Polanco to a 5 year mid 30 mil. extension with 2 option years according to sources.
OT Pirates sign.....
- Thread starter wbrpanther
- Start date
I don't know the numbers, could just pay Polanco peanuts for the next few years while he is under their control. This is a win win. It is like an insurance policy for Polanco in case of injury. Pirates are paying more now than need to, but less on the back end of the deal.
Plus, Polanco is extremely gifted, but he is still learning on the job and there is no guarantee he will reach his potential.
Plus, Polanco is extremely gifted, but he is still learning on the job and there is no guarantee he will reach his potential.
Yeah I was shocked. Same with the contract Marte signed. Don't get me wrong, neither guy will be in the poorhouse. But the very team friendly contracts that Cutch, Marte, now Polanco, Cole still in his EL Pre Arbitration years, I was hoping for a bigger splash at 1B.
But.....over the past 3 years, hard to argue their success. 2nd most wins in BB. The problem is, the team with the most wins in BB is in the same division.
Yeah. Hard to argue BUT I think if Nutting just spent a little more to add the last piece or 2 - especially in the offseason or trade deadline we'd have made a World Series by now. I get the whole small market team argument but Nutting really operates on the cheap. Should have re-signed Happ(in my opinion that was a no-brainer) and dumped Locke. Getting someone like Vogelsong is again just being cheap. We could have used a Zobrist last year late to get our offense going, etc...
Of course it's great to see the reg season success but i really believe Bob Nutting has held us back to going to the next level. Even acquiring Happ was a cheap move that miraculously paid off. Can't win titles by keep praying for miracle reclamation projects over and over and signing over the hill guys like Vogelsong.
They might spend on 1B if Bell busts, depending on who is available. I don't think they want to invest long-term somewhere with a potential internal solution in the pipeline that's close to the majors.
Plus the 1B market has been just awful recently. James Loney, the guy everyone was really clamoring for a couple years back, just got cut by the Rays. Chris Davis is a walking red flag. Jose Abreu wouldn't consider NL teams.
Pitching I never mind not spending on in free agency. Those deals are just land mines.
While I have my doubts that his performance will ever match his raw talent, this is a great contract for the Buccos.
I hate to be a downer here, but I think this spells the end of Cutch as a Pirate after his contract expires. There is no way the Pirates will pay him given the OF prospects right now (Meadows, Ramierez and possibly even Tucker as a position move to OF has been discussed, although 2B looks more likely - wouldn't mid them developing him into a IF/OF super sub like J-Hay).
One of the problems in having a guy like Happ totally blow up last year is that mgmt. might think they'll do it again. NOTHING suggested that guy would be that good, start after start. Like a winning lottery ticket.
Hey, it's Nuttings $$$, if they fall into the bottom half, maybe he'll change. Having top prospects in the minors tells me they can tread water for a couple more years. If he treats #22 badly, the fans will be angry.
I just don't see Nutting even coming close to offering Cutch enough to re-sign here again. Even if Cutch takes another discount it still won't be enough. Cole is definitely gone as well in a few years.
It is sort of mind boggling that 1B hasn't been addressed in some fashion. Like you said, if Bell busts at 1B, they don't seem to have a plan B, unless moving one of the OF's there is in their mind (possibly Garcia? Maybe Barnes?) or one of their 3B guys like Luplow or Hayes, but all of those guys aren't quite major league ready and likely won't be for a couple more years at best. The catching prospects don't quite hit well enough for 1B IMO and are too well regarded defensively as catchers. For as well stocked as the minors are in prospects, 1B is in the worst shape long term if Bell doesn't pan out.
We have Cutch til 2018, his trade value will be at an all time high then. Just need to get rid of him and get something in return.. We have Meadows who should be ready in a year or two.. Same plan with Cole, we have control of him for 3 more years.. It happens, most teams will lose a few of their superstars. St. Louis, a very large salary team, couldn't sign Pujols, just as long as their is a pipeline of players, we'll be fine..
There is no chance Cole would ever consider An extension. Boras wouldn't let it happen. Too much $$$ on the FA market available.
shortsighted way to look at it HTP.. Think he is a player with a big upside.. He'll never hit for average, I see him topping out at .260 / .265 but he has some power, he'll put dents in that Clemente wall over the next few years.. Im ok with awkward defense now, again, he'll learn that. Strong arm, good speed, very good power.. This will be a steal.
He had 35 doubles last year.. That's good. Cutch had 36 and was in top 10, leader in NL had 44. He hasn't even played a season and a 1/2 yet in the big leagues.. If he can just learn to quit popping up after the slide and coming off the bag, irritates me so much..
