OT - Tim Tebow

[BFo8]

People in the media / discussing this on the internent / etc. forget why Tim Tebow and Colin Kaepernick both are viewed with serious negativity by many ---

Unless Your Ideology / passionate emotions fall absolutely, directly in-line with what they keep peddling and speaking about publicly --- They are both just not all that Charismatic dudes in their own right.

Tim Tebow is clean cut, no piercings, no tats, speaks incredibly well and earnestly ---- but frankly, while many have value-systems that fall perfectly in-line with his words --- many including myself, sometimes are just not buying it.

It's too much giving a higher-power credit in too many moments where he needs to be giving that credit to the actual humans around him (a la never thanking his Lineman, Wide-Receivers, Coaches --- it was ALWAYS the higher power pulling the strings---gonna pi$$ people off) --- and it's obvious he freagin' LOVES ATTENTION. LOVES IT SO MUCH haha.

If he was truly doing all this purely out of the goodness of his heart, and tried to keep his positive actions on the down-low just doing good things because it's right -- no one in their 'right minds' could feel a negative feeling.

But Tebow, frankly (not saying anything about personal-life stuff here lol), is what they call a complete Attention Wh*re. A charming, well-spoken, albeit "not promiscuous" - Kardashian essentially. Just saying how people see it and feel it.

Kaepernick on the other hand, is just a Silly, "Lady-Whipped", Childish and Lost, Brat!!!

He posted the most Selfish, childish, Me-Me-Me social media for years and years until suddenly, cough, SUPER-HOT, MUSLIM (the Sex and Drinking is Okay kind lol) MARXIST Girlfriend!

I laughed at it all (him I mean, not the important American =topics he was totally butchering and hate-mongering people on). Anyone see after his "protest", when he got into his $120 grand Mercedes G-Wagon after the game to go to his Northern California Mansion, to then get "rewarded" for his actions by his Cal Berkeley Ultra-Leftist / Marxist / Radio host Girflfiend? What a hero lol.

People who pay attention to the details laugh at Kaepernick because his girlfriend Nessa Diab, is like that blonde played by Kim Bassinger from "The Natural" --- she dated and lived with his ex teammate D-End Aldon Smith for a long time, then cheats on him with Kaepernick when Aldon Smith starts getting in trouble with the NFL for DUI and positive drug tests etc. .... then she "officially" leaves Smith after he gets suspended again from the NFL for drunk driving / substances.....

Classy, classy people those two are , ugh, and young minority kids especially are getting "Conned" by older folks who should know better that he is some "Saint". So silly.

There are Americans who give so much to make this country better of all ethnicities / religions / professions ---- Only the 'STOOGES' think Kaepernick is anything more than a silly Brat.

That sums it all up for both. Mike Vick, unlike the other two, has this thing called "Character Charisma" which is why all his teammates love him and defend him, and why coaches / GM's and Owners wanted to give him another chance. Why Mike Tomlin and the Steelers owners and GM brought him in unlike Kaepernick. If you haven't met him in person and been around him, and just watch TV, you can't always feel that.

Michael Vick was an unbelievably overrated NFL quarterback, was never close to top 10 in the league. He had that great half season when he came back and that was it. People were fascinated with his athleticism but he was rarely better than average on the field.

In a much longer career he won 1 more playoff game than Tim Tebow.

 

[TD_6082]

Yeah, I'm still not persuaded. The stats are terribly misleading. If you went by that, then I could point to the Texas Tech quarterback - whoever he happens to be in a given year - is the greatest player in college football. Now we can say that of Washington State's QB as well. We know that's not true either.

Tebow was not a good passer in college. The high completion percentage was a function of a million shuffle passes and a litany of very easy throws. You know that because you saw him play as well.

You also know that the game changed tremendously from the 80s and 90s to when Tebow played. For example, Pat White also threw for a lot more yards than Frazier and Holieway, but I don't think anyone would claim that he was a great passer.

You also know that Tebow was the backup quarterback to Chris Leak on one of those national championship teams.

Look, I don't want to overstate my case here. He was an excellent collegian and I think it would be a disservice to him and to the history of the sport to insist otherwise or to miss that broader point.

However, the hype was way, way, WAY over-the-top relative to his actual talent level and I think that some of the public backlash is a recognition of that fact.

And I absolutely reject the ridiculous notion that the people pointing that out are necessarily insecure or bad or evil people. Maybe they just think that a certain player received way too much exposure relative to his talent level?

Tim wasn't a horrible passer either, relative to the college game. He was a very smart player. He knew matchups and how to freeze defenses with his threat to run & could usually hit spots with his throws. He also rushed for almost 3000 yds in his college career. I don't think you will find that with the Texas Tech or Wazzu QB.

And even though he was the backup QB in 2006, Its highly doubtful Florida wins a national title without Tebow. They put the game in his hands (or legs) against Tennessee and South Carolina that year, and he came up big

While I agree with you that he wasn't a great passer, I don't think you give him enough credit for the talent he did bring to the table, namely his brute strength that was so unique to the QB position. Like you said, he was basically a fullback playing QB, but he was a lot more nimble than your average FB and a great passer for a FB.

We didn't even go into his intangibles & leadership.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Well, we shouldn't get into intangibles because they are by definition, well, intangible. It doesn't make sense to have a discussion on that because that's entirely arbitrary.

I know that those Florida teams were loaded with future NFL players and that definitely helps your leadership abilities.

Again, I'm not trying to pooh-pooh the guy too much. I'm just trying to put everything into perspective. He was a great college football player and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

However, he was definitely not one of the best college football players I have ever seen. However, he was covered as though he was an all-time great and that seemed to stem more from his Q rating than his passer rating.

Look, he didn't get to the Denver Broncos and then suddenly forget how to throw the football. He never could throw the football well.

He was a substandard passer – which is why he flamed out in the NFL roughly as quickly as Johnny Manziel – another horrifically overrated player.

Tebow was a very likable kid and a phenomenally successful college football player. He was still horribly overrated and I think the backlash against him reflects that sentiment.

 

[BFo8]

Well, we shouldn't get into intangibles because they are by definition, well, intangible. It doesn't make sense to have a discussion on that because that's entirely arbitrary.

I know that those Florida teams were loaded with future NFL players and that definitely helps your leadership abilities.

Again, I'm not trying to pooh-pooh the guy too much. I'm just trying to put everything into perspective. He was a great college football player and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

However, he was definitely not one of the best college football players I have ever seen. However, he was covered as though he was an all-time great and that seemed to stem more from his Q rating than his passer rating.

Look, he didn't get to the Denver Broncos and then suddenly forget how to throw the football. He never could throw the football well.

He was a substandard passer – which is why he flamed out in the NFL roughly as quickly as Johnny Manziel – another horrifically overrated player.

Tebow was a very likable kid and a phenomenally successful college football player. He was still horribly overrated and I think the backlash against him reflects that sentiment.

Tebow threw a decent long ball, but wasn't nearly accurate enough to be a starting QB in the league. However you are kidding yourself if you think the backlash against him was solely because of his shortcomings on the field.

