OT: Hockey in Arizona is over… for now

[HailToPitt725]

Good luck. There is a lot of competition in Georgia for sports entertainment, with college football, pro football, an MLS franchise that is highly attended, MLB, NBA, and NASCAR.

Like I said, I could make an argument that a pro basketball franchise would also succeed in Pittsburgh if it is done differently this time around, too.

Again, that’s a false equivalent because as the sixth-largest media market, Atlanta is the largest market without all four major U.S. sports leagues. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh is smallest market with three or more franchises.

The demographics indicate that Atlanta should easily be able to support an NHL team in its current state. They also indicate that Pittsburgh can barely support the teams it does have, let alone a new NBA franchise. That’s why it’d be more than just “doing things differently” when it comes to Pittsburgh.

 

[happjack]

Again, that’s a false equivalent because as the sixth-largest media market, Atlanta is the largest market without all four major U.S. sports leagues. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh is smallest market with three or more franchises.

The demographics indicate that Atlanta should easily be able to support an NHL team in its current state. They also indicate that Pittsburgh can barely support the teams it does have, let alone a new NBA franchise. That’s why it’d be more than just “doing things differently” when it comes to Pittsburgh.

The only people who’ll be going to the Atlanta 3.0’s games are transplants from the Northeast and Upper Mid-West when their team is in town. The team is never going to draw people born in the south and will fail just like the others.

 

[HailToPitt725]

The only people who’ll be going to the Atlanta 3.0’s games are transplants from the Northeast and Upper Mid-West when their team is in town. The team is never going to draw people born in the south and will fail just like the others.

But couldn’t you say the same thing about the Canes, or the Lightning, or the Panthers, or the Preds, etc.? Heck, people thought Vegas was going to flop. Why is Atlanta different than the rest?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

All that's left is getting rid of the population problem ...

They will come from all corners of the Great State of West Virginia for Wheeling NHL hockey. Plus Ohio is right across the river. They will be the team for Eastern Ohio.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The only people who’ll be going to the Atlanta 3.0’s games are transplants from the Northeast and Upper Mid-West when their team is in town. The team is never going to draw people born in the south and will fail just like the others.

I dont understand why the MLS has crazy good there though.

 

[Upg bobcat]

But couldn’t you say the same thing about the Canes, or the Lightning, or the Panthers, or the Preds, etc.? Heck, people thought Vegas was going to flop. Why is Atlanta different than the rest?

Are the Panthers doing that well? I heard rumors in recent years about potentially moving them. Maybe there isn't much momentum there, but I've heard rumblings.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Again, that’s a false equivalent because as the sixth-largest media market, Atlanta is the largest market without all four major U.S. sports leagues. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh is smallest market with three or more franchises.

The demographics indicate that Atlanta should easily be able to support an NHL team in its current state. They also indicate that Pittsburgh can barely support the teams it does have, let alone a new NBA franchise. That’s why it’d be more than just “doing things differently” when it comes to Pittsburgh.

So then I guess the demographics are overrated because despite giving every indication that the NHL should work in Atlanta, it hasn't. And on the flip side, Pittsburgh can support its teams even without the right demographics.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Are the Panthers doing that well? I heard rumors in recent years about potentially moving them. Maybe there isn't much momentum there, but I've heard rumblings.

They definitely struggled in the 2010s, but I think those rumors have been quelled for now with their Cup run. Long-term, the biggest question is a new arena, preferably one that’s owned by the team. IMO, I wonder if it’d benefit them to move to Ft. Lauderdale versus staying in Sunrise.

 

[TitoBeagle]

Wheeling is a booming market. They were ready to step in and host Pitt Basketball during Covid and also May Madness but the NCAA stupidly played in front of no people in March

Hysterical. Are u just busting balls Wheeling is a shit hole where raccoons rule the night.

Hell why not Johnstown another well known shithole…..

 

[HailToPitt725]

So then I guess the demographics are overrated because despite giving every indication that the NHL should work in Atlanta, it hasn't. And on the flip side, Pittsburgh can support its teams even without the right demographics.

But again, the point I’m making is how the demographics have changed since the Thrashers relocated. They were not the sixth-largest market in 2011.

I think we can just agree to disagree. That’s OK. We’ll have to come back to this in ~10 years.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I dont understand why the MLS has crazy good there though.

Yeah I mean they were drawing 90k plus to MLS games. They have their 4th major franchise.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yeah I mean they were drawing 90k plus to MLS games. They have their 4th major franchise.

Right but you'd think soccer demographics would be similar to hockey demographics (ie young, suburban, upper middle class, white). But hockey couldn't have gone worse in Atlanta and soccer has couldn't have gone better. They sell out the Falcons stadium for a glorified rec league but cant support world-class hockey. Very strange.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Right but you'd think soccer demographics would be similar to hockey demographics (ie young, suburban, upper middle class, white). But hockey couldn't have gone worse in Atlanta and soccer has couldn't have gone better. They sell out the Falcons stadium for a glorified rec league but cant support world-class hockey. Very strange.

Isn't Atlanta notorious for having horrible traffic? It seems like a city best suited for a sport with one game a week, on the weekends (i.e., soccer) as opposed to a few games a week, some during the week (i.e., hockey).

I guess that's why they think building the stadium in the burbs will make a difference this time around, although I would think that putting a stadium in say the northern suburbs will cost you a large number of fans in the southern suburbs.

 

[happjack]

Isn't Atlanta notorious for having horrible traffic? It seems like a city best suited for a sport with one game a week, on the weekends (i.e., soccer) as opposed to a few games a week, some during the week (i.e., hockey).

