Pirates attendance ranks only ahead of

[Conemaugh]

Technically, the ‘Guardians’ nickname has some history since it pays homage to the Hope Memorial Bridge that’s right across Progressive Field. Had they used those ‘Guardians of Traffic’ as inspiration for a logo, like the below pictures, it would’ve been much better.

Yes, I understand the technical truth that there is some history in the name associated with the bridge. Cleveland also has way more history with steam, or steam ships..... and likely Cleveland Steamers too 😉

If they wanted a historical name, Cleveland Steamers would have been the way to go. Cleveland Kerosene would have been a good one too.

 

[jtownknowitall]

Thinking back to a playoff game several years ago, the Cleveland Dung Midges.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Not giving it a break. German teams can't call sports teams the Frankfurt Jews. Besides the genocide, it is just stupid to name a team after an ethnic group. Yea, I know, the Fighting Irish. If Ireland truly cared, then I'd say rename it. It's just dumb to name a team the New York Puerto Ricans or the Atlanta Greeks. Or the Nashville Frenchmen. Stupid, stupid, stupid
Pick an animal and go with that.

Stupid

 

[PittPharm2002]

Personally, I think the new name is cool but could’ve been much better. Should’ve learned into the ‘Guardian’ identity more, like having an actual mascot instead of using a flying baseball. Obviously, Cleveland fans would’ve been against it either way, but still.

Happy Endings as a team name seems to get more support in that fanbase

 

[Dan1911]

The Penguins And Steelers are elite in that small little market. Blame the owner for their (Pirates) failures.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Technically, the ‘Guardians’ nickname has some history since it pays homage to the Hope Memorial Bridge that’s right across Progressive Field. Had they used those ‘Guardians of Traffic’ as inspiration for a logo, like the below pictures, it would’ve been much better.

It still sounds like a terrible name even if they changed the logo ... could have just called them the Cleveland Power of Attorney.

 

[YourPittDanceTeam]

I think more people need to hear about O’Neill Cruz’s exit velocity. Then they’d surely not have attendance similar to college soccer games.

So tired of hearing about the "analytics" of everything that O'Neil Cruz does. I know the announcers are just doing their job but OH MY GOD, please STOP!!!
Cruz is not Superman. He is just another young talent, that I am very sure the Pirates organization will screw up and then trade away. He will then go out and become an All-Star with his new team.
Please Mark Cuban, make an offer to buy the team away from that jagoff, bob nutting.

 

[PittPharm2002]

So tired of hearing about the "analytics" of everything that O'Neil Cruz does. I know the announcers are just doing their job but OH MY GOD, please STOP!!!
Cruz is not Superman. He is just another young talent, that I am very sure the Pirates organization will screw up and then trade away. He will then go out and become an All-Star with his new team.
Please Mark Cuban, make an offer to buy the team away from that jagoff, bob nutting.

Well he is a very unique player
It’s better than having nobody interesting or talented on the team , right ?

 

[YourPittDanceTeam]

Well he is a very unique player
It’s better than having nobody interesting or talented on the team , right ?

I agree that he is a very unique player. But to constantly get excited about everything little the guy does is foolish. The Pirates have had some very talented young superstars on their team before and their coaches either screw them up, trade them away or both.
In Cruz's situation, they will force him to play in the outfield because of his size. They will then take him to arbitration and tell him he sucks. He will then become frustrated with the Pirates organization, be traded away and become one of the best Shortstops in the history of MLB.

 

[PittPharm2002]

I agree that he is a very unique player. But to constantly get excited about everything little the guy does is foolish. The Pirates have had some very talented young superstars on their team before and their coaches either screw them up, trade them away or both.
In Cruz's situation, they will force him to play in the outfield because of his size. They will then take him to arbitration and tell him he sucks. He will then become frustrated with the Pirates organization, be traded away and become one of the best Shortstops in the history of MLB.

So ignore the commentary

 

[pierre93]

I agree that he is a very unique player. But to constantly get excited about everything little the guy does is foolish. The Pirates have had some very talented young superstars on their team before and their coaches either screw them up, trade them away or both.
In Cruz's situation, they will force him to play in the outfield because of his size. They will then take him to arbitration and tell him he sucks. He will then become frustrated with the Pirates organization, be traded away and become one of the best Shortstops in the history of MLB.

Just consider the source for all the slobbering over him. Nutting and his pro wvcc agenda can shove it.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The Penguins And Steelers are elite in that small little market. Blame the owner for their (Pirates) failures.