Probably Jose Osuna, although it's hard to know if this breakout is real or an aberration.
1B is going to be tricky for the Pirates, in all likelihood. The players who play there tend to be awful free agent candidates (big framed, high strikeout rates, value tied up in power, athletically limited, 30 years old or older) and the position itself goes against everything the Pirates value and target in the Draft and international free agency. And they're really highly regarded in those areas so I can't see them going against their own philosophy to draft/sign for need on a guy 5-7 years away.
If anybody is looking to heap even more pressure on Bell, here are the guys due to be free agents at 1B this next offseason.
Why are we looking at 1st basemen free agents next year, we have josh bell. Played in over 100 games at Indy last year and batted .350 (or just under). Switch hitter, going to be fantastic.. Has to learn the 1st base spot for 1/2 a season more then we'll see him.. Don't even get me started on how the baseball purists over estimate the ability to play defense at first base, such a joke but that's for a different thread..
The future of the pirates at 1st base is bright boys..
The future of the pirates at 1st base is bright boys..
No hazing - but you do have to factor in his age and experience. Last year was his first full year in the bigs. He had a better 2nd half than 1st. And overall he improved a lot from 2014 to 2015. If he ends up being the player that he was in the 2nd half (I think he hit around .280), then he will end up outperforming his contract by a ton. I do expect him to be closer to the player he was in the 2nd half vs the player he was in 2014 because he has a lot of raw talent, but also has a decent batter's eye (walk rate is slightly above average and K rate is right around average and improved from year 1 to year 2).
Hope you are right. While I'm optimistic about Bell, until he actually does it at the major league level, I will still be a little nervous about the position.
I will agree on Happ. But by the end of the year maybe Nicasio or Niese or one of the AAA players is up here doing what Happ would have been doing. It's been proven again and again you can't spend your way to the title. These contracts like they gave Cutch and Marte and now Polanco earlier in their careers are the intelligent way to go. It gives security to the player thru his early years and arbitration and gives the Pirates some relief early in what would be their first free agent years. Player development is the smart way to go and the Pirates are putting a lot of money into that.
It is absolutely mind boggling that the Pirates get crucified by some "fans" for not doing enough, and never get credit for the great things they do!
They're villified for letting J.A.Happ sign a big contract elsewhere, but ignore the fact that it was the Pirates who pulled him off the scrap heap, worked with him and made him the shrewdest acquisition at the trade deadline. At the time, those same fans who howl about not resigning him were screaming about how cheap the Pirates were for signing him in the first place, instead of one of the huge money rentals who ultimately underperformed him!
Same story with Volquez. They let him walk, then won the second most games in MLB!
They get NO CREDIT for finding Cervelli to replace a hugely overvalued Russel Martin!
They get NO CREDIT for finding Jung Ho Kang in Korea and signing him at a bargain price!
Were they cheap when they antied up for Mark Melancin this year?
Now they have an outfield locked up for this year and two more, at a very great value, then have 2/3's of that locked up well into the future, covering those player's primes!
How about the faith they showed in Liriano, that was a big reclamation project and subsequent signing, no?
They have two stud starters on the cusp of coming up in mid season, why overspend on starters when ou have two potentially gifted ones ready to break in?
All they need is a couple of the back end starters to do OK until those guys are ready! Those rookies will cost a lot less than some guy who's on the downside of his career and is making a living on yesterday's stats!
First base is a problem all over baseball. The Reds have a good one in Votto, but how many other teams have someone there who carries their team? The Pirates hope to get a platoon going with combined stats that will compete with the others, and also play good defense! Surely you critics don't think Pedro was the answer there??
I just don't get it. The Pirates got an award for having the best management team in baseball from an independant source, they've right at the top of teams with the most wins the past three years, they return a team not much different from the one that won the second most games in MLB, in people are screaming cheap?
How about screaming SMART? Other teams are wising up and poaching people from the Pirates management team because they see the success!
All Yinzers see is payroll, payroll, payroll! Throw money wildly out, and all your problems will be solved.
Until they aren't, then howl about that!
They're villified for letting J.A.Happ sign a big contract elsewhere, but ignore the fact that it was the Pirates who pulled him off the scrap heap, worked with him and made him the shrewdest acquisition at the trade deadline. At the time, those same fans who howl about not resigning him were screaming about how cheap the Pirates were for signing him in the first place, instead of one of the huge money rentals who ultimately underperformed him!
Same story with Volquez. They let him walk, then won the second most games in MLB!
