So, do you think adding a serviceable backup PG is the difference that will get us into a post season tournament next year?
Pitt Update
- Thread starter 9nationalchampionships
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Personally I feel a number of things are necessary to get us into a
post season tourney next year.
- First of all X and Horton are going to have to mesh in the backcourt.
X is a given IMO and if Horton can be effective as the off guard and
hit the outside J, that will definitely make us better. Regardless, we
definitely need another guard. We have Odukale an untested frosh,
so another guard will go a long way in getting us there if X and Horton
are effective. I would prefer a grad transfer combo guard.
- Is that enough?...IMO no because our inside game is a huge question
mark. Toney and Champagnie give us quality as forwards, but we need
a strong inside presence who can rebound, defend, and score. Will
Hugley be the answer? I hope so, because so far Brown is not the
answer, and Amadason seems to be a project.
Not sure I answered your question, but I feel strongly that a
serviceable backup pg is not enough for post season play next year.
I do see us improving, but we have a lot of questions.
IF Horton is as good as advertised; IF we get another legitimate
guard; and IF the inside game improves dramatically then yes
we'll have an outside chance at post season play.
Of course Femi isn't going to play 24 mpg, but neither would a backup point guard. I'd much rather have Trey Murphy, even if he has to sit a year, over a grad transfer 2. A grad transfer 1 shouldn't even be considered, it makes absolutely no sense given the limitations I outlined in my previous post.
That seems to be the issue. If a transfer doesn't get us over that hurdle, we might as well forget the short term need and instead continue to build for the longer term.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that we should expect or will be able to get an elite PG for depth — just an N’Dir level player. And I don’t think that’s unreasonable
In fairness, we got the N’Dir level player largely because Xavier was an incoming freshman and nobody had any idea what the minutes at PG would look like - the starting spot was totally up for grabs. Once it became clear what NDir’s role ended up being behind Xavier, NDir decided to forego his last year and test the professional waters in France.
This thread has gotten ridiculous. It's not a backup pg that we need. It's
another guard, period. Right now we have three guards, X, Horton, and
Femi who is totally unproven at this level. Even if he were a returning
veteran we'd need another guard. Just think back to last year when
Murph was injured.....that's the very point where we went into a
tailspin. Forget the locker room fight and all that nonsense, all teams
go through that stuff. Murph got hurt and we had two legit guards,
Trey and X. Drumgoole couldn't get it done, and the walk on also
got hurt. We had no guard depth.
Despite comments on here to the contrary, I want another guard
brought in, preferably a combo guard who can shoot, and help out
at either guard spot. Horton, another guard, Femi and the walk on
can easily backup X for several minutes a game.We need four guards.
All teams need at least that.
another guard, period. Right now we have three guards, X, Horton, and
Femi who is totally unproven at this level. Even if he were a returning
veteran we'd need another guard. Just think back to last year when
Murph was injured.....that's the very point where we went into a
tailspin. Forget the locker room fight and all that nonsense, all teams
go through that stuff. Murph got hurt and we had two legit guards,
Trey and X. Drumgoole couldn't get it done, and the walk on also
got hurt. We had no guard depth.
Despite comments on here to the contrary, I want another guard
brought in, preferably a combo guard who can shoot, and help out
at either guard spot. Horton, another guard, Femi and the walk on
can easily backup X for several minutes a game.We need four guards.
All teams need at least that.
If you look at last year's stats you will see that XJ got 33.3 minutes/game, McGowens got 33.8 minutes/game and Murphy got 24.5 minutes/game---as an average over the season. So, Gary2 is probably thinking Murphy's minutes is what a backup guard would/should get.
I totally agree - which is why they're going after Murphy to play the 2 guard. It seems clear that there's a certain type of guard that they're going after, which is why they've been connected to guys like Nolley, Alan Griffin, and now Murphy as big shooting guards.
Yes, it's enough to backup X. The problem though is the number of
guards. You need at least four guards at this level (or for that matter,
ANY level). Femi is presently our third guard and he's a question mark
at this point. We need another one.
