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The Penguins...................................look a lot like the Penguins.

Sid is just so special. The rest of the cast is doing well. The defensive corps seems to have stabilized. And Matt Murray looks like what we all have seen from him in the past......
 
Guentzel should have been on a 3-4 year deal at roughly 4 mill a year bridge deal. Not sure why they jumped over that step, but he’s at least young and filling the net.


There is no chance, and I mean literally none, that Guentzel would have agreed to a deal like that. He actually probably left at least a little money on the table by signing this deal with the Pens now rather than waiting and trying to maximize the dollars.
 
Guentzel signed that deal knowing he will play the bulk of it with Crosby and to his credit he banks a lot of opportunities Crosby creates for him.
 
It's the only Pens message board (other than possibly the hockeysfuture board) that I know of and there are posters on there that appear to know hockey much better than I do. Some good discussions on there.

Pensburgh is a decent blog you may have missed
 
Murray playing well again...............
Icf1.gif
 
Muzz looked pretty good.

Goalieman, just a question to you, should he make himself small like that to try and find the puck, or stand tall and maintain his angles and trust his positioning on the 1st goal? Not nitpicking, just wonder what is the correct way to play that.

On the whole, he looks really good, he looks like the Murray that won 2 cups.
Nice run right now, this is a good time to start turning it up.

That's a very good and interesting question but I think if you ask multiple goalies or goalie coaches that question you would probably get some differences of opinion on how Murray should have played that complex situation.

I'll try to explain my opinion .......

- First, two premises ..... 1) You always want to be on the best angle/position at all times to have the best chance of making the save .... so one question is, was he in the best position from where the puck was eventually shot at the time it was shot? .... and ..... 2) You always want to see the puck, if possible, or the chances of making the save becomes less so looking for the puck is very important and advisable to me, so I was fine with Murray looking for the puck ...... if you don't see the puck clearly when it is shot, all you can do is try to get in the best position where you think the puck is coming and hope it hits you or hope you see it on the way in so you can react to it.

- OK, so on the play you are talking about, there was a battle for the puck way out in the corner along the boards near the goal line to Murray's right .... his options at that point were to be on the post standing up on his skates watching for a pass or shot out of the corner or get down in the reverse-VH position on the ice on the post which is best used for wrap arounds and now popular to defend against bad angle shots ...... either is OK at that point, he chose to go reverse-VH, I would have preferred he stand up on the post because it was more likely there would have been a pass out of the corner then a shot on goal and I think it is better and easier to change positions in response to a pass out of the corner when you are standing on your skates then when you are down on your pads, but he was OK in either position ......

- Now the problem starts ...... the puck came out of the corner to an opponent in the lower circle to Murray's right between the face-off dot and the lower edge of the circle (nearer the goal line) and was shot from about one foot inside the lower circle and about 12 feet or so from the goalie....... Murray was screened and bent down to look around the screen to find the puck when at the same time the shooter shot a perfect shot over Murray's right (near) shoulder about one inch under the cross bar and a couple inches inside the near post ...... the shot was basically perfect and likely beats Murray even if he isn't bent over as in the reverse-VH position the goalie is vulnerable to shots over the near shoulder (there is almost always some opening) ...... on wrap arounds and close in bad angle shots, that opening over the near shoulder is not usually a problem as the shooter can't elevate the puck and get it through that opening, however, the farther away from the goalie and the farther from the goal line the shooter gets, the more vulnerable the goalie gets to a shot over the near shoulder when in the reverse-VH position or a shot to the far side.

- When the puck came out from the corner into the circle, it would no longer be considered a bad angle shot and the goalie being on the post either standing or in the reverse-VH would no longer be on the best angle or position for the shot ..... when the puck came out into the circle, Murray needed to transition off the post and out of the reverse-VH position going out square toward the puck to cut down the angle to prevent a goal over his shoulder ...... unfortunately, he was in a precarious situation with a screen in front of him making it difficult for him to come out off the post toward the shooter to cut the angle down, also he couldn't see the puck, and a perfect shot went in over his near shoulder when he bent down to look for the puck ..... I think it goes in even if he doesn't bend down and I have no problem with him trying to look for the puck as he did.
 