They get NO CREDIT for finding Cervelli to replace a hugely overvalued Russel Martin!
They get NO CREDIT for finding Jung Ho Kang in Korea and signing him at a bargain price!
Were they cheap when they antied up for Mark Melancin this year?
Now they have an outfield locked up for this year and two more, at a very great value, then have 2/3's of that locked up well into the future, covering those player's primes!
How about the faith they showed in Liriano, that was a big reclamation project and subsequent signing, no?
They have two stud starters on the cusp of coming up in mid season, why overspend on starters when ou have two potentially gifted ones ready to break in?
All they need is a couple of the back end starters to do OK until those guys are ready! Those rookies will cost a lot less than some guy who's on the downside of his career and is making a living on yesterday's stats!
First base is a problem all over baseball. The Reds have a good one in Votto, but how many other teams have someone there who carries their team? The Pirates hope to get a platoon going with combined stats that will compete with the others, and also play good defense! Surely you critics don't think Pedro was the answer there??
I just don't get it. The Pirates got an award for having the best management team in baseball from an independant source, they've right at the top of teams with the most wins the past three years, they return a team not much different from the one that won the second most games in MLB, in people are screaming cheap?
How about screaming SMART? Other teams are wising up and poaching people from the Pirates management team because they see the success!
All Yinzers see is payroll, payroll, payroll! Throw money wildly out, and all your problems will be solved.
Until they aren't, then howl about that!
I firmly believe that the Pirates will plummet in the standings more quickly if they spend a bunch of money than if they just spend intelligently and allow their payroll to grow organically (via extensions, offering arbitration to their best players, etc.).
The benefit of a large payroll isn't that you can increase your team's talent on a dollar-for-dollar basis. That isn't true at all. It's that you can give out terrible contracts, have them blow up in your face, and then give out more contracts and play the law of averages until one of the contracts works out. The Dodgers, for example, were paying about $175MM of their $300+MM payroll last year to players who were on the DL or playing for other teams.
Exactly, big spending teams are the dumb teams. But they can afford to eat their mistakes and keep swinging.
Teams like the PIrates have to make every $ count. They have to spend wisely and really be smart and think things through. They have been masterful at that with this regime.
Big splash signings in the FA market or mortgaging your future talent for trade deadline rental players has been proven to be the dumb way to proceed. Look at Toronto last year. No one made a bigger splash than they did, and look where it got them.
Amazing more people can't see this and enjoy the success this management team has brought to Pittsburgh, especially after 20 years of dismal performance!
Solid article on the Polanco extension. Essentially, it's what you'd expect from the Pirates. Low risk, high reward.
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Our only chance is if Cole starts to get nervous about his health. Seeing a couple our top minor league pitching prospects go down to Tommy John should be in his mind a bit. But as the other poster said, having Boras in his ear makes it very unlikely that he signs a long term deal here before hitting free agency.
Enjoy him while he's here. Then get ready to enjoy the next guys who come in and take his place.
As Swervin mentioned above, he shold be dealt for solid prospects in the last year of his contract.
The PIrates have some very promising starters just coming on board. If anything, the Pirates should have earned everyone's trust in evaluating pitchers and finding gems where other see fool's gold. How any times do they need to do it before people start believing?
Like Jose Tabata? Good news is that if you extend a young Guy's contract before he proves himself, you get a discount. The bad news is if the player doesn't develop, then you have to eat the contract. Time will tell....
2016 .267
appears to be trending upward. The average mlb salary is 4.5 mil. They just locked in a guy for five years for not that much more than that per year who is coming into his prime.... great deal.
No, more like Andrew McCutchen, Starling Marte, Jung Ho Kang, Josh Harrison, and hopefully Francisco Cervelli!
$35.5MM guaranteed over first 5 years, gets up to $58.5MM if both options are exercised, there are escalator clauses that can take it up to $60.5MM over 7 years. This is per Jon Heyman, who reported it over several tweets.
Extension takes effect next season, so they control him through 2023 if they choose.
Extension takes effect next season, so they control him through 2023 if they choose.
Yeah. Because of Meadows and Ramirez in the minors, signing Cutch to a ridiculous deal that will take him long into his mid 30's is stupid for the Pirates. Cutch has 2 years at most left here. Enjoy him. But the Pirates should be able to get some decent return for him.
A fair point, but I think Polanco showed more down the stretch last year than we fans ever saw from Tabata. And it's definitely a risk, but I feel better about the Pirates extending a guy like Polanco than chasing after a name FA.
