Dunno. Having a higher profile hockey program might mean having fans like, truly sorry to say, the hideous and annoying "pens vs flyers" couple NBC featured on the game Saturday, the large (to be kind) red headed "woman" (perhaps, though I'd have had the camera follow her toward the restrooms to confirm where she went) on the "Pens" side (who, as apparently indoctrinated to do, blathered more about PSU hockey than the Pens) and her vaguely terrorist looking husband on the Flyers side (sorry to insult terrorists with that connection). Was tempted ... almost ... to switch to the NBA game during that droning session.
OT - Winter Classic
- Thread starter 9nationalchampionships
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The NHL will never be mainstream in the US. Its just not possible. But it has a nice, lucrative niche here.....and its the NFL in Canada.
I've watched 5 Penguin games in the last decade or so. The 3 Stadium games (1 in Buffalo), Game 7 vs Caps and Game 7 vs Red Wings. So, for a non-fan like me, you can see that when you make a meaningless 1 of 84 regular season game an event, I'll watch it. Otherwise, I'm not watching. Just no interest which is the way most Americans feel but I'm in the minority in Pittsburgh as the Penguins have a tremendous fanbase.
I agree with this. NHL really made a strong attempt about 15 years ago to increase TV ratings in America, make it mainstream. Remember that Red blaze after the slapshots and the glowing puck? Yikes, hey, at least they tried..
NHL is a niche sport in America, nothing wrong with that. I think the NHL has accepted it's place in America, firmly entrenched as 4th, nothing wrong with that at all. I am a pens fan, if the guins ever left Pittsburgh, I wouldn't watch a game to save my life. Im sure about 98% of penguins in this city fans feel the same, whether they'd admit it or not..
Depends how you define 4th.
Yes, they are the 4th most watched professional sports league based in America. However, the EPL gets better ratings in the US than the NHL so if you include them, that's 5th.
If you include college leagues, they are also behind college football and college basketball, so then they'd be 7th.
Basically, it goes
1. NFL
2. College Football
3. NBA
4. MLB
5. College Basketball
6. EPL
7. NHL
That's a fair take, but may I ask, why? I mean if you grew up and lived in Birmingham, no explanation necessary. But here? I am not saying the axis of hockey is balanced in Pittsburgh over the last few decades, but it is not too far away.
Just curious as to "why"?
No recruits I am proud that pgh still does make steel in the Mon valley. I worked in the old carrie furnace to pay may way through pitt and really had fun. I am proud of those days it was hot dirty work but it was cool.
Go look at the team shop, they have some nice jerseys pretty cheap, just not the script.
Robert Morris Hockey "disagrees."
Actually I have no idea about their attendance. I know they have a very respectable program in D1.
You know, I can't get into the EPL at all! I like soccer a lot, watch USA National Team, World Cup, MLS, I have favorite European teams, not English, Spanish or German, Greece and Olympiacos, I'm a DC United fan because we get the local games on TV where I live. But for the life of me, I can't attach myself to an English team or watch English teams play each other just because they are "best in the world". I need some reason for attachment to watch sports, it's why for years I'd watch Big East football constantly and never watch "the best", meaning SEC games. I'd rather watch lesser quality teams that I have become attached to for other reasons. I watch Baltimore Blast indoor soccer on line, because I like driving 15 minutes to their arena and getting a great seat for $22.... clearly the lowest form of soccer, but I watch that over EPL. I know people that get dedicated to Man U and Liverpool and leave work early or wake up at 7:00 am to watch them play, I just can't do it, at least the MLS has cities I can relate to, NY. DC, LA it seems that is easier for me to get attached. Interesting though, and sad for US soccer, our league won't grow because of all the "soccer snobs" would rather watch English games. But this is another conversation,
is our athletic dept financially ready to fund another team? All I hear about is how we fans are all too cheap and pitt athletics needs us to give more or we will be the worst football team ever, it's all our faults that we cant beat UNC and Va tech. plus, where would they play? Any open lots in Oakland are designated sites for future hotels..
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Where does the current team play? Where do they get funds? Or do the players just pay to play? I don't know.
the two losses were because of fans not giving enough money, just ask some posters on here.
NHL was very close to mainstream, if not actually there, when partnered with espn. As much as fans in hockey markets seemed to be pleased with the league post-lockout, having versus as their main television network at the time kind of put a ceiling on the league. Even having NBC involved now I'm not sure if they'll ever be able to make the league any more popular than it is. It's probably set in stone as the #4 professional sport in the US for many years to come.
Because it's easier to follow/be connected to a sport if you play it or have played it as a kid. Hockey is an expensive sport that the majority of High Schools a.) don't field a team or b.) barely fund the team. For example, at Penn Hills, you bought all of your equipment yourself. All the school provided was a jersey. Pants, to pads, to skates, gloves, sticks, maintenance of skates etc falls 100% on the kid/family. Transportation to and from games fell 100% on the kids/families. You're looking at thousands of dollars to play.