Had Tebow had the same skill set, but been a kid who had had some legal issues and was downright unlikeable he would've had a better chance of sticking as a backup than he did as a holier than thou Christian.

 

[TD_6082]

DVY, I think you put a little too much weight on how players project on the next level. Johnny Football was another QB that was great in college but was never suited for the NFL, even without all the other issues surrounding Manziel. I don't think that takes away from his greatness and the hype he received in college. Charlie Ward is another QB in this same mold.

I don't know if he was worthy of the hype or not, but when you put up his kind of numbers and play on a team that contends for a National Title 3 out of 4 years of your college career, the hype is to be expected. Especially when you already have a decent amount of hype coming out of high school.

 

[CJsE]

Tebow threw a decent long ball, but wasn't nearly accurate enough to be a starting QB in the league. However you are kidding yourself if you think the backlash against him was solely because of his shortcomings on the field.

Had Tebow had the same skill set, but been a kid who had had some legal issues and was downright unlikeable he would've had a better chance of sticking as a backup than he did as a holier than thou Christian.

I can't honestly believe that people could argue that in a league where most of the owners are old white Christians that Tebow was persecuted for being a white Christian.

Denver got rid of him, he got a chance in NY but got cut, then he got a spot on the Patriots and went 11-30 int he preseason and was cut, then he got a chance in Philly to be 3rd string and couldn't make the roster. During all of this he was offered NFL practice squad spots, non-quarterback tryouts, and AFL spots, but turned them all down because they were beneath him.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Tebow threw a decent long ball, but wasn't nearly accurate enough to be a starting QB in the league. However you are kidding yourself if you think the backlash against him was solely because of his shortcomings on the field.

Had Tebow had the same skill set, but been a kid who had had some legal issues and was downright unlikeable he would've had a better chance of sticking as a backup than he did as a holier than thou Christian.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

DVY, I think you put a little too much weight on how players project on the next level. Johnny Football was another QB that was great in college but was never suited for the NFL, even without all the other issues surrounding Manziel. I don't think that takes away from his greatness and the hype he received in college. Charlie Ward is another QB in this same mold.

I don't know if he was worthy of the hype or not, but when you put up his kind of numbers and play on a team that contends for a National Title 3 out of 4 years of your college career, the hype is to be expected. Especially when you already have a decent amount of hype coming out of high school.

I don't think that's the case at all.

I think that's the truest barometer of the quality of a player. When you ask me how much talent Pitt had in a given year, I'm not looking at their recruiting rankings coming in, I'm looking at their draft order going out. More to the point, I'm looking at the NFL productivity going out. The more information you have the better.

That's how you know things like Jason White wasn't really a better football player than Larry Fitzgerald. That was a system thing. However, make no mistake about it, at no level was White the better player.

I recognize that you don't have to be a great pro to be a great collegian. I also recognize that there are other factors in play like injuries, off-the-field troubles, etc.

However, people also have to recognize that many, many "great" players are a byproduct of very friendly systems to their skill-sets.

That is not an indictment in and of itself. However, if their skills would not translate to most other systems, that absolutely is an indictment of their skills - at least when we are comparing them to other truly great players whose skills would have transcended almost any system.

I have said this five times in this thread so that there's no confusion, Tebow had an amazingly successful career at Florida. I am not disputing that in any way.

I just adamantly reject the notion that he's one of the greatest players ever play college football because that is clearly untrue. Anyone who saw him play and was fortunate enough to be around the game for a long enough time and see other players who are also considered of that ilk, knows that's absolutely untrue.

Tebow and Manziel couldn't be more different off the field. However, as players, they were very clearly the beneficiaries of their systems more than anything else.

In some ways, Manziel's legacy will always be aided by his off-the-field struggles. That's because, unlike Tebow - who was exposed as a fraud through his poor play - Manziel was undone because of his off the field struggles. However, even if he had been Tim Tebow off the field, he was still going to struggle because in the NFL those systems don't work and all the things that allowed "Johnny Football" to flourish at Texas A&M would not of been available to him at the next level.

Even if he somehow adjusted to those things he still would've been a short, mediocre-armed quarterback and that's not generally a recipe for success.

That was honestly the worst draft choice of I have ever seen. That was a really pathetic job by the Cleveland Browns. I literally could not believe my eyes when I saw they had picked him. Just an incredibly dumb decision by an unfailingly stupid organization. However, that particular choice was moronic even by Cleveland's nearly legendary standards.

 

[pittdan77]

Similar?

Vick is a convicted felon who served his time for murdering and torturing dogs

Kap took a kneee as a symbolic protest .

"Similar" is in reference to their NFL career at the same age. I completely get why Kap is protesting and don't fault him for it.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

Too many players are too stubborn or egotistical (or their agents too greedy, or coaches too Wanny-like) to realize they are better physically suited for different positions once they advance to the NFL. Both players being debated here could be included in this. Tebow should have offered himself up to be an H-back (or coaches should have recognized this potential). Kap had an initial better pedigree as a QB but it depended too much on running, which scares NFL owners and coaches too much for that position.

 

[Jpripper88]

People in the media / discussing this on the internent / etc. forget why Tim Tebow and Colin Kaepernick both are viewed with serious negativity by many ---

Unless Your Ideology / passionate emotions fall absolutely, directly in-line with what they keep peddling and speaking about publicly --- They are both just not all that Charismatic dudes in their own right.

Tim Tebow is clean cut, no piercings, no tats, speaks incredibly well and earnestly ---- but frankly, while many have value-systems that fall perfectly in-line with his words --- many including myself, sometimes are just not buying it.

It's too much giving a higher-power credit in too many moments where he needs to be giving that credit to the actual humans around him (a la never thanking his Lineman, Wide-Receivers, Coaches --- it was ALWAYS the higher power pulling the strings---gonna pi$$ people off) --- and it's obvious he freagin' LOVES ATTENTION. LOVES IT SO MUCH haha.

If he was truly doing all this purely out of the goodness of his heart, and tried to keep his positive actions on the down-low just doing good things because it's right -- no one in their 'right minds' could feel a negative feeling.

But Tebow, frankly (not saying anything about personal-life stuff here lol), is what they call a complete Attention Wh*re. A charming, well-spoken, albeit "not promiscuous" - Kardashian essentially. Just saying how people see it and feel it.

Kaepernick on the other hand, is just a Silly, "Lady-Whipped", Childish and Lost, Brat!!!

He posted the most Selfish, childish, Me-Me-Me social media for years and years until suddenly, cough, SUPER-HOT, MUSLIM (the Sex and Drinking is Okay kind lol) MARXIST Girlfriend!

I laughed at it all (him I mean, not the important American =topics he was totally butchering and hate-mongering people on). Anyone see after his "protest", when he got into his $120 grand Mercedes G-Wagon after the game to go to his Northern California Mansion, to then get "rewarded" for his actions by his Cal Berkeley Ultra-Leftist / Marxist / Radio host Girflfiend? What a hero lol.

