I've heard some people opine that he hasn't been the same player since he "tied the knot".
Is there a connection? Who knows, but stranger things have happened. We're still trying to figure-out what happened to the pitching career of Steve Blass....
OT - venting on McCutchen
- Thread starter Pitt5593
- Start date
Is there a connection? Who knows, but stranger things have happened. We're still trying to figure-out what happened to the pitching career of Steve Blass....
Steelers should cut Bell and Pirates should get rid of Cutch.
GMs of the century on PantherLair today.
GMs of the century on PantherLair today.
Taking my post from the 17 page pirate novel.
After 21 years of losing, Nutting knows that the fanbase will be happy with a competitive team for 10 years vs 3 or 4 years of championship runs followed by 6 years of not so competitive teams. He doesn't care if he wins a championship, that's not his goal. His goal is to stay at or above .500 for as long as he can to keep the lemmings coming into the stadium. He has no interest in blowing up his wallet for 1 year to make a push for a trophy, because it will cost him an extra year of revenue of a competitive team when he has to give up a prospect or lose a year of contract control. Let's be real here, Pirate fans are happy to be in the game, they don't require trophies like the other sports in town.
Well my and my family being at spring training 6 of the last 7 years and truly loving that experience... I can say without a doubt that Andrew McCutcheon is the least fan friendly of any pirate. Literally he has never even waved at my kids or any kids or even looked their way in.all those years I've been there. I went fromissing a huge cutch fan to despising the guy.
That being said... he is sound fundamentally. Far better that someone like Jaso that makes running gaffes nearly every game. Cutch is having a horrible year in center. They should swap him and marte. Marte had the arm and speed. For Cutchs streakiness I say we keep him til next year
That being said... he is sound fundamentally. Far better that someone like Jaso that makes running gaffes nearly every game. Cutch is having a horrible year in center. They should swap him and marte. Marte had the arm and speed. For Cutchs streakiness I say we keep him til next year
What is the magic bullet to get from a great regular season team to championship team? When you find it, let me know. I would call the Pirates championship contenders each of the last 3 years, as I would any team in the playoffs.
Also, I'm glad you can read nutting's mind.
The fact of the matter is that in baseball, there is no magic bullet. That is why maximizing your chances to win is better than going all in.
^^^ Blatant attempt to avoid answering the question.
At the end of that 17 page thread, the conclusion essentially was that it's smart to sign big free agent deals because the first 2-3 years might provide enough surplus value to pay for the back half when it inevitably goes bad.
Which was essentially the whole "it's dumb to pay for a guy right now" side's point. Spend at the end, not in the middle or beginning of a window. Get value when you're trying to be good, then when you're rebuilding and those players are expensive and underperforming, it doesn't matter. You're trying to suck anyway.
People don't actually know what they want, they just want to see something splashy happen because the average fan is a goldfish.
And you wanted Jamie Dixon gone because you thought Pitt was going to hire Sean Miller, which is dumber than thinking that niese could have been a solid guy in the rotation.
He's the best the Pirates have had in ages, which isn't saying much. But he's no Clemente, not even close.
I feel like baseball and hockey are the two hardest, most ceribrial sports to really know. Because I totally dived into modern baseball theory in 2012, after completely bailing when Moskos was taken 7th overall, I get really annoyed with the average uninformed Bucs fan.
Your unending willingness to combat the powers of Message board baseball ignorance saves me endless hrs of argument.
Thanx 11.
Yes, the pirates were clearly aggressive in free agency trying to get the best players available in an attempt to put a championship team on the field. Don't waste your time listing who was good and who was not in free agency, the problem is, they don't even try!
Couldn't let this one go old friend. Free agent garbage was the order of the day because of the many insane contracts being handed out to mostly average at best pitchers.
And we were starting the season with 5 legit starting pitcher prospects at AAA. The best group of pitching prospects possibly in the history of the team. This time next year, the Bucs will be the envy of the League when 3 or 4 of those kids are starting effectively, and we will still have 2 or 3 legit starting prospects trying to kick in the door at AAA.
Prepare yourself Del, this is maybe the best and biggest group of Pichters Pittsburgh has ever developed.