Well certainly the owner deserves the lion's share of the blame. But the Penguins and the Steelers both operate in leagues that value competitive balance, and do things all the way through the league to support that, whereas the Pirates are in a league that doesn't give a crap about competitive balance and is perfectly content to have a system whereby the Yankess and the Dodgers are good almost every season (unless their front office massively fails) and teams like the Pirates and the As and the Royals have to work much harder and much better to even have much more limited potential.

If the NFL operated under a similar economic system that MLB does the Steelers would be like the Pirates, in that their chance to compete would be entirely predicated on superior drafting and developing of players and getting a bunch of really good, young players on their first contracts all at the same time.

Thankfully, that is not the case.

 

[Pitt79]

Spiders is great because you could have made them scary, cute, etc... Lots of ways to go with that. And it would have been specific while still being unique. Guardians is vague and stupid.

You could make a spider logo on the frond of the hat that could be really cool, think Richmond Spiders football team.

 

[Pitt79]

The reboots both really SUCK BIG TIME, the names they chose where crap, Guardians? Commanders? Horrible names and logos. I like Chief Wahoo of course, the huge teeth make it something I would laugh about

 

[YourPittDanceTeam]

So ignore the commentary

I try, but it is on everything the guy does...EVERYTHING!!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Well certainly the owner deserves the lion's share of the blame. But the Penguins and the Steelers both operate in leagues that value competitive balance, and do things all the way through the league to support that, whereas the Pirates are in a league that doesn't give a crap about competitive balance and is perfectly content to have a system whereby the Yankess and the Dodgers are good almost every season (unless their front office massively fails) and teams like the Pirates and the As and the Royals have to work much harder and much better to even have much more limited potential.

If the NFL operated under a similar economic system that MLB does the Steelers would be like the Pirates, in that their chance to compete would be entirely predicated on superior drafting and developing of players and getting a bunch of really good, young players on their first contracts all at the same time.

Thankfully, that is not the case.

Yes. But also the difference is, the ownership of the Steelers and Penguins are in it to win it, not maximize the balance sheet as usually both teams are at the top of the salary cap. If MLB was capped, I am guessing Nutting's Pirates would still be in the bottom quartile of payroll.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Yes. But also the difference is, the ownership of the Steelers and Penguins are in it to win it, not maximize the balance sheet as usually both teams are at the top of the salary cap. If MLB was capped, I am guessing Nutting's Pirates would still be in the bottom quartile of payroll.

Well sure. Which is why I said "certainly the owner deserves the lion's share of the blame."

 

[upj87]

the 3 worst baseball towns in America (Oakland, TB, Miami) and surprisingly, Cleveland. Man, I hope they leave town.

I hope they leave town. Why? I thought you were a pro Pittsburgh type... Would the city losing a 125 plus year major league team somehow bring you joy?

 

[President Stache]

the 3 worst baseball towns in America (Oakland, TB, Miami) and surprisingly, Cleveland. Man, I hope they leave town.

Yeah, pretty dumb post. You dont like baseball, so screw em right?

Many in Pittsburgh love baseball. The Pirates can barely qualify as playing baseball. I think most every fan sees the issue is Nutting, not the fans of Pittsburgh. Its a minor league team, plain and simple. Fun, great stadium, lots of activities for kids, but the team tries to always sell ä rebuild, but the fans know you are always rebuilding because guys will never be resigned ever.

 

[Pitt79]

Yeah, pretty dumb post. You dont like baseball, so screw em right?

Many in Pittsburgh love baseball. The Pirates can barely qualify as playing baseball. I think most every fan sees the issue is Nutting, not the fans of Pittsburgh. Its a minor league team, plain and simple. Fun, great stadium, lots of activities for kids, but the team tries to always sell ä rebuild, but the fans know you are always rebuilding because guys will never be resigned ever.

I personally hate baseball, never watch, don't care. But I love Pittsburgh and the Pirates leaving town would hurt me, kill my memories of childhood when it was the Clemente/Stargell Pirates and I didn't hate baseball.

 

[President Stache]

I personally hate baseball, never watch, don't care. But I love Pittsburgh and the Pirates leaving town would hurt me, kill my memories of childhood when it was the Clemente/Stargell Pirates and I didn't hate baseball.

