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OT: Murray warming up....

I cannot believe the NHL is expanding, I mean the talent dilution is bad as it is right now.......

Look, I am as critical of the NHL - they drive me crazy with some of their boneheaded decisions.

However, on the expansion front, they are not wrong. The NHL needs to expand. They have to add two teams to the Western Conference to bring balance to the NHL.

Currently there are 16 teams in the East, 14 teams in the West. That is inherently unfair to the Eastern teams. They have to even that out.

Also, unlike in the mid 90s when the league did over expand, there are now plenty of NHL caliber players to go around. One of the under told stories in all of sports has been how much hockey has grown in the United States.

According to its website, in 1990-91, USA Hockey’s national membership stood at 195,125 players. In just 10 years, that number ballooned to 439,140 in 2000-01. Just last season, USA Hockey boasted 510,279 members, the second most all-time and just under 1,000 less than the record 511,178 set in 2011-12.

It has especially grown in areas like Western Pennsylvania, Chicagoland, the Potomac Valley, the Delaware Valley, California and Texas. That was not the case the last time the NHL expanded.

As an example, Shayne Gostisbehere, Flyers' gifted young defenseman, was born and raised in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Auston Matthews, who will be the number one overall pick in this year's draft, was developed in suburban Phoenix.

That is a radically different picture than the last time around.

Now, because the NHL is the NHL, of course they screwed up the rollout. You don't announce an expansion until you have already chosen your teams. Holding an open competition for one invites precisely the type of insanity that has ensued.

They needed to wait for Seattle to sort out it's arena situation – which is close – before starting this process. That is where the NHL wants to be – Las Vegas and Seattle. However, publicly financed sports venues are tricky politically and often take years to pass. Seattle had still not reached that point.

What absolutely cannot happen is for the NHL to bow to Canadian pressure and grant an expansion franchise to Quebec City. That market is too small and the loony is far too weak right now to pull that off. If Canada can straighten out it's economy, the QC market would become much more attractive. However, as things currently stand, they are a firm no vote for anyone with a brain.

I think the threat of QC should be used to leverage new arenas in American cities. Also, if say the Florida Panthers fail, and I am watching the playoffs and they still have thousands of empty seats – not a good sign, QC would be a good place to put them.
 
There's quite a fee assumptions that we are the only team with a good young goalie and also a good starting goalie.

I'll list more when I havr time, but Boston with Rask and Subban, Tampa with Vasilevsky and Bishop, Anaheim with Gibson and Anderson....it's not a slam dunk they want a Fleury either. Maybe they see more value plucking a dman or a Kessel from us instead of our Goalie.
 
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That is absolutely right. We are not going to lose either goaltender in the expansion draft – I can guarantee that much.
 
Okay, this is not done with the hyperbole of reaction to tonight's win. But we may have seen the last of Marc Andre Fleury in a Pens uniform.
I don't think there is much of a chance at all that Fluery is traded before summer of 2017. If it happened this off season it would have to be an enormous haul. Like top 5 pick and a very good young prospect with probably something else. Who would make sense? Calgary has clear issues between the pipes and nothing great in the pipeline.

With that said...what about Fleury + Pouliot for #5, TJ Brodie (I know a fan favorite), and Morgan Klimchuk? Get that top 5 pick, a very, very good young D (at a reasonable rate) that fits the system perfectly, and a solid W prospect. Obviously give up Fleury and a prospect in Pouliot who just doesn't seem to be figuring it out in Pittsburgh. I think I would do that if I really believed in Murray as the #1. The difference in dollars should be enough to sign a solid vet (Cam Ward would be perfect, but probably too expensive, to mentor him) backup/timeshare to Murray. Brodie joins Letang and Maata as your clear top 2 pairing D and then you just have to find 1 guy out of Daley, Cole, and Dumolin to get comfortable with them.

All you would be left to find is a #7 D you are happy with (Lovejoy would be fine with me) and either another skater up front (if Dubois, Sprong, or Klimchuk aren't ready) or an 8th D because the organization is all of the sudden very thin there and about $2-2.6M (assuming a $74M cap) with which to do it.

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Kunitz-Bonino-Sprong
Kunhackl-Fehr-Rust
Wilson & Sundqvist

Letang-Maata
Brodie-Daley
Cole-Dumoulin
Lovejoy or other Vet

Murray
Veteran

That (with still some decent depth prospects plus Dubois in the minors) would be a team I would be very excited about for 2016-17 and the future.
 
