OT - Gregg Berhalter

[Pitt79]

I think it’s easier to project girls at that age. But it’s really difficult for boys.

Even girls, my daughter was decidedly mediocre until 9th grade, then from then on made every team and beat out all the arrogant soccer mom's daughters who had been kicking her ass for the previous 5-6 years. I remember the first time she tried out for high school; I was like don't get too upset if you don't make it, then she made it was a starter playing every minute pretty soon after, she just clicked like that at about 14.

 

[USN_Panther]

Even girls, my daughter was decidedly mediocre until 9th grade, then from then on made every team and beat out all the arrogant soccer mom's daughters who had been kicking her ass for the previous 5-6 years. I remember the first time she tried out for high school; I was like don't get too upset if you don't make it, then she made it was a starter playing every minute pretty soon after, she just clicked like that at about 14.

I have read a few books that address these issues. There are some chapters in the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. He goes into eligibility rules around birth age for youth sports, and how the kid who is nearly a year older than some in the same eligibility year excels because of that and then gets additional coaching and playing opportunities compared to others.
There is another book called the "Talent Trap" that looks at the selection metrics used in youth sports.
I have seen many young players in ice hockey who excel in peewees based on size, speed and ability to skate with the puck. This actually stunts their development with other essential skills, like passing, vision of the ice, receiving passes. They can skate through 5 players and score at age 11 without looking up. When the other players are older and bigger and allowed to hit them, and they haven't learned the necessary game skills, they no longer stand out.
I think a key point often missed in youth sports is that winning the under 12 championship by 8 goals shouldn't be the primary metric. Excluding younger or smaller players at a young age inhibits development of both players and the sport itself.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Too bad Michael Jordan did not make his high school team and got cut the first year. As far as those athletes mentioned, probably true., but not necessarily.

And I bet he had elite athleticism at 8 years old. I'm talking athleticism, not skill development

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I have read a few books that address these issues. There are some chapters in the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. He goes into eligibility rules around birth age for youth sports, and how the kid who is nearly a year older than some in the same eligibility year excels because of that and then gets additional coaching and playing opportunities compared to others.
There is another book called the "Talent Trap" that looks at the selection metrics used in youth sports.
I have seen many young players in ice hockey who excel in peewees based on size, speed and ability to skate with the puck. This actually stunts their development with other essential skills, like passing, vision of the ice, receiving passes. They can skate through 5 players and score at age 11 without looking up. When the other players are older and bigger and allowed to hit them, and they haven't learned the necessary game skills, they no longer stand out.
I think a key point often missed in youth sports is that winning the under 12 championship by 8 goals shouldn't be the primary metric. Excluding younger or smaller players at a young age inhibits development of both players and the sport itself.

Isnt there that study that most Canadien NHL players were born in January/February with the thought being they always were the oldest in their birth year leagues. Soccer is the same. The best players are typically your January-April kids who are a grade older.

 

[USN_Panther]

Isnt there that study that most Canadien NHL players were born in January/February with the thought being they always were the oldest in their birth year leagues. Soccer is the same. The best players are typically your January-April kids who are a grade older.

And MLB with July birthdates for the August 1 cutoff.
Our club had an ice hockey coach who didn't understand club growth and development. He would play basically 1.5 lines of older players in peewees and smash everyone by 10-20 goals. The problem arose 2-3 years down the line when all the younger players who didn't get game time quit. And the teams getting smashed like that-they had a lot of players quit. It harmed the league for several years down the track as two clubs didn't have enough players to put in teams, and another team started playing only 8 players to win peewees.
The coach had his contract terminated as there were no longer enough players to pay fees to pay him. All because he tried to be peewee champion of the world.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

Isnt there that study that most Canadien NHL players were born in January/February with the thought being they always were the oldest in their birth year leagues. Soccer is the same. The best players are typically your January-April kids who are a grade older.

There’s something to be said for holding a child back if there’s any question about their maturity.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

There’s something to be said for holding a child back if there’s any question about their maturity.

For sports, absolutely. I am seeing May birthdays being held back now.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

I really wonder what the total number of paid professional athletes is in the whole world and what that percentage is versus the population of the rest of the world. I cannot even venture to guess but I suspect it is a very small fraction. Then think about that fraction when you are looking at kids playing a sport in your local area and ask yourself what the chances are that any of those kids actually move on to earning a living in athletics. It must be infinitesimal. Then think about a coach at that level and being able to choose what kid succeeds without any real pattern of performance that would guarantee what it takes to achieve that success. It is harder than finding a needle in a haystack. GGG has better ability to know who can be successful but not clairvoyant ability. Is he wrong about Gio? Maybe. But who knows. However the worst thing he did was talk about it knowing it would go public. It’s almost like he wanted to sacrifice himself.

 

[Pitt79]

I have read a few books that address these issues. There are some chapters in the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. He goes into eligibility rules around birth age for youth sports, and how the kid who is nearly a year older than some in the same eligibility year excels because of that and then gets additional coaching and playing opportunities compared to others.

Great point, my daughter was born August 17, 2001, so she was grouped together with the kids born September 1, 2000 to September 1, 2001, so she was always among the youngest, and I don't think that situation evens out until you get close to high school.

 

[Pitt79]

And I bet he had elite athleticism at 8 years old. I'm talking athleticism, not skill development

What is this "athleticism"? speed? strength? Honestly, you never saw anyone that was a sprint champion, who could outrun everyone but sucked in sports like football and soccer and basketball? Same with weightlifters? They could lift more than anyone else, but couldn't play any sport, not even O line? I have.

 

[PeetWeet2]

That is just totally untrue. It is impossible to predict an athlete’s future athleticism at that early age. Studies have been done that follow top athletes at age 11. 6-7 years later only 1 of 5 top 5 athletes are still in the top 5.

And yet World Cup soccer players have an overrepresentation of advantageous youth birthdays.