People who pay attention to the details laugh at Kaepernick because his girlfriend Nessa Diab, is like that blonde played by Kim Bassinger from "The Natural" --- she dated and lived with his ex teammate D-End Aldon Smith for a long time, then cheats on him with Kaepernick when Aldon Smith starts getting in trouble with the NFL for DUI and positive drug tests etc. .... then she "officially" leaves Smith after he gets suspended again from the NFL for drunk driving / substances.....

Classy, classy people those two are , ugh, and young minority kids especially are getting "Conned" by older folks who should know better that he is some "Saint". So silly.

There are Americans who give so much to make this country better of all ethnicities / religions / professions ---- Only the 'STOOGES' think Kaepernick is anything more than a silly Brat.

That sums it all up for both. Mike Vick, unlike the other two, has this thing called "Character Charisma" which is why all his teammates love him and defend him, and why coaches / GM's and Owners wanted to give him another chance. Why Mike Tomlin and the Steelers owners and GM brought him in unlike Kaepernick. If you haven't met him in person and been around him, and just watch TV, you can't always feel that.

I think you categorize Tebow completely wrong. It is sometimes hard to believe, but I don't think he seeks most of the attention he gets and I think he genuinely believes and acts what he says. I get the feeling because I used to feel the same way when he was in college and early on in the NFL, but the guy could have been the biggest hypocrite ever and he clearly is not. He could have had more and better tail than ANY of us could imagine and he passes on it. He does unbelievable amounts of work (not just fundraising and most not in the public eye) in the community. The guy is really just a phenomenal person. It is ESPN and the like that over covers it and makes many turn on him. A lot of it probably has to do with many of us wondering how he can be so giving, while we struggle with far lower levels of service.

And I think you are 100% wrong about him not thanking his teammates or coaches. In his biggest pro moment, these were his comments about the winning TD against the Steelers:

"It was a great call by [offensive coordinator Mike] McCoy," Tebow told reporters. As always, the Denver quarterback was humble and gave all the credit to his teammates.

"[Wide receiver Demaryius Thomas] made a great catch and a great run after the catch. Our offensive line blocked phenomenal." Tebow said. "DT made a heck of a play."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/watch-tim-tebow-describes-game-winning-touchdown/

 

[CJsE]

I think you categorize Tebow completely wrong. It is sometimes hard to believe, but I don't think he seeks most of the attention he gets and I think he genuinely believes and acts what he says. I get the feeling because I used to feel the same way when he was in college and early on in the NFL, but the guy could have been the biggest hypocrite ever and he clearly is not. He could have had more and better tail than ANY of us could imagine and he passes on it. He does unbelievable amounts of work (not just fundraising and most not in the public eye) in the community. The guy is really just a phenomenal person. It is ESPN and the like that over covers it and makes many turn on him. A lot of it probably has to do with many of us wondering how he can be so giving, while we struggle with far lower levels of service.

And I think you are 100% wrong about him not thanking his teammates or coaches. In his biggest pro moment, these were his comments about the winning TD against the Steelers:



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/watch-tim-tebow-describes-game-winning-touchdown/

Just because someone is genuine in their belief doesn't mean they can't be an attention whore. In fact it's usually the opposite. Don't get me wrong, he seems to be an amazing and caring person, but humble is not one of his characteristics. There are millions of humble Christians in this country, he isn't one of them.

-The NCAA had to create a rule in college football about eye black because of him.

-He has written 3+ books about how hard it is to be a millionaire with no children, genetic diseases, or life threatening illness. In one he says that he turned down a $1million endorsement deal because Belichick told him that he wished he wouldn't do the commercial. He never says what he'd have been endorsing, but it definitely wasn't something as mundane as Adidas or Arbys for Belichick to not want him doing it. Then he blasts the Patriots for betraying him and not having faith when they cut him.

-He founded a charitable organization called, you guessed it, The Tim Tebow Foundation. His organization is helping to fund a hospital that includes Timmy's room in the Tebow Cure Hospital.

-He was given the choice of being traded to Jacksonville, his hometown, or New York when Denver wanted to get rid of him. Jacksonville offered more to get him and had a starting qb with the 2nd lowest completion percentage in 2011 (worst completion percentage was Tebow). New York was clear about Mark Sanchez being the starter after he threw for almost 3,500 yards and 26 touchdowns in 2011. But Jacksonville isn't a large media market, so he chose New York.

-He turned down multiple offers to play other positions because "he wanted to pursue his dream of being a quarterback", but that apparently didn't stop him from taking jobs in front of the camera or playing baseball. What's closer to his "dream", being a rb or a right fielder?

- During his first MLB spring game, he tried walking around the plate to the opposing team's batter's box because "I thought you walked around because you're a left-hander. I found out you don't do that." This is a man that played baseball for more than a decade in his youth, was all-state in high school, played in a professional winter league prior to that plate appearance, and has been a lefty his entire life.

Tebow is a person that purposefully draws attention to himself so that he can say how humble he is and wished that he wouldn't get so much attention.

 

[Jpripper88]

Just because someone is genuine in their belief doesn't mean they can't be an attention whore. In fact it's usually the opposite. Don't get me wrong, he seems to be an amazing and caring person, but humble is not one of his characteristics. There are millions of humble Christians in this country, he isn't one of them.

-The NCAA had to create a rule in college football about eye black because of him.

-He has written 3+ books about how hard it is to be a millionaire with no children, genetic diseases, or life threatening illness. In one he says that he turned down a $1million endorsement deal because Belichick told him that he wished he wouldn't do the commercial. He never says what he'd have been endorsing, but it definitely wasn't something as mundane as Adidas or Arbys for Belichick to not want him doing it. Then he blasts the Patriots for betraying him and not having faith when they cut him.

-He founded a charitable organization called, you guessed it, The Tim Tebow Foundation. His organization is helping to fund a hospital that includes Timmy's room in the Tebow Cure Hospital.

-He was given the choice of being traded to Jacksonville, his hometown, or New York when Denver wanted to get rid of him. Jacksonville offered more to get him and had a starting qb with the 2nd lowest completion percentage in 2011 (worst completion percentage was Tebow). New York was clear about Mark Sanchez being the starter after he threw for almost 3,500 yards and 26 touchdowns in 2011. But Jacksonville isn't a large media market, so he chose New York.

-He turned down multiple offers to play other positions because "he wanted to pursue his dream of being a quarterback", but that apparently didn't stop him from taking jobs in front of the camera or playing baseball. What's closer to his "dream", being a rb or a right fielder?

- During his first MLB spring game, he tried walking around the plate to the opposing team's batter's box because "I thought you walked around because you're a left-hander. I found out you don't do that." This is a man that played baseball for more than a decade in his youth, was all-state in high school, played in a professional winter league prior to that plate appearance, and has been a lefty his entire life.
-

I didn't say that at all, but I don't think he is an attention whore to be an attention whore. I do think he uses some of the exposure he gets to better his causes. It would be stupid not to.

I'm not sure any of those are good examples. Especially the charity one. Most folks in that position establish their own charities and most of them are named after themselves because their name recognition raises more money.