Flower is signed thru next year, correct? Not an expert on hockey financials, can we just cut him like in football? do you take a salary hit? My buddy said it's the same hit since he is signed already but likely gone after next year. Im with you, the future is now with Murray, if you can just cut the tie with flower that is.. On a side note, Flower's wife aint bad, saw her in a commercial yesterday.. Good for him..

3 more years I believe after this year.
 
No, I get where you're coming from and ultimately we will probably end up in the same spot. I agree that Matt Murray will likely be the long-term goaltender for Pittsburgh. However, I think you're rushing things a bit here. Let me put it this way, I definitely don't think we've seen the last of Marc Andre Fleury in a Pittsburgh Penguins uniform.

I don't think the expansion draft is going to have much, if anything, to do with the Pens' goaltending plans. I don't think that affects our timeline at all - at least it shouldn't.

Also, there is no chance they would expose Murray, that's what I'm trying to tell you. There is just no way in this world they would risk getting nothing in return for that level of asset.

The same is true of Tampa and it's two talented young goaltenders and Anaheim with it's too talented young netminders.

Some goaltenders are likely to be moved or those teams are going to surrender other assets to Las Vegas in exchange for Las Vegas promising to not draft their prized understudies.

How do I know this? Because I've seen this film before and that's exactly what teams did then and will almost certainly do this time around too.

Some smart general manager for Las Vegas – perhaps Don Maloney – will quickly realize that the extra prospects/draft choices are more valuable to his talent-starved infantile franchise than securing a good goaltender. Now, if your team is ready to win, give me the goaltender. However, it will be a long time before Las Vegas is winning anything - especially in the mighty West.

LV's GM will decide that his team can get by for a few years with a mediocre goaltender if it can accrue a lot of draft choices and prospects to build up the overall depth in his organization.

Las Vegas' first goaltender is going to be someone like Antti Niemi or James Reimer or someone like that. It is not going to be a star caliber player like MAF. We would just get way more for him on the open market. Almost every team could use a world-class goaltender and Fleury is definitely that.

Also, unlike most other positions, goaltenders tend to get better with age, so I don't believe that a 32-year-old MAF is going to scare off anyone; especially given his well-known fitness regimen and athleticism.

Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that MAF is old and age is a performance factor for him, now or over the next couple of years. I am strictly saying age in this case leads to a big ticket salary, and if you can get assets for him and also create cap room, than it is the smart play. I agree with you in regards to the Pens not losing either in the Exp draft, but it could complicate things. And one other thing though to counter what you said. Yes, prospects and draft picks are paramount for an expansion team, but a great veteran goalie can immediately yield dividends with an expansion franchise, see Florida Panthers and John Van Biesbrouck.
 
Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that MAF is old and age is a performance factor for him, now or over the next couple of years. I am strictly saying age in this case leads to a big ticket salary, and if you can get assets for him and also create cap room, than it is the smart play. I agree with you in regards to the Pens not losing either in the Exp draft, but it could complicate things. And one other thing though to counter what you said. Yes, prospects and draft picks are paramount for an expansion team, but a great veteran goalie can immediately yield dividends with an expansion franchise, see Florida Panthers and John Van Biesbrouck.
And *IF* Quebec City gets a team, it could be hard for them to pass up on MAF.
 
I don't think there is much of a chance at all that Fluery is traded before summer of 2017. If it happened this off season it would have to be an enormous haul. Like top 5 pick and a very good young prospect with probably something else. Who would make sense? Calgary has clear issues between the pipes and nothing great in the pipeline.

With that said...what about Fleury + Pouliot for #5, TJ Brodie (I know a fan favorite), and Morgan Klimchuk? Get that top 5 pick, a very, very good young D (at a reasonable rate) that fits the system perfectly, and a solid W prospect. Obviously give up Fleury and a prospect in Pouliot who just doesn't seem to be figuring it out in Pittsburgh. I think I would do that if I really believed in Murray as the #1. The difference in dollars should be enough to sign a solid vet (Cam Ward would be perfect, but probably too expensive, to mentor him) backup/timeshare to Murray. Brodie joins Letang and Maata as your clear top 2 pairing D and then you just have to find 1 guy out of Daley, Cole, and Dumolin to get comfortable with them.

