Out on Cignetti

[H2P-2007]

I know that there is a lot of blame to go around, but here’s what I saw on offense:

- A talented OL that made a bunch of mistakes, didn’t communicate well, and didn’t seem well coached
- A mediocre college QB that could succeed in the right college offense
- WRs constantly overthrown, or being asked to make tough catches in small windows
- Situationally questionable playcalling
- Overuse of complicated NFL style motion
- Plays that provided the QB and WRs very tight windows, even if run to the “T”
- Plays that depend on all 11 winning their battles

In my mind, 90% of the blame falls on the OC, as her didn’t put his players in a position to succeed. An OC that tries to “outthink” the opponent using NFL schemes that only work if you have NFL caliber players in all 11 positions - which just isn’t the reality of college football. College football is a game where you identify what guys do well and try to put them in a position to use that skill. Give your best players the ball in space. Our offense is the opposite of that, and it’s not going to be successful unless you’re an Alabama.

 

[TD_6082]

I know that there is a lot of blame to go around, but here’s what I saw on offense:

- A talented OL that made a bunch of mistakes, didn’t communicate well, and didn’t seem well coached
- A mediocre college QB that could succeed in the right college offense
- WRs constantly overthrown, or being asked to make tough catches in small windows
- Situationally questionable playcalling
- Overuse of complicated NFL style motion
- Plays that provided the QB and WRs very tight windows, even if run to the “T”
- Plays that depend on all 11 winning their battles

In my mind, 90% of the blame falls on the OC, as her didn’t put his players in a position to succeed. An OC that tries to “outthink” the opponent using NFL schemes that only work if you have NFL caliber players in all 11 positions - which just isn’t the reality of college football. College football is a game where you identify what guys do well and try to put them in a position to use that skill. Give your best players the ball in space. Our offense is the opposite of that, and it’s not going to be successful unless you’re an Alabama.

Alabama's offense sucks. It's obvious why they were desperate to get Drake Maye. They don't have a QB in T-town this year. At least not right now.

 

[Burgh15]

Cincinnati pretty much ran the ball and threw it horizontally, using speed to beat the Pitt defenders. Eventually Pitt's defense zeroed in on it, but it worked for long enough to get the win.

There aren't many great offensive coordinators out there, but Narduzzi puts no effort in to find any of them. If anything, they need something to energize the recruiting for offensive skill positions. No speed or game breakers on this offense outside of maybe Bartholomew.

 

[sonofabit]

Well Sark used motion and mis-matches that exposed Bama’s D. He’s got the horses but some would say his style is too sophisticated for college. Cig needs playmakers. Not apologizing but it takes talent.

 

[cashisking884]

Well Sark used motion and mis-matches that exposed Bama’s D. He’s got the horses but some would say his style is too sophisticated for college. Cig needs playmakers. Not apologizing but it takes talent.

Sark’s current offense, both at Bama and now at Texas, takes a big time OL a lot of his route concepts to develop.

But would be be running that stuff if he wasn’t at Bama or Texas? I don’t think so.

There are so many teams running with access to far less talent, running more college oriented systems. And that’s exactly why they are running those systems.

As Deion showed, you can go to the MAC to get successful “college” oriented offenses.

 

[Will K]

I know that there is a lot of blame to go around, but here’s what I saw on offense:

- A talented OL that made a bunch of mistakes, didn’t communicate well, and didn’t seem well coached
- A mediocre college QB that could succeed in the right college offense
- WRs constantly overthrown, or being asked to make tough catches in small windows
- Situationally questionable playcalling
- Overuse of complicated NFL style motion
- Plays that provided the QB and WRs very tight windows, even if run to the “T”
- Plays that depend on all 11 winning their battles

In my mind, 90% of the blame falls on the OC, as her didn’t put his players in a position to succeed. An OC that tries to “outthink” the opponent using NFL schemes that only work if you have NFL caliber players in all 11 positions - which just isn’t the reality of college football. College football is a game where you identify what guys do well and try to put them in a position to use that skill. Give your best players the ball in space. Our offense is the opposite of that, and it’s not going to be successful unless you’re an Alabama.

