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Pick Your All-Time Big East/ACC Pitt Hoops Roster ...

Bethlehemjohn said:
Yeah, but he was all Canada and once scored 41 points in a game.
Click to expand...
Everyone seems to be having a good time at my expense,

Serious question for you: Do you believe Kendalls contribution exceeded at least 6 people on the original list?
 
DiehardPanther said:
Is this based strictly on college performance or are you factoring in the pros? For example, I would not have Adams if this were just college, but would if you are factoring in the pros.
Click to expand...
Whatever you want.
 
gary2 said:
Everyone seems to be having a good time at my expense,

Serious question for you: Do you believe Kendalls contribution exceeded at least 6 people on the original list?
Click to expand...
In the interest of ending this aspect of the thread, I will add Levon.
 
Do not want bigs to slow the team down, so no true centers, but both teams have an elite rebounder, who can board with any center, regardless of size. Tried to balance two teams for right chemistry.

First Five:

Blair
C Smith
S young
V Cummings
L Fields

Second Five

Lane
B Shorter
D Gore
Aiken
B. Knight

Reserves:
Wannamaker-all around player, might get more minutes than some in top ten
Vaughn-Shooter, scorer if down
J Brown-If ahead, lock down defender

First four in case of injuries, grad transfers, or go in NBA draft
J Page (shooting guards were toughest for me to evaluate, some played on bad teams)
Lamar Patterson
R Greer
Troutman
 
I’m assuming while at Pitt thereby eliminating a guy like Adams
.
My issue is 5 best players or best team ?

Billy Knight is my all time fav Pitt bb player , my second favorite is Brian Shorter so any team I make up includes him . Those of you who never saw his dominance his soph or jr yrs you missed a truly special
player . He was a smaller version of Blair with far better post moves , but he was still a beast under the boards . A front court of Shorter , Lane and Blair or Smith , Lane and Shorter means you would need two great shooting guards which means no B Knight on your starting 5. A front court of Blair , Young and Artis would probably be better than those others , but Young and Artis weren’t better players at Pitt than Shorter, Smith or Lane . Very difficult to separate the better players or better team . My best team has to include both Shorter and Knight therefore I have to pick players who compliment them
Best team
B Knight as my point guard
Sam Young as my second guard
Charles Smith at center
Artis and Shorter as my forwards ( I need another outside threat other than Sam Young and another guy with ball handling skills therefore Artis )
Bench would be Krauser and Miller as backup pgs , Page and Mathews as shooting guards JBrown defensive specialist Lane & MYoung as forwards and Blair . Don’t need Blair and Shorter on court at the same time
Second team
Krauser
Mathews/Page
Blair
Lane
Young

Best five regardless of position
Shorter
Smith
Lane
Blair
Sam Young

X and Trey need more exp to crack these lineups , but definitely on all rookie team ( another team to assemble )
 
Fsgolfdr said:
I’m assuming while at Pitt thereby eliminating a guy like Adams
.
My issue is 5 best players or best team ?

Billy Knight is my all time fav Pitt bb player , my second favorite is Brian Shorter so any team I make up includes him . Those of you who never saw his dominance his soph or jr yrs you missed a truly special
player . He was a smaller version of Blair with far better post moves , but he was still a beast under the boards . A front court of Shorter , Lane and Blair or Smith , Lane and Shorter means you would need two great shooting guards which means no B Knight on your starting 5. A front court of Blair , Young and Artis would probably be better than those others , but Young and Artis weren’t better players at Pitt than Shorter, Smith or Lane . Very difficult to separate the better players or better team . My best team has to include both Shorter and Knight therefore I have to pick players who compliment them
Best team
B Knight as my point guard
Sam Young as my second guard
Charles Smith at center
Artis and Shorter as my forwards ( I need another outside threat other than Sam Young and another guy with ball handling skills therefore Artis )
Bench would be Krauser and Miller as backup pgs , Page and Mathews as shooting guards JBrown defensive specialist Lane & MYoung as forwards and Blair . Don’t need Blair and Shorter on court at the same time
Second team
Krauser
Mathews/Page
Blair
Lane
Young

Best five regardless of position
Shorter
Smith
Lane
Blair
Sam Young

X and Trey need more exp to crack these lineups , but definitely on all rookie team ( another team to assemble )
Click to expand...
I think I see a 1st and 2nd team here. Who are your last three regardless of position to fill out the roster — per the rules.
 
