OT: Steelers - coaching staff

[Chairman Moe]

As a fan who's followed the Steelers since 1970, I've seen the great, good, bad, and ugly; and for most of Tomlin's reign as HC, the so-so. I have friends and relatives who are Cleveland and Cincinnati fans, and of course I point out the Steelers 6 SB championships and only 3 coaches over that 53 year span. And the legions of fans and supporters nationwide/worldwide; and the blue-collar approach to playing gritty and tough. And winning

But after watching both the Cardinals and Patriots games my pride as a fan is at its lowest. Listening to the same excuses from players and HC, the same comments from the HC that things will improve, and seeing the disappointing results game after game, convinces me the franchise is insane

As I reflect back to the last SB trip - a game they should've won - I've seen the team go into an almost inescapable funk. Yes, there are a handful of players over the past decade who embody what a Steeler "should be"; but far too few. Tomlin inherited a team/program from Cowher that had the "legs" to compete and contend for multiple SB's. Instead, the team has gone so long without a post-season win, I can't remember the last one. Blown drafts; marginal trades (or at least what we got for what we gave); and interestingly, players who have performed better as ex-Steelers (recently, Conner and Smith-Shuster) after leaving

I'm sure I'm not alone - as a Steeler fan - in wanting the Rooney's to finally give up the insanity that is Mike Tomlin at the helm. I don't have a solid name to offer (as a possible hire) but god knows there must be someone out there who could somehow make the Steelers great again. Who wouldn't want to be the HC of a team that boasts 6 Super Bowl Championships? With one of the most supportive fan bases?

Long rant, I know; agree with me or not, your choice. I am interested to hear any thoughts of whose/which coaches (or an individual coach) you feel could/should be the next Steelers head coach?

 

[jtownknowitall]

The Steelers have won two of the last 43 Super Bowls.

What the hell should a Steeler be?

 

[Jeffburgh]

Outside of HES AWESOME its hard to get people to explain exactly what makes MT a good coach.

Is comically bad at building a coaching staff, which is the first and most important thing a coach has to do.

Over his long tenure hasn't instituted or refined any schematic systems on either side of the ball that you can point to that would indicate he's helping the team win with xs and os.

Once the Cowher coaches and players passed through the team slowly transitioned from a mindset of controlling the game with physical football to looking for "splash plays" offensively with Ben, AB and Bell to now just waiting around until TJ or the defense make big plays.

 

[NatronaHeightsPanther]

Here’s the problem with the Steelers. A list of their top 3 draft picks and other misses since 2018.

2018:
Terrell Edmunds- miss and off the team
James Washington- miss and off the team
Chuks Okorafor- miss and on the team. But sucks. Marcus Allen, Jaylen Samuels, Josh Frazier all misses and all sucked.

2019:
Devin Bush- Traded into the top 10 to miss on this bust. Off the team.
Diontae Johnson- decent player I suppose. Still on team, but with a lot of warts.
Justin Layne- miss and off the team.
Benny Snell, Zach Gentry, Sutton Smith, Isiah Buggs, Ulysses Gilbert, Derwin Gray all misses, most are off the team.

2020:
Chase Claypool- miss and traded.
Alex Highsmith- huge hit, great pick!
Anthony McFarland- miss and still on team but sucks.
Kevin Dotson- miss and off the team, but great elsewhere.
Antoine Brooks, Carlos Davis both awful picks.

2021:
Najee Harris- meh. Still on team, but kinda sucks.
Pat Friermuth- meh. He’s decent, I guess.
Kendrick Green- miss and off team
Dan Moore- meh. On team, isn’t great.
Buddy Johnson- miss, off team.
Isiah Loudermilk- meh. On team for now.
Quincy Roche, Pressley Harvin, Tre Norwood all misses and/or sucks.