Cignetti is the reason Addison, Slovis and Patti left. QB's definitely hate playing for him. He is a self centered phony. Pit can not attract a top QB prospect or a transfer becaus of Cignetti. That is a FACT.

 

[hailtopitt25]

Cignetti is the reason Addison, Slovis and Patti left. QB's definitely hate playing for him. He is a self centered phony. Pit can not attract a top QB prospect or a transfer becaus of Cignetti. That is a FACT.

Can you expand on this? Patti left because of him? Phony? Genuinely curious.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

This offense sucks, and it feels like they're randomly drawing plays out of a hat. But Jurkovec cannot run a well-oiled efficient offense because he can't consistently hit even short passes. He likes to muddy the game up as much as possible and then just heave an end-over-end duck at someone, because he has to see something; he cannot perceive it. You can't consistently score that way, though. You need some easy passes and some efficiency. Not every play can be an epic saga.

Further, these receivers aren't efficient either. They seldom get open on the initial route. I don't think they could be THAT bad so often, so I have to think that some of it has to do with the way the plays are drawn up. I mean, they were getting over the top somewhat effectively, but those are low percentages throws (Narduzzi's whole defense is predicated on giving you those throws if you can hit them, for instance). But it felt like Cincy had no trouble at all blanketing the initial routes. We need to run way more short crosses. Those are easy for the QB to see and usually open if he can buy the time (which Phil mostly has).

 

[TD_6082]

Sark’s current offense, both at Bama and now at Texas, takes a big time OL a lot of his route concepts to develop.

But would be be running that stuff if he wasn’t at Bama or Texas? I don’t think so.

There are so many teams running with access to far less talent, running more college oriented systems. And that’s exactly why they are running those systems.

As Deion showed, you can go to the MAC to get successful “college” oriented offenses.

Deion's son is also pretty darn good. And their offense looked like crap in the first half Saturday.

When it's all said and done, Colorado is going to lose somewhere between 3 & 5 games this year. And I'm skeptical that Colorado has the resources to boost recruiting to a level that will raise their ceiling any higher than where Pitt's is currently at.

 

[303vND]

Cignetti is the reason Addison, Slovis and Patti left. QB's definitely hate playing for him. He is a self centered phony. Pit can not attract a top QB prospect or a transfer becaus of Cignetti. That is a FACT.

Hated the hire from day one!!

 

[Pitt_Boss]

Sitting from the 12th row at the 50 yard line....the WRs were rarely open on any pass play. I don't know if it is because they can't get separation or they aren't being schemed open....but everywhere I looked the WRs were covered. The TEs were open a lot - Johnson in particular - though rarely targeted.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Hated the hire from day one!!

It was a terrible hire from the start. Everyone saw how he was the FIRST time and it was bad.

This university never ceases to amaze in its crapulence in terrible hiring decisions. Yeah, that includes that AD all of you love. She needed to have recognized and stopped this. It was doomed before it started. Great offense is what rules this sport now and Cig is an incompetent dinosaur nobody else wanted, just like Watson.

Narduzzi is no Saban as far as autonomy. He’s ok but that’s all. The AD can’t micromanage everything but needs to overrule him on terrible decisions like this. It literally costs the school millions to hire a terrible coordinator.

Now we (the paying customers) have to wait it out this season, and likely another bad one after it, until they fire him.

 

[cashisking884]

Deion's son is also pretty darn good. And their offense looked like crap in the first half Saturday.

When it's all said and done, Colorado is going to lose somewhere between 3 & 5 games this year. And I'm skeptical that Colorado has the resources to boost recruiting to a level that will raise their ceiling any higher than where Pitt's is currently at.

