what is it with this team scoring a couple early goals and then going asleep with awful
Puck possession for a period and a half??
Puck possession for a period and a half??
Ot: penguins
- Thread starter SoufOaklin4Life
- Start date
Eh. Who cares. It’s December. They don’t care either. Well they care but it’s a long season and they know it...just as we do as fans.
It's all Matt Murray's fault! No seriously dude, I am glad you posted this, you are watching the same excrement as I am, maybe like the Patriots, the run is ending. I am sure you are thrilled to know I was planning a huge OT post this week on the Pens like last year at this time that I posted. But I think this year it is more dire. The problems are many, and they are great.
I think fkthomas is right. They’re simply disinterested right now. It’s a bland and boring product but if they look like this in a few months then I’ll panic.
Murray is broken , he may be done.
It’s why desmith Keeps getting trotted out there. They have more confidence in him currently
But it was the awful 25 minutes from the end of the first to through the second which lost it.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
The Metropolitan is a mess. They really shouldn’t have to put much effort into making the playoffs.
I actually don't think it is more dire than last year, but that's only if they get proactive and start making some moves. Nothing will matter unless Sid & Geno play to their potential. It's well past time to shop Brassard, who reportedly still has solid value. A few more moves and everyone getting motivated might make them a threat. I just don't like this notion that they can "turn it on" when necessary.
I don’t think it’s a lack of confidence thing. It’s more of Sullivan’s stubbornness shining through. Remember he did the same thing to Fleury when he decided Murray was his guy. I’m not arguing that Murray may not bounce back but DeSmith’s emergence is more Sullivan being bullheaded than anything else. Either he’ll prove himself right or it will cost him his job.
Yeah Sullivan was great in winning cups, but more than any sport, coaches have shelf lives in the NHL. He is completely stubborn and cost the Pens #1 draft picks by having Ryan Reaves (who incidentally scored more goals in the playoffs than the entire Pens bottom 6 last year) Reaves has 6 goals and 11 points this year. That is more than Derek Brassard. I am not saying this because I think Ryan Reaves was the 2nd coming of Rick Tocchet, I am saying this because he was a good player, who Jim Rutherford traded a #1 pick for and Sullivan never gave him a chance.
Daniel Sprong has 3 goals in 6 games so far with Anaheim. Yet, he never got a fair chance here. Sully didn't like him. I don't care if he has an "attitude" so does Phil Kessel. So we wasted the best prospect in the system for a 5/6 pairing defenseman essentially. We traded a 1 pick and goalie prospect for Brassard and he has been a disaster.
The Pens leading scorers, Sid, Geno and Kessel with 36 points, are tied for 23rd in the NHL! There are 22 guys ahead of these guys. An amazing stat, both Sid and Geno play on the PP and have 36 points, so all of those shorties against the Pens count against their +/- stats and Sid is Plus 9 and Geno is MINUS 14! My god, I know now with all of the advanced stats out there this is not looked at as much, but that to me is almost impossible and certainly reflective of the difference in play 5 on 5 from Sid and Geno. Meaning, Geno has been friggin horrible.
Goaltending has been "meh". DeSmith has been good, Murray has been bad, but Murray has been out a month, so the whipping boy can't be blamed on the overall performance this past month. What can be? The Pens gave up 36 shots last night. 41 shots to the anemic LA Kings. 51 shots to the reeling Boston Bruins. That's just horrible. Jacques friggin Plante isn't going to fare well with those numbers.
They scored on the PP last night, but haven't had any PP goals in the 8 games prior. They aren't getting power plays.
To me, the #1 culprit for this is Geno. He has been horrible. Phil is along side of him. Hornquist's injury hurts. Brassard is garbage. Maatta can't be moved soon enough. Almost every team now looks faster than the Penguins, maybe this is the end, the window is slamming shut and really there is no longer any young guys coming up. There is no cap room. I hope and pray that Rutherford doesn't trade his #1 pick this year, because there is no guarantee they are making the playoffs.
Other teams have caught up and even passed them. The Caps have managed to retool and infuse some talent into the lineup with Ovy and Backstrom. I thought when they signed Orpik and Oshie and Niskanen to long term contracts they were done, but no they aren't.
I know last year was similar this time, but the team is a year older, there hasn't been a young player really inserted to boost the team, and all of those golden moves Rutherford made, well since last year, none look good. Maybe the end of the ride fellas.
Daniel Sprong has 3 goals in 6 games so far with Anaheim. Yet, he never got a fair chance here. Sully didn't like him. I don't care if he has an "attitude" so does Phil Kessel. So we wasted the best prospect in the system for a 5/6 pairing defenseman essentially. We traded a 1 pick and goalie prospect for Brassard and he has been a disaster.
The Pens leading scorers, Sid, Geno and Kessel with 36 points, are tied for 23rd in the NHL! There are 22 guys ahead of these guys. An amazing stat, both Sid and Geno play on the PP and have 36 points, so all of those shorties against the Pens count against their +/- stats and Sid is Plus 9 and Geno is MINUS 14! My god, I know now with all of the advanced stats out there this is not looked at as much, but that to me is almost impossible and certainly reflective of the difference in play 5 on 5 from Sid and Geno. Meaning, Geno has been friggin horrible.
