No, that's simply wrong. If you want to say Paterno should be held to a higher standard, within the Penn St. hierarchy, I'm fine with that. In the outside world, no, that's simply wrong. In the outside world, they are all adults, and have an equal responsibility. McQueary was there, in the room, and did nothing to save the kid. He didn't call the police. He didn't beat Sandusky's ass. If nothing else, McQueary could have played dumb, and acted like he was just coming to get the kid for lunch or something. Anything to get the kid out of that situation. But McQueary didn't do that. All he did was go to Paterno after the fact. McQueary didn't speak up or alert police for 10 years, even when he saw that nothing was being done. You are treating McQueary like a child. He isn't. McQueary knows good and well that the authorities needed to be alerted. It doesn't matter if he's an assistant coach, a professor, a groundskeeper, a janitor, or whatever. In the outside world, he's an adult, and has a responsibility to do what we would expect of any other adult.
OT: McQueary helps accident victim
- Thread starter USN_Panther
- Start date
No, that's simply wrong. If you want to say Paterno should be held to a higher standard, within the Penn St. hierarchy, I'm fine with that. In the outside world, no, that's simply wrong. In the outside world, they are all adults, and have an equal responsibility. McQueary was there, in the room, and did nothing to save the kid. He didn't call the police. He didn't beat Sandusky's ass. If nothing else, McQueary could have played dumb, and acted like he was just coming to get the kid for lunch or something. Anything to get the kid out of that situation. But McQueary didn't do that. All he did was go to Paterno after the fact. McQueary didn't speak up or alert police for 10 years, even when he saw that nothing was being done. You are treating McQueary like a child. He isn't. McQueary knows good and well that the authorities needed to be alerted. It doesn't matter if he's an assistant coach, a professor, a groundskeeper, a janitor, or whatever. In the outside world, he's an adult, and has a responsibility to do what we would expect of any other adult.
Don't forget Joe's first words from the Phone Call......I Don't Have A Job For You!!!!
Later after being told, Mike was hired and after it all came out let go with a slight buyout, Joe was fired and then a Buyout Settlement. Mike won being a Whistle-Blower and credited by thr Judge for changing Penn State.
Still, McQueary and Paterno did report it, and told the truth of what McQueary saw, and what Joe told the truth what was told to him by McQueary in the Grand Jury....to this very day Curely, Schultz and Spanier still say they were told it was Horse Play!
However, it was the Emails Freeh Investigation that exposed them all in 2001 and they thought they were one in 2004 when changed PSU Email Systems! It was Freeh that found those Emails well after the Grand Jury Testimonies and it was Schultz Secretary that told Freeh Schultz had them. This got Spanier Indicted well after C & S too. Joe was dying by then and shortly after gone.
What makes it all complicated is investigations dating back to 1976 found out after 2011 and more Revelations will be released soon as Civil Lawsuits continued or some documents now an be Unsealed??
"topdecktiger, post: 1868328, member: 3806"]No, that's simply wrong. If you want to say Paterno should be held to a higher standard, within the Penn St. hierarchy, I'm fine with that. In the outside world, no, that's simply wrong. In the outside world, they are all adults, and have an equal responsibility. McQueary was there, in the room, and did nothing to save the kid. He didn't call the police. He didn't beat Sandusky's ass. If nothing else, McQueary could have played dumb, and acted like he was just coming to get the kid for lunch or something. Anything to get the kid out of that situation. But McQueary didn't do that. All he did was go to Paterno after the fact. McQueary didn't speak up or alert police for 10 years, even when he saw that nothing was being done. You are treating McQueary like a child. He isn't. McQueary knows good and well that the authorities needed to be alerted. It doesn't matter if he's an assistant coach, a professor, a groundskeeper, a janitor, or whatever. In the outside world, he's an adult, and has a responsibility to do what we would expect of any other adult.
You are one of the best contributors to the Truth and Lair and you correct sir. The Facts are McQueary is attacked by many for not doing anything, then hated by the PSU Cult Dolts for reporting it to Paterno as instructed by his Father, and reviled by Penn State Trustee Establishment for challenging his dismissal as a Whistle-Blower to where they hate him also, and then like you say the outside world won't give him a pass either, but all ignored that mike had no job in 2001, but was hired later, and all remain silent from 2001 until 2008 when the investigation began, by that time Sandusky had abused 3 more children????
No one wants to talk about 2002 to 2008 whereby all were doing Great except for some Children Victims????
You are one of the best contributors to the Truth and Lair and you correct sir. The Facts are McQueary is attacked by many for not doing anything, then hated by the PSU Cult Dolts for reporting it to Paterno as instructed by his Father, and reviled by Penn State Trustee Establishment for challenging his dismissal as a Whistle-Blower to where they hate him also, and then like you say the outside world won't give him a pass either, but all ignored that mike had no job in 2001, but was hired later, and all remain silent from 2001 until 2008 when the investigation began, by that time Sandusky had abused 3 more children????
No one wants to talk about 2002 to 2008 whereby all were doing Great except for some Children Victims????
This is what everybody overlooks. If Paterno was just a rogue coach, and everyone else was doing the right thing, Paterno would have been dealt with years ago. The problem is, everyone else was in on all of this. The trustee who quit last week is a perfect example. The problem goes a lot deeper than just one or two guys. It's system-wide.
And this is why McQueary acted as he did. Look up Vicky Triponey. Paterno had things set up where he was police, judge and jury for all things football related. He made this very clear with the PSU administration, and then when the conflict over who handles discipline matters for football players arose, look who was fired. McQueary acted just as he was trained to do. "Call Joe".
We as adults outside of the PSU world do give far too much credit to Nitters for basic adult functions. We have known for years that those people are not normal so functioning at or above the level of a reasonable child is the standard we hold them to.
As stated, you are correct more than anyone, knows how an University Works, and exactly on point with still some more to come out as Civil Lawsuits continue. You are Spot On Dead To Rights and Exactly Right!
The Prosecutors and Investigators will also be writing their Books after retirements and some revelation will be how the investigations were delayed and why based on Children Recanting because Sandusky got to them, not using the PAOAG Child's Predator Unit for reasons not revealed, Paterno kept trying to invite Investigators to Dinners instead of answering all questions as they kept telling him to get a Lawyer, Spanier, Curley, Schultz surrounding Penn State not to cooperate with nay investigations, and they got used to protecting Penn State Football with lots of practice after football player after football player got arrested, and still nobody cared what was happening to prior or current or future children victims and if anyone dare they would be subject to intimidation based on previous people being fired.