The issue shouldn’t be whether Colorado’s offense has become elite in one offseason.

Last year their offense was 123 in F+ ranking.

Even if it didn’t put up 30 in the first half against Nebraska, it clearly isn’t 123 this year.

It has shown massive improvement. And they have a ton of plays where dudes are “high school open” as Bud Elliot likes to say, which is something you attribute to the OC.

The real point here is, if FCJ hadn’t been hired by Narduzzi, would anybody have wanted him? Outside of Hafley. And do you really want to be in the same offensive sentence as Hafley?

 

[cashisking884]

This offense sucks, and it feels like they're randomly drawing plays out of a hat. But Jurkovec cannot run a well-oiled efficient offense because he can't consistently hit even short passes. He likes to muddy the game up as much as possible and then just heave an end-over-end duck at someone, because he has to see something; he cannot perceive it. You can't consistently score that way, though. You need some easy passes and some efficiency. Not every play can be an epic saga.

Further, these receivers aren't efficient either. They seldom get open on the initial route. I don't think they could be THAT bad so often, so I have to think that some of it has to do with the way the plays are drawn up. I mean, they were getting over the top somewhat effectively, but those are low percentages throws (Narduzzi's whole defense is predicated on giving you those throws if you can hit them, for instance). But it felt like Cincy had no trouble at all blanketing the initial routes. We need to run way more short crosses. Those are easy for the QB to see and usually open if he can buy the time (which Phil mostly has).

The offense right now is what happens when you put legit 3* players in an offensive system that requires 5* talent to make it work.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

The issue shouldn’t be whether Colorado’s offense has become elite in one offseason.

Last year their offense was 123 in F+ ranking.

Even if it didn’t put up 30 in the first half against Nebraska, it clearly isn’t 123 this year.

It has shown massive improvement. And they have a ton of plays where dudes are “high school open” as Bud Elliot likes to say, which is something you attribute to the OC.

The real point here is, if FCJ hadn’t been hired by Narduzzi, would anybody have wanted him? Outside of Hafley. And do you really want to be in the same offensive sentence as Hafley?

That’s the key. Nobody wanted Shawn Watson. Nobody wanted Cig. There is a reason.

 

[H2P-2007]

The offense right now is what happens when you put legit 3* players in an offensive system that requires 5* talent to make it work.

Agreed. And for 95% of the schools in CFB, that's not realistic.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Sitting from the 12th row at the 50 yard line....the WRs were rarely open on any pass play. I don't know if it is because they can't get separation or they aren't being schemed open....but everywhere I looked the WRs were covered. The TEs were open a lot - Johnson in particular - though rarely targeted.

I sit in the end zone and thought the same thing. I have a pretty good view of it. And it was the same exact situation early last season.

I did think we started getting open when we finally started going over the top, but 1) That was like desperation all-fly-routes time, so I'm not sure how much can be discerned from it, and 2) Phil couldn't hit on those to save his life.

But if we're talking about the initial routes, I'm seeing almost nothing open. And I'm talking not even "NFL open." It doesn't absolve Phil, because there were guys he missed on breakdown plays by about a country mile.

 

[Joe Magarac]

Sitting from the 12th row at the 50 yard line....the WRs were rarely open on any pass play. I don't know if it is because they can't get separation or they aren't being schemed open....but everywhere I looked the WRs were covered. The TEs were open a lot - Johnson in particular - though rarely targeted.

Sit at the 45 in the 500 level, in other words a Birds Eye view.
Watched the Pitt WRs on several series and I beg to differ. The wide receivers were open on numerous plays.
Maybe, one’s point of view has a lot to do with one’s observations; literally and figuratively.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

The offense right now is what happens when you put legit 3* players in an offensive system that requires 5* talent to make it work.

My understanding is that it includes a lot of complex terminology and hinges a lot on guys who aren't getting the ball doing very specific things to open up other routes, etc.