As for the NYJ vs. JAX trade, he chose a franchise with a veteran roster, a veteran coaching staff, who could make the playoffs, and at least envisioned a part time role for him. Jacksonville had a 2nd year #1 pick at QB and was (still is) a terrible franchise and team, who had a brand new owner and coaching staff. The coach and staff was subsequently fired after just that one season. And you boil all that down to him picking the Jets because of the media market? It seems pretty clear you have an agenda.

I'm not pro or against Tebow, but I do think the dude is about as genuine as it gets, especially with all the attention. I didn't think that 5 years ago, but I do now. If you don't, that's cool. I feel confident saying I think he is probably a better person and more genuine than anyone on this board, including myself. I can't fathom some of his decisions and stances, but I certainly think he is genuine and not really an attention whore (Colin Kaepernick being the complete opposite with both) even though I acknowledge that those qualities aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[TD_6082]

The career after college is definitely the truest barometer of a QB's passing skills. However, the college game is just different. There are systems in which a QB can thrive with his ability to run & just throw enough to be effective.

For the college game, if your team was facing 4th & 2, who would you rather have under center, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Tim Tebow?

 

[CJsE]

As for the NYJ vs. JAX trade, he chose a franchise with a veteran roster, a veteran coaching staff, who could make the playoffs, and at least envisioned a part time role for him. Jacksonville had a 2nd year #1 pick at QB and was (still is) a terrible franchise and team, who had a brand new owner and coaching staff. The coach and staff was subsequently fired after just that one season. And you boil all that down to him picking the Jets because of the media market? It seems pretty clear you have an agenda.

Last post on this thread, but I can see how any of my examples when viewed in a vacuum can be considered coincidental. But since you pointed out the trade situation I will go into it further.

The NYJ were definitely on the upswing in 2012, despite only averaging 1 more win per season than Jax over the previous 5 years (41 vs 36) compared to almost 3 more wins per season in the previous 3 (28 vs 20). Coaching in NY seemed more stable with Rex Ryan on his 4th season, but Jacksonville hired Mike Mularkey as their head coach.

Mularkey was arguably the most sought after assistant coach in football for two years and considered a brilliant offensive mind. He groomed Matt Ryan as a young quarterback and was coming off Ryan's first 4,000 yard season. In 2011 the Jags had the worst passing offense in the NFL and hired arguably the best offensive mind available. They retained their defensive coordinator for 2012 and named him assistant head coach. Mel Tucker lead Jacksonville to the 6th best defense in the NFL the previous year. So the defensive side of the team was solid.

As far as veteran roster or roster talent, Jacksonville had the 6th best defense in the league the previous year (NYJ had 5th best) and Maurice Jones-Drew coming off a 1,600 yard season. They used their 1st round, 5th selection to get a wide receiver and brought in a receiver through free agency that had 11 TDs in 2011. They also had a tight end that was 1 year removed from being an All-Pro. The offensive lines were equally bad in pass protection, NYJ gave up 40 sacks and Jacksonville gave up 44.

The weakest part of Jacksonville was their quarterback. In 2011 Gabbert was a 1st round pick and finished the season last in quarterback rating, last in ESPN QBR, 2nd to last in completion percentage at 50.8%(Tebow was last at 46.5%, Sanchez 56.7%), 26nd in yards (Tebow 30th, Sanchez 15th), and a 175% turnover-to-touchdown ratio (Tebow 94%, Sanchez 84%).

Jacksonville and New York were virtually identical in nearly all aspects, except NY had superior quarterback play and Jacksonville had a returning All-Pro Running back. Both teams took a WR early in the draft, Jacksonville Blackmon #5 overall, NYJ Stephen Hill 43rd overall. Both teams gave up nearly identical sacks 40 vs 44.

The biggest difference was the quarterback situation. The Jets told Tebow that there would be no quarterback competition and that Sanchez (the 1st round draft pick with 4 playoff wins coming off a career best statistical season, that they just gave a contract extension making him the 7th highest paid NFL QB) was guaranteed the starting spot. Jacksonville was his hometown teams and open to a quarterback competition. Gabbert was slated to be the third string qb prior to the preseason to give him time to learn and they only started him the prior year because of extremely poor play by Luke McCown in the first 2 games. Gabbert was coming off a season in which he was the worst starting quarterback in the league.

And on a side note, when asked why he didn't return to his hometown Jacksonville, Tebow passed the blame onto the Broncos and said that it was completely out of his hands and that he had no say in the decision. Elway had to come out and defend Denver while trying to not throw Tebow under the bus, saying that the offers between Jacksonville and NYJ were so close that they looked for input from Tebow before making the decision. Jacksonville offered $500k more money and a draft pick 10 slots higher in 4th round. Do you really think Denver decided to take less money and a worse draft pick?

 

[Jpripper88]

Last post on this thread, but I can see how any of my examples when viewed in a vacuum can be considered coincidental. But since you pointed out the trade situation I will go into it further.

The NYJ were definitely on the upswing in 2012, despite only averaging 1 more win per season than Jax over the previous 5 years (41 vs 36) compared to almost 3 more wins per season in the previous 3 (28 vs 20). Coaching in NY seemed more stable with Rex Ryan on his 4th season, but Jacksonville hired Mike Mularkey as their head coach.

Mularkey was arguably the most sought after assistant coach in football for two years and considered a brilliant offensive mind. He groomed Matt Ryan as a young quarterback and was coming off Ryan's first 4,000 yard season. In 2011 the Jags had the worst passing offense in the NFL and hired arguably the best offensive mind available. They retained their defensive coordinator for 2012 and named him assistant head coach. Mel Tucker lead Jacksonville to the 6th best defense in the NFL the previous year. So the defensive side of the team was solid.

As far as veteran roster or roster talent, Jacksonville had the 6th best defense in the league the previous year (NYJ had 5th best) and Maurice Jones-Drew coming off a 1,600 yard season. They used their 1st round, 5th selection to get a wide receiver and brought in a receiver through free agency that had 11 TDs in 2011. They also had a tight end that was 1 year removed from being an All-Pro. The offensive lines were equally bad in pass protection, NYJ gave up 40 sacks and Jacksonville gave up 44.

The weakest part of Jacksonville was their quarterback. In 2011 Gabbert was a 1st round pick and finished the season last in quarterback rating, last in ESPN QBR, 2nd to last in completion percentage at 50.8%(Tebow was last at 46.5%, Sanchez 56.7%), 26nd in yards (Tebow 30th, Sanchez 15th), and a 175% turnover-to-touchdown ratio (Tebow 94%, Sanchez 84%).

Jacksonville and New York were virtually identical in nearly all aspects, except NY had superior quarterback play and Jacksonville had a returning All-Pro Running back. Both teams took a WR early in the draft, Jacksonville Blackmon #5 overall, NYJ Stephen Hill 43rd overall. Both teams gave up nearly identical sacks 40 vs 44.

The biggest difference was the quarterback situation. The Jets told Tebow that there would be no quarterback competition and that Sanchez (the 1st round draft pick with 4 playoff wins coming off a career best statistical season, that they just gave a contract extension making him the 7th highest paid NFL QB) was guaranteed the starting spot. Jacksonville was his hometown teams and open to a quarterback competition. Gabbert was slated to be the third string qb prior to the preseason to give him time to learn and they only started him the prior year because of extremely poor play by Luke McCown in the first 2 games. Gabbert was coming off a season in which he was the worst starting quarterback in the league.