It was exactly as the 400 PSU Employees told Freeh Investigators and they are keeping that under seal and those Employees can't be fired or they will file Whistle-blowers Lawsuits too! Even PS4RS know it, but it is still about bringing back Paterno Statue and then saying he did nothing wrong? they never mention Title IX-Clery Act Findings or Fines, call PMA Insurance Documents Allegations, disclaim by parsing Curley & Schultz Testimony, and The Paterno Report being wrong is more silent then ever.
Everyone forgets about this listing and all can be confirmed by an Indpendent Google Check as well Criminal Web Report and Title IX Clery Act cited some, while some have been expunged as allow by Law:
Penn State 2000-2008 Jail & Bail Graduation Rates: 80% Bailout!
1. Maurice Humphrey, Arrest, Assault & Prison Guilty
2. Maurice Humphrey - Guilty Probation Violation
3. Maurice Humphrey - Fake ID Probation Violation Guilty
4. Tyler Reed, Drunk In Public Summary Charge Guilty
5. Andrew Richardson, Drunk In Public Summary Charge Guilty
6. Rashard Casey, Arrest, Assault, Dismissed
7. Anwar Phillips, Arrest, Assault, Dismissed
8. T.C. Cosby, Arrest, Assault, Acquitted
9. Michael Robinson, Ice-Rink Fight Summary Charge
10. Lavon Chisley, Arrest, Sexual Assault, Dismissed
11. Paul Jefferson, Drunk In Public Summary Charge Guilty
12. Ed Johnson, Ice-rink fight Summary Charge Guilty
13. Matthew Rice, Ice-rink fight Summary Charge Guilty
14. John Bronson, Arrest, Assault, Dismissed
15. Jeremy Kapinos, Drunk In Public Summary Charge
16. Tom McHugh, Hitting A Woman Summary Charge
17. Tony Johnson, Arrest, DUI Guilty
18. Richard Cheek, Arrest, Stolen Credit Card Guilty
19. Yaacov Yisreal, DUI, Guilty
20. Dan Drogan, DUI Leaving Accident, Guilty
21. Dethrell Garcia, DUI, Guilty
22. Scott Paxson, Criminal Mischief, Summary Charge Guilty
23. E.Z. Smith, Drunk In Public Summary Charge Guilty
24. R.J. Luke, Arrest Assault, Acquitted
25. Damone Jones, Unknown Charges Dismissed From School
26. Mike Sothern, Terroristic Disorderly Criminal Mischief Guilty
27. Mike Sothern Criminal Mischief Expelled Guilty
28. EZ Smith Criminal Mischief Summary Charge Guilty
29. Scott Paxson Criminal Mischief Summary Charge Guilty
30. Tyler Reed Criminal Mischief Summary Charge Guilty
31. Andrew Richardson Criminal Mischief Summary Charge Guilty
32. Ed Johnson Sexual Misconduct Arrest Guilty
34. Dan Connor Criminal Mischief Phone Summary Charge Guilty
35. Nolan MCready Criminal Mischief Phone Summary Charge Guilty
36. Jim Kanuch Criminal Mischief Summary Phone Charge Guilty
37. Paul Cronin Drunk In Public Summary Charge Guilty
38. Scott Paxson Sexual Assault & Aggravated Indecent Charge Guilty
39. Francis Claude Arrest At Bar Disorderly Conduct Guilty
40. Ed Johnson Failed Drug Test Condition Of Parole Guilty
41. Lavon Chisley Murder Charge Guilty Life Sentence
42. Anthony P. Scirrotto burglary, criminal trespass, criminal solicitation, simple assault, harassment. Trial Pending
43. Chris I. Baker burglary, criminal trespass criminal trespass, disorderly conduct, harassment. Guilty Simple Assault
44. Jerome A. Hayes criminal trespass, disorderly conduct, harassment. Dismissed
45. Justin King criminal trespass, disorderly conduct, harassment. Dismissed
46. Tyrell A. Sales criminal trespass, disorderly conduct, harassment Dismissed
47. Lydell R. Sargeant criminal trespass, disorderly conduct, harassment Dismissed
48. Andrew Quarless-Underage Drinking Guilty
49. Willie Harriot-Underage Drinking Guilty
50. Austin Scott Rape, Drugs Trial
51. Joe Suhey Underage Drinking Guilty
52. Ryan Breen Underage Drinking Guilty,
53. Joe Paterno Road Rage No Charges
54. Chris Baker felony aggravated assault, simple assault, disorderly conduct, summary harassment and stalking.
55. Navarro Bowman felony aggravated assault, simple assault, disorderly conduct, summary harassment and stalking, Guilty Disorderly Conduct Admission!
56. Knowledge Timmons, disorderly conduct and defiant trespass, Guilty Probation!
57. Chris Bell felony aggravated assault, simple assault disorderly conduct, summary harassment and stalking Pending
58. Phillip Taylor felony aggravated assault, simple assault disorderly conduct, summary harassment and stalking, Guilty Disorderly Conduct Admission!
59. Andrew Quarless Underage Drinking Guilty!
60. Chris Bell terroristic threats, simple assault, recklessly endangering another person, disorderly conduct and harassment. Pending
61. Jedediah Hill-criminal mischief and a summary disorderly conduct, Guilty
In Lieu Of Payment Of Damages!
It went higher by 2011? Clery Reports put out the details and allow a number of loopholes, but it was still largest fine in US Educational History. ESPN did a story on in Mid-2000s and Joe called it a Witch Hunt. The NCAA biggest problem was its Former Enforcement Staffers that never investigated a thing about Paterno or PSU Program. Even when they should have way back in 1996 with Curtis Enis Sports agent buying gifts? Later they decided to favor Paterno over Bobby Bowden 15 Wins by taking away Bowden's Wins over a campus online course FSU turned in, once he learned about it? The Big Ten Named B-10 Championship Trophy after Paterno but took it away since the Big Ten Sanctions. Nike named a Children Center after Joe since he was their first Shoe Contract and Nike hired People connected to Penn State
Since the Freeh Report Recommendations and NCAA Sanctions On Campus Oversight Monitor that help put in and approve of the Penn State Athletic Integrity 2012 Reforms....Many Professionals have been hired and many New Policies put in and now far less Athletes have been arrested or subject to discipline including 2 that missed the Rose Bowl.