Well, ok... I mean, I hate ballet, but think there should be a pittsburgh ballet company. I think no matter what the company is, if it is poorly run, then people wont buy the product. The Pirates need to be better run, and if they wont, then MLB has to make some effort to force teams to be competitive

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I personally hate baseball, never watch, don't care. But I love Pittsburgh and the Pirates leaving town would hurt me, kill my memories of childhood when it was the Clemente/Stargell Pirates and I didn't hate baseball.

You have never mentioned this before. I am truly kind of shocked. For as much as you love to participate in baseball threads, I thought you were a big fan.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

It's really hard to rip on the Pirates fanbase. Haven't won a playoff series since 1979. Dan Marino was a FR at Pitt that year. Think about that. Aside from that 3 year Wild Card blip (which the 2nd WC really killed them, when there was only one, they at least would have played a post season series) so...they have 3 post season wins in 30 years. That's games. An entire generation essentially lost, almost 2 generations.

The sport overall is losing appeal and the caretakers (owners, players and agents) could care less.

 

[Pitt79]

You have never mentioned this before. I am truly kind of shocked. For as much as you love to participate in baseball threads, I thought you were a big fan.

I hate that sport so much I love to brag about hating it

 

[Fk_Pitt]

 

[Fk_Pitt]

How pathetic things are in Pittsburgh.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

On the front page of this forum, if you look at the thread title, it reads

“Pirate Attendance ranks only ahead of Sean Miller Fan”.

yep. That pretty much sums up SMF here.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

“Exit velocity” is something similar to things like uniform colors and logos and at what point they’ll play Sweet Caroline … things that a loser team (or it’s marketing dept more accurately) tries to use to distract from constant losing

 

[pittdan77]

“Exit velocity” is something similar to things like uniform colors and logos and at what point they’ll play Sweet Caroline … things that a loser team (or it’s marketing dept more accurately) tries to use to distract from constant losing

Pirates have gotten more mileage out of fireworks than any pro sports franchise, ever.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

“Exit velocity” is something similar to things like uniform colors and logos and at what point they’ll play Sweet Caroline … things that a loser team (or it’s marketing dept more accurately) tries to use to distract from constant losing

Are you comparing Pitt over the last decade to the Pirates? Pitt made changes that the fans wanted, they weren't trying to distract (given we were mediocre at the time, not losing). Each was an improvement where the Pirates seem to be rearranging deck chairs on a sinking ship every time they do something.

Agree on Sweet Caroline though. Bring back the original fight song with all of the words to replace it.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

How pathetic things are in Pittsburgh.

View embedded media

Actually the goal is to hit the ball hard. I mean how dumb would someone have to be to think that hitting the ball harder isn't an advantage? Cruz's problem isn't that he hits the ball too hard, it's that he doesn't hit the ball often enough.

So far this season if you look at all the at bats by exit velocity, at every mph increment from 102 on up to Cruz's 122 the batting average on those ball is over .500. In other words, on balls hit with a 102 exit velocity batters are hitting .509. At 103 it's .543. At 104 it's .576. And so on.

On the other end of the spectrum, counting only speeds that at least 50 balls have been put in play at (42 mph is at the bottom of that list), hitters are hitting under .200 at every increment but one up to 64 mph. And they are under .300 at every increment up to 97.

The notion that a baseball player's goal isn't to hit the ball hard is simply batshit crazy.

 

[upj87]

Actually the goal is to hit the ball hard. I mean how dumb would someone have to be to think that hitting the ball harder isn't an advantage? Cruz's problem isn't that he hits the ball too hard, it's that he doesn't hit the ball often enough.

So far this season if you look at all the at bats by exit velocity, at every mph increment from 102 on up to Cruz's 122 the batting average on those ball is over .500. In other words, on balls hit with a 102 exit velocity batters are hitting .509. At 103 it's .543. At 104 it's .576. And so on.

On the other end of the spectrum, counting only speeds that at least 50 balls have been put in play at (42 mph is at the bottom of that list), hitters are hitting under .200 at every increment but one up to 64 mph. And they are under .300 at every increment up to 97.

The notion that a baseball player's goal isn't to hit the ball hard is simply batshit crazy.

everybody hits the ball hard...a few miles per hour faster probably makes little difference other than having a talking point about some overrated chump batting .198...I have no idea of what Ted Williams' "exit velocity" was but I'd guess it to be in the middle of this meaningless metiric.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Pirates have gotten more mileage out of fireworks than any pro sports franchise, ever.

Heck, they have probably gotten more mileage out of fireworks than the USA independence day.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Heck, they have probably gotten more mileage out of fireworks than the USA independence day.

