PIAA Releases Classification Parameters

[pittdan77]

Interesting which schools will fall at the top or bottom of their class now in Football and Basketball.

FOOTBALL

1A 1-140; 2A 141-200; 3A 201-282; 4A 283-397; 5A 398-563; 6A 564 and above.

BOYS BASKETBALL

1A 1-94; 2A 95-149; 3A 150-218; 4A 219-320; 5A 321-502; 6A 503 and above.

GIRLS BASKETBALL

1A 1-96; 2A 97-147; 3A 148-215; 4A 216-316; 5A 317-467; 6A 468 and above.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...hool-pennsylvania-sports/stories/201511200282

 

[Saboteur]

Interesting which schools will fall at the top or bottom of their class now in Football and Basketball.

FOOTBALL

1A 1-140; 2A 141-200; 3A 201-282; 4A 283-397; 5A 398-563; 6A 564 and above.

BOYS BASKETBALL

1A 1-94; 2A 95-149; 3A 150-218; 4A 219-320; 5A 321-502; 6A 503 and above.

GIRLS BASKETBALL

1A 1-96; 2A 97-147; 3A 148-215; 4A 216-316; 5A 317-467; 6A 468 and above.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...hool-pennsylvania-sports/stories/201511200282

This is a square peg in a round hole issue.
Enrollments change all the time...they have since day 1.
The problem, as I see it, is that the WPIAL controls the schedule and has "switched'' teams/conferences. In places outside of PA (where BTW, you can actually buy beer like an adult since Prohibition was truly repealed), the high school coaches make their own schedules and playoffs are not based on what a bunch of middle aged or older men sitting in a room decide they are going to be.
For instance, Quaker valley and Cornell ended their sharing relationship this year because if QV counted the cornell kids, QV would go up a class in football. Since QV can't control its own schedule (that is done by the WPIAL), they don't want to go up.
The problem is not the PIAA or the schools.
It is the entrenched good ole boys at the WPIAL.
That is my opinion anyway having lived and played in another state.

 

[Pghfan]

This is a square peg in a round hole issue.
Enrollments change all the time...they have since day 1.
The problem, as I see it, is that the WPIAL controls the schedule and has "switched'' teams/conferences. In places outside of PA (where BTW, you can actually buy beer like an adult since Prohibition was truly repealed), the high school coaches make their own schedules and playoffs are not based on what a bunch of middle aged or older men sitting in a room decide they are going to be.
For instance, Quaker valley and Cornell ended their sharing relationship this year because if QV counted the cornell kids, QV would go up a class in football. Since QV can't control its own schedule (that is done by the WPIAL), they don't want to go up.
The problem is not the PIAA or the schools.
It is the entrenched good ole boys at the WPIAL.
That is my opinion anyway having lived and played in another state.

You can't buy beer in pa?

 

[wbrpanther]

This is a square peg in a round hole issue.
Enrollments change all the time...they have since day 1.
The problem, as I see it, is that the WPIAL controls the schedule and has "switched'' teams/conferences. In places outside of PA (where BTW, you can actually buy beer like an adult since Prohibition was truly repealed), the high school coaches make their own schedules and playoffs are not based on what a bunch of middle aged or older men sitting in a room decide they are going to be.
For instance, Quaker valley and Cornell ended their sharing relationship this year because if QV counted the cornell kids, QV would go up a class in football. Since QV can't control its own schedule (that is done by the WPIAL), they don't want to go up.
The problem is not the PIAA or the schools.
It is the entrenched good ole boys at the WPIAL.
That is my opinion anyway having lived and played in another state.

Actually this is based on the enrollment of boys or girls in the freshman, sophomore and junior classes at the time of submission this year. Once those figures are in they don't change during the 2 year cycle, even though the actual enrollment may change. The WPIAL tries to configure it's conferences and schedules according to the Class assigned to it's teams. I don't see what this "good ole boys network" claim has to do with anything.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Actually this is based on the enrollment of boys or girls in the freshman, sophomore and junior classes at the time of submission this year. Once those figures are in they don't change during the 2 year cycle, even though the actual enrollment may change. The WPIAL tries to configure it's conferences and schedules according to the Class assigned to it's teams. I don't see what this "good ole boys network" claim has to do with anything.

Yeah, I'd really like to hear about some of the states across the country that don't have any leagues what so ever so the coaches can make the schedule up however they like. I'd especially like to hear about how these states decide who makes the playoffs and who doesn't. Like in this area, if Latrobe decided that they were tired of having losing seasons and could set their own schedule they could schedule a bunch of smaller schools, Derry, Southmoreland, GCC, Jeanette, etc, and then win all or almost all of their games. Would they then make the playoffs because they were undefeated or would they not make the playoffs because they played a schedule filled with non-competitive opponents?

Right now the WPIAL sees which schools are in which classes and then they make up sections to keep the section teams as close together as they can. Of course it doesn't always work very well, because there aren't always enough schools in a certain class that are particularly close together. But the alternative, which is what it seems like the OP is advocating, would be having local leagues with no regard to class, which would leave you with leagues with teams like Hempfield (one of the largest AAAA schools in the WPIAL) in the same conference with Greensburg Central Catholic (one of the smaller A schools in the WPIAL). Would anyone really want to watch Hempfield beat them 60-6 year after year after year?