Happ was worth every penny he was demanding-should have never let him go. The Pirates pitching prospects are all over rated. The chances of AAA pitchers making it in the majors is about 1 out of 5. Brace yourself-you're in for a rude disappointment. The bigger issue though is the Pirates counting on their minor league pitchers to contribute this year in assembling this year's staff-major blunder. The Pirates basically raised the white flag and not the jolly roger this year.
Sure Happ is worth his contract, this year - but he likely won't be the next 2 years. I would never have considered giving a lifetime number 5 with 2 good months in Pittsburgh 13mil per into his 35 yr old season. Just bad business IMO.
And remember this conversation Del when Taillon, Brault, and Kuhl are good players for us next season. Not so sure about Glasnow and Williams, but I really like what I have seen with the 1st three.
When the cupboard's empty, if you want to win, you have to overpay a guy on occasion which is why they should have signed Happ-what's his record? The Pirates just pissed away this year.Yea, I'll remember this conversation too. Kuhl's a finesse pitcher who's shown nothing yet and Glasnow is injury prone and isn't ready for the majors in any event. That leaves Taillon...we'll see. Like I said, 80% of minor league pitching sensations wipe out.
Nope. Show me where I said I liked Niese. I said it was stupid for you to make a huge judgment after one game. It was stupid. But that's your posts history in a nutshell.
Whether or not he is as good as Clemente isn't the point though. Fans turning on the Pirates best player for the last 5 years because he's struggling is. I find it pretty pathetic.
The attacks on Cutch are the product of frustration with the franchise. People automatically thought that after the last 3 years the Pirates would continue on a straight line upward trajectory. That very infrequently happens in BB. The Yankees and Braves have bucked this pattern in the past but most teams find it hard to remain near the top for more than a couple of years-why-things change-players have bad seasons, players age, teams don't effectively plug holes(this is spot on for the Pirates) and other teams improve at a greater rate(see the Cubs). The Pirates had their window and now they're falling back to the pack of mediocre teams in the league.
I believe, however, McCutcheon's biggest problem is that he's been required to carry the offensive load so long almost exclusively on his shoulders that the pressure of that has worn him down. He's a guy with modest offensive power who has tried to become a power hitter to compensate for the lack of power hitters in the lineup. Add to that, he's had very little around him in the lineup to prevent pitchers from pitching around him. Players often develop bad habits when pitchers don't give them anything to hit for long periods and they are accustomed to being productive. They atart hacking away at bad pitches and things snowball negatively on them. Again this year, you look at the Pirates' lineup and although guys like Marte and Poilanco have improved, their offensive production is still modest by BB standards. And beyond those three the rest of the lineup consists of a bunch of B list contributors. Rarely does a team excel with one superstar and a bunch of mediocre players-that's what the Pirates have been the last three years but the pitching allowed them to chalk up a lot of wins with a crappy starting lineup. Only other thing to say about McCutcheon is that it was easier to overlook the decline of his defensive play when he was producing offensively. Now his defensive shortcomings are magnified because he's not carrying the team on his shoulders offensively.
Del, everything you said is pretty much fair. To all the Mc Cutcheon defenders out there who give him most or all the credit for getting them to the post season, he is most assuredly the reason they haven't advanced. It is hard to look past his 0 home runs and 0 RBI in his 8 post season games. These are not MVP numbers, and he has been overrated for years. Even so, he was a solid major leaguer who may be on the way down. It is a shame that it had to be this year, as he most definitely would have brought in some value in a trade, while Austin Meadows is waiting in the wings for next season. Now Neil Huntingdon is in a bind. Does he sign a guy on his way down and hope it was just one bad season or sell him at the ultimate low to make way for Meadows. I for one, am pretty sure he will not be signed, meaning we will ultimately get some turd like Niese for our one time franchise player. I will say this tho, as poor a center fielder as he has become, even if he does eventually start to hit again, I will not miss him. Give me Meadows ASAP!
I'm an unabashed fan of McCutcheon. But for whatever reason, he just seems "different" this year. Being in a batting slump isn't unheard of, as most hitters go thru it at some time in their career.
