OT: PIAA Volleyball Playoffs

[Fk_Pitt]

I’d rather watch a tight end run 150 yards against Pitt every Saturday in perpetuity rather than ref one high school or aau volleyball match.

Can’t be as bad as soccer. The parents are awful. Then again, I’ve dabbled in other sport like wrestling, etc and they are all nuts.

Love the story about Pep guardiola, the worlds best pro soccer coach and best soccer mind alive, watching his sons youth soccer match in New York. He was just a quiet Dad on the sideline keeping to himself and none of these goofy American parents knew who he was. Only in the US would a guy of his stature be unrecognizable. The ref didn’t show for the match so he volunteered to ref it. After about 30 minutes of crazy abuse from all the parents yelling and screaming and telling him he didn’t know the game, they somehow finally caught wind of who he was and calmed down and by match end were all taking selfies with him.

 

[pittdan77]

They aren't that young, they lose Lyst for sure, and a couple back row players too.
I'll give you PO being the more experienced, battle tested team. They put a full compliment of seniors out there.
They will be hard to beat.

As far as getting rattled, PO will do that to you. They are a very good serving team, and Hazleton causes teams to over adjust creating opportunities for others. When we played Beaver, Lyst had a tendency to over hit her spikes and that continued in this game.

Freeport won't be nearly as good next year, losing 4 senior starters and moving up to 3A again. Hampton, North Catholic, Mars, Armstrong, etc. are far better than the teams they faced in section this year.

It sounded like Beaver had a bunch of Sophomores in the starting lineup. I don't know. They're pretty good. I was impressed at how well they covered and moved. Very good VB sense. My understanding is that PO's coach might be taking the State College job. I forget the connection but their talented freshmen middle (JV) is friends with my daughter and said that might happen.

I was surprised at how many Lyst hit long. My kid has a tendency to do that when she doesn't stay behind the ball. Didn't look like she was elevating well, either. Maybe she's injured? Not sure.

Freeport always has good players so I'm sure they'll be competitive regardless.

 

[pittdan77]

Can’t be as bad as soccer. The parents are awful. Then again, I’ve dabbled in other sport like wrestling, etc and they are all nuts.

Love the story about Pep guardiola, the worlds best pro soccer coach and best soccer mind alive, watching his sons youth soccer match in New York. He was just a quiet Dad on the sideline keeping to himself and none of these goofy American parents knew who he was. Only in the US would a guy of his stature be unrecognizable. The ref didn’t show for the match so he volunteered to ref it. After about 30 minutes of crazy abuse from all the parents yelling and screaming and telling him he didn’t know the game, they somehow finally caught wind of who he was and calmed down and by match end were all taking selfies with him.

I think the culture around VB is less tolerant of fan abuse. It certainly isn't tolerated at the club level and there is so much carryover that most fans understand. Only times I've seen fans get wild is if the coach is being pushy about questioning calls. Put it this way, it sure isn't like officiating basketball.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I think the culture around VB is less tolerant of fan abuse. It certainly isn't tolerated at the club level and there is so much carryover that most fans understand. Only times I've seen fans get wild is if the coach is being pushy about questioning calls. Put it this way, it sure isn't like officiating basketball.

I think reffing hoops and wrestling is challenging because of the educational and socioeconomic demographics of the parents. People don’t want to say it out loud, but the rural (wrestling) and city(basketball) often brings a bit of an unrefined element into the gymnasium.

club Vball and club soccer are similar, and abuse is often not tolerated and most parents don’t abuse anyway. But you certainly get some crazies here and there.

But when I said soccer above, I was referring to HS and in house community based 8 year old stuff. Lots of crazies at both.

 

[bellvision1]

Wonder how many of their girls play for PGH Elite? You don't have that sort of success without a ton of offseason playing time.

Several of the NA girls played for Revolution. Heidi Miller is the club director and retired from coaching NA around 2021.

 

[pittdan77]

Several of the NA girls played for Revolution. Heidi Miller is the club director and retired from coaching NA around 2021.

Forgot about that club. Makes sense.

Speaking of club, both West Branch and Phillipsburg are only a few miles apart and playing in the finals on Saturday. Many of the players on those two teams are active in club. Of course West Branch runs SLAM and limits membership to their school and PO players. I know Reese played out in PGH but last year played for Happy Volley with a couple of others. Girls also play for Horseshoe and Ridgetop. Local district and conference all-star teams are almost exclusively club players. Amazing what the clubs do for prep teams.

 

[pittdan77]

I think reffing hoops and wrestling is challenging because of the educational and socioeconomic demographics of the parents. People don’t want to say it out loud, but the rural (wrestling) and city(basketball) often brings a bit of an unrefined element into the gymnasium.

club Vball and club soccer are similar, and abuse is often not tolerated and most parents don’t abuse anyway. But you certainly get some crazies here and there.