Advantage of Zambelli being in New Castle

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

everybody hits the ball hard...a few miles per hour faster probably makes little difference other than having a talking point about some overrated chump batting .198...I have no idea of what Ted Williams' "exit velocity" was but I'd guess it to be in the middle of this meaningless metiric.

Given the number of home runs and doubles that Williams hit, the notion that his exit velocity would be in the middle of this metric is just as dumb as thinking that hitting the ball harder is meaningless.

I mean you can't really be dumb enough to think that hitting the ball harder isn't better than hitting the ball weaker, can you?

And I told you what the differences in a few miles per hour mean. But here, I'll give you some actual players to compare, and then you can decide if hitting the ball a few miles per hour harder is better. Aaron Judge's average exit velocity is around 95 mph. He's right at the top of the list. Oddly enough, he's a really good hitter. To use some guys we know, Brain Reynolds is averaging around 90 mph this year. Reynolds is pretty good, but he's not really having a very good season. And he's certainly no Aaron Judge. Kevin Newman is averaging right around 85 mph. And no one has ever confused Kevin Newman with a good hitter. It would be laughable to even compare him to Judge as a hitter. And if you want to go down to the bottom of the list, of all the people who have put at least 100 balls in play so far this season, Tyler Heineman is next to last on the list at 82.5. And quite frankly, as a hitter he sucks. Which is exactly what one should expect from someone who doesn't hit the ball hard.

Seriously, you think hitting the ball harder is meaningless?

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Are you comparing Pitt over the last decade to the Pirates? Pitt made changes that the fans wanted, they weren't trying to distract (given we were mediocre at the time, not losing). Each was an improvement where the Pirates seem to be rearranging deck chairs on a sinking ship every time they do something.

Agree on Sweet Caroline though. Bring back the original fight song with all of the words to replace it.

Not so much recently, but far too often a change in logo and color were touted as reasons to pay attention, in lieu of a team that was actually worth the time. But you are right, these are apples to pears (if not exactly oranges) examples, maybe a more apt one would be when our media director might float stats that we had the “fifth highest red zone conversion percentage” or “top ten in 2nd down run defense” or such, yet we won 5 frugging games. It’s fine to have such measurements and report on them, but they need to be taken in context with team success (or lack thereof).

 

[rmf05]

I already pre-ordered my 2022 Pirates highlight DVD.

The 2022 Pittsburgh Pirates: Sucking At High Velocity

 

[pbrad]

Greg Brown must be a closet Pantherlair reader. I turned the game on for five minutes last night and he was insanely defensive about getting made fun of for touting Cruz's exit velocity while his average is so low.

Greg Brown is hard to listen to. Saying how exciting a .190 hitter is and acting like a 2 game win streak puts them on the path to the playoffs.

 

[Conemaugh]

It's really hard to rip on the Pirates fanbase. Haven't won a playoff series since 1979. Dan Marino was a FR at Pitt that year. Think about that. Aside from that 3 year Wild Card blip (which the 2nd WC really killed them, when there was only one, they at least would have played a post season series) so...they have 3 post season wins in 30 years. That's games. An entire generation essentially lost, almost 2 generations.

The sport overall is losing appeal and the caretakers (owners, players and agents) could care less.

Major league baseball is a big city game (St. Louis as the exception). Unlike the NFL, the players are mostly coming from places not in any way associated with MLB cities. They are coming from southern exburban areas and Latin America..... not the rust belt. I can't think of a single western PA guy playing ball in the majors, but I am sure there are a few. I can think of plenty playing football, and western PA is nowhere like it used to be in that regard either. With that kind of backdrop, is it any wonder why Pittsburgh and other smaller MLB cities are tuning out?

 

[Conemaugh]

Major league baseball is a big city game (St. Louis as the exception). Unlike the NFL, the players are mostly coming from places not in any way associated with MLB cities. They are coming from southern exburban areas and Latin America..... not the rust belt. I can't think of a single western PA guy playing ball in the majors, but I am sure there are a few. I can think of plenty playing football, and western PA is nowhere like it used to be in that regard either. With that kind of backdrop, is it any wonder why Pittsburgh and other smaller MLB cities are tuning out?

Part 2 of this rant. Once I moved out of western PA, the Pirates were never available on TV. I can catch the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, Braves all of the time on TV. MLB/ESPN knows who butters their bread, and it is the big towns.