Especially in the transfer portal era, when guys are coming and going like gypsy nomads, it just doesn't seem like a system you would want to implement.

From a fan perspective, I have no idea what this offense is even trying to be. It has no identity, no rhythm... I just don't know what the goal is. Like I said in another thread, Izzy breaking one for 60 can bail you out of a lot of situations, but what happens when you don't have an Izzy?

We just scored 21 points against a defense that I guarantee isn't THAT good. And look how we scored those points. Jurkovec threw up a fluttering prayer to Mumpfield who took it for 30 and got 15 tacked on for a roughing the passer... couple other defensive penalties.... Cincy's defense kind of loosened up with a big lead... I mean, we didn't do a whole lot to earn it.

 

[pierre93]

I wasn't thrilled with the Cignetti hire but seemed like he was getting it going last year. Izzy bailed him out big-time. Cignetti was going to get fired from BC. With all of the OC's out there and we bring him back for a 3rd time?? I'm not going to root against him to fail and want Pitt to succeed. Hope the O plays better!!!! H2P

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I've been a moderate Cignetti defender (still think he calls a better game than some of you) but I am fine with him getting fired if the offense doesn't turn around. I have concerns with the talent level and with the execution of the plays.

That's part of the deal of being a coordinator, expecting results fairly quickly is part of that gig.

 

[TD_6082]

The issue shouldn’t be whether Colorado’s offense has become elite in one offseason.

Last year their offense was 123 in F+ ranking.

Even if it didn’t put up 30 in the first half against Nebraska, it clearly isn’t 123 this year.

It has shown massive improvement. And they have a ton of plays where dudes are “high school open” as Bud Elliot likes to say, which is something you attribute to the OC.

The real point here is, if FCJ hadn’t been hired by Narduzzi, would anybody have wanted him? Outside of Hafley. And do you really want to be in the same offensive sentence as Hafley?

If you replace Shedeur Sanders with JT Shrout or Owen McCown, I promise you it will look a lot closer to 123 than what it resembles this year.

As for FCJ? I don't know if anybody else would want him or not. Probably. College football is full of retreads. Then again, maybe not. Nobody wanted Mark Whipple either.

There's really no such thing as "high school open" that can't be attributed to bad defense. Ultimately, it's about the Jimmys and Joes. Looking at the big picture, the ceiling is for Pitt/TCU/Colorado etc isn't really determined by scheme. It's determined by talent.

And I get your point about 3 star talent etc. But I don't care what you run, it requires talent, or you're eventually going to be exposed. Garrett Riley is a fine OC. But the last two games he's faced a P5 opponent, he put up 7 points against each of them and his offense looked like shit.

 

[Pitt_Boss]

Sit at the 45 in the 500 level, in other words a Birds Eye view.
Watched the Pitt WRs on several series and I beg to differ. The wide receivers were open on numerous plays.
Maybe, one’s point of view has a lot to do with one’s observations; literally and figuratively.

Appreciate the different perspective. Were you seeing WRs open play-side within the fist 3 seconds or so? Not to offend you, but I have friends that tell me how WRs were open and they are pointing at guys way on the weakside were the D sagged on purpose due to the distance or else pointing at guys "open" after the man covering them read the play and pursued the ball and other such things. Again I haven't watched the game back on TV or anything was just going from what I observed, but it's tough to see all the WRs on every play, just commenting on what I noticed when looking.

 

[cashisking884]

If you replace Shedeur Sanders with JT Shrout or Owen McCown, I promise you it will look a lot closer to 123 than what it resembles this year.

As for FCJ? I don't know if anybody else would want him or not. Probably. College football is full of retreads. Then again, maybe not. Nobody wanted Mark Whipple either.

There's really no such thing as "high school open" that can't be attributed to bad defense. Ultimately, it's about the Jimmys and Joes. Looking at the big picture, the ceiling is for Pitt/TCU/Colorado etc isn't really determined by scheme. It's determined by talent.

