OT: Kessel traded to Coyotes

[str61166]

Sullivan is the best coach outside bowman and badger bob. He might be rigid to a system but most pro coaches are. He is not the problem

Hockey in general just seems to whittle through changes quickly. The other mini dynasties (Kings/Blackhawks) of this past decade have said bye to their coaches. A good amount of current coaches I feel are on their 3rd or 4th team. Hell, playerwise, already a ton of departures from the ‘16/‘17 cup teams.

Fire him in December if the team isn’t doing well again and hope for a repeat of 09, 16?

Seems to be pretty popular right now to **** on GMJR. Agree he has made some bad moves, namely the Johnson signing. But did everyone enjoy all those playoff exits in the Shero years, when we all thought the core had more in them after ‘09?

The cups don’t absolve him from any blame, but nor should he be discredited for them.

 

[Burgh15]

Seems to be pretty popular right now to **** on GMJR. Agree he has made some bad moves, namely the Johnson signing. But did everyone enjoy all those playoff exits in the Shero years, when we all thought the core had more in them after ‘09?

It is possible to give Rutherord props for helping build the Cup teams and still be disappointed with his moves over the past couple of years.

 

[str61166]

It is possible to give Rutherord props for helping build the Cup teams and still be disappointed with his moves over the past couple of years.

Right, that’s why I added:

“The cups don’t absolve him from any blame, but nor should he be discredited for them”

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

It is possible to give Rutherord props for helping build the Cup teams and still be disappointed with his moves over the past couple of years.

Yes. Exactly. Despite the attempts by our politics and the networks that cover them, nothing has to always be black and white and always the same ways. Rutherford made some fantastic moves to win two cups. Brilliant. He has also made some horrible moves the past two years chasing one after the other. I am not including the Kessel trade in this, that was an inevitability the moment he was acquired by the Pens.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Put some of the savings towards Corey Perry and I like it.

No, he’s waaay too slow. He has had a great career but he’s pretty much done at this point.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Actually it’s a heck of a return, that young goalie is really good

 

[Pitt1992]

No, he’s waaay too slow. He has had a great career but he’s pretty much done at this point.

Than he’s a perfect fit,and hey we don’t have to trade a first for him

 

[UptownPrivileges]

I'm happy,Pens get a 25 yrs old who will play defense and has some speed, Then there's a few bucks to play with at FA time,great trade

 

[BuffetParrothead]

 

[pittdan77]

Kessel has a penchant to be lazy. Toronto fans told us so from day one. Pens got two cups out of him. Now he's gone. Life goes on in the NHL.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Kessel has a penchant to be lazy. Toronto fans told us so from day one. Pens got two cups out of him. Now he's gone. Life goes on in the NHL.

Look, the guy is a great talent, or was. The fact that he scored, what like 3 even strength goals over the last 40 games? That is insane. And yes, he is "lazy" and fitness is definitely not a priority.

But it is more than just that. I have been told (insiders) that during some drills or even meetings on the ice, Phil chooses to not participate, just skates around shooting pucks at the other end of the ice. His unwillingness to do simple things, he had a career low in shots last year, he has always been a "perimeter" player, but it has been exaggerated lately.

 

[buckage]

Fire this idiot. JR is a dolt.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Fire this idiot. JR is a dolt.

View embedded media

6 years for this ham and egger.... He's lost his mind.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

6 years for this ham and egger.... He's lost his mind.

Honestly, any contract after 3 years, does it matter?

 

[JD1976]

Fire this idiot. JR is a dolt.

View embedded media

What you don’t take into account is what was the market for Tanev? I’m sure JR didn’t want to go 6 years, but if other teams were willing to go long term, and the Pens like the player enough, they are going to offer it. At 3.5m AAV, it won’t be hard to trade him if things don’t work out. It would be a different story at 4 or 5m/year.

 

[JD1976]

Honestly, any contract after 3 years, does it matter?

Agreed. As I commented above, 6 years at 3.5m won’t be hard to shed via trade if they need.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Agreed. As I commented above, 6 years at 3.5m won’t be hard to shed via trade if they need.

Yeah, when you see contracts like this, you also wonder about another lockout on the horizon, and then they come back and teams's get amnesty on these types of contracts.

Secondly, in about 3 years, hopefully not sooner, this franchise going to have to blow it all up anyways.....likely as the Letang and Malkin contracts end and Sid is in his mid 30's.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Kessel has a penchant to be lazy. Toronto fans told us so from day one. Pens got two cups out of him. Now he's gone. Life goes on in the NHL.