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Pens 6 Blues 1

Pens have won 5 in a row

4 power play goals against the Blues

Murray another really good game in goal

In the 5 games since his return, Murray has given up no goals over the glove hand

Rust and Maatta both hurt and did not practice today ..... both said to be day to day.

Next game against the Wild tomorrow at 6PM ..... Pitt vs Stanford game should be over by then.
 
That's a very good and interesting question but I think if you ask multiple goalies or goalie coaches that question you would probably get some differences of opinion on how Murray should have played that complex situation.

I'll try to explain my opinion .......

- First, two premises ..... 1) You always want to be on the best angle/position at all times to have the best chance of making the save .... so one question is, was he in the best position from where the puck was eventually shot at the time it was shot? .... and ..... 2) You always want to see the puck, if possible, or the chances of making the save becomes less so looking for the puck is very important and advisable to me, so I was fine with Murray looking for the puck ...... if you don't see the puck clearly when it is shot, all you can do is try to get in the best position where you think the puck is coming and hope it hits you or hope you see it on the way in so you can react to it.

- OK, so on the play you are talking about, there was a battle for the puck way out in the corner along the boards near the goal line to Murray's right .... his options at that point were to be on the post standing up on his skates watching for a pass or shot out of the corner or get down in the reverse-VH position on the ice on the post which is best used for wrap arounds and now popular to defend against bad angle shots ...... either is OK at that point, he chose to go reverse-VH, I would have preferred he stand up on the post because it was more likely there would have been a pass out of the corner then a shot on goal and I think it is better and easier to change positions in response to a pass out of the corner when you are standing on your skates then when you are down on your pads, but he was OK in either position ......

- Now the problem starts ...... the puck came out of the corner to an opponent in the lower circle to Murray's right between the face-off dot and the lower edge of the circle (nearer the goal line) and was shot from about one foot inside the lower circle and about 12 feet or so from the goalie....... Murray was screened and bent down to look around the screen to find the puck when at the same time the shooter shot a perfect shot over Murray's right (near) shoulder about one inch under the cross bar and a couple inches inside the near post ...... the shot was basically perfect and likely beats Murray even if he isn't bent over as in the reverse-VH position the goalie is vulnerable to shots over the near shoulder (there is almost always some opening) ...... on wrap arounds and close in bad angle shots, that opening over the near shoulder is not usually a problem as the shooter can't elevate the puck and get it through that opening, however, the farther away from the goalie and the farther from the goal line the shooter gets, the more vulnerable the goalie gets to a shot over the near shoulder when in the reverse-VH position or a shot to the far side.

- When the puck came out from the corner into the circle, it would no longer be considered a bad angle shot and the goalie being on the post either standing or in the reverse-VH would no longer be on the best angle or position for the shot ..... when the puck came out into the circle, Murray needed to transition off the post and out of the reverse-VH position going out square toward the puck to cut down the angle to prevent a goal over his shoulder ...... unfortunately, he was in a precarious situation with a screen in front of him making it difficult for him to come out off the post toward the shooter to cut the angle down, also he couldn't see the puck, and a perfect shot went in over his near shoulder when he bent down to look for the puck ..... I think it goes in even if he doesn't bend down and I have no problem with him trying to look for the puck as he did.
Last night, he looked really athletic, he seems to have his confidence back. The goal, which no goalie would have stopped without an incredible and lucky play, he did almost get twisting himself into a pretzel. It is great to see him moving so freely.
 
Last night, he looked really athletic, he seems to have his confidence back. The goal, which no goalie would have stopped without an incredible and lucky play, he did almost get twisting himself into a pretzel. It is great to see him moving so freely.

Yeah, since his injury healed, his movement has been much better which has helped and also so far he hasn't given up any goals over the glove hand since he has come back ...... if he can stay healthy and continue his current play, it would really help the Pens chances.
 
Here's something though that really explains the first half of this season. I now know how the modern folks in hockey media have these advanced stats and a disdain for such a simple metric like +/-. But Sid Crosby has 46 points, Geno Malkin has what, 37 points? Sid is a PLUS 16. Geno is a MINUS 14. They both play on the same powerplay, so if a shorty is scored against them, most likely it goes against both's minus. Dumolin is a PLUS 22. No other Penguins is worse than a MINUS 8. So how is Geno a MINUS 14???? It just goes to show you how poorly he has played this year.
 