Now think to football, basketball, baseball and think how the schools fund it. Or even if it's just kids playing pick up games.....i can call 10 dudes buy a $20 basketball and go play at any court for free. Football same thing. Baseball, we all gotta buy a glove, some balls, and a bat. Then think about hockey...we have to rent ice time and everybody needs expensive equipment.
How many families in WPA or hell, all over the country do you actually think can afford to play?
The lettering and numbers absolutely was the same as the Steeler font. Think of when there is actually the word "Steelers" in the south end zone. Same font. I thought it very cool - subtle but not so subtle at the same time.
As far as PITT hockey jerseys. I don't know, I look at those and understand why The color change years ago. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the football throwbacks and thought the hoops were pretty awesome too. But when you see it on a different sport, the nostalgia goes away and you are left just with the color. I don't think it looks great on other sports or clothes. Almost looks like LSU
Overall though, I think we have a good thing going now. I think u will see the "throwback" colors at least 25% of the time which should make everyone happy
As far as PITT hockey jerseys. I don't know, I look at those and understand why The color change years ago. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the football throwbacks and thought the hoops were pretty awesome too. But when you see it on a different sport, the nostalgia goes away and you are left just with the color. I don't think it looks great on other sports or clothes. Almost looks like LSU
Overall though, I think we have a good thing going now. I think u will see the "throwback" colors at least 25% of the time which should make everyone happy
I think that lighter blue color is GREAT! I personally like wearing lighter colors and brighter colors, the dark/almost black blue we wear is no way as nice as the royal blue. Color is just a matter of opinion.
You make some good points. But hockey is fairly mainstream here, and really how many avid football fans on these forums actually played the sport outside of a 4 on 4 tag, 1003 rush, steady QB on the road type of game? Or basketball aside from pickup games?
I hear you about the expense, the equipment, the ice time, but there is dek hockey and ball hockey and they aren't different in scope that 3 on 3 basketball in the driveway or sandlot football or baseball, right? I played ball hockey when Pierre Larouche was a Pen, so I have been exposed to hockey since I was a kid, I always played with the older kids and was more advanced. Funny story, then hockey obviously was not as popular as it was, and no one knew, when my parents bought me my first hockey sticks, they were right handed. Cause, natually I am right handed. In everything. Except shooting hockey. In fact I think the split on shooting hand is like 55 left handed and 45 right handed. Just an aside.
But you do bring up some good points, I just wonder in this area anyways, the Pens have been so good for so long, and have had some of the best talent to ever lace up the skates of all time, and been championship contenders, that there are still people who are sports fans who dismiss it because they didn't grow up playing. Which again, is a good explanation. I guess I was lucky or rare or just a plain weirdo, that I discovered hockey as a youngster (like 8 years old), my only regrets is it was probably 20 years too early before it became more popular here with rinks and teams.
can someone show ratings of NHL vs epl in the US? I really don't want to get into the soccer is great v. soccer is boring debate again. I just cant imagine that the epl gets better ratings in US vs. hockey. I honestly don't think I've seen it broadcast on any of the normal stations (nbc/fox/abc/cbs) or any of the espn's.
Now it is, in the '70s when I was growing up in Western PA, nobody I knew played hockey at all. Maybe there where teams or leagues, but not in my little world. Soccer hadn't even infiltrated my little world yet before I was an adult.
I don't know the ratings, but it's broadcast mainly on NBCSN and also some of their affiliated networks (CNBC, USA, NBC) every weekend, in the mornings, between September and May. It starts around 7:00 am until maybe 2:00 pm, because of the time difference between here and England.
interesting.. I recall people meeting up at early hours at pipers to watch the bigger matches, early in the mornings. OK, well never was a fan but honestly, I'd love to be a fan of a less than popular / mainstream sport. not hockey or soccer but something truly "off the beaten path."
I was at an irish bar and they had this game on, it looked like lacrosse but with these sticks, almost like dudes playing field hockey but they could pick the ball up with these sticks and hit it. was a cool ass sport to watch but cant recall what it was called.
I used to be big Pens and Pirates fans. I gave up the Pens when they traded Jagr and quit. I gave up the Pirates after about 2 seasons in PNC Park when I realized tbe new park wouldn't change anything.
I tried to get back into the Pens when we got Sid but too much time had passed and I'd moved on....and in both cases there were too many regular season games to keep track of so I decided it was best to try not to rekindle things. I decided to double down on Pitt sports and give up the Pens and Pirates forever.
you doubled down on pitt sports and gave up on the pens in 2002? Yikes SMF, hindsight is 20-20 and all but not the best of decisions. you missed some wonderful years my man..