This is just not true. In Mike Leach’s entire coaching career, I don’t think I can name 5 of his WRs and RBS combined.

Crabtree at WR and Ricky Williams at RB. And I only know Williams because he was there the same time as another Ricky Williams was playing for a Texas school.

 

[pittguy81]

Jurk has horrific mechanics, which is why his throws are all over the place. He can throw a decent ball if he sets his plant foot and steps into the throw....but unfortunately that rarely happens and he usually throw off his back foot moving backwards....or alternately, short arming the ball. He sucks.

 

[TD_6082]

This is just not true. In Mike Leach’s entire coaching career, I don’t think I can name 5 of his WRs and RBS combined.

Crabtree at WR and Ricky Williams at RB. And I only know Williams because he was there the same time as another Ricky Williams was playing for a Texas school.

Had Mississippi State not scored a garbage touchdown on the last play of the game last year against Alabama (a blowout loss, btw) Mike Leach would have went to his grave without ever sniffing the end zone in 3 years against Nick Saban.

And how many conference titles did Mike Leach win?

 

[pitt_134]

Almost Slovis 2.0… PJ is definitely tougher and will run the ball, but theres no pocket passer in him. Only on the move and then god only knows where the ball will actually go.

 

[cashisking884]

Had Mississippi State not scored on the last play of the game last year against Alabama (a blowout loss, btw) Mike Leach would have went to his grave without ever sniffing the end zone in 3 years against Nick Saban.

And how many conference titles did Mike Leach win?

Mike Leach never won a conference title at Texas Tech, Washington State, or Mississippi State???

That’s crazy, considering how much talent those schools bring in and how many conference tittles they routinely won before him.

 

[HailtoPitt]

I was out last year after seeing this play.

 

[TD_6082]

Mike Leach never won a conference title at Texas Tech, Washington State, or Mississippi State???

That’s crazy, considering how much talent those schools bring in and how many conference tittles they routinely won before him.

Thanks for proving my point.

The Pirate really wasn't really close to .500 in the SEC.

If you give FCJ 180 minutes against Nick Saban, even he might be able to find the end zone once or twice.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Are we seriously dissing Mike Leach? All that dude did was take over programs and make them better.

 

[cashisking884]

Are we seriously dissing Mike Leach? All that dude did was take over programs and make them better.

And that’s not really even the point.

Maybe Texas Tech didn’t win as much as it should under Leach (which of course wasn’t the case).

But it’s offense produced way better then it should have, thanks to Leach and the Air Raid. It greatly exceeded its talent level.

The idea that systems can’t get guys high school open, is insane and disproved every Saturday.

I was listening to the Cover 3 recap Podcast yesterday. And Bud Elliot, who I already cited, was talking about the Miami-Texas A&M game. And he talked about how Miami was constantly having WRs so open that you didn’t see A&M players in the tv frame.

This is the exact same QB and WR core as last year that didn’t score a single TD against A&M.

The difference? Instead of Gattis’ “man-ball” offensive system, they are running an Air Raid. And I it took just a single offseason to install it.

 

[TD_6082]

Are we seriously dissing Mike Leach? All that dude did was take over programs and make them better.

Agree.

Kinda sums up what Narduzzi has done at Pitt doesn't it?

 

[cashisking884]

Meanwhile Mississippi State ditched the Air Raid under their new coach, and needed overtime just to get 307 yards against Arizona, at home.

And they threw a 30 yard pass for a TD in overtime. So at the end of 4 quarters, they had 277 yards of offense.

 

[TD_6082]

And that’s not really even the point.

Maybe Texas Tech didn’t win as much as it should under Leach (which of course wasn’t the case).

But it’s offense produced way better then it should have, thanks to Leach and the Air Raid. It greatly exceeded its talent level.

The idea that systems can’t get guys high school open, is insane and disproved every Saturday.