Most importantly, Penn State New Athletic Integrity Policies all were introduced by saying not one Person, Coach or Employee will ever have Power over the University and all now must report and fully disclose all Business Dealings with Penn State or related Businesses. This includes Trustees and requires a thorough vetting by The Penn State Ethics and Compliance Department. No coach can be hired without approval from the athletic Integrity Officer. Judicial Affairs now applies to Football and all Athletes treated as regular students.
Penn State Trustees reversed many Athletic Integrity Policies & Ethical Procedures ignored between 1965 to 2011 and is now in full Compliance and these Policies & Procedures are being copied almost word for word at Baylor right now..
This alone will be one of the NCAA, Penn State and Freeh Defenses against Lawsuits filed against them. This is what is facing the Paterno's, PS4RS, Alumni, and Former Players Lawsuits since the Truth is an Absolute Defense.
They keep dragging Penn State Name into Shame and then Claim they are actually trying to save it, but that is so Lame today and will fall back on them. As stated above, one can't bring a Legacy back once thought pristine, given slogans, and in fact was covering up, not in compliance, and violated Laws that required Fines, Lost of Shared Bowl Funds, and many more Reforms to protect Children, Students, and Employees by the tyranny that once existed at Penn State University to protect such a Culture of Corruption that failed to protect many and directly led to Children Molestation being tolerated for Wins, Records, and Money!
The 409 Legacy built on Great Coaching & Strong Program also caused a 409 Clean Up that has been very expensive to the University, and some think that washes away the abuse somehow????
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McQueary could have called the police? You know the head of the campus police was just found guilty for not reporting the same incident to CYS (which was the absolute minimum he had to do) and didn't even order an investigation? Then again, maybe he would have sent the SWAT team over? Gotcha....
An anonymous tip is funnier. "Saw Jerry raping a kid in the Lasch coaches showers".....would have taken about thirty seconds to figure out who called that one in.
McQueary was the first person not related to a victim to stand up and do something. Only took almost thirty years, too. But yeah, what a jerk.....
What to do, and how to do it, way back in 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s when much of this Children Abuse and Domestic Abuse was just coming out, and no one wanted to talk about them let alone think about sexual abuse of children, it is so tough to judge using today's societal values against yesterdays reality when many of these laws were unknown, ignored, and victims kept them quiet due to shame as well.
Today, it is easier to judge and anyone accused has a very tough defense and even the arrest and charges are bad enough even if dismissed, dropped, and found made up, it forces them to file more charges or go to court to clear a name one wants brought again.
Not making any excuses, just pointing out we know far more today and Domestic Abuse & Child Abuse no longer get excused, and in fact puts one in the criminal Justice System and once there hard to get out and it works so slow for a long time to be decided.
Penn State Name will always carry Shame, but Penn State Athletic Integrity Reforms have done much to stop current or future protection of people not wins and money making. The Penn State Program is strong and in the Big Ten they will always make money anyhow but now can do it with real Athletic Compliance not just a slogan.
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Perhaps I wasn't clear but yes, that is what I meant and also that is why I referenced the fact that he prevailed under the whistle blower law.
Don't call the campus police. Call the city. Better yet, call the county sheriff. Call a child abuse hotline if you have to. There are plenty of options.
Um, no. Actually it wouldn't take 30 seconds to figure it out. Just go straight to the police and don't even fool with Paterno. If you are going to claim Sandusky would know it was McQueary, who the hell is he going to tell? If Sandusky says anything in response to McQueary, his whole cover is blown.
Being an adult means you have to sometimes stand up and do the right thing, regardless of the consequences. By the way, it's not like there were major consequences for McQueary. You guys act like Paterno is some mafia don who whacks anybody that turns state's evidence. The worst thing Paterno could do to McQueary is fire him. It's not like he would have a hard time finding another job. If somebody asks why he got fired, just say, "I reported a child molester to the police, and the school fired me." Trust me, that's not going to put a dent in his resume. By the way, how did McQueary's course of action actually work out for him? He's still not working at Penn St, and nobody else will hire him either, because he sat on the information for 10 years.
Sorry, you are just full of it with the McQueary business. He went along with it just like everyone else. You guys keep saying Paterno ran the entire university. Ok, well McQueary isn't an idiot. He knows that as well as you. Well, he also knows what would happen if he kept it "in house."
And that's why I'm arguing with you. When you get into the legal aspect, that's not within the Penn St hierarchy. McQueary won his case because Penn St lied about him during the cover up. He didn't win because they tried to stop him from reporting it or anything. He didn't do anything to report it to authorities. He just kicked it up to Paterno and washed his hands of it.
The reason Paterno has been justifiably vilified everywhere outside central Pennsylvania is because he spent 50 years as a sanctimonious, holier than thou prick who claimed the mantle as the most moral man in college sports.
No one in the Sandusky affair covered themselves in glory with their actions, but Pateno's entire career was spent telling anyone who would listen how honest and clean his program was while every other coach was a cheater and every other program was dirty.
And goes against the cult leader ? Never happen in the quest for football and 409.
yeah take the easier choice, why do the right thing when it might prevent you being home earlier to waste your time on the net or watching TV? that's not your friend or family member so who cares?
"topdecktiger, post: 1868565, member: 3806"Don't call the campus police. Call the city. Better yet, call the county sheriff. Call a child abuse hotline if you have to. There are plenty of options.
Not really, you can google several articles where the County Penn State is located the DA Gricar would often not prosecute or refer it to PAOAG since he said it was often a waste of time, no one would cooperate. It is part of what Freeh found to be the Culture of Penn State football Cover Ups. The 1998 Investigation showed that too. They told what Sandusky had admitted to but Gricar thought enough to investigate further. There a Analysis and Report by a Psychologists that said Sandusky exhibits signs of Pedophile but that was ignored as well. Going against Penn State crimes was also going against some of best Lawyers on retainer to protect any Player that got into trouble is outlined in the Clery Report and lists the Attorneys.