All you would be left to find is a #7 D you are happy with (Lovejoy would be fine with me) and either another skater up front (if Dubois, Sprong, or Klimchuk aren't ready) or an 8th D because the organization is all of the sudden very thin there and about $2-2.6M (assuming a $74M cap) with which to do it.

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Kunitz-Bonino-Sprong
Kunhackl-Fehr-Rust
Wilson & Sundqvist

Letang-Maata
Brodie-Daley
Cole-Dumoulin
Lovejoy or other Vet

Murray
Veteran

That (with still some decent depth prospects plus Dubois in the minors) would be a team I would be very excited about for 2016-17 and the future.

Not bad. There is someone else in that lineup that they can possibly look to move also. Would be an interesting move.
 
And *IF* Quebec City gets a team, it could be hard for them to pass up on MAF.

Unless Canada's economy makes a miraculous come back, Quebec City is not getting an expansion team.

Their best bet is to try to woo in existing team locked into a bad arena situation but with a breakable lease or with an agnostic fan base.

To me, the Florida Panthers or the Carolina Hurricanes would seem like good candidates to be relocated to Quebec City – after Canada's economy rebounds.

It looks pretty certain now that Arizona is going to build a new downtown arena in Phoenix that they will share with the Suns, so you can take them off the list.

I was hoping that the Islanders might end up in Quebec City. New York City does not need three teams in the same region. That's at least one too many.
 
Not bad. There is someone else in that lineup that they can possibly look to move also. Would be an interesting move.
Oh, for sure there are a couple, but that works under the cap and continues continuity. I imagine it would cost us money or an asset to ship Kunitz off, so I'd rather hold him for the year and have him as a leader on the 3rd line or option Sid is comfortable with on L1 if need be.
 
The Carolina canes get pretty good fan support ,
Lots of relocated Yankees down here .

Hope they aren't a candidate , selfishly .

I hope Carolina stays too. I think that market has a lot of potential. You just often hear their name associated with relocation rumors because their owner, Peter Karmanos, is desperately trying to sell the team and he has no other connection to the research triangle. He is a Detroit native who has lived in Hartford for many years.

He is very openly looking to divest himself from that organization but he cannot seem to find a bidder in the area. On the other hand, Quebec City is not getting an expansion team because the market is too small. However, and somewhat paradoxically, it actually has a deep pocketed owner, Quebecor, which is all lubed up and ready to go.

As I said earlier, I do not believe the Quebec City is going to get an expansion team. The timing is just all wrong. However, I think it is almost certain that QC is going to eventually land a relocated team from a failing Eastern conference market.

I still consider the Florida Panthers to be the odds on favorite. Their playoff attendance has pretty bad so far and their regular season attendance numbers are the very worst in the entire NHL.
 
-Malkin is dominating this game. 1G, 2ASS, 4SOG. In half the game. Perhaps its a sign he is back.
 
I was listening to the Rangers broadcast on Sirius and they were very quick to bring up that they have been down in a series 3-1 the previous two years and came back.
Certainly, we'll see if the culture of this team has truly changed since Sheri and Bylsma.
 
Yeah. This series "feels" different. The Rangers certainly aren't as good and older, but in playoff hockey the only true thing that is "day to day" is momentum. You are only as good as your next game,

I expect both teams to come out hard, but if the Pens get an early 2-0 lead, I also expect the Rangers to acknowledge the inevitability that they aren't going to win. But if they do win, I expect some bad thoughts to creep into the Pens heads from memories of 2 years ago.
 
Yeah. This series "feels" different. The Rangers certainly aren't as good and older, but in playoff hockey the only true thing that is "day to day" is momentum. You are only as good as your next game,

I expect both teams to come out hard, but if the Pens get an early 2-0 lead, I also expect the Rangers to acknowledge the inevitability that they aren't going to win. But if they do win, I expect some bad thoughts to creep into the Pens heads from memories of 2 years ago.
Yeah, that is the worry. Just wrap it up in game 5 and don't let that possibility see the light.
 
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Oh no Geno. Why would you do that. The only thing that can save the Rangers is bad luck on the Penguins and Geno had to go put a Pitt shirt on? Dammit!
 
He fought the puck all game long. He didn't look good today, but the team really picked it up and crushed the Rangers. You have to stop deflected pucks also. None of the deflections made drastic changes to the direction of the puck. Oh well, off to the next round!
 
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