PFF 2023 Preseason All-ACC Team

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

This was released on Monday and only has 4 Pitt players on it (Goncalves is 2nd team OT, Sauls is 2nd team K, Zubovic is 3rd team G, and Devonshire is 3rd team CB).

I was annoyed at first, but also didn't see any egregious omissions IMO. Does this not bode well for our season, or do you think some players will outperform expectations?

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I think it's just what happens when you lose six draft picks, a 1,000-yard receiver, and a few other nice pieces. That's why I don't exactly agree with some of the lofty expectations for this season.

Marquis Williams is probably the most glaring omission based on previous play. I could certainly see either Means or Mumpfield making third team or something. Same for Hammond. Possibly Kamara. And then of course ideally Jurkovec.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

This was released on Monday and only has 4 Pitt players on it (Goncalves is 2nd team OT, Sauls is 2nd team K, Zubovic is 3rd team G, and Devonshire is 3rd team CB).

I was annoyed at first, but also didn't see any egregious omissions IMO. Does this not bode well for our season, or do you think some players will outperform expectations?

To not include Jurk as even third team, a QB who already had a very respectable season once before in ACC play, playing for a team with less overall talent then than we do now, AND with his being reunited with the OC that directed him that season … seems a bit dismissive.

There are others that one might think should have gotten bigger consideration, such as Hayes or Bartholomew, who seem to have potential… but they don’t have as much track record as Jurk.

 

[pittmeister]

Honestly, I’m not too worried about preseason rankings or All-ACC teams. When you lose a lot of players, this happens. As fans, we know what we have. Hayes, Hammond, Bartholomew, Williams, and Simon are all undervalued. The season will depend on QB play…

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Honestly, I’m not too worried about preseason rankings or All-ACC teams. When you lose a lot of players, this happens. As fans, we know what we have. Hayes, Hammond, Bartholomew, Williams, and Simon are all undervalued. The season will depend on QB play…

Hopefully those guys ARE pissed by it and work hard to prove those judgements are wrong. Otherwise, yeah, there’s nothing of any worth of any of the preseason material other than to get people talking.

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

To not include Jurk as even third team, a QB who already had a very respectable season once before in ACC play, playing for a team with less overall talent then than we do now, AND with his being reunited with the OC that directed him that season … seems a bit dismissive.

There are others that one might think should have gotten bigger consideration, such as Hayes or Bartholomew, who seem to have potential… but they don’t have as much track record as Jurk.

Maye and Travis seem like the clear 1 and 2 QBs in the league. I don't see Jurk as clearly better than Klubnik or Leonard at Duke, and he's never had a season like TVD or Brennan Armstrong have had when they were playing well. If he's the 3rd best QB in the ACC, we're probably in the title game. I think ranking him in the 5 - 7 range is fair coming into the season.

I would have liked to see Bartholomew or Hammond in there on the offensive side based on the potential they've shown, but it's hard to argue against their omission as well.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

To not include Jurk as even third team, a QB who already had a very respectable season once before in ACC play, playing for a team with less overall talent then than we do now, AND with his being reunited with the OC that directed him that season … seems a bit dismissive.

There are others that one might think should have gotten bigger consideration, such as Hayes or Bartholomew, who seem to have potential… but they don’t have as much track record as Jurk.

I'm trying to think of who the better ACC quarterbacks would be this year. I would have to imagine Maye is #1 and Travis is #2. After that, I assume the dude from Clemson is next. And then you still have Riley Leonard. I'm sure I'm missing one or two. But I'd sign up for Jurkovec even being a top-half ACC QB.

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

I'm trying to think of who the better ACC quarterbacks would be this year. I would have to imagine Maye is #1 and Travis is #2. After that, I assume the dude from Clemson is next. And then you still have Riley Leonard. I'm sure I'm missing one or two. But I'd sign up for Jurkovec even being a top-half ACC QB.

Great minds think alike lol. Looks like I posted something almost identical seconds before you did.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I honestly forgot completely about Van Dyke and Armstrong. Yeah, they should get the benefit of doubt over PJ

 

[cashisking884]

To not include Jurk as even third team, a QB who already had a very respectable season once before in ACC play, playing for a team with less overall talent then than we do now, AND with his being reunited with the OC that directed him that season … seems a bit dismissive.

PFF was never that high on him, even after the 2020 season. He’s only gone down hill since then.

There’s no way they can rank him that high, because their rankings are going to be largely based on their previous grades.

 

[Dan1911]

I love Pitt being an underdog. We usually exceed low expectations. When they're sky high, well, that's another story.