Um, no. Actually it wouldn't take 30 seconds to figure it out. Just go straight to the police and don't even fool with Paterno. If you are going to claim Sandusky would know it was McQueary, who the hell is he going to tell? If Sandusky says anything in response to McQueary, his whole cover is blown.
Again, easy said, hard to do, Children with Mothers went to Police and no one believed them, and even when they did in 2008, the Kid would say he made it up after Sandusky got to him buying him gifts and only when they found the second victim did they start believing the Kids, and then the Kids still denied it. It was by no means easy to do, The Second Mile was created for Trouble Kids in every County on Pennsylvania and run by Leading Members of the Community, Politicians, and Wealthy Celebrities and Contributors. They all loved Penn State Football too.
Being an adult means you have to sometimes stand up and do the right thing, regardless of the consequences.
Not if an adult was told something is 1970s and 80s and ignored the problem and felt there was no prnblem just an allegation made by a problem kid. Police will tell you the Pedophiles select the troubled children as prey not the well adjusted ones that would go to Parents. If nothing was done in 1970s, and again in 1980s, and then an investigation in 1998 resulted in no charges, by the time 2001 comes along with an eyewitness the 4 C, S, S, and P felt uncomfortable to report JS and Curley said he told JS go get help. Now if you do report it, and kids come out like Spotlight find out after publishing it, the next big question, you guys knew way back a decade ago and did nothing?????
If someone tells me you did something and I said why should I believe the kid after you tell me that kid is a problem child and your are helping him, it is perfectly understandable i would believe you over the kid and not believe his allegations.
If later you are investigated by Police and DA says no case you come back at me, and say see told you so, I was lied about I am the Victim, not the Kid???? why I am going to report you now that I know the DA checked it out and found nothing as a crime charge????
Finally, in 2001 again you are told and this time you tell the AD and all decided nothing enough to report???
By the way, it's not like there were major consequences for McQueary.
Agree, he was a recruiting coordinator from 2001 to 2003, but did get a coaching job at Wr Coach from 2004 to 2011.
You guys act like Paterno is some mafia don who whacks anybody that turns state's evidence.
The Freeh Report did say there a Air of Intimidation if anyone challenges the FB Program, Clery Act Report too. Janitors, Administrators, and 400 PSU Employee did talk about it but with the condition there names would be protected.
The worst thing Paterno could do to McQueary is fire him.It's not like he would have a hard time finding another job.
McQueary Preliminary Testimony before a Judge......
"Told him what he saw, said "what I saw was wrong." Said he needed advice. Father told him to come home right away."
McQueary called Paterno next morning between 7:30 a.m. to 8 a.m. Said: "Coach, I need to talk to you."
McQueary: "(Paterno) said 'if it's about a job, don't bother, I don't have one for you.' McQueary tells him it's not.
The rough positioning I would have described, but not in very much detail," McQueary said of what he told Paterno at his house.
Never said the words "anal intercourse" to Paterno "out of respect," McQueary said.
McQueary: Paterno needed to know since he was the head coach.
McQueary said Paterno told him: "Sorry you had to see that. You did the right thing."
Sometime after that, McQuery testified, Curley called him and he met with Curley and Schultz. He told them that "what I had seen was extremely sexual, extremely wrong," and they told him they would investigate. Later, they told him that they had reported the incident to The Second Mile and that Sandusky had been told to stay away from the football facility, though McQueary said Sandusky showed up later anyway. McQueary testified that the officials had told him not to discuss the incident.
In the cross-examination by Curley's attorney, Caroline Roberto, the judge would not allow questioning about a conversation McQueary reportedly had with Dr. Jonathan Dranov, his father's best friend, at his father's house after he left the football building. Pressed as to why he didn't use the term "anal sodomy" when relating the incident to Paterno, McQueary said, "Ma'am, you don't go to Coach Paterno and go in great detail about sexual acts," adding, "I would not have used the words 'anal intercourse.' I said 'extremely sexual act.'"
LINK:
http://deadspin.com/5868802/penn-st...stimony-some-kind-of-intercourse-was-going-on
Part II Below:
Not really, you can google several articles where the County Penn State is located the DA Gricar would often not prosecute or refer it to PAOAG since he said it was often a waste of time, no one would cooperate. It is part of what Freeh found to be the Culture of Penn State football Cover Ups. The 1998 Investigation showed that too. They told what Sandusky had admitted to but Gricar thought enough to investigate further. There a Analysis and Report by a Psychologists that said Sandusky exhibits signs of Pedophile but that was ignored as well. Going against Penn State crimes was also going against some of best Lawyers on retainer to protect any Player that got into trouble is outlined in the Clery Report and lists the Attorneys.
Um, no. Actually it wouldn't take 30 seconds to figure it out. Just go straight to the police and don't even fool with Paterno. If you are going to claim Sandusky would know it was McQueary, who the hell is he going to tell? If Sandusky says anything in response to McQueary, his whole cover is blown.
Again, easy said, hard to do, Children with Mothers went to Police and no one believed them, and even when they did in 2008, the Kid would say he made it up after Sandusky got to him buying him gifts and only when they found the second victim did they start believing the Kids, and then the Kids still denied it. It was by no means easy to do, The Second Mile was created for Trouble Kids in every County on Pennsylvania and run by Leading Members of the Community, Politicians, and Wealthy Celebrities and Contributors. They all loved Penn State Football too.
Being an adult means you have to sometimes stand up and do the right thing, regardless of the consequences.
Not if an adult was told something is 1970s and 80s and ignored the problem and felt there was no prnblem just an allegation made by a problem kid. Police will tell you the Pedophiles select the troubled children as prey not the well adjusted ones that would go to Parents. If nothing was done in 1970s, and again in 1980s, and then an investigation in 1998 resulted in no charges, by the time 2001 comes along with an eyewitness the 4 C, S, S, and P felt uncomfortable to report JS and Curley said he told JS go get help. Now if you do report it, and kids come out like Spotlight find out after publishing it, the next big question, you guys knew way back a decade ago and did nothing?????
If someone tells me you did something and I said why should I believe the kid after you tell me that kid is a problem child and your are helping him, it is perfectly understandable i would believe you over the kid and not believe his allegations.
If later you are investigated by Police and DA says no case you come back at me, and say see told you so, I was lied about I am the Victim, not the Kid???? why I am going to report you now that I know the DA checked it out and found nothing as a crime charge????