Here's something though that really explains the first half of this season. I now know how the modern folks in hockey media have these advanced stats and a disdain for such a simple metric like +/-. But Sid Crosby has 46 points, Geno Malkin has what, 37 points? Sid is a PLUS 16. Geno is a MINUS 14. They both play on the same powerplay, so if a shorty is scored against them, most likely it goes against both's minus. Dumolin is a PLUS 22. No other Penguins is worse than a MINUS 8. So how is Geno a MINUS 14???? It just goes to show you how poorly he has played this year.
He’s a problem no doubt
 
To be fair though, people only have a disdain for +/- because it is a really, really dumb way to measure what it attempts to be measuring.
Maybe Joe. But not in this case. Sid is + 28 over Geno. That means the other team has scored 28 more goals when Geno is on the ice rather than Sid. And Sid is usually matched up against the better lines. In this case the stat is extremely telling. No more the case was the one goal against St Louis where Geno made a turnover at the top of the blueline and the other team was off to the races on an odd man break.
 
Maybe Joe. But not in this case. Sid is + 28 over Geno. That means the other team has scored 28 more goals when Geno is on the ice rather than Sid. And Sid is usually matched up against the better lines. In this case the stat is extremely telling. No more the case was the one goal against St Louis where Geno made a turnover at the top of the blueline and the other team was off to the races on an odd man break.

Without looking it up it could be a product of who they’re d pairings are. That said, if you watch Mallon is the laziest player on the ice right now. It’s nothing new but it is getting to the point of the season where he needs to step it up, specifically the all star break.
 
Without looking it up it could be a product of who they’re d pairings are. That said, if you watch Mallon is the laziest player on the ice right now. It’s nothing new but it is getting to the point of the season where he needs to step it up, specifically the all star break.
Again, in this case it is a very telling stat. Despite advanced stat geeks like Joe, this is not that hard. Crosby is a +16 right now. Then Pens have a goal differential of +18.

Both Sid and Geno play the PP, play the 1st powerplay, so any of the shorthanded goals scored goes against both guys likely.

But...there is no other forward that is worse than a -5. Kessel is a minus 3. Hornquist is a -1 . Sheahan is a -5, Brassard a -2. No other forward is a minus. Again, Geno is a MINUS 14!!!!!

Dumolin is a PLUS 23, one of the best in the league. Letang is a plus 11. Olli Maata is a friggin Plus 4. Jack Johnson is the only Dman with a real bad minus, that is MINUS 8.

My point here, and it is not like I hate Geno, I like him and realize how great he has been, but he has been a complete black hole. Himself. Not his teammates. He has made horrendous turnovers and a lot of boo boo faces when he does, he is not hustling to get back to make up for it, he is pouting.

The Pens are 8-2 in there last 10, but so has the Caps, and the Bluejackets are 7-2-1, the Islanders 7-2-1. So all of this, and they are just essentially holding serve.
 
Again, in this case it is a very telling stat. Despite advanced stat geeks like Joe, this is not that hard. Crosby is a +16 right now. Then Pens have a goal differential of +18.

Both Sid and Geno play the PP, play the 1st powerplay, so any of the shorthanded goals scored goes against both guys likely.

But...there is no other forward that is worse than a -5. Kessel is a minus 3. Hornquist is a -1 . Sheahan is a -5, Brassard a -2. No other forward is a minus. Again, Geno is a MINUS 14!!!!!

Dumolin is a PLUS 23, one of the best in the league. Letang is a plus 11. Olli Maata is a friggin Plus 4. Jack Johnson is the only Dman with a real bad minus, that is MINUS 8.

My point here, and it is not like I hate Geno, I like him and realize how great he has been, but he has been a complete black hole. Himself. Not his teammates. He has made horrendous turnovers and a lot of boo boo faces when he does, he is not hustling to get back to make up for it, he is pouting.

The Pens are 8-2 in there last 10, but so has the Caps, and the Bluejackets are 7-2-1, the Islanders 7-2-1. So all of this, and they are just essentially holding serve.

Geno has been playing better as of late. IMO not everyone is as self motivated as Sid is. I think all the success the Pens have had make it harder for a guy like Geno to focus so early in a long season (human nature). I think he'll get it in high gear as the playoffs roll around.
 