2022:
Kenny Pickett- meh. Who knows?
George Pickens- meh. All-world talent. Misused or bad attitude.
DeMarvin Leal- meh. Is now a healthy scratch. Leaning towards a miss.
Calvin Austin- meh. Talent and speed, just hasn’t improved. Probable miss.
Connor Heyward- meh. May stick, but he’s not great.
Mark Robinson, Chris Oladokun both misses and/or sucks.

That’s a LOT of missing, with Alex Highsmith being the only real hit. I didn’t include the 23 class, but it looks kinda promising. But, this is Tomlin’s huge weakness.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Outside of HES AWESOME its hard to get people to explain exactly what makes MT a good coach.

Is comically bad at building a coaching staff, which is the first and most important thing a coach has to do.

Over his long tenure hasn't instituted or refined any schematic systems on either side of the ball that you can point to that would indicate he's helping the team win with xs and os.

Once the Cowher coaches and players passed through the team slowly transitioned from a mindset of controlling the game with physical football to looking for "splash plays" offensively with Ben, AB and Bell to now just waiting around until TJ or the defense make big plays.

He did something at halftime against the Colts in like 2019 that helped the Steelers win, and a player commented on it after the game. So they asked Tomlin about it and he winked or something.

It was like they were making such a big deal about it that it was the first chess move he had ever made. I thought coaches did stuff like that every week, but it was almost as if they were pleasantly surprised by it... as if it was something a kid well-versed in Madden who got to be the coach for a day did.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Outside of HES AWESOME its hard to get people to explain exactly what makes MT a good coach.

Is comically bad at building a coaching staff, which is the first and most important thing a coach has to do.

Over his long tenure hasn't instituted or refined any schematic systems on either side of the ball that you can point to that would indicate he's helping the team win with xs and os.

Once the Cowher coaches and players passed through the team slowly transitioned from a mindset of controlling the game with physical football to looking for "splash plays" offensively with Ben, AB and Bell to now just waiting around until TJ or the defense make big plays.

Dude is awesome at some things and because of that has kept things at a relative respectable level once Cowhers players and coaches moved on. Personally I’ve never been a “Cowhers players” guy. Winning is hard whether you have the assets or not so I’ll never minimize Tomlin for that.

But…in addition to winning with Cowhers players and coaches, he also won with Cowhers CULTURE. Think about the accountability in the locker room with the leaders like Ward, Farrior, Bettis, Troy, etc. Once those leaders left, we’ve had a locker room of malcontents that Tomlin does a poor job of managing. He’s taken the multi tiered approach to player discipline to a whole new level and it hasn’t worked for over a decade.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Dude is awesome at some things and because of that has kept things at a relative respectable level once Cowhers players and coaches moved on. Personally I’ve never been a “Cowhers players” guy. Winning is hard whether you have the assets or not so I’ll never minimize Tomlin for that.

But…in addition to winning with Cowhers players and coaches, he also won with Cowhers CULTURE. Think about the accountability in the locker room with the leaders like Ward, Farrior, Bettis, Troy, etc. Once those leaders left, we’ve had a locker room of malcontents that Tomlin does a poor job of managing. He’s taken the multi tiered approach to player discipline to a whole new level and it hasn’t worked for over a decade.

I think he did walk into a pretty darn good situation, though. A lot of coaches were walking into 2-14 messes that got the last guy canned. Cowher, on the other hand, road off into the sunset and left a team with up to five hall of farmers, including the most important position on the field. Not too shabby!

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I think he did walk into a pretty darn good situation, though. A lot of coaches were walking into 2-14 messes that got the last guy canned. Cowher, on the other hand, road off into the sunset and left a team with up to five hall of farmers, including the most important position on the field. Not too shabby!

There’s no doubt. And look at what he walked into compared to what Mike McCarthy has had to in his career. Tomlin never had a losing season because he never took over a team that most coaches have to take over. It’s part of the reason it’s the most ridiculous stat in sports for the Tomlin apologists (mostly in the national media). McCarthy and Tomlin’s overall career and records/accomplishments mirror each other. Yet Tomlin is a HOF lock for some reason and McCarthy is still disrespected by all. It’s a narrative I’ll never understand.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Dude is awesome at some things and because of that has kept things at a relative respectable level once Cowhers players and coaches moved on. Personally I’ve never been a “Cowhers players” guy. Winning is hard whether you have the assets or not so I’ll never minimize Tomlin for that.