But when I said soccer above, I was referring to HS and in house community based 8 year old stuff. Lots of crazies at both.

Oh, you should come to a rural basketball game. People packed shoulder to shoulder into hot little band boxes. Smells as bad as it sounds. Truthfully, I think basketball is tough to call no matter where you're at. You're not wrong about wrestling. I've only been to a couple of matches and know next to nothing about the sport but it seems like it requires a lot of judgement calls and people just lose their minds.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Forgot about that club. Makes sense.

Speaking of club, both West Branch and Phillipsburg are only a few miles apart and playing in the finals on Saturday. Many of the players on those two teams are active in club. Of course West Branch runs SLAM and limits membership to their school and PO players. I know Reese played out in PGH but last year played for Happy Volley with a couple of others. Girls also play for Horseshoe and Ridgetop. Local district and conference all-star teams are almost exclusively club players. Amazing what the clubs do for prep teams.

Travel/club teams greatly benefit all HS sports!
The players get much better coaching and play much better competition. They also benefit from playing on a roster of similarly talented players.

HS is a crap shoot for talent. If you're lucky and several talented players live in your district, you do well. If not, you struggle.

 

[pittdan77]

Travel/club teams greatly benefit all HS sports!
The players get much better coaching and play much better competition. They also benefit from playing on a roster of similarly talented players.

HS is a crap shoot for talent. If you're lucky and several talented players live in your district, you do well. If not, you struggle.

Yeah, seems like your success is tied pretty closely to how many girls participate in club. Only to a point but it definitely seems to matter.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Yeah, seems like your success is tied pretty closely to how many girls participate in club. Only to a point but it definitely seems to matter.

it's glaring in softball.
Take Avonworth. Every starter is a travel ball player.
Our team has 2.
The girls who don't play travel cannot hit the pitching, they never see it and can't catch up to it.
Defensively, it shows up big too. Don't know the game and don't have the refined skills.
It's why college coaches recruit travel ball exclusively. We've had a number of them tell us they don't care a bit about HS competition and pay no attention to it.
It's all about travel for getting a scholarship!

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Travel/club teams greatly benefit all HS sports!
The players get much better coaching and play much better competition. They also benefit from playing on a roster of similarly talented players.

HS is a crap shoot for talent. If you're lucky and several talented players live in your district, you do well. If not, you struggle.

In HS, you get a two week preseason (occasionally one week in some years). Then the games start, and because there are often three games per week, you’re mostly doing recovery practice sessions in between the games. So there isn’t really any player development or significant coaching going on. There’s simply no time. Players get what they need at the club level. And that’s only if they are lucky enough to be at a good club with good coaching and good teammates and good opponents.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Yeah, seems like your success is tied pretty closely to how many girls participate in club. Only to a point but it definitely seems to matter.

In AAAA soccer and a few AAA schools, you start with 50 players who all play club. Then you have to cut 10-15 of them. So you end up with 36-40 players, but only 15-18 of those contribute at the varsity level. The other 20 or so all think they should be playing because they are all playing year round at a club. The problem is half of these clubs are useless and don’t develop players. The soccer IQ and ability isn’t quite there with these players and there’s no time for coaches to spend on them. And every game seems to come down to 1 goal so it’s virtually impossible to play the kids who need developed. I feel bad for them because they are mostly all great kids. But what you want to tell them is move to the AA district next door. You’ll start there and might even be a WPIAL All Star.

 

[FreeportPanther]

In AAAA soccer and a few AAA schools, you start with 50 players who all play club. Then you have to cut 10-15 of them. So you end up with 36-40 players, but only 15-18 of those contribute at the varsity level. The other 20 or so all think they should be playing because they are all playing year round at a club. The problem is half of these clubs are useless and don’t develop players. The soccer IQ and ability isn’t quite there with these players and there’s no time for coaches to spend on them. And every game seems to come down to 1 goal so it’s virtually impossible to play the kids who need developed. I feel bad for them because they are mostly all great kids. But what you want to tell them is move to the AA district next door. You’ll start there and might even be a WPIAL All Star.

It's very tough to break into the starting lineup at ANY of the huge enrollment HS's.
Lots of good players don't get a chance. Except perhaps at JV.
It is what it is though. The rules frown on transfers, and if you're transferring to play a sport and sacrificing a better education in some cases, is that the right move?? I don't think so.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

It's very tough to break into the starting lineup at ANY of the huge enrollment HS's.
Lots of good players don't get a chance. Except perhaps at JV.
It is what it is though. The rules frown on transfers, and if you're transferring to play a sport and sacrificing a better education in some cases, is that the right move?? I don't think so.