Again, in this case it is a very telling stat. Despite advanced stat geeks like Joe, this is not that hard. Crosby is a +16 right now. Then Pens have a goal differential of +18.

Both Sid and Geno play the PP, play the 1st powerplay, so any of the shorthanded goals scored goes against both guys likely.

But...there is no other forward that is worse than a -5. Kessel is a minus 3. Hornquist is a -1 . Sheahan is a -5, Brassard a -2. No other forward is a minus. Again, Geno is a MINUS 14!!!!!

Dumolin is a PLUS 23, one of the best in the league. Letang is a plus 11. Olli Maata is a friggin Plus 4. Jack Johnson is the only Dman with a real bad minus, that is MINUS 8.

My point here, and it is not like I hate Geno, I like him and realize how great he has been, but he has been a complete black hole. Himself. Not his teammates. He has made horrendous turnovers and a lot of boo boo faces when he does, he is not hustling to get back to make up for it, he is pouting.

The Pens are 8-2 in there last 10, but so has the Caps, and the Bluejackets are 7-2-1, the Islanders 7-2-1. So all of this, and they are just essentially holding serve.

I’m not trying to argue, guy.
 
Do you really need to rely on that bogus number to figure out that he's sucked all season?
Joe, I guess it ain't that bogus then is it? Look, you are a guy who never played a sport, just buries himself in spreadsheets, getting off on all kinds of obscure statistic. I just merely brought up the amazing stat that Sidney Crosby is a positive 30 goals over Geno Malkin this season, which is barely half over, both playing on the PP and none of Geno's wingers is even close to his numbers. Why can't you just accept this for what it is? Not bogus, it is reality. But aside from the obvious, why? Why has he been that bad.
 
I've been seeing a lot of "Hurr durr you've never played a sport u can't offer analysis" stuff here lately.

How about we leave that type of comment in the 90s where it belongs?
 
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I've been seeing a lot of "Hurr durr you've never played a sport u can't offer analysis" stuff here lately.

How about we leave that type of comment in the 90s where it belongs?

Im sure some of the details of playing a team sport at a high level are hard to appreciate by folks who didnt but in general I agree. Making observations about strategy, personnel etc is not rocket science and in fact is part of the "entertainment" value of sports.
 
I've been seeing a lot of "Hurr durr you've never played a sport u can't offer analysis" stuff here lately.

How about we leave that type of comment in the 90s where it belongs?
Ok, I will give you that. I hate that too and didn't want to go there. But there are some fans that have their heads so far up new analytics stats butts, that they no longer actually seem to watch the game.

It is not like I am a math luddite. I was a friggin QA Manager at one point of my life and had to be able to set up procedures and actions based on statistical trends. But I also seen "Statistical Geeks" get so wrapped up in the mathematical translations of the numbers that they would fail to see the forest through the trees.

Actually, this was something so entirely out of whack, that while simplistic and dismissive by these new advanced analytics, this was a flashing red light saying "DOES NOT COMPUTE!"
 
Ok, I will give you that. I hate that too and didn't want to go there. But there are some fans that have their heads so far up new analytics stats butts, that they no longer actually seem to watch the game.

It is not like I am a math luddite. I was a friggin QA Manager at one point of my life and had to be able to set up procedures and actions based on statistical trends. But I also seen "Statistical Geeks" get so wrapped up in the mathematical translations of the numbers that they would fail to see the forest through the trees.

Actually, this was something so entirely out of whack, that while simplistic and dismissive by these new advanced analytics, this was a flashing red light saying "DOES NOT COMPUTE!"

In general, the +/- stat can be misleading as to how a player is performing for multiple reasons and advanced analytics although not perfect are a much better indicator .... but, as you point out, Malkin's really terrible +/- certainly makes you wonder about his play ...... the "eye test", if you know what you are looking at (which you do), says he is playing poorly ...... in addition, Malkin's advanced stats are really poor this year compared to his previous years ...... no matter how you look at it, Geno is playing poorly and needs to snap out of it ......

One other simple stat that concerns me about Geno is that although it is not necessarily a new problem he is taking too many penalties ..... he leads the Pens in penalty minutes ..... come on Geno, you have to play a little smarter.