However what really happened with those 24 minutes/game was they
were when Murph subbed for Trey, OR.... when he came in for X, Trey
took over the pg duties. Murph actually had very few mintes at pg.
I think it's fair to expect, with the current roster and with 80 combined minutes to play with in the backcourt, for Xavier and Horton to be at around 30 minutes per game in conference play, Femi to be at around 10-15 split between the primary backup PG and the second guard (maybe 8-10 at PG and the rest as the 2-guard), and then a combination of Drumgoole and/or Toney playing the 2 in spots for the rest of it. Ezeakudo played 3mpg in conference play, and I'd think that would be about the same. Drumgoole's 9.5 mpg in conference play just isn't good enough for next year, and he needs to be at around 15 split between the 2 and the 3.
Now, if they add Murphy and he's immediately eligible, I think you could be looking at a situation where Xavier plays 30-32 at PG, Femi plays 8-10 as the backup, Horton plays 20-25 at the 2 guard, and Murphy plays the rest at the 2 guard, while also getting minutes at wing as part of the Drumgoole, Toney, Champagnie, Jeffress (?) grouping.
People talk like X is Magic Johnson. He played poorly in the beginning of the season and again in some games late. He had games he was in foul trouble. He had games he had Capel trouble and was benched,
I expect things will be better for him with Trey gone. They were too much the same player. Horton will be a better fit.
But, still...
Somehow Murphy got 24 with X and Trey on the team
X Played poorly early. Trey played poorly at times. Capel benched both. Both were foul prone.
Before the concussion that was what Murphy was averaging. Trey was more established than Horton is for next season.
I am good with a combo guard, if he is a true combo. I don't want someone that does not handle the ball well.
I have been thinking the same way that you have. So it does seem puzzling that Capel and staff don't seem as concerned. Perhaps they believe getting both Murphy and Ezeakudo injured is a little bit of extra bad luck and isn't likely to happen every season.
On a slightly related note--it is a little puzzling, IMHO, that Aiken Jr. hasn't seen more action. I know he was injured as a freshman and played only 6 minutes as a RS Freshman last season; however, even though he is a walk-on, he was once rated a 3-star recruit out of HS. That rating suggests he ought to possess at least enough talent to be a serviceable emergency-only backup. But, maybe he has never fully recovered from injury?. He is a bit of a mystery, IMO.
Xavier's the starting point guard, and he's going to play 30+ minutes per night for as long as he's healthy. It is what it is. You're not going to convince a guy that he's going to be able to come in and start over him, you'll get laughed out of the Zoom call. And the top flight grad transfer point guards - even the lower-level grad transfer PGs like NDir - either want the chance to compete for the starting job at a major conference school, or they want to be a depth piece on a team with deep tournament aspirations. At point guard, Pitt can sell neither.
The season is going to hinge on whether Xavier develops into the player that he has the potential to be, because Pitt is just not going to be able to convince a recruit or a transfer looking for starting minutes at PG that he can beat out Xavier with where the program is right now. It'd be similar logic to the staff trying to recruit a top flight wing grad transfer with a pitch that the transfer can step in and beat out Toney and Champagnie for starting minutes. It's just not going to be a winning pitch.
24 minutes for the third guard. Want that guard to be experienced and able to handle the ball. Don't think Femi ready for that.
Trey left to be a point. Doubt Horton is better at it than Trey. That means more need for what I ask.
I actually just took down a post about Murphy's eligibility because
you explained it very well in your above post. If he's eligible, I'm fine
with the guard make up because we'd have the four I've been
calling for on here.
I mostly agree with your minutes distribution, but we do have issues
and question marks with some of those minutes. Femi is untested
and Drumgoole concerns me. He clearly is no guard, but he can play
a wing as long as we have two guards on the floor. If Murphy comes
here and is eligible, we're in good shape IMO.
I basically agree with that Gary. As far as Horton, I have no idea whether
he's better at pg than Trey. Either way though, if we get a combo guard
we'd be all set becaause he'd be able to play both guard positions. If
Murphy is eligible, we will IMO be set in the backcourt.