And on a side note, when asked why he didn't return to his hometown Jacksonville, Tebow passed the blame onto the Broncos and said that it was completely out of his hands and that he had no say in the decision. Elway had to come out and defend Denver while trying to not throw Tebow under the bus, saying that the offers between Jacksonville and NYJ were so close that they looked for input from Tebow before making the decision. Jacksonville offered $500k more money and a draft pick 10 slots higher in 4th round. Do you really think Denver decided to take less money and a worse draft pick?

Lot of good information, although some of it inconsequential and still not equal. For starters, the Jets had a much, much better offensive line. They had 3 Pro Bowlers to the Jaguars 0 in 2011. The sacks were a result of the QB play on both teams. A clear advantage there for the Jets. The Jags did have a clear advantage at RB with MJD (he ended up getting injured and missing most of the season) vs Shonn Greene, but they had absolutely 0 decent WRs. The Jets at least had (he ended up getting injured and missing most of the season) Santonio Holmes. The draft picks weren't in the equation because Tebow was traded in March, before the draft.

As for the comments "passing the blame onto the Broncos" Tebow said they had the final say and "all that power", not that they made the decision without asking him or considering his input.

Moreover, I would imagine a big part of that decision was Tebow not necessarily wanting to "go back home" with the expectations and backup role he was likely to fill. The Jags essentially wanted him to sell tickets. Gabbert was still the QB of the present and future. Jags owner even said when Mularkey was hired: "We've got a huge amount invested in Blaine. Our fate is tied to him. We can't win without him." Mularkey did not succeed with the Bills and despite interviewing for several jobs over a 2-3 year period, the only HC job he was able to get was the Jags job. He promptly went 2-14 and was canned. He was not highly sought out as a HC. He was constantly interviewing and constantly not getting hired. He had essentially no job security. Ryan did.

I think the trade had a lot of elements to it and I think it is very disingenuous to boil it down to "he went to the NY media market." This is especially true when it would have been HUGE for him to go home to Jacksonville and the coverage both nationally and (most definitely) locally would have been a very big deal.

BTW, that Sanchez "extension" you cite was essentially a cap room creator. It moved money into a signing bonus and only gave him a couple million extra over two years, while giving the Jets control of him for 3 more years, but the ability to cut him with practically no consequences whatsoever. Plus, it actually gave him a cap number and guarantee number of only the 19th QB in the league. No idea where you get the idea it made him the "7th highest paid NFL QB". The Jets weren't tied to Sanchez past 2012, which is why they drafted Geno Smith in the 2013 draft and released Sanchez before the 2014 season with essentially zero cap implications.

 

[PITTLAW]

I don't think that's the case at all.

I think that's the truest barometer of the quality of a player. When you ask me how much talent Pitt had in a given year, I'm not looking at their recruiting rankings coming in, I'm looking at their draft order going out. More to the point, I'm looking at the NFL productivity going out. The more information you have the better.

That's how you know things like Jason White wasn't really a better football player than Larry Fitzgerald. That was a system thing. However, make no mistake about it, at no level was White the better player.

I recognize that you don't have to be a great pro to be a great collegian. I also recognize that there are other factors in play like injuries, off-the-field troubles, etc.

However, people also have to recognize that many, many "great" players are a byproduct of very friendly systems to their skill-sets.

That is not an indictment in and of itself. However, if their skills would not translate to most other systems, that absolutely is an indictment of their skills - at least when we are comparing them to other truly great players whose skills would have transcended almost any system.

I have said this five times in this thread so that there's no confusion, Tebow had an amazingly successful career at Florida. I am not disputing that in any way.

I just adamantly reject the notion that he's one of the greatest players ever play college football because that is clearly untrue. Anyone who saw him play and was fortunate enough to be around the game for a long enough time and see other players who are also considered of that ilk, knows that's absolutely untrue.

Tebow and Manziel couldn't be more different off the field. However, as players, they were very clearly the beneficiaries of their systems more than anything else.

In some ways, Manziel's legacy will always be aided by his off-the-field struggles. That's because, unlike Tebow - who was exposed as a fraud through his poor play - Manziel was undone because of his off the field struggles. However, even if he had been Tim Tebow off the field, he was still going to struggle because in the NFL those systems don't work and all the things that allowed "Johnny Football" to flourish at Texas A&M would not of been available to him at the next level.

Even if he somehow adjusted to those things he still would've been a short, mediocre-armed quarterback and that's not generally a recipe for success.

That was honestly the worst draft choice of I have ever seen. That was a really pathetic job by the Cleveland Browns. I literally could not believe my eyes when I saw they had picked him. Just an incredibly dumb decision by an unfailingly stupid organization. However, that particular choice was moronic even by Cleveland's nearly legendary standards.

I get your point about players that excelled in college because of their system--no doubt that is true. However, you can hardly fault the athlete for not producing in the NFL when taken out of their college system. You have to blame NFL scouts and teams for drafting these types of players and expecting them to run their NFL system. As for Tebow, because he was such a nice guy, because he was an amazing physical specimen, and because he was smart and could talk--it is no surprise that many NFL teams wanted him to succeed. He more or less is now just a model, with some sports history and ties....which he uses to support himself and his personal causes. As for the media and who they cover....again, don't blame the athlete...blame the media. Tebow obviously sells and attracts people [both those that love him and those that hate him], which happens to be the business of the media. Hail to Pitt!

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Saying a prayer prior to a sports event isn't the same as kneeling, opting out and not being respectful when the National Athem is played.

The players who pray also stand for the National Athem and show respect!

If you want to go on a crusade against America do it on your own time with your own money and not when an NFL team is paying you!

I find the whole debate worthless. The verdict is in! He cant get a job! Noone in his industry wants him! He and his antics have been rejected by NFL fans, and the NFL owners.

He now has the paid "professional" demonstrators who will protest anything trying to prop him up but that's a bit transparent!

Go away and demonstrate on the streets with the rest of the losers!

You lost move on !

 

[KiwiJeff]

Tebow threw a decent long ball, but wasn't nearly accurate enough to be a starting QB in the league. However you are kidding yourself if you think the backlash against him was solely because of his shortcomings on the field.

Had Tebow had the same skill set, but been a kid who had had some legal issues and was downright unlikeable he would've had a better chance of sticking as a backup than he did as a holier than thou Christian.

Granted, I don't watch him day and night, but the few times I did see him he never seemed to take a holier than thou stance.

 

[CJsE]

Lot of good information, although some of it inconsequential and still not equal. For starters, the Jets had a much, much better offensive line. They had 3 Pro Bowlers to the Jaguars 0 in 2011. The sacks were a result of the QB play on both teams. A clear advantage there for the Jets.