Finally, in 2001 again you are told and this time you tell the AD and all decided nothing enough to report???
By the way, it's not like there were major consequences for McQueary.
Agree, he was a recruiting coordinator from 2001 to 2003, but did get a coaching job at Wr Coach from 2004 to 2011.
You guys act like Paterno is some mafia don who whacks anybody that turns state's evidence.
The Freeh Report did say there a Air of Intimidation if anyone challenges the FB Program, Clery Act Report too. Janitors, Administrators, and 400 PSU Employee did talk about it but with the condition there names would be protected.
The worst thing Paterno could do to McQueary is fire him.It's not like he would have a hard time finding another job.
McQueary Preliminary Testimony before a Judge......
"Told him what he saw, said "what I saw was wrong." Said he needed advice. Father told him to come home right away."
McQueary called Paterno next morning between 7:30 a.m. to 8 a.m. Said: "Coach, I need to talk to you."
McQueary: "(Paterno) said 'if it's about a job, don't bother, I don't have one for you.' McQueary tells him it's not.
The rough positioning I would have described, but not in very much detail," McQueary said of what he told Paterno at his house.
Never said the words "anal intercourse" to Paterno "out of respect," McQueary said.
McQueary: Paterno needed to know since he was the head coach.
McQueary said Paterno told him: "Sorry you had to see that. You did the right thing."
Sometime after that, McQuery testified, Curley called him and he met with Curley and Schultz. He told them that "what I had seen was extremely sexual, extremely wrong," and they told him they would investigate. Later, they told him that they had reported the incident to The Second Mile and that Sandusky had been told to stay away from the football facility, though McQueary said Sandusky showed up later anyway. McQueary testified that the officials had told him not to discuss the incident.
In the cross-examination by Curley's attorney, Caroline Roberto, the judge would not allow questioning about a conversation McQueary reportedly had with Dr. Jonathan Dranov, his father's best friend, at his father's house after he left the football building. Pressed as to why he didn't use the term "anal sodomy" when relating the incident to Paterno, McQueary said, "Ma'am, you don't go to Coach Paterno and go in great detail about sexual acts," adding, "I would not have used the words 'anal intercourse.' I said 'extremely sexual act.'"
LINK:
http://deadspin.com/5868802/penn-st...stimony-some-kind-of-intercourse-was-going-on
Part II Below:
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PART II:
"topdecktiger, post: 1868565, member: 3806"
If somebody asks why he got fired, just say, "I reported a child molester to the police, and the school fired me." Trust me, that's not going to put a dent in his resume.
None of that happen that way and trust your hypo is not required, there was detailed investigation, transcripts, and court records that need no trusting hypo? Lawyers did challenge McQueary too.
By the way, how did McQueary's course of action actually work out for him?
He got hired and worked from 2001 to 2003 as Recruiting Coordinator then hired as WR Coach in 2004 until let go on 2011. He was paid $140,000 a year, got a car, expense account,and bonuses if team won, and recruiting budget and after being let go put him on indefinite paid administrative leaves then given a severance.
He's still not working at Penn St, and nobody else will hire him either, because he sat on the information for 10 years.
All correct but was not hired until after he told Joe them met with Curley that told him to remain quiet it was being dealt with and McQueary was not employed has WR Coach until 2004?
Sorry, you are just full of it with the McQueary business. He went along with it just like everyone else.
He was told by Curley not to talk about it like shows above???
You guys keep saying Paterno ran the entire university.
I don't agree with this totally, Joe had much influence like Freeh, Clery Report found out, but was not in total control of the university. Joe was in business with some Trustees but well respected and his power to raise money he bragged about and why he was considered more valuable than other employees and being in business with some trustees made him special too.
Ok, well McQueary isn't an idiot. He knows that as well as you. Well, he also knows what would happen if he kept it "in house."
Curley told him to keep in house and why he testified to what he saw truthfully and reported it to Paterno that also testified what he was told but Curley, Schultz and Spanier testified they were told it was just Horse Play....Emails caught them more than anything McQueary said..
And that's why I'm arguing with you. When you get into the legal aspect, that's not within the Penn St hierarchy.
Disagree!
McQueary won his case because Penn St lied about him during the cover up.
"That comes on top of the $5 million Judge Thomas Gavin awarded McQueary in November after finding Penn State mistreated him, and left him unemployed, after he was publicly named as a cooperating prosecution witness in the Jerry Sandusky child-sex investigation. Gavin concluded that attorney fees must be awarded in the whistleblower case because the state Legislature never intended that those who win such cases should pay their lawyers out of their own pockets. "I have found that (McQueary) was terminated for his role in bringing to light the criminal conduct of Mr. Sandusky," the judge wrote. "The fact that one who reports such conduct would suffer loss of employment for having done so is contrary to the interests of the commonwealth in protecting children." "I find the award of counsel fees to be appropriate as they advance a legitimate state interest of encouraging individuals to step forward and report such conduct," he added.
LINK:
http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/03/judge_orders_penn_state_to_pay.html
He didn't win because they tried to stop him from reporting it or anything. He didn't do anything to report it to authorities. He just kicked it up to Paterno and washed his hands of it.
Curley told him to be quiet and that was what happen! Once Investigators, prosecutors, and Grand Jury came in McQueary held back nothing and told all he knew. Curley & Schultz got indicted not McQueary! Spanier later after Freeh found the Emails and they were part of the PSU Hierarchy!
McQueary won his first case based on wrongful dismissal and for damages in defamation awarded over $7 million by a Jury, and then the Judge added 5 Million as a Whistle-Blowing Case.
"topdecktiger, post: 1868565, member: 3806"
If somebody asks why he got fired, just say, "I reported a child molester to the police, and the school fired me." Trust me, that's not going to put a dent in his resume.
None of that happen that way and trust your hypo is not required, there was detailed investigation, transcripts, and court records that need no trusting hypo? Lawyers did challenge McQueary too.
By the way, how did McQueary's course of action actually work out for him?
He got hired and worked from 2001 to 2003 as Recruiting Coordinator then hired as WR Coach in 2004 until let go on 2011. He was paid $140,000 a year, got a car, expense account,and bonuses if team won, and recruiting budget and after being let go put him on indefinite paid administrative leaves then given a severance.
He's still not working at Penn St, and nobody else will hire him either, because he sat on the information for 10 years.
