OT: Pirates
- Thread starter President Stache
- Start date
Sprinting very quickly in the direction of well below average.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
It really sucks that fans want the club to actually get better and win a championship and not just formulate PR stunts.
I didnt like Cutch at all actually. Good player. Cole was frustrated over not re-structuring his contract, we could have rectified that.Keeping Morton and Cole we would have two top 20 pitchers. I think Glasnow is not near Cole, but his stuff I think is even better.
Now that he's in the National League I guess someone ought to teach him how to swing a bat.
The pirates gave up a lot for a guy that may only be a mediocre pitcher at best (hopefully they can get more out of archer but I have doubts with this staff anymore). But are there seriously people out there that honestly.... HONESTLY, still had any hope for glasnow?
Granted if he continues to pitch well that’s another knock on the pirates staff and their awful pitch to contact strategy, but the guy had some of the worst control I’ve ever seen in the majors.
Granted if he continues to pitch well that’s another knock on the pirates staff and their awful pitch to contact strategy, but the guy had some of the worst control I’ve ever seen in the majors.
This team is simply an average team. A .500 ball club. A mentioned before, the hitters are streaky and not consistent. The hitters get hot for two weeks, everyone starts talking about making a playoff run but then they cool off and are right back to where they should be. The decent pitching will only carry you so far. Just look at the weekend series with the Cubs, a little bit of hitting and they sweep the series.
Well I mean it is what fans do. I wish we were all like you, perfect. Never ever make any mistakes, are wrong, all your takes are dead on correct, perfect. You and that asshole pharmacist. Perfect. Never once posting an original thread, just sitting back of the room, being too cool, and picking off what you consider low hanging fruit.
Of course people are going to question those moves. I am not, because I didn't think the Pirates had a chance to begin with (too many teams to jump over) and their series against the Cards right at the trade deadline basically sank them. But these are also long term moves.
HOWEVER....my criticisms are still valid because I think this is a bad baseball management team. I am glad they made a move, you are right, everyone wanted them too, I am just amused (bemused) that they have to give up the farm for a couple of decent players, while the Pirates are lucky to receive competent return when they make deals. I think the management stinks, that hasn't changed. I think the pitching coach is incredibly overrated and the real "genius" involved in turning guys around went to the Marlins (Jim Benedict) and Clint Hurdle has far out stripped his usefulness. I think the fact that so few prospects actually emerge as bonafide major leaguers, the fact that what, out of the last dozen years, they have one 1st rounder on their major league roster is an indictment.
So....there. Come back at me and tell me where I am wrong. Would love to hear your thoughts...........
Personally, after last year, if I owned the team, Huntingdon, Coonelly and Hurdle would all have been fired, along with most of the scouting department and minor league system managers. I would have hired a new management team and let them rebuild the program.
What happened? The owner gave those 3 guys new contracts.
What has happened now almost 120 games (3/4 of a season) later??? My thoughts from the offseason only have been strengthened, that this group really has to go, they same mistakes, they same lack of fundamentals, player development everything, every criticism of the management team I had, has only been confirmed. Though they actually made sort of a bold move, financially it was a smart move, baseball wise it looks like a smart move but I can't help but wonder how much they made the move out of a desperation to the fan base and their growing disinterest of this franchise than their real desire to win.
If they really wanted to win, they would definitely fire Hurdle and Searage, send Coonelly back to State College as a bar tender, trade Marte for a power bat and sign a vet SP of some repute in this offseason.
This is just an insane post. Of course I had hope for Glasnow. How could anyone not???? He has absolutely tremendous stuff. Again, look at Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Goose Gossage...
He pitched insanely great throughout his minor league career. It was all mental with Glasnow. He will get it, he is young, barring injury, he will be a tremendous pitcher. And, he was pitching FAR better this year.
Also... all I keep reading is "well, the Pirates try to get better and people complain"
Of course this is not the case. Getting Archer did/does seem like a good move. the part I hate is we give up a fortune for a guy, just get raped. I truly think our GM just said... just tell me who you want, we will do it.
I would not be happy if I went and bought a great chevy malibu for $250,000. that is what the Pirates did. Why cant people see that? That is the root of the discussion, not is Archer worth trading for, of course he is.
Also again, look at the Braves, they got Gausman for 4 prospects, none in their top 20. He is outpitching Archer. 2 years of control... big whop, I thought we did this move for this year?
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Ray Searage always gets credit for reviving Edwin Volquez, JA Happ and Francisco Liriano's careers. (I still contend it was someone else in the organization). But why doesn't he get more criticism for guys like Charlie Morton, Garrit Cole and if Tyler Glasnow starts to pitch well, you have to start looking at him as a problem, not a solution.
Well, you maybe right. I am sure this could be the case. But, I dont think anyone gets 100% right. Cole and Morton were already good pitchers here. Glasnow just had mega nerves.
Look at glasnow when he was “good” in Pittsburgh this year though, and look at him now. I think a change of scenery was needed. I just don’t think there was any way he pitches like this if he stayed in Pittsburgh... and I think it’s now time to look at the coaching staff as the problem.