Goaltending has been "meh". DeSmith has been good, Murray has been bad, but Murray has been out a month, so the whipping boy can't be blamed on the overall performance this past month. What can be? The Pens gave up 36 shots last night. 41 shots to the anemic LA Kings. 51 shots to the reeling Boston Bruins. That's just horrible. Jacques friggin Plante isn't going to fare well with those numbers.
They scored on the PP last night, but haven't had any PP goals in the 8 games prior. They aren't getting power plays.
To me, the #1 culprit for this is Geno. He has been horrible. Phil is along side of him. Hornquist's injury hurts. Brassard is garbage. Maatta can't be moved soon enough. Almost every team now looks faster than the Penguins, maybe this is the end, the window is slamming shut and really there is no longer any young guys coming up. There is no cap room. I hope and pray that Rutherford doesn't trade his #1 pick this year, because there is no guarantee they are making the playoffs.
Other teams have caught up and even passed them. The Caps have managed to retool and infuse some talent into the lineup with Ovy and Backstrom. I thought when they signed Orpik and Oshie and Niskanen to long term contracts they were done, but no they aren't.
I know last year was similar this time, but the team is a year older, there hasn't been a young player really inserted to boost the team, and all of those golden moves Rutherford made, well since last year, none look good. Maybe the end of the ride fellas.
I think Mackeys article indicates your explanation of the Sprong issue is an over simplification of what happened
I do think the problems with the pens are Sid and Geno are not even close to being Sid and Geno and guys like Brassard have not planned out.
Also I think losing Shultz has had a much bigger affect than people realize
Having said all that if they can eliminate the lapses like yesterday this team can still get on a hot streak and do damage in the playoffs
No I get that, I get what all that he wrote. That is why I said, he should have been moved last year in a bigger deal when he still had more value because he was puzzle piece with no fit here.
That being said, the style that served us so well under Sullivan may need to be tweaked and dialed back. We are no longer the fastest team in the league. And the Pens have gotten a bit bigger, time to play more of a heavy style in the offensive zone, it may suit the personnel better.
Yeah, the Ducks started to take over the play last night in the last 5 minutes of the 1st period and the entire 2nd period where they outplayed us by a large margin ...... the Ducks started playing a physical tight checking game with an effective forecheck (they won battles in our end and cycled the puck very well) and they trapped in the neutral zone all of which made it difficult for us to get out of our zone and more difficult to get through the neutral zone ...... they basically took away our long cross ice passes and caused turnovers (we had 12 giveaways to their 2) ...... just my opinion, but instead of changing our front line personnel ever other shift, I thought we should have changed the way we were playing, supported the puck a lot more in getting it out of our end with shorter passes and moving out of our end into the neutral zone with speed, getting to the red line and either carrying it into their zone if there was an opening or if not dumping it deep into their zone with Pens players going full speed through the neutral zone onto the forecheck..... we needed to play a more physical game, a more patient game, get pucks behind them and we didn't ..... we also needed to get more traffic in front of Gibson (he ended up facing a lot of low danger shots which were easy saves because no one went to the net for us) ..... we really missed Patrick Hornqvist in this game ..... just some of my thoughts on last nights game.
Let’s not forget that a lot of the top end guys just finished winning B2B cups not too long ago. Many of them not named Sidney Crosby are simply not as motivated as they were prior to 3 years ago. What’s going to change that is a blockbuster trade or a new face behind the bench so maybe we will see Letang or Kessel depart. Ultimately the roster now should look entirely different come the trade deadline.
I was actually somewhat encouraged by Murray's performance the other night against the LAK ...... you could see that he has worked on some parts of his game ...... he looked a little rusty in the beginning but got better as the game progressed ...... his goalie movement was better which led to better angles and positioning ...... he made 38 saves on 41 shots and the only goal that I didn't like was the 3rd one where there was a pass to the right winger who was open and took a fairly quick shot, Murray got across in time but was off balance and not square to the shooter, the shot hit his body and went through ..... thought he should have had that one ...... Murray made 2 or 3 fantastic saves in the overtime to give us a chance to win.
We'll have to see if he can be consistent and continue to show improvement and if he can stay healthy ...... I'm not ready to say that Murray is "back" but I at least was somewhat encouraged in his game the other night ..... time will tell.
Thanks Goalie.........always enjoy reading your insights. I thought MMs performance was encouraging as well. I also think sullivan is smart to rotate the Goalies to give MM mroe time to work on his game and gain confidence.
The PENS appear to be disinterested, unable or unwilling to play 100% the entire game, not closing games out, missing easy opportunities on the offensive end, they're not sacrificing their bodies or working hard to block shots, not a lot of effort getting players to the net, taking to many penalties especially bad penalties and opponents are beating the PENS to the puck on both ends.