1st
Fields
Matthews
Sam Young
Smith
Blair

2nd
Krauser
Gibbs
Greer
Lane
Blount

Reserves
Wanamaker
Porter
Vaughn

Halftime Entertainer
Levon doing his best Liberace
 
SoufOaklin4Life said:
Starters
Levance
Brad
Sam young
Zavackas
Steven Adams
Backups
Krauser
Lamar Patterson
Chevy
Charles Smith
Bench
Cam Johnson
Aaron gray
Trey mcgowens
Click to expand...
Think you are missing one - I count only 12 - it. seems you are 1 short;)

Levance, Brad, Sam young, Zavackas, Steven Adams
Krauser, Lamar Paterson, Chevy, Charles Smith, the missing 1
Cam Johnson, Aaron gray, Trey mcgowens
 
Last edited:
MarshallGoldberg said:
I did this before with a 12 man rotation. Basically i'd keep what I put below the same but add Vonteego.

PG - Brandin Knight. i briefly tried to make an argument for sean miller but knight could carry a team if he needed too (and create his own offense), miller never could have. so i'd start knight but use miller frequently and not carry three point guards, because i'd always want one of these two on the floor.

SG - Julius Page. yeah, he couldn't shoot as well as jason matthews and curtis aiken was more talented. but julius was a lock down defender and jamie dixon is coaching this team, so he'd want julius out there. jason and curtis will come in as needed.

SF - Darelle Porter. maybe one of my more controversial picks. with miller, matthews, and aiken coming off the bench, i don't really need another "sixth man." so i'd start one. i'd rather have another smart player, good defender, and decent shooter who can guard a small forward or a third guard in three guard rotation teams. also, look in pitt's record books -- porter got steals and made shots.

PF - DeJuan Blair. jerome lane had a higher ceiling but blair was more consistent. you need your team to win night in and night out. blair was steady, effective, and always put in effort on both ends of the floor. an anchor of our highest ranked teams.

C - Charles Smith. no brainer that he has to start on this team. i'd argue he was the best pitt player of the big east era. probably also the co-captain with brandin. my bench will include a couple of big bodies for times where charles was too small, but i'd still start him in those games and move him to forward, which was his NBA position anyway.

Sixth man/back-up SG - Curtis Aiken Arguably should be starting.
Seventh man – Demetrius Gore. All around scorer and baller, four year starter, utility man.
Shooting specialist - Jason Matthews. One of the best shooters in Big East history. Imagine him on a team with a real coach.
First big off the bench - Aaron Gray. Will play more minutes in games where Charles is out sized. He's a true old school back to the basket center, and every team should have one.
Back up power forward – Jerome Lane. Uniquely talented player, can be used to “go small” and run the court but still rebound. Chevy Troutman may have been more steady, but I already have Blair for that. Lane is too talented to waste, and could dribble and defend the perimeter better than Chevy.
Versatile scoring forward – Brian Shorter. 20 points a game his first two years before his mystery illness, shot 60% from the field as a freshman and 54% for his career. Maybe you can argue for Jaron Brown or Troutman again here, but Shorter was a supremely efficient player who deserves a chance to play for time traveling Jamie Dixon.
12th man – Chad Varga. Let's face it, your 12th man is going to be a cheer leading white guy with a good attitude. He's not going to get many minutes on a team this talentedM Has has a career as an inspirational speaker, and was way more athletic than my other thoughts here (Jason Maile, Donatas Zavackas, and coach Willard's son.) And if he did have to get into a game, he was a good rebounder, defender, shot blocker, and could mix it up if there was a brawl.

Head Coach - Jamie Dixon. no question here.
Assistant coach for defense – Ben Howland.
Assistants in charge of recruiting - Roy Chipman ($$) and John Calipari ($$$)
Director of basketball operations – Orlando Antigua. Almost put him on the team too.
Click to expand...

Need one more.
 
Starting 5
Brandin Knight
Brad Wanamaker
Lamar Patterson
Charles Smith
DeJuan Blair

Second 5
Levance Fields
Vonteego Cummings
Clyde Vaughan
Brian Shorter
Aaron Gray

Role Players
Steven Adams
Sam Young
Jaron Brown
 
Based Strictly on College - I went with a starting lineup for the 1st and 2nd teams. Shorter was better than Gray, but pairing him up with Lane would overlap their games.

