is a harsh world, it isn't out of the realm of possibility to think that occasionally a character we care for could get what they want.
7. Could easily have moved the surrounding caches of wildfire. I dunno man. Thinking way too hard about this. Wildfire truthers tell me it can't burn steel beams. As for the revolt we haven't been shown KL. We haven't seen the common folk. Safe to assume over 1000 people got got. A large portion of the population doesn't care who the queen is, but maybe there is a portion revolting outside the walls of the red keep and we will see next season.
8. Did I miss where they announced Edmure dead or still detained? Perhaps she did it off scene or we will see it next year. Perhaps she gives zero shits about her uncle and doesn't even know for sure he is there or what he even looks like?
9. I'm missing something here.
Hey, at least you had specific gripes. I respect that. And I respect that you are disappointed in the show. It is your prerogative.
I know the writers explain the time travel with "passage of time" but then maybe they should do a better job of illustrating it...take Cerci... Have her hairstyle grow out or something...she has the same haircut as the walk of shame...and was wearing the same clothes in the beginning of the episode as the end... What else is a viewer expected to believe then other than the whole city rushed in hours after being blown up to annoint her as queen?
Everything brought up is fair game. Such a large amount of info in the Martin World. It makes what Peter Jackson did with Tolken's work so extraordinary. But it's tv. And pretty good tv. I live with it and enjoy it. Hell, I grew up with Star Wars. There's a billion issues within those films. Yet the franchise is worth billions.
True and I watch ...I think whoever said readers WANT to love it is spot on... Hey I'm only on book 4 and originally was reading just a step ahead of where the show was... Then it went nuts and I realized all the bouncing around made it impossible... I just sometimes think it COULD be so much better 
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