The Toronto people grossly undersold what Phil Kessel brought to the table. To hear them tell it, he was a locker room cancer who was wildly overrated and primarily responsible for their struggles and that he/we would never win anything with him on the roster.

Uh, two Stanley Cups later, wrong on all counts! Also, he is arguably the most popular personality in that locker room. In fact, that’s one of the reasons why he needed to go!

However, he probably did become content and it probably was time to move on. Honestly, he’s not the only veteran player who has become fat and happy as he has gotten older. Geno, for example, was a far worse player last year than Kessel. In fact, I think Geno has largely escaped a lot of the much deserved criticism that should’ve been hurled his way.

People were bitching and moaning about Kessel and Letang a lot last year. However, the truth is that Malkin was far worse than both of those guys last year.

Not even close.

Being an important part of three Stanley Cup winners has a way of insulating guys from criticism — even when it is very clearly well deserved.

However, if you look at it objectively, of all of the star players on the team – as defined by guys making north of $5 million per year – Malkin was probably the worst of the bunch — by a mile!

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to trade Geno either. He is still a hell of a talented player and I would definitely bet on him having a bounce back year. However, I’m also not interested in pretending that he was anything other than mediocre for most of last year.

That’s why this trade was made – to try to get #71 back to where they need him to be. They need him driving offense and taking control of games. He is still young and skilled enough to do that. However, is he hungry enough? That’s the real question here.

Malkin MUST play harder and be more committed in all three zones than he was in 2018-19 or it’s simply not going to work and he will be out the door next off-season.

 

[ratking17]

The Toronto people grossly undersold what Phil Kessel brought to the table. To hear them tell it, he was a locker room cancer who was wildly overrated and primarily responsible for their struggles and dad he/we would never win anything.

Two Stanley Cups later, wrong on all counts!

However, she probably did become content and it probably was time to move on. Honestly, he’s not the only veteran player who has become fat and happy as he has gotten older. Geno, for example, was a far worse player last year than Kessel. In fact, I think Geno has largely escaped a lot of the much deserved criticism that should’ve been hurled his way.

Being an important part of three Stanley Cup winners has a way of insulating guys from criticism — even when it is very clearly well deserved.

However, if you look at it objectively, of all of the star players on the team – as defined by guys making north of $5 million per year – Malkin was probably the worst of the bunch — by a mile!

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to trade Geno either. I would bet on him having a bounce back year. However, I’m also not interested in pretending that he was anything other than mediocre for most of last year.

That’s why this trade was made – to try to get #71 back to where they need him to be. They need him driving offense and taking control of games. He is still young and skilled enough to do that. However, is he hungry enough? That’s the real question here.

Malkin MUST play harder and be more committed in all three zones than he was in 2018-19 or it’s simply not going to work and he will be out the door next off-season.

This take is 1000% correct. The ceiling is higher for malkin and as a center he needs to improve his game on both sides. He needs to cut down on silly penalties especially in the offensive zone. The Kessel move was a warning that if the players dont shape up, everyone is expendable.

This is one rumor that I heard about malkin indirectly but not living in Pittsburgh I dont know the truth of the matter. But I heard kessel might have been teaching geno the fine art of rivers casino late into the night on gameday as well.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

What you don’t take into account is what was the market for Tanev? I’m sure JR didn’t want to go 6 years, but if other teams were willing to go long term, and the Pens like the player enough, they are going to offer it. At 3.5m AAV, it won’t be hard to trade him if things don’t work out. It would be a different story at 4 or 5m/year.

Guys like this aren't commanding 6 year contracts. They want to trade Rust (same price, twice the player) to try and unload other stupid long deals like they just agreed to with this guy.

 

[goalieman]

Some Penguin Thoughts ........

- The trades and acquisitions the Pens have made from late last season (before the trade deadline) until now have made the team faster, younger, given them more 200' players who will be harder to play against and who should be able to play with more structure, and appear to be players who are extremely enthusiastic about being here in whatever role they will be used.

- It will be very interesting to see what line combinations will be used as there is a lot of flexibility in the lineup. I think the bottom six are going to be better and we will be able to role four lines with more success.

- The Pens now only have about $1.6 million dollars of cap space after the Tanev acquisition today and they need to sign, with raises, three RFA's (Blueger/Pettersson/ZAR) so another deal almost assuredly will be made to free up more cap space ...... ? Rust, Bjugstad, Hornqvist, ZAR, or someone else ..... they would like to get rid of JJ but that may be difficult.

- Going to be hard to replace the scoring of Kessel but hopefully some others can step up and hopefully we'll be harder to play against and give up fewer goals.