 

[Celtsfan]

Kamara and kradel should be on there!!

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I love Pitt being an underdog. We usually exceed low expectations. When they're sky high, well, that's another story.

Agreed completely. Duz seems to effectively use the “Us against the World” sentiment. Frankly because it IS “Us against the World” (no more so than locally). So it really can’t ring false with our players (like it does when guys like Saban comically will say as such…comically, I say, given that the system is nearly completely fixed in his favor).

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

PFF was never that high on him, even after the 2020 season. He’s only gone down hill since then.

There’s no way they can rank him that high, because their rankings are going to be largely based on their previous grades.

Ignoring any bias PFF may have, do you think Jurk is a top 3 QB in the ACC?

 

[cashisking884]

Ignoring any bias PFF may have, do you think Jurk is a top 3 QB in the ACC?

No. I’d take Armstrong, TVD, Travis, Maye, Leonard, Klubnik, and Hartman if we’re grouping ND with the ACC. And probably take Wake’s guy for no other reason than I think Wake’s system is going to produce big numbers at QB.

 

[Celtsfan]

No. I’d take Armstrong, TVD, Travis, Maye, Leonard, Klubnik, and Hartman if we’re grouping ND with the ACC. And probably take Wake’s guy for no other reason than I think Wake’s system is going to produce big numbers at QB.

Armstrong and TVD both SUCK!!

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

Armstrong and TVD both SUCK!!

They've had comparable careers to Jurk, except both of them had one year that blows anything Jurk has ever done out of the water.

Or are you saying Jurk sucks as well?

 

[Chescat]

As we all know, all conference awards are given, after the season. These
pre season predictions. are meaningless to me. Hell, I remember when Slovis
was listed among the better QB's in America as a pre season selection when
he transferred to Pitt. Some of the players mentioned by posters in this
thread have a very good chance to be named all ACC at season's end.

As for Jurk, his having a mid level ACC ranking makes sense at this time to me,
given his last few years. However, as many on here have said, he's on a better
team now. He's reunited with his past OC, and this is his last shot. He's home
now, and I feel he'll be up there in the ACC QB rankings at seasons end.

 

[LVNVPanther]

The omission of Jake Kradel is scandalous.

 

[cashisking884]

Armstrong and TVD both SUCK!!

I agree they both weren’t very good last year.

But Armstrong was one of the best QBs in college football when he was in the Air Raid.

TVD was one of the most promising QBs in college football when he was in an Air Raid.

Both are going back to an Air Raid offense this year.

Whereas PJ is going back to the offense he was just kind of meh in.

So I’d take those two going back to offensive systems they lit up college football in.

 

[Celtsfan]

I agree they both weren’t very good last year.

But Armstrong was one of the best QBs in college football when he was in the Air Raid.

TVD was one of the most promising QBs in college football when he was in an Air Raid.

Both are going back to an Air Raid offense this year.

Whereas PJ is going back to the offense he was just kind of meh in.

So I’d take those two going back to offensive systems they lit up college football in.

I thought JURK had like 2,700 years and 20+ TD'S to like 5 interceptions. That doesn't sound meh to me!!

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

Hammond and Hayes are under the radar because they shared time the last few years. Understand them not being listed (although it didn’t stop Klubnik and his 100 pass attempts being listed over Leonard or Schrader at QB). But did anyone foresee Izzy having the year he did in 2022? He flashed talent prior to his Jr year, but at the same career point, Hammond has arguably been better. Marquis Williams is one guy that I think has a beef that he should be there however.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Hammond and Hayes are under the radar because they shared time the last few years. Understand them not being listed (although it didn’t stop Klubnik and his 100 pass attempts being listed over Leonard or Schrader at QB). But did anyone foresee Izzy having the year he did in 2022? He flashed talent prior to his Jr year, but at the same career point, Hammond has arguably been better. Marquis Williams is one guy that I think has a beef that he should be there however.

I agree that some guys, who were previously sharing time, will get a lot more reps this season and put up big numbers and make All ACC by virtue of that (Mumpfield, Means, and Hammond are all candidates), but... Shrader is a bum. The box of baking soda beneath my sink will make All ACC before he does.

 

[cashisking884]

I thought JURK had like 2,700 years and 20+ TD'S to like 5 interceptions. That doesn't sound meh to me!!

PJ’s 2020 season he graded out at 71.8.

The cut off point to even receive a starter grade is 70. Anything below that you’re backup to replacement level.