I agree. It’s quite an accomplishment for these kids. Especially at a place like Seneca Valley or NA…who have almost twice the enrollment of the other big schools. I do wonder how many NA kids end up at a place like Avonworth and North Catholic. I’d bet a few per year.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Years ago my daughter had some friends on a mid level club team. A mid level team will have some athletes but the bottom of the roster has some very weak players. So there was this little girl, incredibly sweet kid, she’d get into the games for a couple minutes per half. Her mom would be on the sideline yelling “make it happen” continuously, but everyone knew that it never would. But everyone rooted for the kid at the time. Well at the end of the season the poor kid got cut. Even from that team.

Fast forward a few years and the better players from that team were fighting like crazy to get varsity minutes on their HS teams, but that little girl was scoring 50 goals for some class A team and receiving All WPIAL honors. Her name was in the paper every week and there were a couple big write ups on her. It used to anger all those other parents from that Club team…but I got a chuckle over it because the girl loved the sport and had her struggles…but she found her level and I think that’s awesome.

 

[pittdan77]

The problem is half of these clubs are useless and don’t develop players.

These two things are both very real and I think it's the caveat you get with club vs. prep. In volleyball, there are a couple of small clubs that are run by prep coaches that are more about their own vanity but it's more likely a club will have a bunch of teams and only pay attention to the one or two top teams. So a club player on one of the forgotten rosters isn't getting sound coaching or learning the finer aspects of the game.

Fast forward a few years and the better players from that team were fighting like crazy to get varsity minutes on their HS teams, but that little girl was scoring 50 goals for some class A team and receiving All WPIAL honors.

Having a kid at a small, single A school, I can absolutely attest to this sort of thing happening. You can be a superstar in certain areas because the competition is so weak. We've run into some players that start for their school as freshmen that my daughter didn't think much of when she ran up against them in club. Contrast that with one of her club teammates that is only in her second year ever of competitive volleyball and she's elevated to starting varsity as a freshmen and made the club's premier team because she's had proper training and works her tail off. One of the weirder things I've run into is that PIAA District 5 has some really good volleyball programs and as an extension, most of the smaller teams participate in the Inter-County Conference, which West Branch won. Of course, as I've said prior, there are some very good clubs out here that focus on development.

 

[pittdan77]

It's very tough to break into the starting lineup at ANY of the huge enrollment HS's.
Lots of good players don't get a chance. Except perhaps at JV.
It is what it is though. The rules frown on transfers, and if you're transferring to play a sport and sacrificing a better education in some cases, is that the right move?? I don't think so.

One of my daughter's club teammates didn't even try out for her HS team at a much bigger school. Her sister played club, too, and could never make the school roster. They're both very talented but with the politics involved the coach never gave the older daughter a chance. The younger decided to play another fall sport which really made the coach mad but here she is playing club again this fall. Just a talented athlete. Not like they've suffered because of the embarrassment of riches but he hasn't broken through. Although, he has a MS girl that I think will be a D1 prospect. Has the size and is very talented. Guess we'll see.

 

[FreeportPanther]

I watched that PO/Trinity match.
It was a war, but although Trinity had excellent defense, they had no answer for Hazleton in the end.
They could keep it close, and they dug some amazing shots, but PO kept going back to the well of #24 and sooner or later she either powered it down or hit a sweet softie to open wood.

PO wins 3-1 but it was much close than that. Trinity didn't have the offensive weapons the PO had. Granville had a good game for PO to compliment Hazleton.
Glad to see them win. They've had some tough luck in the state playoffs.

 

[CMUandPitt]

Seven in a row for NA.

Crazy.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Seven in a row for NA.

Crazy.

That is nuts. They have made the PIAA a farmers league. Moon won today in girls soccer and they are starting to do the same thing, albeit in AAA. But they were also winning in the highest class too. (AAAA).

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Seven in a row for NA.

Crazy.

If they win again next year they'll tie Norwin's record.

 

[pittdan77]

I watched that PO/Trinity match.
It was a war, but although Trinity had excellent defense, they had no answer for Hazleton in the end.
They could keep it close, and they dug some amazing shots, but PO kept going back to the well of #24 and sooner or later she either powered it down or hit a sweet softie to open wood.

PO wins 3-1 but it was much close than that. Trinity didn't have the offensive weapons the PO had. Granville had a good game for PO to compliment Hazleton.
Glad to see them win. They've had some tough luck in the state playoffs.

Our club director went out to the Pitt game with us and he was streaming the game on his phone so we kept up with the highlights. I'm happy for PO because my daughter's friend is in that program (she had to miss the Pitt game with us Saturday to go to the finals). They're not going to be back next year but it was a fun ride for them.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Our club director went out to the Pitt game with us and he was streaming the game on his phone so we kept up with the highlights. I'm happy for PO because my daughter's friend is in that program (she had to miss the Pitt game with us Saturday to go to the finals). They're not going to be back next year but it was a fun ride for them.