- Galchenyuk is a good skater with a very good wrist shot and good hands around the net .... he can play on the power play and expect he may be on the second PP unit ...... he has been poor defensively and that needs to improve but he at least appears to give some effort defensively .... I think he will be given a chance to play on the top six, we'll see how that works out.

- Tanev is a very fast skater, tough, had his best season offensively this past season and improved quite a bit ...... I'm hopeful that he will improve our bottom six as he has been described as hard to play against ...... he is also a very good penalty killer which should be helpful ...... I think he can improve the team in his specific role ..... the question is his contract (salary and length) and is he worth it ...... time will tell .......

- The other thing about Tanev is that he is trained by Gary Roberts and when asked to describe Tanev, Roberts described him as "determined" and "ultra-fit".

- Looks like they have to do something with Tristan Jarry or they will lose him through waivers this coming season ...... would expect them to trade him for a draft pick or as part of a larger deal unless there are some unforeseen circumstances with their goalies.

- Mike Sullivan's contract ends at the end of the 2019-2020 season ...... what do you do with him, sign him over the summer or wait until December and see what the team is doing, etc. ?

-Really looking forward to next season !

 

[ratking17]

You sign sully to a 4 yr extension immediately

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Some Penguin Thoughts ........

- The trades and acquisitions the Pens have made from late last season (before the trade deadline) until now have made the team faster, younger, given them more 200' players who will be harder to play against and who should be able to play with more structure, and appear to be players who are extremely enthusiastic about being here in whatever role they will be used.

- It will be very interesting to see what line combinations will be used as there is a lot of flexibility in the lineup. I think the bottom six are going to be better and we will be able to role four lines with more success.

- The Pens now only have about $1.6 million dollars of cap space after the Tanev acquisition today and they need to sign, with raises, three RFA's (Blueger/Pettersson/ZAR) so another deal almost assuredly will be made to free up more cap space ...... ? Rust, Bjugstad, Hornqvist, ZAR, or someone else ..... they would like to get rid of JJ but that may be difficult.

- Going to be hard to replace the scoring of Kessel but hopefully some others can step up and hopefully we'll be harder to play against and give up fewer goals.

- Galchenyuk is a good skater with a very good wrist shot and good hands around the net .... he can play on the power play and expect he may be on the second PP unit ...... he has been poor defensively and that needs to improve but he at least appears to give some effort defensively .... I think he will be given a chance to play on the top six, we'll see how that works out.

- Tanev is a very fast skater, tough, had his best season offensively this past season and improved quite a bit ...... I'm hopeful that he will improve our bottom six as he has been described as hard to play against ...... he is also a very good penalty killer which should be helpful ...... I think he can improve the team in his specific role ..... the question is his contract (salary and length) and is he worth it ...... time will tell .......

- The other thing about Tanev is that he is trained by Gary Roberts and when asked to describe Tanev, Roberts described him as "determined" and "ultra-fit".

- Looks like they have to do something with Tristan Jarry or they will lose him through waivers this coming season ...... would expect them to trade him for a draft pick or as part of a larger deal unless there are some unforeseen circumstances with their goalies.

- Mike Sullivan's contract ends at the end of the 2019-2020 season ...... what do you do with him, sign him over the summer or wait until December and see what the team is doing, etc. ?

-Really looking forward to next season !

Yeah I am excited right now. I do expect one more decent sized move involving either Rust or Bjugstad, still am not sold on the blueline.

I like Galchenyuk playing for a contract and now with some talent around him. He has scored 30 goals a few years ago. Tanev is interesting, he is that "difficult to play against' type of player who shines in 7 game series.

All in all, I thought Rutherford did well considering the circumstances. Do I like 6 years for Tanev? No, of course not. And I know this, I am not worried about the Pens in 2024. They will be in a much different place than they are now.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Do I like 6 years for Tanev? No, of course not. And I know this, I am not worried about the Pens in 2024. They will be in a much different place than they are now.

As will the league. Right now $3.5 million is approximately the average salary per player if your team spends to the cap. If things continue on their current trajectory (past performance is no guarantee of future returns) then six years from now a $3.5 million per season salary is going to be well below average.

To me six years is too long for anything other than a star. But six years starting at a league average salary and declining down from there really isn't worth getting too worked up over either.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

As will the league. Right now $3.5 million is approximately the average salary per player if your team spends to the cap. If things continue on their current trajectory (past performance is no guarantee of future returns) then six years from now a $3.5 million per season salary is going to be well below average.