Pro Bowl is largely a popularity contest and name recognition, especially at positions without objective stats like Offensive line. A team in a market like New York will almost always have more people than a market like Jacksonville. They may have had 3 Pro Bowlers on the offensive line, but only one of them has ever been voted to an All Pro team. I will concede that their line was better, but they finished 2011 21st in passing yards, 22nd in rushing yards, and 20th in sacks allowed (Jax 32nd, 12th, 24th respectively). The Jets line was 11th best in Offensive Holding (Jax 8th) and 24th best in False Starts (Jax 3rd). Not exactly numbers you'd expect from a line composed of 3 Pro Bowlers.

As for the comments "passing the blame onto the Broncos" Tebow said they had the final say and "all that power", not that they made the decision without asking him or considering his input.

"Ultimately, I really didn't have any because the Broncos had all that power," Tebow said, adding that Denver was "gracious" in the way it handled the process. "I was just kind of watching and waiting -- kind of like everybody else. It was an interesting day."

BTW, that Sanchez "extension" you cite was essentially a cap room creator. It moved money into a signing bonus and only gave him a couple million extra over two years, while giving the Jets control of him for 3 more years, but the ability to cut him with practically no consequences whatsoever...The Jets weren't tied to Sanchez past 2012, which is why they drafted Geno Smith in the 2013 draft and released Sanchez before the 2014 season with essentially zero cap implications.

The extension increased his yearly compensation and gave him two years of guaranteed money. When a player gets more money and more years, that's usually called an extension BTW. The "extension" not only guaranteed his 2012 salary but it also locked him onto the Jets for 2013 with a guaranteed contract. Prior to the contract, Sanchez's 2013 $6million salary was not guaranteed, with the extension his 2013 season salary was a guaranteed $8.75 million. Every team, including the Steelers, do this to free up cap space. But it does not change the message they were sending. They made it clear to both quarterbacks and the media, in words as well as actions, that there would not be a competition for the starting spot. Jacksonville used a lot of platitudes about their rookie quarterback, but never ruled out a competition like the Jets. If he turned down playing other positions because his goal was to be a starting NFL quarterback, which situation offered him a better chance at his goal?

Plus, it actually gave him a cap number and guarantee number of only the 19th QB in the league. No idea where you get the idea it made him the "7th highest paid NFL QB".

At the time Sanchez signed the "extension", his 2012 and 2013 compensation made him the 8th/12th highest paid quarterback in total cash compensation for those seasons and 7th in average compensation at $13.5 million (before escalators). Subsequent signings after the Tebow trade pushed Sanchez to 9th in average compensation, 10th in total cash 2012 and 15th total cash in 2013. Most contracts in the NFL didn't give guaranteed money after the first few years of the contract so that wasn't anything special.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I don't think that's the case at all.

I think that's the truest barometer of the quality of a player. When you ask me how much talent Pitt had in a given year, I'm not looking at their recruiting rankings coming in, I'm looking at their draft order going out. More to the point, I'm looking at the NFL productivity going out. The more information you have the better.

That's how you know things like Jason White wasn't really a better football player than Larry Fitzgerald. That was a system thing. However, make no mistake about it, at no level was White the better player.

I recognize that you don't have to be a great pro to be a great collegian. I also recognize that there are other factors in play like injuries, off-the-field troubles, etc.

However, people also have to recognize that many, many "great" players are a byproduct of very friendly systems to their skill-sets.

That is not an indictment in and of itself. However, if their skills would not translate to most other systems, that absolutely is an indictment of their skills - at least when we are comparing them to other truly great players whose skills would have transcended almost any system.

I have said this five times in this thread so that there's no confusion, Tebow had an amazingly successful career at Florida. I am not disputing that in any way.

I just adamantly reject the notion that he's one of the greatest players ever play college football because that is clearly untrue. Anyone who saw him play and was fortunate enough to be around the game for a long enough time and see other players who are also considered of that ilk, knows that's absolutely untrue.

Tebow and Manziel couldn't be more different off the field. However, as players, they were very clearly the beneficiaries of their systems more than anything else.

In some ways, Manziel's legacy will always be aided by his off-the-field struggles. That's because, unlike Tebow - who was exposed as a fraud through his poor play - Manziel was undone because of his off the field struggles. However, even if he had been Tim Tebow off the field, he was still going to struggle because in the NFL those systems don't work and all the things that allowed "Johnny Football" to flourish at Texas A&M would not of been available to him at the next level.

Even if he somehow adjusted to those things he still would've been a short, mediocre-armed quarterback and that's not generally a recipe for success.

That was honestly the worst draft choice of I have ever seen. That was a really pathetic job by the Cleveland Browns. I literally could not believe my eyes when I saw they had picked him. Just an incredibly dumb decision by an unfailingly stupid organization. However, that particular choice was moronic even by Cleveland's nearly legendary standards.

I get your point about players that excelled in college because of their system--no doubt that is true. However, you can hardly fault the athlete for not producing in the NFL when taken out of their college system. You have to blame NFL scouts and teams for drafting these types of players and expecting them to run their NFL system. As for Tebow, because he was such a nice guy, because he was an amazing physical specimen, and because he was smart and could talk--it is no surprise that many NFL teams wanted him to succeed. He more or less is now just a model, with some sports history and ties....which he uses to support himself and his personal causes. As for the media and who they cover....again, don't blame the athlete...blame the media. Tebow obviously sells and attracts people [both those that love him and those that hate him], which happens to be the business of the media. Hail to Pitt!

Yeah, I'm with you in lock-step on all of that. I don't hold anything against Tim Tebow. Hell, I actually like the kid.

I'm only making the point that when people try to take it to the next level – and there have been a great many who have tried over the years – that he is one of the all-time great college football players, I simply don't agree with that assessment.

Well, I guess it's a matter of degrees, isn't it? How big do we want to make the tent? Is he one of the top 1000 players to ever play college football? Of course he is. Is he one of the top 10 players to ever play college football? Not even close.

Still, when you factor in all the hundreds of thousands of people who have played major college football over the years, if you're one of the top 1000 such players, you have enjoyed an amazing career! However, if you are a long time college football fan, like me, and you honestly can't name 20 better players than Tim Tebow, then I don't know what to tell you?

Further, I don't believe people would be making that case if he was not a Christian conservative and if he didn't come across as such an All-American young man.

I think a lot of people have exploited Tebow and the backlash to that exploitation was inevitable. It's just human nature for people to wretch whenever something is being force-fed down their collective throats, as he was for four years at Florida and for the next several years as he kicked around the NFL.

I also think the people that hold it against him personally are misplacing their derision. However, again, it's difficult to blame them. Tebow isn't a person to them as much as he is a symbol and people's reaction to that symbol depends on their attitudes towards politics, religion, oversaturation, overcommercialization, etc.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

It's kind of the old Barry Bonds affect in reverse.

It was blatantly obvious to everyone in the 90s that Barry Bonds was the best player in Major League Baseball. It wasn't even close. However, he was also a world class arsehole, so no one wanted to admit it.

To this day, people insist that he was only great because of steroids. However, that's clearly not true. He was the best player in baseball before he started looking like a superhero.

I truly believe that baseball stumbled into its steroid scandal in an effort to smoke out and discredit Bonds.

Everyone was so hell-bent on proving that he was cheating – and he clearly was - that they failed to realize that so too was almost everyone else.