Starters:
Knight
Vaughan
Young
Smith
Blair

Backups:
Fields
Matthews
Patterson
Lane
Gray

Bonus dudes:
Shorter
Wanamaker
Cummings

Coaching Staff - Based Upon Their Highest Position at Pitt

HC - Howland
AC - Calipari
AC - Dixon
AC - Miller
 
Last edited:
DT_PITT said:
Yes … yet another “Nostalgia Thread.”

This one was inspired by the introduction of the Panther Hoops Alumni Introduced at halftime tonight. Just like could be found in some of our past nostalgia threads, the introductions did indeed introduce Rich Carrigan and Herb Lake.

But there were some Panther greats there as well.

So I’d like my fellow Panther Lair posters to join me in selecting an “All Star Pitt Roster” from the Big East and ACC Eras.

The endgame with this thread is to determine what the PantherLair thinks is the BEST 13 man roster of Pitt All Star players beginning with the 1982-1983 season.

Here’s the rules …

1) From the list below (choosing anyone not on the lost really isn't legit) ... name your starting five. Your starting five doesn't need to stick to a "strict" 1-2-3-4-5 position format. For example, feel free to start three guards if you wish. Or a twin tower, two center look. Basically pick an actual starting five that you might start if you were the coach. I will award 5 points for everyone on your starting five.

2) Name your "second five" using the same rules as in point one. I will award 3 points for everyone on your second five.

3) Name three more players to fill out the final three scholarships on your roster. These last three don't have to follow any particular positions. Just three more players you'd want on your team if you were coach. Each of these three will get 1 point.

I will add up any entries and their points in about a week or so.

Points/Guards
George Allen
Curtis Aiken
Sean Miller
Jason Matthews
Jerry McCollough
Jason Maile
Andre Aldridge
Vonteego Cummings
Julius Page
Brandin Knight
Carl Krauser
Ron Ramon
Levance Fields
Jermaine Dixon
Ashton Gibbs
Brad Wanamaker
Tray Woodall
James Robinson
Marcus Carr
Trey McGowens
Xavier Johnson

Wings
Clyde Vaughan
Demetrius Gore
Rod Brookin
Darelle Porter
Orlando Antigua
Jarrett Lockhart
Chad Varga
Ricky Greer
Jaron Brown
Mike Cook
Sam Young
Gilbert Brown
Nasir Robinson
Cameron Wright
Lamar Patterson
Jamel Artis
Cameron Johnson
Jared Wilson Frame

Bigs
Charles Smith
Jerome Lane
Brian Shorter
Bobby Martin
Chris McNeal
Eric Mobley
Darin Morningstar
Chris Gant
Jaime Peterson
Mark Blount
Issac Hawkins
Chris Seabrooks
Donatas Zavackas
Ontario Lett
Chevy Troutman
Chris Taft
Levon Kendall
Aaron Gray
DeJuan Blair
Gary McGhee
Talib Zanna
Steven Adams
Mike Young
Click to expand...
I've only followed them since 2002 (the year the Pete opened), so I'm just going with what I've seen since then:

Starters
Fields
Wanamaker
Sam Young
Troutman
Blair

Second wave
Krauser
Ramon
Patterson
Jaron Brown
Aaron Gray

Specialists
Paige to lock down someone
Kendall for some length and to play the piano
Gibbs for a 3-pointer
 
DT_PITT said:
Need one more.
Click to expand...

It's in my intro paragraph. Vonteego.
Basically my basis is ONLY their Pitt careers (which is why I took senior Aaron Gray over freshman Steven Adams, even if Adams is the much better player overall.)

And I did have a bias towards some of the 1980s guys, because I think they really could have excelled if coached by a Howland or Dixon instead of Evans.

I also included role players like Porter because I am trying to make a "real" team here. It's like the Olympic teams, it was smart for the US Olympic teams to have guys like Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala, and Tyson Chandler along side the Lebrons and Durants.
 
MarshallGoldberg said:
It's in my intro paragraph. Vonteego.
Basically my basis is ONLY their Pitt careers (which is why I took senior Aaron Gray over freshman Steven Adams, even if Adams is the much better player overall.)