But…in addition to winning with Cowhers players and coaches, he also won with Cowhers CULTURE. Think about the accountability in the locker room with the leaders like Ward, Farrior, Bettis, Troy, etc. Once those leaders left, we’ve had a locker room of malcontents that Tomlin does a poor job of managing. He’s taken the multi tiered approach to player discipline to a whole new level and it hasn’t worked for over a decade.

That is basically what I am saying with Cowher's guys.

It isn't just the individual talent, it's the culture, or what I refer to as normative system.

But, that starts at the top.

Cowher could balance being a bit of a players coach with also not putting up w $hit.

The guys you note learned it from the prior players because that is what Cowher instilled at the very beginning.

Now, unlike most coaches, MT didn't take over a team that was a hot mess. So, it was different for him in regard to what we are talking about.

He did try to come in and put his "stamp" on the team the first training camp and and they kicked back on him. He's a smart guy and course adjusted to having a lighter touch, and it worked with all the guys you note.

But, that has been his mode ever since. Kind of just going along for the ride.

 

[TheFormula]

I dont understand the logic in exalting "Cowhers players" as the reason for Tomlin winning, but theres never the equal amount of criticism for differing levels of talent and leadership. Everyone wants to blame the coach, but as they say, shit rolls downhill. It can't just be the coach. The coordinators and the players make more of a difference in winning than the head coach.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I dont understand the logic in exalting "Cowhers players" as the reason for Tomlin winning, but theres never the equal amount of criticism for differing levels of talent and leadership. Everyone wants to blame the coach, but as they say, shit rolls downhill. It can't just be the coach. The coordinators and the players make more of a difference in winning than the head coach.

Like it or not, it starts at the top.

Every other coach in every other sport is held accountable to this standard.

See, HCPN.

Why is Mike Tomlin different?

 

[TheFormula]

Like it or not, it starts at the top.

Every other coach in every other sport is held accountable to this standard.

See, HCPN.

Why is Mike Tomlin different?

Thats just it. Blame isnt on one person. Where it starts is the head coach, but so many people think it stops there.

 

[Chairman Moe]

The Steelers have won two of the last 43 Super Bowls.

What the hell should a Steeler be?

Honestly, I don't know anymore ... we are a lot like the Green Bay Packers. Most if not all of our success is decades ago. Plenty of loyal fans and supporters - many of which never stepped one foot in the 'Burgh - and who still wave the Terrible Towel as if Myron Cope were still alive

 

[Chairman Moe]

Here’s the problem with the Steelers. A list of their top 3 draft picks and other misses since 2018.

2018:
Terrell Edmunds- miss and off the team
James Washington- miss and off the team
Chuks Okorafor- miss and on the team. But sucks. Marcus Allen, Jaylen Samuels, Josh Frazier all misses and all sucked.

2019:
Devin Bush- Traded into the top 10 to miss on this bust. Off the team.
Diontae Johnson- decent player I suppose. Still on team, but with a lot of warts.
Justin Layne- miss and off the team.
Benny Snell, Zach Gentry, Sutton Smith, Isiah Buggs, Ulysses Gilbert, Derwin Gray all misses, most are off the team.

2020:
Chase Claypool- miss and traded.
Alex Highsmith- huge hit, great pick!
Anthony McFarland- miss and still on team but sucks.
Kevin Dotson- miss and off the team, but great elsewhere.
Antoine Brooks, Carlos Davis both awful picks.

2021:
Najee Harris- meh. Still on team, but kinda sucks.
Pat Friermuth- meh. He’s decent, I guess.
Kendrick Green- miss and off team
Dan Moore- meh. On team, isn’t great.
Buddy Johnson- miss, off team.
Isiah Loudermilk- meh. On team for now.
Quincy Roche, Pressley Harvin, Tre Norwood all misses and/or sucks.