Not a great story so far this year!
Hope the story has a happy ending?
"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!
Not a great story so far this year!
Hope the story has a happy ending?
"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!
This has been my point for some time and why I think they need to get younger, newer and hungrier. It's not strictly a physical thing, although I think they would be well served by getting somewhat younger. They did this last year, too, and then played some great hockey to create some hope. They might do the same this year, but I won't be buying the notion that they will be able to sustain it for four rounds of playoff hockey. I think they need to make some trades and hope it works. It may not, but I don't think standing pat will work, either.
Again, I have been harping on this for awhile.
Up front, Sid, Geno and Phil now are on the plus side of 30. I am not saying they are slow, but they may be a step slower. Hagelin (one of the fastest guys in the league still) is gone. Sheary is gone. Bonino was a good skater. Guentzel is a smart player, shifty but not a speed demon. Patric Hornquist never was a speed demon. Tanner Pearson is bigger guy. Grant, Sheahan, Wilson all are bigger guys.
Back in the back2back years, Trevor Daley was a great skater and passer, now you got guys like Jack Johnson and Jamie Oleksiak.
The Penguins can't and shouldn't be playing that same style of hockey that they played during those teams, because the roster and makeup of the team is much different. Look what Sully did taking over from Mike Johnston. I am not advocating Sullivan to be fired, I am advocating that he admits the changes and readjusts his strategies and have the Penguins play more down low, not rely so much on a transition game, and play more like...well the Caps do.
Right now they are a mess. And they are a square peg trying to force itself into a round hole that used to work for them.
And it wasn't just the awful 25 in that game you're talking about either. Too often, in too many games the exact things you mentioned pop up...that's even if they get that early lead.
Not sure what the answer is. Maybe the voice is stale already in the room, I don't know? Maybe there's too much tread on all the tires, I don't know? I sure hope the "it's early...it's only December" folks are right, but in previous seasons where that actually was the case, it "felt" different. You just knew they would turn it on and be the best team on the ice. I just don't have those same feelings about this team. Hope I'm wrong
I think you raise some good points ...... the last two Cup years we were faster then anyone else and teams couldn't overcome that style and started to emulate it ...... the teams that won the 1st three Cups for the Pens could play different ways and beat you at whatever way you wanted to play against us ..... now that we aren't as fast as every team, and some other teams are as fast as us or faster, we may need to play different styles depending on the opponent ...... we can still play fast but adjust breakouts, neutral zone play and dump ins, defense systems, etc. depending on the opponent ...... we definitely need to cut down on giveaways especially in the neutral zone AND we need to cut down on shots on goal against our goalie ..... if we keep on giving up 38-51 shots on goal per game, we are going to lose quite a few games.
We were 7-8-4 in our first 19 games this season, then since around Thanksgiving we have gone 8-4-2 so improvement ..... I think the game tonight against the Caps is important to see where we stand against a top team, whether we can adjust our game to them as needed, and to see how Murray does in goal ...... will he continue to show improvement ? ....... Hornqvist is said to be likely to play tonight and if so that should help.
Murray will get the start tonight.
Tall task
Hope he plays well and we stop stretch passing and support the puck
Tall task
Hope he plays well and we stop stretch passing and support the puck
Yeah, I mean he has to start playing well. He definitely was responsible for a lot of the issues to start this year. But again, Sid, Geno and Kessel are tied for 24th in scoring. That's not good enough. The defense (team) is giving up 40 shots in many games, that's not good enough.
DeSmith's numbers have been good enough that that record over the last so many games should have been better. It definitely has been a team effort.
As for Murray it is time for him rise up to 2 years ago. DeSmith has been good, but he has that Moose Hedburg feel to him.
To contend for a Cup this year, the Pens would need to improve in several areas as discussed and I suspect we will see a trade or two coming up in the next couple months to try and improve the team but regarding goaltending, DeSmith has played well and outplayed Murray so far but in the long term, DeSmith's upside is not at the level of Fleury or Murray's play in the Cup years IMO ...... so I'm sure the Pens are hoping Murray returns to his Cup year level of play as that would likely be the best situation from the goalie standpoint for them..... will he do it? .... seems unlikely but not impossible...... if Murray can't do it, we'll see if DeSmith can elevate his play even further.
But again, he seems to be another guy not in the Sully camp. Still, you are right Geno has been garbage and while I thought the Pens commanded the play in the 1st period, it is 0-0. The Caps are one team that can match the Pens for sniper goal scorers. We aren't scoring.
I am resigned to the fact that this could be the end, or this is just a long stretch of bad luck.
Not capitalizing on the 2 power plays in the 1st period hurt the Pens.
He tried to get it deep but the linesman got in the road and he couldn't dump it in.
Now he takes a penalty.
I understand that- but he was weak on the puck and it directly led to rush goals in both games
Should Letang and Doumilin have waited for the puck to be deep before trying to change?
Petterson earns his trade
Murray playing well but also a couple lucky bounces and effort to help
Murray playing well but also a couple lucky bounces and effort to help
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