And I did have a bias towards some of the 1980s guys, because I think they really could have excelled if coached by a Howland or Dixon instead of Evans.

I also included role players like Porter because I am trying to make a "real" team here. It's like the Olympic teams, it was smart for the US Olympic teams to have guys like Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala, and Tyson Chandler along side the Lebrons and Durants.
Click to expand...
Cool
 
gary2 said:
Everyone seems to be having a good time at my expense,

Serious question for you: Do you believe Kendalls contribution exceeded at least 6 people on the original list?
Click to expand...
Yes.

I wouldn't have included Carr and many others. However, it's DT's game and list. He just provided it as a guide. Write in's are accepted. He missed Vonteego too and he will be on many people's top 13.
 
Bethlehemjohn said:
Yes.

I wouldn't have included Carr and many others. However, it's DT's game and list. He just provided it as a guide. Write in's are accepted. He missed Vonteego too and he will be on many people's top 13.
Click to expand...
As always, thank you for your reply. I will not ask you to comment on anything else related to this thread.
 
Starters:
Fields
Knight
Wannamaker
Blair
Smith

2nd Team:
Cummings
Mathews
Vaughn
Patterson
Mobley

Extra Dudes:
Ice
Jaron
Gray
 
Vaughan has to be on the list. He averaged 21.9 & 20.3 in his two Big East seasons.

In 82-83 nobody else on the team averaged double figures. In 83-83 George Allen was the only other guy in doubles, at 11.7.

Clyde also averaged 9.2 & 8.3 rebounds.
 
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PittAU said:
Vaughan has to be on the list. He averaged 21.9 & 20.3 in his two Big East seasons.

In 82-83 nobody else on the team averaged double figures. In 83-83 George Allen was the only other guy in doubles, at 11.7.

Clyde also averaged 9.2 & 8.3 rebounds.
Click to expand...

A little before my time but would you rank him above Blair, a near national player of the year in terms of votes? Or Charles Smith, who I could also imagine as a 4 if you had a Gray or Adams at the 5?
 
I was just looking and the Willard years were nuts. In 94-95 we had five guys average double figure scoring, and finished 10-18 & 5-13.

In 96-97, as a sophomore Cummings averaged 16.3 & 4.2 assists. As a junior 19.5 & 5.9, and 16.1 & 4.3 his senior year. Those three years we went 5-13, 6-12, & 5-13 in Big East games.

Ouch.
 
MarshallGoldberg said:
A little before my time but would you rank him above Blair, a near national player of the year in terms of votes? Or Charles Smith, who I could also imagine as a 4 if you had a Gray or Adams at the 5?
Click to expand...

I always thought Charles would have been an awesome 4, over having to play with his back to the hoop.

Vaughan was special, with not a lot of help from the players around him, as we ventured into the Big East of Pat Ewing, Chris Mullin and Ed Pinkney.

I'm not going to say he should replace many of the best we have had, but he is on the list of best we ever had. Adams can't be on the list. As much as we would have liked it to be better, he is not on the list.
 
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DT_PITT said:
Yes … yet another “Nostalgia Thread.”

This one was inspired by the introduction of the Panther Hoops Alumni Introduced at halftime tonight. Just like could be found in some of our past nostalgia threads, the introductions did indeed introduce Rich Carrigan and Herb Lake.

But there were some Panther greats there as well.

So I’d like my fellow Panther Lair posters to join me in selecting an “All Star Pitt Roster” from the Big East and ACC Eras.

The endgame with this thread is to determine what the PantherLair thinks is the BEST 13 man roster of Pitt All Star players beginning with the 1982-1983 season.

Here’s the rules …

1) From the list below (choosing anyone not on the lost really isn't legit) ... name your starting five. Your starting five doesn't need to stick to a "strict" 1-2-3-4-5 position format. For example, feel free to start three guards if you wish. Or a twin tower, two center look. Basically pick an actual starting five that you might start if you were the coach. I will award 5 points for everyone on your starting five.

2) Name your "second five" using the same rules as in point one. I will award 3 points for everyone on your second five.

3) Name three more players to fill out the final three scholarships on your roster. These last three don't have to follow any particular positions. Just three more players you'd want on your team if you were coach. Each of these three will get 1 point.