But this is something different: there are too many times when it appears as though his head just isn't in the game. I'm not trying to start or spread any unfounded rumors, but one can't help but wonder whether the Pirates are concealing an injury, or whether he's got off-the-field concerns, or maybe he's showing the effects of his having been thrown at so often?
The guy has been a class act and the best player to wear a Pirate uniform in a long time. It's a shame to see him taking so much heat, given the career that he's had.
That is also very fair. I always thought he was a solid player, just not MVP caliber. Like I said before, what bothers me most is his lack of showing up in the postseason. That said, maybe you are right, he really does seem disinterested, and at times like he is not even trying, he already has struck out more times than all of last year, and his centerfield play has been worse than minor league caliber. Maybe he is trying to give them a reason to send him out of Pittsburgh, or maybe there is something seriously wrong with him, or his family life that is too much for him to handle.
Contracts are guaranteed in baseball, there's no "do we sign him or not". The only decision will be 2018, where there's a team option. 2017 is locked in.
This is why you don't give out dumb deals to old guys. You can't get out from under it, even if you cut and/or release a guy.
I realize we still have him under contract next season, the question is: when does he depart? This year, offseason, or sometime next year? Pretty sure in 2018, whether he is used up or not, he will be elsewhere.
I mean, they're not just going to cut him when they're due to pay him $14MM. Even if he's unmovable from a trade standpoint, he's probably going to be a 1-2 win player and you're only eating 1 year of the deal.
Pittsburgh people are always stupid, always hating their big stars and then loving overachieving nobodies like Dan Kreider! LOL
This is a ridiculous thread.
Some people just have to bitch.
Some people just have to bitch.
Happ today, 6 ip 1 hit, 0 earned runs and got the win. Now 13-3 with a 3.24 ERA.
Nope, we didn't need him, nope, no way. We needed Jon Niese, who was awful the whole second half last year.
If we had Happ this year, even with McCutchen and Liriano and bunches of others struggling we'd be in 1st place in the wild card standings and only a few games behind Chicago. But nope, we didn't need him, nope.
Nope, we didn't need him, nope, no way. We needed Jon Niese, who was awful the whole second half last year.
If we had Happ this year, even with McCutchen and Liriano and bunches of others struggling we'd be in 1st place in the wild card standings and only a few games behind Chicago. But nope, we didn't need him, nope.
Lol....don't think so.
But even if it would of, hindsight is 20-20. It's not like the last few years of his career suggested that he would put up such results. I mean, people like you weren't exactly praising the acquisition of Happ at the trade deadline last year.
This potato didn't even know if they had to "sign him or not ".
How can someone who doesn't have that knowledge defend any argument they make.
Jesus, this place is hell.
No I wasn't and people like me? Who the heck WAS praising that acquisition? Happ was horrible in Seatlle. BUT BUT BUT, he worked with Searage and Benedict and was the best pitcher in the league(next to Arrieta) the whole 2nd half. Plus 12 million a year for 3 years is a great deal for a quality lefty. Stop defending Nutting please, it has given me indigestion.
Not too many people were praising the trade. Yet, people like you thought the Pirates should have handed out a bunch of money to a guy who had two good months.
The logic is comical.
He will be 31, do you think they will pay him 14.5M or try to keep him longer than the one year and not let him become a UFA? I am curious what you think they should do.
In the era of 200-300 million dollar contracts, heck even 150-200 million dollar contracts 3 yr 36 million is a joke. You defend the 10th richest owner in baseball no matter what don't you.
It may be ridiculous, but before you want to venerate McCutcheon maybe he could win us something first. How about a division? Nope How about the NL pennant? Nope World Series? No Has he been good until this year? Yes To gain iconic statis in this town you have to win. All you Pirate fans are just so tickled with them being competitive again that you can't admit when a player is slipping. Kinda sad really, I guess I am not allowed to "vent on Mccutcheon".
It will probably hinge on how he does next year. If he doesn't bounce back they should decline his player option.
Despite what all these people think, I love the buccos and all my Burgh sports. FWIW I do hope he bounces back next season and they can keep him around, but if not, maybe they get some return on him, if he hits like Cutch again.