Murray in goal tonight against the Rangers.
 
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Joe, I guess it ain't that bogus then is it?


Of course it is. Even a blind squirrel, er, a stupid stat gets it right sometimes. A stopped clock is right twice every day. I mean I understand that back when you played in the NHL people gave +/- a lot more credence, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people expressed plenty of issues with +/- long before anyone ever heard of advanced metrics.

As to the why, I don't know. I'm not sure that anyone does. But anyone who has watched him play this season knows that he has played poorly. And you don't need +/- or some other advanced metric to see it. At some level, what difference does it make why? I mean if one of us was the GM or the coach and we were trying to fix things going forward then it would be really important. But the last time I checked neither one of us was either of those things. What matters is that he's been bad all season.
 
Dominating win tonight on national TV, 7-2 over Rangers. I still don’t know how Guentzel got the puck into the net on this one. What a shot.

They categorized it as a wrist shot, so I’m assuming there was no deflection by Crosby or Pettersson.

In the picture you can see a Penguin player and a Ranger defenseman (Marc Staal) right in front of the goalie Lundqvist ...... the shot by Guentzel deflected off Staal's stick right in front of Lundqvist and changed directions ...... the goalie had no chance to stop the deflection and the goal was credited to Guentzel as no Penguin touched the puck after he shot it.
 
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That was a weird game last night. The Pens did not play particularly well. I think you will have heard Sullivan say that. Geno did play well, the best I have seen him play in awhile, but he still had some glaring TO's. Sid was "meh". Kessel was double "meh". Letang was simply spectacularly. Murray was good, but not great.

And the Pens came away with a 7-2 win. They are really finding their groove. They were outshot. Lundquist was horrible. But this is what good teams do, they dispense bad teams with ease, even not playing well.

I think the best comment I can offer is, "they look line the Penguins again"
 
That was a weird game last night. The Pens did not play particularly well. I think you will have heard Sullivan say that. Geno did play well, the best I have seen him play in awhile, but he still had some glaring TO's. Sid was "meh". Kessel was double "meh". Letang was simply spectacularly. Murray was good, but not great.

And the Pens came away with a 7-2 win. They are really finding their groove. They were outshot. Lundquist was horrible. But this is what good teams do, they dispense bad teams with ease, even not playing well.

I think the best comment I can offer is, "they look line the Penguins again"
I’m still having a hard time watching. I tried last night. I had it on, but it was mostly background noise. And I’m an NHL guy. I grew up watching and playing.

Just curious, did you watch the winter classic? I flipped right by it and preferred watching college football exhibition games that I swore I was going to boycott. The NHL has a problem. I suppose it’s always been a problem. For most people, If your team isn’t playing, you’re not watching. And if your team is playing, you’re not paying much attention until March.
 
I’m still having a hard time watching. I tried last night. I had it on, but it was mostly background noise. And I’m an NHL guy. I grew up watching and playing.

Just curious, did you watch the winter classic? I flipped right by it and preferred watching college football exhibition games that I swore I was going to boycott. The NHL has a problem. I suppose it’s always been a problem. For most people, If your team isn’t playing, you’re not watching. And if your team is playing, you’re not paying much attention until March.
The problem with the Winter Classic for me this year, is I am getting tired of seeing Chicago in it (hey NHL, they aren't relevant anymore) and Boston, plus they went up head to head against my 2nd favorite college football team, and that is "whoever is playing Penn State". So no, didn't watch much of it.

Plus these games no longer feel special. Even when the Pens played the Flyers last year in one (they will play this year again in Philly) it is no longer so special.
 
The problem with the Winter Classic for me this year, is I am getting tired of seeing Chicago in it (hey NHL, they aren't relevant anymore) and Boston, plus they went up head to head against my 2nd favorite college football team, and that is "whoever is playing Penn State". So no, didn't watch much of it.

Plus these games no longer feel special. Even when the Pens played the Flyers last year in one (they will play this year again in Philly) it is no longer so special.
But if even the biggest fans can’t watch Chicago and Boston in a gimmicky game, maybe it’s just not an entertaining sport for tv.

I guess it really doesn’t matter. You’re mindset is like mine with EPL. I don’t care who watches, who likes, and who dislikes. All that matters to me is what’s i enjoy.