So the season you’re hoping the reunion tour with FCJ will produce again, was *barely* above backup.

Armstrong in 2020 graded out at 90.3. In 2021, he graded out at 91.7.

Anything between 90 and 100 is elite.

And now Armstrong is reunited with Anae.

The two just aren’t even close.

 

[cashisking884]

PFF doesn’t really care as much if you split time, because their grades, and therefore, their all conference projections, aren’t necessarily tied to production or lack there of.

They care about how you actually graded out as a player when you did play. Then give you a grade. And then largely rank players based on that.

So you could have a RB that never scored a TD all year, but is PFF’s First Team All Conference RB, because he still graded out in quality of player better than anybody else.

 

[HailtoPitt]

This was released on Monday and only has 4 Pitt players on it (Goncalves is 2nd team OT, Sauls is 2nd team K, Zubovic is 3rd team G, and Devonshire is 3rd team CB).

I was annoyed at first, but also didn't see any egregious omissions IMO. Does this not bode well for our season, or do you think some players will outperform expectations?

Doesn't matter. Pitt once had half of the All Big East First Team and still managed to come in third.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

PJ’s 2020 season he graded out at 71.8.

The cut off point to even receive a starter grade is 70. Anything below that you’re backup to replacement level.

So the season you’re hoping the reunion tour with FCJ will produce again, was *barely* above backup.

Armstrong in 2020 graded out at 90.3. In 2021, he graded out at 91.7.

Anything between 90 and 100 is elite.

And now Armstrong is reunited with Anae.

The two just aren’t even close.

Yeah, I never watched him in 2020 and thought, "Damn, this is a great quarterback." It was more like thinking he is huge and does some things well, so if he kept progressing he could become one.

But, quite honestly, I've seen some of the most awful QB play I remember watching from him since 2020. I know he's had some injuries, but color me skeptical as to what he can be. I suppose there's a chance it all comes together for him this season. But there's also a chance we go to the bullpen by about game four or five.

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

I thought JURK had like 2,700 years and 20+ TD'S to like 5 interceptions. That doesn't sound meh to me!

He had 17 TDs in his best year, which is a little over 1 per game. He's been meh at best so far, I hope this is the year he puts it all together.

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

I know they don’t base their ranking off of stats or reps. They are still subject to sample size and their own bias. If a guy makes a couple flash plays in limited reps they are still going to weight that different lot based upon the school, recruit ranking, where he transferred from, etc. To say nothing of selection bias, where they make sure to watch certain players or teams more closely. Unless you think they actually watched every rep of every ACC player last year.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I suppose there's a chance it all comes together for him this season. But there's also a chance we go to the bullpen by about game four or five.

The only thing I can really offer is that a lot of what you wrote could also have been said about Kenny Pickett leading up to his senior season. KP elicited some flashes but serious doubts right up to the end of his junior season.

It is highly unlikely this similarity alone will assure, well, anything. But it suggests if the physical tools are there, there is consistent coaching, he is healthy, and has a good team around him, he could make a significant improvement…which apparently next to nobody is expecting. Well, chip on the shoulder, Phil.

If he still stinks, my only wish is that Duz isn’t a rockhead about lifting him like he was with Slovis. We have to win. Hurt feelings (whether Phil or Cig), previous promises, or appearances to future transfers be dammed. You don’t deliver, you’re Clipboard Cliff.

 

[cashisking884]

Yeah, I never watched him in 2020 and thought, "Damn, this is a great quarterback." It was more like thinking he is huge and does some things well, so if he kept progressing he could become one.

But, quite honestly, I've seen some of the most awful QB play I remember watching from him since 2020. I know he's had some injuries, but color me skeptical as to what he can be. I suppose there's a chance it all comes together for him this season. But there's also a chance we go to the bullpen by about game four or five.

In terms of pure physical talent he’s arguably the best QB in the ACC. Maybe even the country. He’s going to be drafted by the NFL regardless of how he performs, he’s just that physically gifted.

 

[cashisking884]

The only thing I can really offer is that a lot of what you wrote could also have been said about Kenny Pickett leading up to his senior season. KP elicited some flashes but serious doubts right up to the end of his junior season.

It is highly unlikely this similarity alone will assure, well, anything. But it suggests if the physical tools are there, there is consistent coaching, he is healthy, and has a good team around him, he could make a significant improvement…which apparently next to nobody is expecting. Well, chip on the shoulder, Phil.

If he still stinks, my only wish is that Duz isn’t a rockhead about lifting him like he was with Slovis. We have to win. Hurt feelings (whether Phil or Cig), previous promises, or appearances to future transfers be dammed. You don’t deliver, you’re Clipboard Cliff.