Last year's second half of the pens season and their cup run was beyond fantastic. Any cup run is great but the style of play, the speed, even noticeable from the casualest of fans was awesome to watch.. All those people that complain about gritty, clutch and grab playoff hockey (aka ME) had to love last year's run.. none of that dump and chase garbage, get one garbage goal and then protect the lead crap that made playoff hockey unbearable for non Canadians.
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Too many games to keep track of? What? I follow the Pens, all I "keep track of" is maybe the score, and then watch maybe 10-20 games from October to March at most. But I do live out of town, so I watch whatever is broadcast in my area nationally.
I agree about too many games. loved the strike year when they had like 50-55 games, that was perfect.. NHL season is too long. Perfect length would be app 60 IMO. of course it wont happen cause of money. Owners aren't going to agree with losing the money for 10+ home games.. Cant say I blame them..
As much as I think the NHL season is too long, I'd like to see the NFL season go to 18 games but only if they increased the roster size. maybe at 6-7 more players per team. Again, counter intuitive since paying those players would eat up the money gained from adding 2 games. But I think that would be cool, bigger rosters and more games in NFL.
http://www.socceramerica.com/article/68858/tv-report-epl-outdraws-nhl-in-2015-16.html
Here you go.
And the EPL has 2 MAJOR ratings disadvantages when compared to the NHL.
1. There are no home team markets in the US for the EPL so NBC can never get a ratings bump from a home market when a team with a rabid local fanbase plays like they get when half of Western PA tunes in to see the Pens on NBCSN. Home team markets are one of the most important ratings factors and the EPL has 0.
2. The start times for the EPL are atrocious compared to the NHL's prime time slots. The EPL kicks at 7:30AM, 10AM, and 12:30 on Saturdays and Sundays. And 2:30 on weekdays.
And this is only counting English speaking American TV stations. American Spanish-language TV stations do even better for EPL games.....but Liga MX gets better ratings than the EPL on the Spanish-language stations.
Technically, more people watch Liga MX in the USA than the NHL if you count people watching on Spanish-language stations.
Thanks SMF, informative link. It obviously has it's appeal if most of the world watches. Someone, some day, long away from now, will come up with an ingenious way to make soccer work in the US. not sure how but some day it will happen.
Jeez....not the most prudent of choices in giving up the Pens for Pitt sports.
Americans have the best baseball, basketball, football, and hockey leagues. They wont settle for a mediocre league like MLS. If America can somehow have the BEST soccer league, it would rival MLB and NBA in interest......but there's just not enough money in American soccer to make that happen anytime soon. Maybe in 50 years.
The strike year had a 48 game schedule, that was about perfect IMO. Of course they want the revenue from 80 games, so that won't happen. But to me, the best thing would be play 48 games and then once the Super Bowl happens, go to a Sunday heavy schedule, and have 8-10 games every Sunday afternoon, Televise 3-4 national games that day, have the NHL Network do like an NHL Redzone type thing. It would be great, There is really very little sports on Sundays in February and March on Sundays IMO.
I do, I have become a big MLS/DC United fan-I'm looking forward to the opening games this weekend, and I can't for the life of me, in no way, get attached to some team in an English city at 7:00 am in the morning-I'd rather watch less quality teams in cities I relate to at times I prefer, just can't do the EPL or La Liga or any of that! I can relate to DC vs. NY or vs. LA or Chicago, even Toronto! I just can't give a crap about Stoke City vs. West Ham United, I don't care at all that they play better soccer.
In the end, soccer may overtake football, when so few kids play football that they wonder why anybody watches the NFL. I mean eventually high schools may drop football over cost and liability, parents may quit signing kids up, it might be 50 years, but it will probably happen.
Oh, I could get behind that idea. Might be harder to sell because of the constant play in hockey vs football, but that would still be way better than what is traditionally available.
Did you understand that I meant go to the Sunday schedule once football ends. Maybe even have every team play one game on Sunday and another game during the week. And create a fantasy game based on the weekly Sunday schedule. So that people would be watching a game and maybe a "Goal Zone" channel that constantly shows every goal and great play, like great saves, or fights or whatever is deemed exciting.
Yes, but I am saying that it is harder to have a Redzone product in hockey because there aren't starts and stops like there are in football to switch over to other games. It would mostly operate as a close to real time highlight show. So, really, it would be more like what the NFL Network (not Redzone) has on football Sundays and NHL/MLB/NBA Network does nightly.
The best part of the setup would be more capitalizing on the Sunday hole after the Super Bowl and adding more televised games.
I get that, you can't predict when scoring will come, like in football, but you can follow the closer games and, show power plays, OTs, penalty shots, shoot outs, cut away to any goal or other great play or "situation", Like a replay review or fight, or great save etc.
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