I was listening to the Cover 3 recap Podcast yesterday. And Bud Elliot, who I already cited, was talking about the Miami-Texas A&M game. And he talked about how Miami was constantly having WRs so open that you didn’t see A&M players in the tv frame.

This is the exact same QB and WR core as last year that didn’t score a single TD against A&M.

The difference? Instead of Gattis’ “man-ball” offensive system, they are running an Air Raid. And I it took just a single offseason to install it.

And I promise you Miami's OL makeover is more of a difference maker than scheme in their improvement.

Also, Texas A&M's defense was just atrocious Saturday. That was just a piss poor performance and effort defensively. I haven't seen tackling that piss poor since watching Miami/Pitt from last year.

 

[cashisking884]

And I promise you Miami's OL makeover is more of a difference maker than scheme in their improvement.

Also, Texas A&M's defense was just atrocious Saturday. That was just a piss poor performance and effort defensively. I haven't seen tackling that piss poor since watching Miami/Pitt from last year.

Creating spacing frequently leads to bad tackling. That’s one of the points of doing it.

And looking at the Team stats from last year’s game:

Texas A&M had 0 sacks. Three TFL. Removing the QB runs, Miami’s two RBs averaged 5.3 and 5.5 yards a carry.

I promise you, their OL had nothing to do with why they couldn’t score last year.

It’s that their QB WAS 21/41 at 5.3 a yards a completion.

Basically a lack of spacing made it to where they couldn’t create opportunities for players to do anything, despite their OL dominating.

Enter the Air Raid to save the day.

 

[cashisking884]

Last year, on the road with the Air Raid, Mississippi State has 426 yards of offense against Arizona and scored 39 points.

And that’s with the offense turning it over 3 times.

 

[tps48]

I know that there is a lot of blame to go around, but here’s what I saw on offense:

- A talented OL that made a bunch of mistakes, didn’t communicate well, and didn’t seem well coached
- A mediocre college QB that could succeed in the right college offense
- WRs constantly overthrown, or being asked to make tough catches in small windows
- Situationally questionable playcalling
- Overuse of complicated NFL style motion
- Plays that provided the QB and WRs very tight windows, even if run to the “T”
- Plays that depend on all 11 winning their battles

In my mind, 90% of the blame falls on the OC, as her didn’t put his players in a position to succeed. An OC that tries to “outthink” the opponent using NFL schemes that only work if you have NFL caliber players in all 11 positions - which just isn’t the reality of college football. College football is a game where you identify what guys do well and try to put them in a position to use that skill. Give your best players the ball in space. Our offense is the opposite of that, and it’s not going to be successful unless you’re an Alabama.

Pitt has a loser OC and a loser QB from a loser athletic program. All of the sudden, the schedule looks daunting.

 

[TD_6082]

Creating spacing frequently leads to bad tackling. That’s one of the points of doing it.

And looking at the Team stats from last year’s game:

Texas A&M had 0 sacks. Three TFL. Removing the QB runs, Miami’s two RBs averaged 5.3 and 5.5 yards a carry.

I promise you, their OL had nothing to do with why they couldn’t score last year.

It’s that their QB WAS 21/41 at 5.3 a yards a completion.

Basically a lack of spacing made it to where they couldn’t create opportunities for players to do anything, despite their OL dominating.

Enter the Air Raid to save the day.

X didn't play in that game last year. Had he played, I think Miami probably would have won. Miami also had a shit ton of drops in the TAMU game last year.

Texas A&M tackled the same way Miami did last year against Pitt. Can't win tackling like that.

I'm not sold on either one of those two teams.

 

[TD_6082]

Last year, on the road with the Air Raid, Mississippi State has 426 yards of offense against Arizona and scored 39 points.

And that’s with the offense turning it over 3 times.

Mississippi State will prove once again, that regardless of what they run offensively, they will still be a mediocre, irrelevant SEC program.