But it rarely ever happens.

About this time last year the dude from Cover3 put out an article titled something like, “Candidates to be this year’s Kenny Pickett.”

And Slovis and others were on the list. But the big qualifier in the article was: chances are there isn’t one. Because KP rarely ever happens. So bet against the entire field.

Which kind of goes to my initial point. I’d bet on Armstrong getting closer to being the QB he was now that he’s reunited with his old OC, before I bet on any QB going from “meh” to “elite” in their senior season.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

The only thing I can really offer is that a lot of what you wrote could also have been said about Kenny Pickett leading up to his senior season. KP elicited some flashes but serious doubts right up to the end of his junior season.

It is highly unlikely this similarity alone will assure, well, anything. But it suggests if the physical tools are there, there is consistent coaching, he is healthy, and has a good team around him, he could make a significant improvement…which apparently next to nobody is expecting. Well, chip on the shoulder, Phil.

If he still stinks, my only wish is that Duz isn’t a rockhead about lifting him like he was with Slovis. We have to win. Hurt feelings (whether Phil or Cig), previous promises, or appearances to future transfers be dammed. You don’t deliver, you’re Clipboard Cliff.

Definitely going into 2020 there were people who thought that Yellen might give Pickett a run for his money. Seems absolutely hilarious to say now. But I thought he was way better than his stats in 2020. Like he flashed some things in the years before that, but I thought he was pretty legit that season. He just, for whatever reason, didn't have the touchdown-to-interception ratio to back it up.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

All I ask then is that, don’t allow a couple imminently winnable games to slip away waiting for him to “finally pull it all together” like last season in games vs knuckle dragger opponents, with the defense playing on top of its heads yet we still trail 13-3 toward the fourth quarter because the QB is dealing with internal demons. You brought in an insurance policy for him in case he stinks, so put it into effect

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Definitely agree with that as a rule of thumb, though I'm much less of a Patti enthusiast than many on this board, and I think he would have been exposed harshly had he strung together multiple starts (as opposed to just being a jolt of energy every once in a while). I think fans are always paranoid of the, "They're only leaving him in there because they know if they yank him then we'll never get another transfer who is trying to audition for the NFL" angle. And I imagine it's legit to an extent. I'm sure it makes the leash longer by at least a little bit.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

This was released on Monday and only has 4 Pitt players on it (Goncalves is 2nd team OT, Sauls is 2nd team K, Zubovic is 3rd team G, and Devonshire is 3rd team CB).

I was annoyed at first, but also didn't see any egregious omissions IMO. Does this not bode well for our season, or do you think some players will outperform expectations?

What is “PFF”? I never heard of it. Can someone please enlighten me?

 

[cashisking884]

What is “PFF”? I never heard of it. Can someone please enlighten me?

Pro Football Focus.

Some people hate it.

Others think it gets some position grades right enough, while completely missing on others.

I don’t know of anybody that loves it.

But a lot of analytic types think it’s a useful tool to at least cite, even if it’s not gospel.

The people I like the most. Like Bud Elliot. They like PFF enough that I think there’s some merit to it.

 

[cashisking884]

Definitely going into 2020 there were people who thought that Yellen might give Pickett a run for his money. Seems absolutely hilarious to say now. But I thought he was way better than his stats in 2020. Like he flashed some things in the years before that, but I thought he was pretty legit that season. He just, for whatever reason, didn't have the touchdown-to-interception ratio to back it up.

There was a run of years there after 2016 where the offense never ranked higher than the 80s in any analytic ranking, and you can cherry pick the ranking. And it was in the 100s a few years.

And whether that was a Narduzzi/Whipple scheme problem was hard to tell, because KP was the common denominator at QB those years. So I think there were people, and I was probably one, that was ready for KP to move on so we could see if a Saban-Kiffin moment was desperately needed.

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

In terms of pure physical talent he’s arguably the best QB in the ACC. Maybe even the country. He’s going to be drafted by the NFL regardless of how he performs, he’s just that physically gifted.

To be clear, you're claiming that Phil Jurkovec might be the most physically talented QB in the entire country?

 

[steelcurtain55.]

I always take PFF with a grain of salt. It stirs some thought on topics for sure.

One thing I thought was crazy was PFF saying PITT was one of the highest pressure teams through the blitz. If you know the PITT data, you know they can't tell the difference between a LB actually reading keys and reacting aggressively and an obviously called blitz.