All correct but was not hired until after he told Joe them met with Curley that told him to remain quiet it was being dealt with and McQueary was not employed has WR Coach until 2004?
Sorry, you are just full of it with the McQueary business. He went along with it just like everyone else.
He was told by Curley not to talk about it like shows above???
You guys keep saying Paterno ran the entire university.
I don't agree with this totally, Joe had much influence like Freeh, Clery Report found out, but was not in total control of the university. Joe was in business with some Trustees but well respected and his power to raise money he bragged about and why he was considered more valuable than other employees and being in business with some trustees made him special too.
Ok, well McQueary isn't an idiot. He knows that as well as you. Well, he also knows what would happen if he kept it "in house."
Curley told him to keep in house and why he testified to what he saw truthfully and reported it to Paterno that also testified what he was told but Curley, Schultz and Spanier testified they were told it was just Horse Play....Emails caught them more than anything McQueary said..
And that's why I'm arguing with you. When you get into the legal aspect, that's not within the Penn St hierarchy.
Disagree!
McQueary won his case because Penn St lied about him during the cover up.
"That comes on top of the $5 million Judge Thomas Gavin awarded McQueary in November after finding Penn State mistreated him, and left him unemployed, after he was publicly named as a cooperating prosecution witness in the Jerry Sandusky child-sex investigation. Gavin concluded that attorney fees must be awarded in the whistleblower case because the state Legislature never intended that those who win such cases should pay their lawyers out of their own pockets. "I have found that (McQueary) was terminated for his role in bringing to light the criminal conduct of Mr. Sandusky," the judge wrote. "The fact that one who reports such conduct would suffer loss of employment for having done so is contrary to the interests of the commonwealth in protecting children." "I find the award of counsel fees to be appropriate as they advance a legitimate state interest of encouraging individuals to step forward and report such conduct," he added.
LINK:
http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/03/judge_orders_penn_state_to_pay.html
He didn't win because they tried to stop him from reporting it or anything. He didn't do anything to report it to authorities. He just kicked it up to Paterno and washed his hands of it.
Curley told him to be quiet and that was what happen! Once Investigators, prosecutors, and Grand Jury came in McQueary held back nothing and told all he knew. Curley & Schultz got indicted not McQueary! Spanier later after Freeh found the Emails and they were part of the PSU Hierarchy!
McQueary won his first case based on wrongful dismissal and for damages in defamation awarded over $7 million by a Jury, and then the Judge added 5 Million as a Whistle-Blowing Case.
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Good post Capt.
I think what people underestimate in thinking how they would act in such a circumstance is the effect of being in a very strange subculture up there at UPS. You or I can think of what we would do in our own fairly normal adult civilised surroundings. The environment is different up there.
It is similar to how a calm peaceful person would pull the trigger to kill another human being in wartime and that would be seen as appropriate and necessary behaviour, but that behaviour in a different setting is seen as very wrong.
McQueary never knew anything but the cult environment of State College. He was conditioned to act in the way that he did. He still did more than anyone else. A person raised and educated in a normal society would obviously act differently. McQueary wasn't from a normal society. He was from Penn State.
He had a couple of hellish years but he's getting it back and then some. Good for him. He still could have handled it better but at least he did something.
In today's world, there's always a fear, like if you do something wrong, you might get sued or charged with something, good intentions won't prevent that if someone, or the state gets a hard on to do it. If you aren't a trained paramedic, you really don't know what to do. You probably shouldn't do a whole lot more than call 911.
It's rare to see anyone help a stranger anymore, especially with other people around. You see these internet videos of little kids falling into zoo cages or someone getting attacked and everyone reaches for their cell phones to video it, no one goes to help. It's almost an instinct now, go for your phone. all you see anymore is people getting attacked on streets, people in danger somehow, getting hit by cars and you can always count on 5 people recording it on their phones, very rare to see someone come in to help though. kind of sad really.
I remember that poor little boy at Pgh zoo a few years back, people actually videos it with their phone. Who in the hell would think to do that?
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There's a recent incident of a woman hanging off a balcony about to fall to her death and the person is making a video instead of helping pull her up.
That's an extreme case. But people don't want to be bothered. Like someone broadcast a rape in progress on Facebook Live, they said 40 people saw it and nobody called the police, and some suggested those 40 people should be prosecuted for not "doing something"! My question is why? How do you even know it's real? Or where it is? I'm not calling the police over a Facebook video. Makes people decide, if they see something like that on Facebook.... TURN OFF FACEBOOK, so someone won't say you are responsible and should be prosecuted.
That's an extreme case. But people don't want to be bothered. Like someone broadcast a rape in progress on Facebook Live, they said 40 people saw it and nobody called the police, and some suggested those 40 people should be prosecuted for not "doing something"! My question is why? How do you even know it's real? Or where it is? I'm not calling the police over a Facebook video. Makes people decide, if they see something like that on Facebook.... TURN OFF FACEBOOK, so someone won't say you are responsible and should be prosecuted.
Call the county sheriff???? Well done.
I love when people like you can declare emphatically that you would have done the right thing in the moment. Because you know better. You have almost twenty years of armchair QB-ing and you think the sheriff or city was a plausible option. Give me a break. Most people crap their pants the second things go south and panic. You had twenty years and you got it wrong.
Even now, most people don't know who to call unless they're a mandatory reporter. The laws changed (as a direct result of this debacle) and Mike would be one today, so yes, he'd know who to call. Back then, the three clowns at the top of the food chain tried to reason that Sandusky wasn't their problem so they didn't have to report (there's a little truth to that but we're keeping it simple here). But yeah, the twenty-something grad assistant is the monster.
He could of called 911 and reported a child rape, had the police sent their immediately. What year was that again? Did 911 exist yet? Honestly, if I would have seen a 50 year old man bttfckng a pre teen boy in a public shower room, I think I would have confronted him- "what the fck are you doing?", likely he would stop the "action" and try to make an excuse, then just call the police, 911. Immediately.
Not sure but in Happy Valley at the time, Sandusky was a huge celebrity and Paterno was God. By all previous accounts, the only loser from calling 911 is McQueary. Well, and the kid. The kid is just another trouble maker and McQueary is sent to purgatory.
He's there now but at least he has a bank account.
="USN_Panther, post: 1868787, member: 286"]Good post Capt.