Yes, it is virtually impossible for a smaller school to win back to back state titles.
With seniors graduating, few have the "bench" to simply reload that quickly.
Only giants like NA or private schools who can look around have a shot of doing that.

We had our VB banquet last night. Spoke to coach.
I asked him about the net in the Punxsutawny gym and he confirmed all of our suspicions that it was too high.

The girls complained about it, and he brought it up to the officials. Their response was they KNEW it was too high, but there was nothing they could do about it!!! Imagine a response like that in a State playoff game???

Our hitters aren't that tall, and a net that is even 2" too high makes a huge difference. Our hits were grazing the tape or just not making it over all through the match. The trajectory was off too, having to hit up! Not saying we would have beaten PO, but I doubt if they sweep us with a regulation court!
Oh well, water under the bridge now.

 

[pittdan77]

Yes, it is virtually impossible for a smaller school to win back to back state titles.
With seniors graduating, few have the "bench" to simply reload that quickly.
Only giants like NA or private schools who can look around have a shot of doing that.

We had our VB banquet last night. Spoke to coach.
I asked him about the net in the Punxsutawny gym and he confirmed all of our suspicions that it was too high.

The girls complained about it, and he brought it up to the officials. Their response was they KNEW it was too high, but there was nothing they could do about it!!! Imagine a response like that in a State playoff game???

Our hitters aren't that tall, and a net that is even 2" too high makes a huge difference. Our hits were grazing the tape or just not making it over all through the match. The trajectory was off too, having to hit up! Not saying we would have beaten PO, but I doubt if they sweep us with a regulation court!
Oh well, water under the bridge now.

Yeah, that's pretty bad. You stop everything and make the game manager fix it. Heck, I would have gone directly to the game manager and forced them to fix it and taken a red card if need be. If it was off by 2", that's a lot for a 5'8" hitter.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Yeah, that's pretty bad. You stop everything and make the game manager fix it. Heck, I would have gone directly to the game manager and forced them to fix it and taken a red card if need be. If it was off by 2", that's a lot for a 5'8" hitter.

For sure!!! Incomprehensible how that was allowed??
And for all of us who watched every match this year, it was glaringly obvious.
Our girls rarely hit the net all year long. Suddenly, even in warm ups, every ball is hitting the net!

Plus coach had history with this crew. From Junior high tournaments. Pretty sure he regrets his public comments btw.
The message was appropriate, the forum not so much.

 

[pittdan77]

For sure!!! Incomprehensible how that was allowed??
And for all of us who watched every match this year, it was glaringly obvious.
Our girls rarely hit the net all year long. Suddenly, even in warm ups, every ball is hitting the net!

Plus coach had history with this crew. From Junior high tournaments. Pretty sure he regrets his public comments btw.
The message was appropriate, the forum not so much.

Yeah, you can't make those comments but you definitely provide some proof to the PIAA.

I know someone who does evaluations of officials for the PIAA and he told us he wrote a pretty scathing review of an official last week. There are definitely some officials out there that shouldn't be working games in November. Frankly, if the net issue couldn't be fixed, the officials should have called the games and called someone. It would be super inconvenient but that would be like playing basketball with a 9'6" rim. Gives a taller team an advantage.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Yeah, you can't make those comments but you definitely provide some proof to the PIAA.

I know someone who does evaluations of officials for the PIAA and he told us he wrote a pretty scathing review of an official last week. There are definitely some officials out there that shouldn't be working games in November. Frankly, if the net issue couldn't be fixed, the officials should have called the games and called someone. It would be super inconvenient but that would be like playing basketball with a 9'6" rim. Gives a taller team an advantage.

The PIAA assigns officials by seniority, not by performance.
So you get older people who aren't tuned in to the modern game, and how fast it plays and how good these girls are. They also have no concept of what constitutes a "lift" and have no clue about net violations!

They look for "technical" problems.
For instance, one of our middle hitters had a hair band on her wrist. Instead of telling her in introductions or warmups to remove it, they waited until the first serve and gave her a yellow card!

Also, they called us for a rotation violation. Talk about chicken shit! First one I've seen called in 4 years watching this team and also junior high and tournaments!

The same crew did the PO/Beaver game at Keystone High school, and while the gym was more appropriate, the officiating was equally bad. The PO parents confirmed this, without going into more details.

But like i said, water under the bridge. Just an overall shame.

 

[pittdan77]

She was named after Sydney Crosby.

Congrats on the James Collins Scholar Athlete recognition. Great accomplishment. Hope she's having a good spring.