I will add up any entries and their points in about a week or so.

Points/Guards
George Allen
Curtis Aiken
Sean Miller
Jason Matthews
Jerry McCollough
Jason Maile
Andre Aldridge
Vonteego Cummings
Julius Page
Brandin Knight
Carl Krauser
Ron Ramon
Levance Fields
Jermaine Dixon
Ashton Gibbs
Brad Wanamaker
Tray Woodall
James Robinson
Marcus Carr
Trey McGowens
Xavier Johnson

Wings
Clyde Vaughan
Demetrius Gore
Rod Brookin
Darelle Porter
Orlando Antigua
Jarrett Lockhart
Chad Varga
Ricky Greer
Jaron Brown
Mike Cook
Sam Young
Gilbert Brown
Nasir Robinson
Cameron Wright
Lamar Patterson
Jamel Artis
Cameron Johnson
Jared Wilson Frame

Bigs
Charles Smith
Jerome Lane
Brian Shorter
Bobby Martin
Chris McNeal
Eric Mobley
Darin Morningstar
Chris Gant
Jaime Peterson
Mark Blount
Issac Hawkins
Chris Seabrooks
Donatas Zavackas
Ontario Lett
Chevy Troutman
Chris Taft
Levon Kendall
Aaron Gray
DeJuan Blair
Gary McGhee
Talib Zanna
Steven Adams
Mike Young
Click to expand...

1st team

Vonteego
Matthews
Vaughn
Smith
Blair

2nd Team

Knight
Page
Sam Young
Lane
Gray

Extras

Shorter
Greer
Wannamaker

This was tougher than I thought. And when I first read this I thought what others said - can’t have Adams. As much as I liked him and would have liked to see what he could have done wasn’t enough to be on my list.

Toughest to leave out for me - Krauser and Levance.
 
King Of All Message Boards said:
1st team

Vonteego
Matthews
Vaughn
Smith
Blair

2nd Team

Knight
Page
Sam Young
Lane
Gray

Extras

Shorter
Greer
Wannamaker

This was tougher than I thought. And when I first read this I thought what others said - can’t have Adams. As much as I liked him and would have liked to see what he could have done wasn’t enough to be on my list.

Toughest to leave out for me - Krauser and Levance.
Click to expand...


One change I would is this, I slide Matthews out, Knight in his place and get Shorter in there with the second team.

I'm not sure I would have Matthews in there over Levance or Carl.
 
DT_PITT said:
Yes … yet another “Nostalgia Thread.”

This one was inspired by the introduction of the Panther Hoops Alumni Introduced at halftime tonight. Just like could be found in some of our past nostalgia threads, the introductions did indeed introduce Rich Carrigan and Herb Lake.

But there were some Panther greats there as well.

So I’d like my fellow Panther Lair posters to join me in selecting an “All Star Pitt Roster” from the Big East and ACC Eras.

The endgame with this thread is to determine what the PantherLair thinks is the BEST 13 man roster of Pitt All Star players beginning with the 1982-1983 season.

Here’s the rules …

1) From the list below (choosing anyone not on the lost really isn't legit) ... name your starting five. Your starting five doesn't need to stick to a "strict" 1-2-3-4-5 position format. For example, feel free to start three guards if you wish. Or a twin tower, two center look. Basically pick an actual starting five that you might start if you were the coach. I will award 5 points for everyone on your starting five.

2) Name your "second five" using the same rules as in point one. I will award 3 points for everyone on your second five.

3) Name three more players to fill out the final three scholarships on your roster. These last three don't have to follow any particular positions. Just three more players you'd want on your team if you were coach. Each of these three will get 1 point.

I will add up any entries and their points in about a week or so.