I think what people underestimate in thinking how they would act in such a circumstance is the effect of being in a very strange subculture up there at UPS. You or I can think of what we would do in our own fairly normal adult civilized surroundings. The environment is different up there.
Very good posts back at you, it is very hard to explain, defend, or point out, how people that went to such an university fell for such blind ambitions lacking true values in an attempt to educate them.
It is similar to how a calm peaceful person would pull the trigger to kill another human being in wartime and that would be seen as appropriate and necessary behavior, but that behavior in a different setting is seen as very wrong.
A Culture built on ignorance is a Culture on inferiority! History is full of example from remnants of empires now rusting in legacies of best forgotten glories due to the preying upon what they think were weaker people somehow.
McQueary never knew anything but the cult environment of State College. He was conditioned to act in the way that he did. He still did more than anyone else. A person raised and educated in a normal society would obviously act differently. McQueary wasn't from a normal society. He was from Penn State.
Excatly, McQueary did not know what to do so he asked his father and then went to Joe and Joe in turn the very people that also did not know what to do, but decided the best thing to do was nothing too? This proof the "Penn State Culture" reflected by them as individuals, was not a culture that recognizes and respects human rights is existentially superior to one that doesn't. Obviously, McQueary, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, Spanier and PS4RS Trustees had grown up and still have no respect for the rights of other people.
The Disbelief now comes from blaming all others and seeking some kind of reversal among a Leadership even with more stupid thinking that a child or person's net worth makes one smart somehow? Or lying about other universities makes them superior somehow? Or denying children protection to save their "Coach" Legacy that was his own self-made and family self-sustained built on myths, is just inferior thinking in every way now that full truth has come out?
They now act like the typical Gang of Thugs and Thieves, Governmental Fascists, and includes their own Sports Fanatics. These type of people and organizations, would turn on each other with the smallest provocation. Who coined the phrase "a revolution always eats it's own?" Look how Penn Staters rioted, shouts down their fellow Posters that differ, and demand honoring some at Penn State over the Victims and those that chose to stand up for them and change the that kind of "Culture" wronged Penn State somehow?
It does not take much observation to conclude that these "Cultures" are inferior based on their actions and more importantly inaction's towards to those in need of respect and protection of most of the world are disadvantaged children.
The only sympathy one can have for such a Culture is the unfortunate situation whereby some Brave Penn State Alumni do not believe the same things but will be shouted down and harassed by the mob and that is what is a true failure of values at Penn State. So long as that type Leadership Defends such behavior they will always be the Little Brother that can't think straight and lack true values and never overcome the stain and shame of Penn State Name!
True Greatness in all forms do not leave The Worst College Football Scandal In History!
I think what people underestimate in thinking how they would act in such a circumstance is the effect of being in a very strange subculture up there at UPS. You or I can think of what we would do in our own fairly normal adult civilized surroundings. The environment is different up there.
Very good posts back at you, it is very hard to explain, defend, or point out, how people that went to such an university fell for such blind ambitions lacking true values in an attempt to educate them.
It is similar to how a calm peaceful person would pull the trigger to kill another human being in wartime and that would be seen as appropriate and necessary behavior, but that behavior in a different setting is seen as very wrong.
A Culture built on ignorance is a Culture on inferiority! History is full of example from remnants of empires now rusting in legacies of best forgotten glories due to the preying upon what they think were weaker people somehow.
McQueary never knew anything but the cult environment of State College. He was conditioned to act in the way that he did. He still did more than anyone else. A person raised and educated in a normal society would obviously act differently. McQueary wasn't from a normal society. He was from Penn State.
Excatly, McQueary did not know what to do so he asked his father and then went to Joe and Joe in turn the very people that also did not know what to do, but decided the best thing to do was nothing too? This proof the "Penn State Culture" reflected by them as individuals, was not a culture that recognizes and respects human rights is existentially superior to one that doesn't. Obviously, McQueary, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, Spanier and PS4RS Trustees had grown up and still have no respect for the rights of other people.
The Disbelief now comes from blaming all others and seeking some kind of reversal among a Leadership even with more stupid thinking that a child or person's net worth makes one smart somehow? Or lying about other universities makes them superior somehow? Or denying children protection to save their "Coach" Legacy that was his own self-made and family self-sustained built on myths, is just inferior thinking in every way now that full truth has come out?
They now act like the typical Gang of Thugs and Thieves, Governmental Fascists, and includes their own Sports Fanatics. These type of people and organizations, would turn on each other with the smallest provocation. Who coined the phrase "a revolution always eats it's own?" Look how Penn Staters rioted, shouts down their fellow Posters that differ, and demand honoring some at Penn State over the Victims and those that chose to stand up for them and change the that kind of "Culture" wronged Penn State somehow?
It does not take much observation to conclude that these "Cultures" are inferior based on their actions and more importantly inaction's towards to those in need of respect and protection of most of the world are disadvantaged children.
The only sympathy one can have for such a Culture is the unfortunate situation whereby some Brave Penn State Alumni do not believe the same things but will be shouted down and harassed by the mob and that is what is a true failure of values at Penn State. So long as that type Leadership Defends such behavior they will always be the Little Brother that can't think straight and lack true values and never overcome the stain and shame of Penn State Name!
True Greatness in all forms do not leave The Worst College Football Scandal In History!
I wish the rest of the highly paid coaches and administrators had the common sense of McQuery to report it.
"pittdan77, post: 1868970, member: 3668"]Call the county sheriff???? Well done. I love when people like you can declare emphatically that you would have done the right thing in the moment. Because you know better. You have almost twenty years of armchair QB-ing and you think the sheriff or city was a plausible option. Give me a break. Most people crap their pants the second things go south and panic. You had twenty years and you got it wrong.
TDT is great contributor to the Lair on many aspects of college football and I do not fault him on not knowing every detail on the Penn State Football Scandal. It was 50 years Scandal and still more revelations are coming out the last 7 years just now? I made it my point to learn all I could and follow it fairly and wait for Courts to bring it all out. It is confusing to understand it all and many still in Penn State Leadership have the task sort it all out even under criticisms and lack of values by other so-called Leadership that blame others instead of those that were in charged and caused it, one dead, others convicted?