It ended up being a big old mess for everyone and it all started as a way of taking out Bonds before he took over one of their most sacrosanct records.

Tebow is the same thing but in reverse. He seems like a wonderful person so people have spent years and years and years trying to figure out how to make him a success story. It's not going to happen at the next level so they have to revise history.

 

[pitt-girl]

This thread is pretty ridiculous.

Tim Tebow seems like a nice kid. He has always seemed like a really nice kid. Also, based on what I've read and heard, he is one of the rare examples of a southerner who is actually authentically kind, rather than just superficially kind but fairly ugly behind closed doors.

His parents were missionaries and they appear to have raised him with a missionary spirit and he seems to have taken that all to heart. As a human being, he seems like a Hall of Famer.

If I learned that he had moved into my neighborhood, I would be very pleased with that because I'm sure he would be kind, courteous, polite, and maybe even friendly.

However, if I found out the Steelers were signing him as a backup quarterback, I would be considerably less enthused with that news.

I think most of the mockery has stemmed from his play. He was grossly overrated as a player and yet he was mercilessly shoved down everyone's throats – largely for reasons we are seeing in this thread. Devout Christians really rallied around him and political conservatives really rallied around him as well. That's cool – we all need role models. However, they pumped him up to be something more than what he actually was...a LOT more.

A HELLUVA LOT MORE.

He was a system player, nothing more. He was a running quarterback in a system that allowed him to play that way.

However, he was a terrible passer. He couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. There are people who to this day insist that he is the greatest quarterback in the history of college football. That's just completely ridiculous. That's like saying Raghib Ismail is the greatest receiver in CFB history even though he did most of his damage on kick and punt returns and reverses.

Now, Tebow was very successful in college – there's no doubting that. However, so was Jamelle Hollieway, the running quarterback from Oklahoma in the 80s; and Tommy Frazier, the running quarterback from Nebraska in the 90s.

Tim Tebow was A LOT MORE like those guys than some of the actual greatest quarterbacks that have played college football.

However, because of his openness about his religious beliefs ( which I share, BTW) and his outspoken political beliefs (some of which I also share) people went nuts and pumped his tires to obscenely ridiculous levels and flat out refused to acknowledge what we could all see with our own two eyes: that he was basically a fullback who could throw a little bit.

I think that's why the backlash that started was so fierce. I don't think it has anything to do with people being insecure. I think it had to do with people equalizing what had become a ridiculous conversation – that Tim Tebow was the greatest quarterback in history of college football. No, he wasn't and it's not even close.

"Also, based on what I've read and heard, he is one of the rare examples of a southerner who is actually authentically kind."

FWIW Dr. - our oldest went down south for school and we didn't know a single person. Obviously there are outliers, but we were honestly shocked at the hospitality and kindness he received from so many of his fellow students and more importantly their families. I can't speak for everyone obviously, but we've lived it and the generosity and kindness were real.

 

[TD_6082]

I never got the sense he was force fed down people's throats when he was at Florida. He was the charismatic star QB on the one of the nation's best programs during his era. The hype there is to be expected.

As for the NFL, that is a different story. Hard to blame that on Tebow though.

 

[Jeffburgh]

People in the media / discussing this on the internent / etc. forget why Tim Tebow and Colin Kaepernick both are viewed with serious negativity by many ---

Unless Your Ideology / passionate emotions fall absolutely, directly in-line with what they keep peddling and speaking about publicly --- They are both just not all that Charismatic dudes in their own right.

Tim Tebow is clean cut, no piercings, no tats, speaks incredibly well and earnestly ---- but frankly, while many have value-systems that fall perfectly in-line with his words --- many including myself, sometimes are just not buying it.

It's too much giving a higher-power credit in too many moments where he needs to be giving that credit to the actual humans around him (a la never thanking his Lineman, Wide-Receivers, Coaches --- it was ALWAYS the higher power pulling the strings---gonna pi$$ people off) --- and it's obvious he freagin' LOVES ATTENTION. LOVES IT SO MUCH haha.

If he was truly doing all this purely out of the goodness of his heart, and tried to keep his positive actions on the down-low just doing good things because it's right -- no one in their 'right minds' could feel a negative feeling.

But Tebow, frankly (not saying anything about personal-life stuff here lol), is what they call a complete Attention Wh*re. A charming, well-spoken, albeit "not promiscuous" - Kardashian essentially. Just saying how people see it and feel it.

Kaepernick on the other hand, is just a Silly, "Lady-Whipped", Childish and Lost, Brat!!!

He posted the most Selfish, childish, Me-Me-Me social media for years and years until suddenly, cough, SUPER-HOT, MUSLIM (the Sex and Drinking is Okay kind lol) MARXIST Girlfriend!

I laughed at it all (him I mean, not the important American =topics he was totally butchering and hate-mongering people on). Anyone see after his "protest", when he got into his $120 grand Mercedes G-Wagon after the game to go to his Northern California Mansion, to then get "rewarded" for his actions by his Cal Berkeley Ultra-Leftist / Marxist / Radio host Girflfiend? What a hero lol.

People who pay attention to the details laugh at Kaepernick because his girlfriend Nessa Diab, is like that blonde played by Kim Bassinger from "The Natural" --- she dated and lived with his ex teammate D-End Aldon Smith for a long time, then cheats on him with Kaepernick when Aldon Smith starts getting in trouble with the NFL for DUI and positive drug tests etc. .... then she "officially" leaves Smith after he gets suspended again from the NFL for drunk driving / substances.....

Classy, classy people those two are , ugh, and young minority kids especially are getting "Conned" by older folks who should know better that he is some "Saint". So silly.

There are Americans who give so much to make this country better of all ethnicities / religions / professions ---- Only the 'STOOGES' think Kaepernick is anything more than a silly Brat.

That sums it all up for both. Mike Vick, unlike the other two, has this thing called "Character Charisma" which is why all his teammates love him and defend him, and why coaches / GM's and Owners wanted to give him another chance. Why Mike Tomlin and the Steelers owners and GM brought him in unlike Kaepernick. If you haven't met him in person and been around him, and just watch TV, you can't always feel that.

Best post in thread winner.

 

[Jpripper88]

Pro Bowl is largely a popularity contest and name recognition, especially at positions without objective stats like Offensive line. A team in a market like New York will almost always have more people than a market like Jacksonville. They may have had 3 Pro Bowlers on the offensive line, but only one of them has ever been voted to an All Pro team. I will concede that their line was better, but they finished 2011 21st in passing yards, 22nd in rushing yards, and 20th in sacks allowed (Jax 32nd, 12th, 24th respectively). The Jets line was 11th best in Offensive Holding (Jax 8th) and 24th best in False Starts (Jax 3rd). Not exactly numbers you'd expect from a line composed of 3 Pro Bowlers.


"Ultimately, I really didn't have any because the Broncos had all that power," Tebow said, adding that Denver was "gracious" in the way it handled the process. "I was just kind of watching and waiting -- kind of like everybody else. It was an interesting day."