Points/Guards
George Allen
Curtis Aiken
Sean Miller
Jason Matthews
Jerry McCollough
Jason Maile
Andre Aldridge
Vonteego Cummings
Julius Page
Brandin Knight
Carl Krauser
Ron Ramon
Levance Fields
Jermaine Dixon
Ashton Gibbs
Brad Wanamaker
Tray Woodall
James Robinson
Marcus Carr
Trey McGowens
Xavier Johnson

Wings
Clyde Vaughan
Demetrius Gore
Rod Brookin
Darelle Porter
Orlando Antigua
Jarrett Lockhart
Chad Varga
Ricky Greer
Jaron Brown
Mike Cook
Sam Young
Gilbert Brown
Nasir Robinson
Cameron Wright
Lamar Patterson
Jamel Artis
Cameron Johnson
Jared Wilson Frame

Bigs
Charles Smith
Jerome Lane
Brian Shorter
Bobby Martin
Chris McNeal
Eric Mobley
Darin Morningstar
Chris Gant
Jaime Peterson
Mark Blount
Issac Hawkins
Chris Seabrooks
Donatas Zavackas
Ontario Lett
Chevy Troutman
Chris Taft
Levon Kendall
Aaron Gray
DeJuan Blair
Gary McGhee
Talib Zanna
Steven Adams
Mike Young
Click to expand...


1 Brandin Knight. -Assists, Clutch shooting, leadership
2. Jason Matthews - best shooter since that OTHER Knight guy
3. Clyde Vaughn - tough choice between Clyde and Jerome - I went offense 1st
4. Troutman -needed toughness beside my skilled center
5. Charles Smith - oozes talent.

6. Krauser -indomitable, leadership, toughness
7. Wanamaker - do it all combo. Still underrated.
8. Sam Young - could do anything he wanted, when he wanted to.
9. Brian Shorter- could score in the low post against ANYONE when healthy
10. Eric Mobley - tough choice vs Gray or Gary McGhee. People forget he was a 1st rd draft choice. Very physical.

11. Lamar Patterson. Capable of helping at 3 positions, and drains the treys
12. DeJuan Blair- just a rock down low. Amazing offensive rebounder
13. Steve Adams - I know the rules said based on his play at Pitt, but he could shut off a whole side of the court. Raised our defensive rating almost 100 points by himself.

Obviously, I valued toughness, maybe even over-valued it. Hard to leave out Jaron, Levance, Lane, Vonteego, Greer, Darrelle Porter. and the big uglies, Aaron and Gary. And X may be high on this list in a few seasons, but not in half a league season.

I see a need for quick, skilled wings. But, that's reality. Maybe if we'd been allowed to include Billy Knight and Larry Harris. Or if Cam Johnson had rained treys here instead of Chapel Hill the last 2 seasons.
 
PittAU said:
One change I would is this, I slide Matthews out, Knight in his place and get Shorter in there with the second team.

I'm not sure I would have Matthews in there over Levance or Carl.
Click to expand...

Too good of a shoooter to leave out for me. But I wouldn’t argue too hard. And I guess that’s why stuff like this can be fun/interesting. I still can’t believe Souf left off Blair. I think he should be unanimous along with a few others. Haven’t checked everyone’s list to see if he’s alone.

Was also hard to leave Lamar out. Wouldn’t be hard to convince me to put him in and remove someone.
 
PittAU said:
I was just looking and the Willard years were nuts. In 94-95 we had five guys average double figure scoring, and finished 10-18 & 5-13.

In 96-97, as a sophomore Cummings averaged 16.3 & 4.2 assists. As a junior 19.5 & 5.9, and 16.1 & 4.3 his senior year. Those three years we went 5-13, 6-12, & 5-13 in Big East games.

Ouch.
Click to expand...
That is why I don't have Cummingd on my team.
 
Vonteego: G/GS: 103/97 ppg: 15.3 rpg: 4.0 apg: 4.4 FG%: 42.3 FG3%: 33.4 FT%: 69.9 Steals/spg: 235/2.28 W/L: 53-64/26-46

Brandon: G/GS: 127/94 ppg: 11.3 rpg: 3.9 apg: 6.2 FG%: 39.9 FG3%: 32.0 FT%: 53.7 Steals/spg: 295/2.32 W/L: 89-40/38-26

Carl: G/GS: 126/95 ppg: 13.0 rpg: 4.2 apg: 4.5 FG%: 41.0 FG3%: 36.8 FT%: 75.0 Steals: 190 W/L: 104-27/46-18
 
Last edited:
I find it interesting that of the players eligible for voting here Cummings has the 4th highest points per game average.

Shorter, Vaughan, Smith, Cummings and then a tie between Greer and Matthews.
 
Pitt's Big East record in the first two seasons with Charles Smith was 14-18. That doesn't mean Smith was not one of our best players. The first two seasons for Brandon the Big East record was 12-20.
 
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