To me six years is too long for anything other than a star. But six years starting at a league average salary and declining down from there really isn't worth getting too worked up over either.

Which truth is-
Same is true of jack Johnson.
His average salary is pretty much what you’d expect - the angst was the years which isn’t worth being upset about- as it’s mostly meaningless

 

[buckage]

Honestly, any contract after 3 years, does it matter?

It's the money

 

[haberton13]

Call it what it is, a contract dump for mediocre return. The Pens are worse after this trade.

But it is a horrible salary dump since Alex G makes 4.9 million per year.

 

[President Stache]

Galchenyuk should fit in quite well on Malkin's line. He is a Russian speaker, 25 years old, 6 - 1 207 pounds, does not have pressure to be the best player on the team, and motivated by entering the end of his contract.

He never played with great talent around him and will probably get more than 50 points next year. He scores a lot of goals within 5 feet of the net but can also shoot well from the outside.

Hopefully the coaching staff can help him to not only play better defensively but also elevate Malkin's game.

View embedded media

Twitter was blowing up negatively about this trade, but I think it sounded very good. Im not a huge Pens fan or anything, but Kessel played well for us, but was always a low plus/minus guy, he is 32, makes a lot of money now. just a scorer. To get the #3 pick of the draft a few years ago sounds good. ... at the very least it isnt a horrible trade on the face.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

for what situation the Pens were in, the return they got for Kessel was somewhat surprising. Again, look at what happened with PK Subban and the marginal return the Predators got for him.

 

[JD1976]

It’s amazing Kessel has been as productive as he has been with his questionable fitness and athletic ability. It’s part of his charm with fans, but it’s also why he reached a shelf life with each of the three organizations he has been with — and those are three high-profile hockey markets (BOS, TOR, PIT). You have to think the cliff is going to hit him hard once it comes and you don’t want to be the team left holding his salary.

 

[JD1976]

for what situation the Pens were in, the return they got for Kessel was somewhat surprising. Again, look at what happened with PK Subban and the marginal return the Predators got for him.

And when you consider that the Penguins really only had one team they could negotiate with (maybe a second if you believe Vegas was in play at one point), it’s not a bad return to get an NHL player and a d-man who instantly becomes your #1 prospect.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Alex Gusev? Would ya?

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

It’s amazing Kessel has been as productive as he has been with his questionable fitness and athletic ability. It’s part of his charm with fans, but it’s also why he reached a shelf life with each of the three organizations he has been with — and those are three high-profile hockey markets (BOS, TOR, PIT). You have to think the cliff is going to hit him hard once it comes and you don’t want to be the team left holding his salary.

But is his fitness actually questionable?

He’s really fast and never misses a game.

It just possible that his body shape is just what it is

 

[JD1976]

But is his fitness actually questionable?

He’s really fast and never misses a game.

It just possible that his body shape is just what it is

That's fair. He is durable for sure, but the teams he has been with (Penguins included) still have had concerns about his fitness and strength. Maybe he's just that rare exception these days. He is definitely a throwback.

 

[Pitt1992]

off topic but bartolo colon was always criticized about his weight and work ethic but he was always reliable and durable for the most part and pitched into his 40's, the idea you have to be slim and built in today's sports is ridiculous some peoples body just arent

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

But is his fitness actually questionable?

He’s really fast and never misses a game.

It just possible that his body shape is just what it is

Yeah, I think the criticisms are/were valid and here's why.

First off, the "never misses a game" has actually worked as a detriment as in the last month of 2018, it was obvious he had some kind of wrist/hand injury and rarely shot the puck and tailed off at the end. Perhaps some rest could have helped heal it for the playoffs.

Secondly, he has tailed off during the 2nd half of the past two years, especially this year. His 1st 3 months (39 games) he had 17-29-46 points, 10 Even Strength goals. His last 3+ months (43 games) he had 10 goals-17 assists 37 points, was a minus 18 and only had 5 ES goals since January 1. I am sorry, for Bryan Rust that is not good but it is acceptable. For Phil, that is awful.

So I think it is taking a toll. Phil is definitely one guy, if he is not scoring, he is of no use to you. He doesn't check, he doesn't play great defense, so......

I mean, I like and respect what he did here. It is okay to acknowledge he was a good player here, an integral part of 2 Cup winning teams but also definitely needed to go.

 

[goalieman]

Alex Gusev? Would ya?

Nikita Gusev ?

Several teams appear to be interested .... what would you be willing to give up for him ?

Both the Pens and Vegas need cap space so a deal between those two teams seems unlikely unless both teams make other moves in addition..