They’re all trash. The nucleus of this team- Marte, Polanco, Cervelli, Bell, Moran, Dickerson- average to below average players. This outfit will never be more than outside contenders for a second wildcard spot... who cares!
That's because the "Best Management Team In Sports" always waits and waits and ends up making moves too late. If they were going to get rid of Cole and McCutcheon and not go for it in 2016 and 17, then why not trade them then? They should have acquired Chris Archer for about the same price 2 years ago. That's what the Pirates do. Wait until too long.
No, he needed success and he was getting that here. He was much more confident. I am not arguing, actually, you are most likely right, but we could have kept him and his 100 mph fastball and curve that falls off the table, and got him specialized 'coaching' that gave him that confidence.
Also, he certainly isnt out of the woods yet. He walked 2 in the first inning against the red sox last start that led to runs. I just think we are going to regret it. I already do, Glasnow was a far better long option than Brault is.
Their infield has been below average this year. But Marte, Cervelli and Dickerson are not "average to below average players". Together Cervelli and Diaz have been arguably the most productive catching tandem in MLB.
We made the wrong decision on Cole too. He isnt a free agent unitl 2020. We paid him 512,000 in 2016 and 3 mil last year. He DID deserve more. We could have doubled his salary, he would have been far happier and we would have a horse of a starter. He was an ALL STAR pitcher making 500K a year and went 19-8 with a 2.60 ERA. Tell me how that is bad? The next season he was injured most of the year.
I like Musgrove, so I am less angered now, but we got zero of the Astros top 5 prospects back, although it isnt a horrible trade because of Musgrove, the fact is the Astros didnt over pay for a potential Cy Young type pitcher... But hey, that is why they are champs I guess.
Do you see all the young talent the Braves have? Think teams didnt want some of those guys? They dont move them, and you know what? The Braves will be champs soon too, Dodgers same story. I dont understand how trading our top long reliever and best 4th outfielder (and both young) from THIS year's team makes this year's team vastly better. Packaging Baz, kramer/newman/Will Craig/spitball other names that are 10-20 is what we should have done IF the goal was playoffs THIS year. Baz alone could be a centerpiece, a top 100 prospect.
Cubs did a waiver deal to get Daniel Murphy from the Nats for an A infielder.
Bucs getting nothing out of 3rd Base, Harrison is struggling and playing through injuries at 2nd. *Crickets*
Bucs getting nothing out of 3rd Base, Harrison is struggling and playing through injuries at 2nd. *Crickets*
Why would an opposing pitcher ever throw a Pirate batter (any Pirate batter) a strike? They are a bunch of undisciplined free swinging turds. If I were pitching against the sorry buccos, they would never get a pitch anywhere near the center of the strikezone. In addition the hitting coach and the useless Clint Hurdle need to go now! Hurdle is dumb, repetitive, and down right obnoxious. It is a shame that Nutsack loves him enough that he will never replace him.
The Pirates give up 5 runs in 5 games and lose 3 of the games. Didn't think that was possible but this is the Pirates where the unlikely always find a way to happen .
Yes ... they are... average to below average rbis and batting average... those 3 guys you name are lucky if they drive in 100 runs together in total. Pirates are garbage.
Dickerson is 9th in OPS among LF
Marte is 8th among CF
Among catchers with 200+ PA Cervelli is 3rd and Diaz is 6th
They are not average to below average at those spots.
Being average to below average at 1B, 2B, 3B and SS is what has been their problem.
those moneybalz stats don't mean squat... Dickerson, Marte, Polanco, Cervelli wouldn't make a pimple on a real ball player's behind. Cervelli can't play a week without getting hurt. 47/48 rbis in late August...pitiful!
So On Base % and Slugging % don’t mean squat? Never mind, no one cares what you think when every front office in the league says they do.
RBIs are dependent on batting order and players getting on in front of you, but they’re more meaningful because... BASEBALL CARDS!!!
But if you want to go by RBIs, fine. Cervelli and Diaz have combined for 77 RBIs, third most by catching duo in MLB.
Goddam Cervelli just led off the inning with a double. Another RBI-less double that POS! Worthless I tell ya!
He may not be a bum but he is nothing special as is the rest of this team. This team is a ****ing joke . Hurdle is useless. He was laughing today in his post game .Loser all the way. There is nothing funny about this season ending slump .He should be gone .It's so hard to follow irrelevant teams. Bad enough we endure a football program full of decades of irrelevance, we have to endure the buccos too .the 70s seem like they never happened.
Just curious as to your opinion, who were you most upset about losing in that trade and who least?
I think we may regret it too, but because....
a) meadows was not only playing well, he actually showed a little more power than he did in the minors
and b) I just don’t think archer is all that great. I mean I do really like the guy and hope he does big things here, but him being the “top guy” on the market I think speaks more to it being a really weak SP trade market this year.
Bell, Moran, Hechavarria and Newman combined to go 1 for 14 including 0 for 7 with runners in scoring position. That is the reason they lost last night.
Like I said, infielders have not produced. But keep banging on the guy that is hitting .340 (best on the team) with RISP.
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