The extension increased his yearly compensation and gave him two years of guaranteed money. When a player gets more money and more years, that's usually called an extension BTW. The "extension" not only guaranteed his 2012 salary but it also locked him onto the Jets for 2013 with a guaranteed contract. Prior to the contract, Sanchez's 2013 $6million salary was not guaranteed, with the extension his 2013 season salary was a guaranteed $8.75 million. Every team, including the Steelers, do this to free up cap space. But it does not change the message they were sending. They made it clear to both quarterbacks and the media, in words as well as actions, that there would not be a competition for the starting spot. Jacksonville used a lot of platitudes about their rookie quarterback, but never ruled out a competition like the Jets. If he turned down playing other positions because his goal was to be a starting NFL quarterback, which situation offered him a better chance at his goal?


At the time Sanchez signed the "extension", his 2012 and 2013 compensation made him the 8th/12th highest paid quarterback in total cash compensation for those seasons and 7th in average compensation at $13.5 million (before escalators). Subsequent signings after the Tebow trade pushed Sanchez to 9th in average compensation, 10th in total cash 2012 and 15th total cash in 2013. Most contracts in the NFL didn't give guaranteed money after the first few years of the contract so that wasn't anything special.

I didn't say it wasn't an extension, but it was a show me, control contract and not a commitment to Sachez. And, most QB contracts where a team is committing to a starter do guarantee money to the point that makes them tied to that player multiple years out, via the signing bonus. The Jets saved $6.5M against the cap and gave them control for 3 more years for a paltry raise for a starting QB. He got "guaranteed" 2013, but he wasn't going anywhere before 2013 anyways and was already under contract for that year. In fact, his extension was so inconsequential he never actually saw any of the years extended. Basically the Jets paid Sanchez $2.75M more over 2 years to buy 3 years of control, which they never used. So, if you want to act like giving a guy less than $1.5M more per year for years he was going to be on the team anyway (and they were guaranteed for injury, so it would have to have been just unbelievably terrible play where they wouldn't even bring him to camp in 2013) is some showing of steadfast commitment, that is your call, but it doesn't jive with reality.

Using total cash as a measurement is pretty ridiculous because it just deals with that season's cash. For QBs who didn't sign a new contract in that season and get a bonus, it only really counts their base salary and not even their prorated signing bonus. So, that put him ahead of QBs like Big Ben, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan, Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, and Jay Cutler, who had much, much larger guarantees, but had them extended via up front cash and restructure bonus in earlier years. It would be just as dumb to rank him by base salary.

 

[Jpripper88]

This thread is pretty ridiculous.

Tim Tebow seems like a nice kid. He has always seemed like a really nice kid. Also, based on what I've read and heard, he is one of the rare examples of a southerner who is actually authentically kind, rather than just superficially kind but fairly ugly behind closed doors.

Your comment and completely inaccurate generalization is far, far more ridiculous.

"Based on what I've read and heard"
^^Talk about a gem right there

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Your comment and completely inaccurate generalization is far, far more ridiculous.

"Based on what I've read and heard"
^^Talk about a gem right there

Yeah, you are probably right. I don't know Tim Tebow. I can only go on my gut instincts and perceptions. He may well be a monster and the beneficiary of a carefully cultivated image?

However, I am choosing to believe that he is a sincerely nice kid. I know a guy who was the Florida SID at the time and he swears up and down that Tebow is who the media says he is.

I have also lived in the south and still have a lot of friends down there.

I know a lot of truly lovely southerners but I also know a lot of the wolves in sheep clothing down there.

I also know that as a rule, and you had better believe this is something I will teach my children, "southern gentility" is by and large complete bullshit.

Just because you say your uglier things behind closed doors instead of to that person's face doesn't make you more kind. However, that is based solely on my own personal experiences.

It's just a cultural difference. Based on my experiences, they mistake directness for rudeness and duplicity for politeness. I value sincerity above all else - because of where I'm from.

Again though, this is all based solely on my own personal experiences.

 

[Jpripper88]

Yeah, you are probably right. I don't know Tim Tebow. I can only go on my gut instincts and perceptions. He may well be a monster and the beneficiary of a carefully cultivated image?

However, I am choosing to believe that he is a sincerely nice kid. I know a guy who was the Florida SID at the time and he swears up and down that Tebow is who the media says he is.

I have also lived in the south and still have a lot of friends down there.

I know a lot of truly lovely southerners but I also know a lot of the wolves in sheep clothing down there.

I also know that as a rule, and you had better believe this is something I will teach my children, "southern gentility" is by and large complete bullshit.

Just because you say your uglier things behind closed doors instead of to that person's face doesn't make you more kind. However, that is based solely on my own personal experiences.

It's just a cultural difference. Based on my experiences, they mistake directness for rudeness and duplicity for politeness. I value sincerity above all else - because of where I'm from.

Again though, this is all based solely on my own personal experiences.

You knew what I was talking about and meant.

Good luck to your children. It sounds like they don't have the best example when it comes to this.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Thank you. Your parenting advice means a lot to me.

 

[Jpripper88]

Thank you. Your parenting advice means a lot to me.

I didn't give you any. I doubt it would matter with opinions like that.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I'm sorry that you are taking this so personally. However, it doesn't change my opinion on that issue. Southern pride is basically a bunch of nonsense and they use it all the time to cloak its ugly underbelly/true self.

 

[Jpripper88]

I'm sorry that you are taking this so personally. However, it doesn't change my opinion on that issue. Southern pride is basically a bunch of nonsense and they use it all the time to cloak its ugly underbelly/true self.

I am not taking it personally. I do think it is a very sad and misguided opinion and it is unfortunate you will poison your kids with it, too. Frankly, though, much worse is passed on all across the country.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

You very clearly are taking this personally. I have no idea why but I would bet dollars to donuts with some sort of weird political thing?

However, your false indignation is duly noted.

 

[Jpripper88]

You very clearly are taking this personally. I have no idea why but I would bet dollars to donuts with some sort of weird political thing?

However, your false indignation is duly noted.

I am not taking it personally at all.

What does any of this have to do with politics? Hah.

 

[RHS14]

Good luck to your children. It sounds like they don't have the best example when it comes to this.

--->

Thank you. Your parenting advice means a lot to me.

---->

I didn't give you any. I doubt it would matter with opinions like that.

__> etc.

Are you Rrrrreadddyyyy forrrr an Internettttt Rumblllllllllllle?!!!

 

[Jpripper88]

--->


---->


__> etc.

Are you Rrrrreadddyyyy forrrr an Internettttt Rumblllllllllllle?!!!

Nah. DVY is a good guy. He just is a misinformed and unbelievably biased and narrow minded on this. It is a shame when a parent burdens their children with that, but it could be much, much worse.

 

[RHS14]

Nah. DVY is a good guy. He just is a misinformed and unbelievably biased and narrow minded on this.

(*Agreeing) --- Honestly I have met so many cool-folks from those "Confederate States" (lol) as well I think a "Deliverance-Style" situation may have gone-down with said-poster to create such a strong point-of-view......

.....Hail To Pitt!

 

[RHS14]

They act allll hospitable, like they like you, then....Hooh-HAHH!!!, they tricked-ya!! lol