Even now, most people don't know who to call unless they're a mandatory reporter. The laws changed (as a direct result of this debacle) and Mike would be one today, so yes, he'd know who to call. Back then, the three clowns at the top of the food chain tried to reason that Sandusky wasn't their problem so they didn't have to report (there's a little truth to that but we're keeping it simple here). But yeah, the twenty-something grad assistant is the monster.
No one is Saint because the "University Football Culture" at Penn State blinded all of them on what to do and when to do it, since they were covering many aspects that lacked Athletic Integrity for the sake of Winning 409?
After just one week of after reaching 409, it all came down and left a permanent stain and shame as The Worst Scandal in College Football History and some still choose to blame others and the only place to point is at each other at Penn State and then ask the world, see it wasn't any of us? But it all of them!
Louis Freeh got it right and 400 PSU Employees told Mr. Freeh all about it, and the PS4RS, Paterno Family, and Convicted that said they should have done more, still refuse to do more except try and mock those that investigated, found the truth, and they choose to undermine the very Victims that took great courage to admit what happen to them, and they still blame the Victims not Penn State Football Culture Lack of Values?
There is no confusion now, this was a total Penn State Culture of Failure With Multiple Investigations and still requires changing the inferior minds that refuse and can't see it, nor believe it, they have the problem now, no one else.
TDT is great contributor to the Lair on many aspects of college football and I do not fault him on not knowing every detail on the Penn State Football Scandal. It was 50 years Scandal and still more revelations are coming out the last 7 years just now? I made it my point to learn all I could and follow it fairly and wait for Courts to bring it all out. It is confusing to understand it all and many still in Penn State Leadership have the task sort it all out even under criticisms and lack of values by other so-called Leadership that blame others instead of those that were in charged and caused it, one dead, others convicted?
Even now, most people don't know who to call unless they're a mandatory reporter. The laws changed (as a direct result of this debacle) and Mike would be one today, so yes, he'd know who to call. Back then, the three clowns at the top of the food chain tried to reason that Sandusky wasn't their problem so they didn't have to report (there's a little truth to that but we're keeping it simple here). But yeah, the twenty-something grad assistant is the monster.
No one is Saint because the "University Football Culture" at Penn State blinded all of them on what to do and when to do it, since they were covering many aspects that lacked Athletic Integrity for the sake of Winning 409?
After just one week of after reaching 409, it all came down and left a permanent stain and shame as The Worst Scandal in College Football History and some still choose to blame others and the only place to point is at each other at Penn State and then ask the world, see it wasn't any of us? But it all of them!
Louis Freeh got it right and 400 PSU Employees told Mr. Freeh all about it, and the PS4RS, Paterno Family, and Convicted that said they should have done more, still refuse to do more except try and mock those that investigated, found the truth, and they choose to undermine the very Victims that took great courage to admit what happen to them, and they still blame the Victims not Penn State Football Culture Lack of Values?
There is no confusion now, this was a total Penn State Culture of Failure With Multiple Investigations and still requires changing the inferior minds that refuse and can't see it, nor believe it, they have the problem now, no one else.
I would have waited 5 minutes to call then report an unresponsive 50 year old man.....
Sorry, McQueary is not the saint you make him out to be. Like another poster said, just call 911. How hard is that? Again, like the other poster said, you see some guy raping a kid, picking up a phone and calling 911 is not a difficult thing to do.
I'm going to make the same point I did earlier. It's been said Paterno ran the university. It's also said Paterno covered up many things involving the program in years previous. Well again, McQueary knew all this. So, McQueary knew if all he did was go to Paterno (and not the police), the whole thing would just get buried. So no, I'm not going to say McQueary was a hero, when what he did was to tell the guy he knew was just going to to cover up the whole thing.
Again, thank you for coming on the Lair and showing all of us you'll never be the man your mother is and please don’t blame her failed abortion with your birth certificate being an apology from the condom factory.
She did the right thing whereby when you popped out the Doctor said aww what a treasure mind of nothing and your mom said yeah lets bury it. Why you ended up in the manure at a Penn State Barn well noted for mixed diarrhea of the mouth as well as constipation of the ideas is something they all regret being ashamed of you.
Good luck in finding yourself and then you will wish you hadn't but on that day, it will be excellent time to become a missing person like you become on all Rival Boards!
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Pitt cured Polio when Penn State was not even an University. Pitt can't help you being a Paterno Worshiper since there is no vaccine against stupidity. So, Penn State did the only thing they could, they fired Paterno and resonated with Athletic Integrity for the first time and still have you as a Penn State Fan thank you again proving why Paterno died in disgraced having a fan like you!
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Does anyone believe that anything at all is different there now? Even with all different people in place?
Truly ... if an assistant coach today stumbled in on another coach doing something similar as Sandusky, or walked in on a player assaulting his girlfriend ... does anyone think for a second they'd do anything but go to Franklin, who would then cover it up?
Truly ... if an assistant coach today stumbled in on another coach doing something similar as Sandusky, or walked in on a player assaulting his girlfriend ... does anyone think for a second they'd do anything but go to Franklin, who would then cover it up?
Not really, and that's my whole point. When people say "Paterno ran everything," that's just a copout, because obviously there are still problems, like you said. The trustee's remarks just illustrate the point.
Jackie said it best Pitt Fans and Penn State with WVU fans are suppose to dislike each other. Jackie and Joe went at it, but today Jackie and Jay stand together against the NCAA!
Still, I don't mind being mocked and that is expected and accepted on the BWI and so be it. On Pitt Lair & Mountaineer Board I can defend Pitt and myself while respecting the better aspects of competitor programs.
Joe was Great Coach that built a Strong Program and did much good for Penn State but he did let down Penn State that employed him in the end by ending the Pitt Series due to his ego, and his silence on Sandusky and Joe was honest enough to blame himself by saying Hindsight he should have done more and told all Students that rioted pray for the children and go study.
What is horrible is what Ex-PSU Trustee had to say about the Victims and that is never acceptable by reasonable well thought out mature men anywhere in his so-called crusade to restore same kind of superiority that never existed at Penn State and certainly was laceration lacking Athletic Integrity!
Joe never even wanted a statue and Penn State Fans just have to accept Joe is gone and buried and others think they have to speak for him does for him in not needed.
If Coaches and Players can shake hands after well fought competitive game, so can fans, and before and during such games and Banter is not only expected but demanded and part of what makes College Football too.
Capt, sadly many peddstater's still do not get it.