2022:
Kenny Pickett- meh. Who knows?
George Pickens- meh. All-world talent. Misused or bad attitude.
DeMarvin Leal- meh. Is now a healthy scratch. Leaning towards a miss.
Calvin Austin- meh. Talent and speed, just hasn’t improved. Probable miss.
Connor Heyward- meh. May stick, but he’s not great.
Mark Robinson, Chris Oladokun both misses and/or sucks.

That’s a LOT of missing, with Alex Highsmith being the only real hit. I didn’t include the 23 class, but it looks kinda promising. But, this is Tomlin’s huge weakness.

Thanks for drilling down on the past few drafts. Mike Tomlin's fingerprints clearly are all over these players as I am sure he had a ton of input when they were selected

 

[sonofabit]

That is basically what I am saying with Cowher's guys.

It isn't just the individual talent, it's the culture, or what I refer to as normative system.

But, that starts at the top.

Cowher could balance being a bit of a players coach with also not putting up w $hit.

The guys you note learned it from the prior players because that is what Cowher instilled at the very beginning.

Now, unlike most coaches, MT didn't take over a team that was a hot mess. So, it was different for him in regard to what we are talking about.

He did try to come in and put his "stamp" on the team the first training camp and and they kicked back on him. He's a smart guy and course adjusted to having a lighter touch, and it worked with all the guys you note.

But, that has been his mode ever since. Kind of just going along for the ride.

Well the only apology I can make for him - and it’s a stretch - is that times are and have been changing even in a short period like ten years. The money involved is so great all players are looking for splash and 2nd contracts - fundamental schematic football be damned. The culture is being preset in college with players looking for greener situations - just too much money for all who think they have a deserved cut coming their way. I’d hate to be a coach today. There. An apology for the great MT!

 

[h2p_5150]

As a fan who's followed the Steelers since 1970, I've seen the great, good, bad, and ugly; and for most of Tomlin's reign as HC, the so-so. I have friends and relatives who are Cleveland and Cincinnati fans, and of course I point out the Steelers 6 SB championships and only 3 coaches over that 53 year span. And the legions of fans and supporters nationwide/worldwide; and the blue-collar approach to playing gritty and tough. And winning

But after watching both the Cardinals and Patriots games my pride as a fan is at its lowest. Listening to the same excuses from players and HC, the same comments from the HC that things will improve, and seeing the disappointing results game after game, convinces me the franchise is insane

As I reflect back to the last SB trip - a game they should've won - I've seen the team go into an almost inescapable funk. Yes, there are a handful of players over the past decade who embody what a Steeler "should be"; but far too few. Tomlin inherited a team/program from Cowher that had the "legs" to compete and contend for multiple SB's. Instead, the team has gone so long without a post-season win, I can't remember the last one. Blown drafts; marginal trades (or at least what we got for what we gave); and interestingly, players who have performed better as ex-Steelers (recently, Conner and Smith-Shuster) after leaving

I'm sure I'm not alone - as a Steeler fan - in wanting the Rooney's to finally give up the insanity that is Mike Tomlin at the helm. I don't have a solid name to offer (as a possible hire) but god knows there must be someone out there who could somehow make the Steelers great again. Who wouldn't want to be the HC of a team that boasts 6 Super Bowl Championships? With one of the most supportive fan bases?

Long rant, I know; agree with me or not, your choice. I am interested to hear any thoughts of whose/which coaches (or an individual coach) you feel could/should be the next Steelers head coach?

Your main point is correct but in what world has Smith-Schuster been better as an ex-Steeler? He has less than 300 receiving yards this season. He has been bad since 2018.

 

[Chairman Moe]

Your main point is correct but in what world has Smith-Schuster been better as an ex-Steeler? He has less than 300 receiving yards this season. He has been bad since 2018.

In my OP I said "recently". He had his best game of the year vs Steelers; same with Conner