I’m actually annoyed a bit now because we’re going to potentially start seeing more people wearing Chelsea jerseys now due to Pulisic going there. Chelsea is my team and I really don’t care to see people jumping on the bandwagon.
 
But if even the biggest fans can’t watch Chicago and Boston in a gimmicky game, maybe it’s just not an entertaining sport for tv.

I guess it really doesn’t matter. You’re mindset is like mine with EPL. I don’t care who watches, who likes, and who dislikes. All that matters to me is what’s i enjoy.

I’m actually annoyed a bit now because we’re going to potentially start seeing more people wearing Chelsea jerseys now due to Pulisic going there. Chelsea is my team and I really don’t care to see people jumping on the bandwagon.

There is one difference for me between EPL and NHL fans. Most of us, I mean I was a hockey fan and a Penguin fan when I was a little kid. I grew up with rooting for them. Not sure how old you are, but most 30-40 year old EPL fans just adapted their team in the last 3-5 years at the most.

As for the NHL, I am a hockey fan, and an avid Penguin fan, but yeah I am not reaching to watch Calgary-Edmonton in January. But I can tell you what I did watch yesterday and have followed and look forward to every year is the World Jr's. (hahahahaha WOE CANADA!!!!) so my scope with hockey is also outside the NHL.
 
There is one difference for me between EPL and NHL fans. Most of us, I mean I was a hockey fan and a Penguin fan when I was a little kid. I grew up with rooting for them. Not sure how old you are, but most 30-40 year old EPL fans just adapted their team in the last 3-5 years at the most.

As for the NHL, I am a hockey fan, and an avid Penguin fan, but yeah I am not reaching to watch Calgary-Edmonton in January. But I can tell you what I did watch yesterday and have followed and look forward to every year is the World Jr's. (hahahahaha WOE CANADA!!!!) so my scope with hockey is also outside the NHL.
You’ve described me to a tee. I listened to pens game on the radio as a kid and never missed one. I recorded Mario’s radio replays on cassette.
 
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But if even the biggest fans can’t watch Chicago and Boston in a gimmicky game, maybe it’s just not an entertaining sport for tv.
This is an issue for all of the major leagues and college fb and bb, more and more people don't care about games not involving their team. I have no interest in watching the Blackhawks and Bruins play anywhere, same goes for Yankees vs. Red Sox, Cowboys vs. Eagles, Michigan vs. Ohio State, Duke vs. North Carolina or Alabama vs. Georgia when I have access to so many other things to waste my time watching or doing.
 
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You’ve described me to a tee. I listened to pens game on the radio as a kid and never missed one. I recorded Mario’s radio replays on cassette.
LOL. I used to do that too! Recap of the goals with the Mike Lange calls, a few years ago, I found a cassette where I had the replays of a Pens/Canadians game from like 1988....it was great.
 
This is an issue for all of the major leagues and college fb and bb, more and more people don't care about games not involving their team. I have interest in watching the Blackhawks and Bruins play anywhere, same goes for Yankees vs. Red Sox, Cowboys vs. Eagles, Michigan vs. Ohio State, Duke vs. North Carolina or Alabama vs. Georgia when I have access to so many other things to waste my time watching or doing.
I think football is the one sport more immune to others. For one, with so few games, every game has some degree of importance. Two, it is heavily bet. Three, especially in the NFL, Fantasy Football really drives up otherwise casual fans interest. Plus it is almost conditioned behavior. "oooh, a football game is on".
 
You’ve described me to a tee. I listened to pens game on the radio as a kid and never missed one. I recorded Mario’s radio replays on cassette.

That brings back memories...One more than one occasion, my parents wanted to take the family out to dinner and I refused to miss a Penguins game, so I shoved a transistor radio in my pocket and listened with an earphone. People probably thought I had a hearing aid.
 
Penguins en fuego!
3-0 after 2 periods, Pens dominating in all facets.
3 goals and 3 posts.
Jets aren't a bad team and are getting dominated.
 
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I guess the “they’re done” talk can be put on hold for a little while.
 
Was impossible to miss a game as a kid when Lemieux played .
Will be in first place tomorrow after they win and Capitals lose .
 
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