Who gets more credit for the resurgence of Pitt's offense - Bell or Holstein?

[TD_6082]

There is no way they would have rolled out Jurk over a talent like Eli.

Disagree strongly. Jurk was anointed the minute he agreed to come to Pitt. There was a huge incumbency and upperclassman bias with both Cig and Dooz as well as an obviopus promise that was made to Jurk. The Jurk could barely execute a forward pass yet didn't even have to win his job at Pitt. There is also a very real question as to whether Cig and co. would have even recognized Eli as a potential major talent especially as a first year transfer not taking first team reps. At most, they maybe would have given Jurk the hook earlier if Eli was here and wasyinplag well in practice. Maybe. You didn't see Duzz interceding in Cig's personnel decisons for the first few games, despite the fact he obviously could see what even the untrained eye could see--the Jurk had no arm at all.

The thing that was obvious about last year's QB situation is that neither Jurk, Veilleux, or Yarnell were anywhere close to good enough to help Pitt win games.

Yeah, we all saw Jurk struggle to throw last year. He was never the most consistent with his accuracy, but last year was something else entirely. Was there some medical reason he was so off? That appeared to be nowhere near the same player Pitt faced in 2020.

There's almost always uppclassmam bias at QB unless the underclassman is clearly outperforming the upperclassman.

 

[thebadby2]

That’s why I give Narduzzi the credit/
Changing the entire offensive staff is the primary reason.
None of the happens if he remains inflexible .

Agree with that. He recognized he had to shake things up and he did it in a big, high-risk, uncertain reward way. Refreshing out of him.

 

[pittbb80]

Agree with that. He recognized he had to shake things up and he did it in a big, high-risk, uncertain reward way. Refreshing out of him.

For sure Duz gets the credit for making the change and enabling the change. But that was not the question. The general question is who deserves more credit, the OC or the QB. For example, Ya think the Chiefs offense would be as good without Mahomes? Conversely, would Mahomes be as effective in a Matt Canada offense?

Bell is light years better than Cigs. That goes without saying. But this offense isnt near as good without ELi as it is with him.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

For sure Duz gets the credit for making the change and enabling the change. But that was not the question. The general question is who deserves more credit, the OC or the QB. For example, Ya think the Chiefs offense would be as good without Mahomes? Conversely, would Mahomes be as effective in a Matt Canada offense?

Bell is light years better than Cigs. That goes without saying. But this offense isnt near as good without ELi as it is with him.

Bell didn’t have Eli last season, and his offense put up staggering numbers. Just saying.

 

[pittbb80]

Bell didn’t have Eli last season, and his offense put up staggering numbers. Just saying.

That was at WC. Not denying Bell is the real deal. You have to have BOTH a good OC and a really good QB to be a really good offense. Again Bells offense would be awful with Jerk or The kid form PSU. It wouldnt be near as good with Nate but still pretty good. Eli is the straw the stirs the drink

 

[RaleighPittFan]

That was at WC. Not denying Bell is the real deal. You have to have BOTH a good OC and a really good QB to be a really good offense. Again Bells offense would be awful with Jerk or The kid form PSU. It wouldnt be near as good with Nate but still pretty good. Eli is the straw the stirs the drink

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote. I’d just add that I don’t believe for a second that Eli would have come here if Bell didn’t.

And if Eli didn’t, Bell would have attracted another quality guy who could run his O.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Bell didn’t have Eli last season, and his offense put up staggering numbers. Just saying.

Against similar talent levels .
Its been encouraging so far , no doubt -
But let’s pump the breaks a bit until we start facing some
Defenses with more talent .

 

[pittbb80]

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote. I’d just add that I don’t believe for a second that Eli would have come here if Bell didn’t.

And if Eli didn’t, Bell would have attracted another quality guy who could run his O.

I cant find it but I thought I had read somewhere that Eli said he decided to come to Pitt before Bell was hired. Now this is me conjecturing but I think he saw he had a clear path to start and Duz assured him hed hire a good OC.