I guess that's why they think building the stadium in the burbs will make a difference this time around, although I would think that putting a stadium in say the northern suburbs will cost you a large number of fans in the southern suburbs.

Atlanta traffic is nuts! One of the many reasons the Coyotes failed is that they moved out to Glendale and people who lived in other suburbs didn't want to trek over there.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Isn't Atlanta notorious for having horrible traffic? It seems like a city best suited for a sport with one game a week, on the weekends (i.e., soccer) as opposed to a few games a week, some during the week (i.e., hockey).

I guess that's why they think building the stadium in the burbs will make a difference this time around, although I would think that putting a stadium in say the northern suburbs will cost you a large number of fans in the southern suburbs.

I dont know but I doubt its hockey weeknights that were the problem and I think for a fringe sport like hockey, its a terrible idea to build an arena in the suburbs because people from the other parts of the metro area arent going to go there on weeknights or even weekends. Atlanta, maybe its worth another try and I only say that due to MLS's success but Phoenix, they need to stay as far away from that city as possible. It cant possibly work there. Everyone sees the large population numbers but they fail to realize its only 41% white, who would be your hockey demographic. That's still enough if those white folks were hockey fans but they arent.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

I dont know but I doubt its hockey weeknights that were the problem and I think for a fringe sport like hockey, its a terrible idea to build an arena in the suburbs because people from the other parts of the metro area arent going to go there on weeknights or even weekends. Atlanta, maybe its worth another try and I only say that due to MLS's success but Phoenix, they need to stay as far away from that city as possible. It cant possibly work there. Everyone sees the large population numbers but they fail to realize its only 41% white, who would be your hockey demographic. That's still enough if those white folks were hockey fans but they arent.

Atlanta is also the one large city where college sports are as big if not bigger, than their pro counterparts.

 

[pittdan77]

If anything the nhl should contract down to 24. The game is diluted and AHL level guys aren’t exactly great to watch

Yeah, this. Get rid of the garage league stuff and make the league more about skill with less teams and you might actually have something interesting.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Atlanta is also the one large city where college sports are as big if not bigger, than their pro counterparts.

Yea but MLS succeeding and NHL failing is mind boggling. I posted on the other board that it was a terrible decision for the MLS to expand to Atlanta since its a terrible pro sports city. I was crazy wrong. Atlanta is towards the top of the world in attendance and MLS sucks, relatively speaking.

 

[happjack]

Yea but MLS succeeding and NHL failing is mind boggling. I posted on the other board that it was a terrible decision for the MLS to expand to Atlanta since its a terrible pro sports city. I was crazy wrong. Atlanta is towards the top of the world in attendance and MLS sucks, relatively speaking.

How is it mind boggling? Atlanta has affluent, upper middle class and middle class suburbs where kids play soccer, transplanted younger folks who grew up playing soccer, a decent immigrant population from soccer loving countries, and a MLS franchise that seems to be run leaps and bounds better than the rest. Also, 17 home games compared to 41.

Outside of hockey fans who moved to the Atlanta area, there's zero interest in the sport. The Lighting and Panthers were able to survive their early years because they were located in places with tons of retired older people with money from the Northeast and Upper Midwest who went when their team was in town, Atlanta doesn't have that luxury.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

How is it mind boggling? Atlanta has affluent, upper middle class and middle class suburbs where kids play soccer, transplanted younger folks who grew up playing soccer, a decent immigrant population from soccer loving countries, and a MLS franchise that seems to be run leaps and bounds better than the rest.

Outside of hockey fans who moved to the Atlanta area, there's zero interest in the sport. The Lighting and Panthers were able to survive their early years because they were located in places with tons of retired older people with money from the Northeast and Upper Midwest who went when their team was in town, Atlanta doesn't have that luxury.

Plus the Canes and Lightening have won and played for Stanley Cups. Atlanta never had that kind of success.

 

[pittdan77]

Outside of hockey fans who moved to the Atlanta area, there's zero interest in the sport. The Lighting and Panthers were able to survive their early years because they were located in places with tons of retired older people with money from the Northeast and Upper Midwest who went when their team was in town, Atlanta doesn't have that luxury.

Kind of how Atlanta's NFL team worked for a long time. Their attendance had a very Pitt vibe to it. Depended on who the visitor was.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

How is it mind boggling? Atlanta has affluent, upper middle class and middle class suburbs where kids play soccer, transplanted younger folks who grew up playing soccer, a decent immigrant population from soccer loving countries, and a MLS franchise that seems to be run leaps and bounds better than the rest. Also, 17 home games compared to 41.

Outside of hockey fans who moved to the Atlanta area, there's zero interest in the sport. The Lighting and Panthers were able to survive their early years because they were located in places with tons of retired older people with money from the Northeast and Upper Midwest who went when their team was in town, Atlanta doesn't have that luxury.

Because Atlanta is a terrible pro sports town. And because the hockey demographic is the same as soccer for the most part. NHL is world-class. MLS is like the 20th best league in the world. For Atlanta to rank in Top 25 in the world in attendance but cant even come close to supporting hockey is mind boggling. How many folks in Las Vegas and Seattle grew up watching the NHL? 22?

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Kind of how Atlanta's NFL team worked for a long time. Their attendance had a very Pitt vibe to it. Depended on who the visitor was.

I was at a Steelers/Falcons game at the old Georgia Dome and it was literally 75-25 Steelers fans.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

One of the many reasons the Coyotes failed is that they moved out to Glendale and people who lived in other suburbs didn't want to trek over there.

One of the down sides to not paying your rent is that it gets harder and harder to find people to rent you a building.