 

[pittdan77]

The WPIAL is like one big conference. Other districts don't operate that way. District 6 has several conferences that schools have to apply to if they want to join. District has no say. You actually end up with schools from different Districts in the same conference that wouldn't meet in the playoffs until States. The only way they can seed teams is through some odd point system. It's really messed up.

 

[Burgh15]

Right now the WPIAL sees which schools are in which classes and then they make up sections to keep the section teams as close together as they can. Of course it doesn't always work very well, because there aren't always enough schools in a certain class that are particularly close together. But the alternative, which is what it seems like the OP is advocating, would be having local leagues with no regard to class, which would leave you with leagues with teams like Hempfield (one of the largest AAAA schools in the WPIAL) in the same conference with Greensburg Central Catholic (one of the smaller A schools in the WPIAL). Would anyone really want to watch Hempfield beat them 60-6 year after year after year?

Typically, but the WPIAL also builds conferences for competition. They don't want a terrible team locking up a top seed because they're in a bad conference. The end goal of the WPIAL tournament is to send the best teams to the state playoffs. Though, I would love to see more "local" rivalry games back on the schedule. Not only would it give the kids something to be excited about, but it would decrease travel and increase attendance and concessions for the home teams. The WPIAL also needs to schedule all exhibition games at the start of the season. No use for these games at the end.

 

[CentPaPittFan]

The WPIAL is like one big conference. Other districts don't operate that way. District 6 has several conferences that schools have to apply to if they want to join. District has no say. You actually end up with schools from different Districts in the same conference that wouldn't meet in the playoffs until States. The only way they can seed teams is through some odd point system. It's really messed up.

Even this doesn't really work.......State College (District 6) plays in the Mid Penn Conference with Cumberland Valley, Harrisburg, Central Dauphin, CD East, Carlisle, Chambersburg..... etc, last year they finished 4th or 5th. This year same thing I think. But doesn't matter to them, since they one of the few AAAA teams in District 6 they make the state playoffs or sub regional at least anyway.....

Anyway - my whole beef has been with the AAAA and now AAAAAA, nothing changed. A smaller AAAA/AAAAAA school like Carlisle has 580 boys..... barely over the limit.......they are still in the highest group. They play schools that have 1000+ in enrollment numbers.....400-500 differential. While in AAA the differential between highest/lowest is 79 kids. AAAA about 90 kids, even AAAAA, maybe 150 kids is the largest it can be....in AAAAAA it is into the 100's and seriously I am not kidding maybe 1000. In the lower classes the disparity in numbers can be there but can never be more than that, in AAAAAA the smaller schools are at a severe disadvantage number wise, doesn't mean you can't win but it is very hard to sustain programs. Girls sports in the fall at smaller AAAA/AAAAAA (There are only AA/AAA in some sports) are pounded worse since girls have 6 fall sports options...... Consider a small AAAA with 475 girls fielding teams in Cross Country, Golf, Field Hockey, Volleyball, Tennis, Soccer........ Tough choice and hard to get numbers to sustain programs.
I could give a lot of examples.

 

[JHud986]

Does anyo9ne think that the wpial will pull out of the pial? I just get the feeling that they are tired of
being pushed into shortening the season for the playoffs. I think that the wpial would like to go back to the
old western conference championships games at Heinz.

 

[JHud986]

Does anyo9ne think that the wpial will pull out of the pial? I just get the feeling that they are tired of
being pushed into shortening the season for the playoffs. I think that the wpial would like to go back to the
old western conference championships games at Heinz.

 

[CentPaPittFan]

Does anyo9ne think that the wpial will pull out of the pial? I just get the feeling that they are tired of
being pushed into shortening the season for the playoffs. I think that the wpial would like to go back to the
old western conference championships games at Heinz.

Despite all the blustery talk there is NO WAY WPIAL pulls out of PIAA.....no way.......too many District 7 teams compete and win state championships in multiple sports, girls and boys..............no way they pull out.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Typically, but the WPIAL also builds conferences for competition.

Name for me some of the teams that are playing in a conference that makes no geographic sense merely to help competition. An example would be doing something like putting Butler in the same section as the Westmoreland County schools or something similar. Don't think too hard, because you are going to have a hard time coming up with any real examples.

The fact is that geography is the overriding factor. Sometimes there aren't enough schools in a particular geographic area to make a full section, and then some teams get moved into a section that isn't the best fit for them, but it is the one that makes the most sense to even out the number of teams in each section. The only way to stop that would be to do something like have some sections with 12 teams and others with 6 (as an example), and that would be really stupid.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I just get the feeling that they are tired of being pushed into shortening the season for the playoffs.

The WPIAL hasn't been pushed to shorten their season for the state playoffs. The WPIAL shortened their regular season so that they could have 16 teams in each class make the playoffs rather than the 8 that would make sense and make for more competitive games. But, as has been said before, the WPIAL doesn't make any money in the 10th week of the season if those are regular season games. But they do if those are playoff games. That was the real reason the WPIAL shortened the regular season, not because of something the state forced them into. But of course given the choice between blaming the mean ol' PIAA for costing everyone a regular season game or telling everyone that there is one less regular season game so that the WPIAL can sell more tickets to more playoff games it isn't hard to figure out which one they were going to pick.