And I do agree with the second part. If it wasnt Eli they would have found another guy. I think Nate would do Decent though but not near as good as Eli.

 

[pittbb80]

This is how good Eil is. Mac said their staff decided BEFORE the game that they were going to be more aggressive in going for it on fourth down because.............the QB is that Good. Hi praise for Eli.

 

[PittPharm2002]

I cant find it but I thought I had read somewhere that Eli said he decided to come to Pitt before Bell was hired. Now this is me conjecturing but I think he saw he had a clear path to start and Duz assured him hed hire a good OC.

And I do agree with the second part. If it wasnt Eli they would have found another guy. I think Nate would do Decent though but not near as good as Eli.

Eli has that Kenny Pickett compete level quality , which is great .
He’s not an overwhelming athlete - but like KP at pitt - is just a winner

 

[pittbb80]

Eli has that Kenny Pickett compete level quality , which is great .
He’s not an overwhelming athlete - but like KP at pitt - is just a winner

Eli has superior pocket presence and vision to Picket. Hes also a better athlete than Picket. I dont recall any coach game planning because of PIckets abilities.

 

[TD_6082]

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote. I’d just add that I don’t believe for a second that Eli would have come here if Bell didn’t.

And if Eli didn’t, Bell would have attracted another quality guy who could run his O.

Pitt began targeting Eli last year back in late October per Noah Hiles.

Eli was buried on Bama's depth chart behind a couple of other guys that, to be honest about it, can't really play. He announced he was leaving Bama just after their Rose Bowl game with Michigan and announced he was transferring to Pitt 4 or 5 days later. I don't really think he was in high demand.

There is no way anybody knew he would be this good this soon. Not a chance.

That part about Bell attracting another quality guy that could run his offense... that's really impossible to say. Sometimes it;s a little more than a crapshoot. There's a reason the blue bloods try to sign at least one 5-star type guy every year. Often times, at schools like Pitt that aren't blue bloods, its one thing to identify a QB the staff thinks will develop into a solid QB. It's often something entirely different to actually get them signed. I really like Mark Whipple as an OC & QB coach. I'm not sure he ever really signed a QB that could take over from Pickett and win at this level an in his entire 3 years here.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Eli has superior pocket presence and vision to Picket. Hes also a better athlete than Picket. I dont recall any coach game planning because of PIckets abilities.

I wouldn’t take what Mack brown says too seriously .
When he knows he’s done after losing 3 in a row .

They both a 4th quarter comeback clutch performers

 

[TD_6082]

Eli has superior pocket presence and vision to Picket. Hes also a better athlete than Picket. I dont recall any coach game planning because of PIckets abilities.

Kenny's pocket presence and vision was very good for a college QB his last 2 years at Pitt, although Eli does seem to be a bit more instinctive with his pocket presence, which is borderline insane for guy after 5 starts. I'm not overly impressed with his vision yet.

No question Eli is a better athlete. He has deceptive speed & he also has some juke as a runner.

 

[PittComm92]

Your last paragraph is something that is often easier said than done. It's one thing to identify a QB you think can come in and perform well. Actually getting them to sign on the dotted line is often a completely different animal. Then you never really know how they are going to perform and develop until they are actually thrown to the fire. It's not always easy & doesn't always go as planned, not even for the blue bloods.

I'm not saying they'll just pluck another Holstein off the tree. But a QB-friendly system that lets them put up big numbers should ensure at least solid talent coming in.

 

[PittComm92]

Kenny's pocket presence and vision was very good for a college QB his last 2 years at Pitt, although Eli does seem to be a bit more instinctive with his pocket presence, which is borderline insane for guy after 5 starts. I'm not overly impressed with his vision yet.

No question Eli is a better athlete. He has deceptive speed & he also has some juke as a runner.

Pickett's RAS score was 9.53 out of 10, which is actually pretty elite. He was 41st out of 860 QBs over like a 30 year period. He was a much better athlete than people give him credit for.

I don't think Holstein would put up that kind of number, but he does run well for a guy his size.