Femi?...no dea, but at this point I tend to agree with you. We get Murphy
and he's eligible, Femi can be brought along slowly.
I have no idea about Aiken Jr. The only thing we can go on is he's
being outplayed in practice by Onye. Capel apparently thinks Onye
is better. Also Onye is clearly more of a pg than he is an off guard.
Aiken...pg skills??
As of last night, verbal commits lists 14 grad transfer points I think can help us.
Aiken - Harvard - pre season 1st team (listing that follow all pre season)
Smith - Columbia - 2nd team
Hardy - UNLV - 2nd team
Perry - Louis
Bolden - S.Caro
Gage - DePaul
Mintz - Creighton
Porter - Utah St
Biggs - Hawaii
Ertel - La Monroe - 2nd team
Gomez - Cal Northridge - 1st team
Ross - Ala St - 1st team
Champion - Loyola Md
Thomas - N. Illinois
I have not looked at SGs who could be combos
Brown is the only senior on our team. We need "known" scholarships to give in 2021, not scholarships that "could" open with attrition.
Aiken - Harvard - pre season 1st team (listing that follow all pre season)
Smith - Columbia - 2nd team
Hardy - UNLV - 2nd team
Perry - Louis
Bolden - S.Caro
Gage - DePaul
Mintz - Creighton
Porter - Utah St
Biggs - Hawaii
Ertel - La Monroe - 2nd team
Gomez - Cal Northridge - 1st team
Ross - Ala St - 1st team
Champion - Loyola Md
Thomas - N. Illinois
I have not looked at SGs who could be combos
Brown is the only senior on our team. We need "known" scholarships to give in 2021, not scholarships that "could" open with attrition.
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Ask DT about how many freshmen are able to play immediately. Particularly in the ACC.
Understand. But, isn’t the question that we are talking about total guard (both 1 and 2) backup minutes not just point guard backup minutes in the debate about whether we need a 4th guard? Must that hypothetical 4th guard be capable of playing point guard?
From another perspective, with the influx of more bigs are we really going to have ~92 (1 and 2 position) guard minutes total (as last season) or will we more likely only have about 80 minutes allocated to guards capable of playing both the 1 and the 2 next season? If the latter, maybe we don’t need more than 3, plus Ezeakudo, capable of playing point (true point or combo guard)? Some off guard minutes might be going to wing players who don’t have the ball skills to play any minutes at the point guard spot.
Caveat: Just thinking out loud in trying to understand possible reasons for Capel and staff not seeming to be overly concerned about trying to find a grad transfer guard capable of playing some point guard.
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The vast majority of those guys are either already committed or are looking for opportunities where they can start.
Of that list, the only guys I can think of who don't potentially fit into that category are Ertel, Ross, Champion, and Thomas. Ertel's getting interest from Auburn and Butler, and I can't find much on the rest. And I don't think any of them are better basketball players than Murphy. If Murphy goes to UVA, Villanova, or Houston? Maybe.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be some hesitation about giving Femi more time but let's not forget he will be a older freshman. He did a prep yr so he increased his game and IQ so he'll be alittle further ahead of your standard 3* PG and he has that tough NY swag which may or may not help but I'll take it.
Does it really matter? If he only gets spot minutes, or even if pressed into more minutes, IMHO, it won’t matter as much provided other newcomers are delivering much better (compared to last season) outside shooting.
I am sick of all this talk of positionless basketball. A team of everyone around 6-5 to 6-8. 12 players like that and 1 point. Good luck with that.
I mean. Sure. But there's plenty of evidence at Pitt of freshmen coming in and taking a handful of backup minutes. That's what we need. We aren't asking Femi to come in and start.
I'm asking for an assessment of his game and how that informs your opinion. Something more robust than "freshmen + acc."
Look, I am not claiming to have detailed knowledge of his game.
Like most, I have seen highlights. He is tall for a point guard. That can be problematic with the dribble. He seems a little loose with his dribble as well.
Again - highlight video observation only
Don't get me wrong. I am happy to have him. I think he will be a very good player in his career. I think he can help with defense and toughness immediately. Anything beyond that his freshman year will be a bonus.
I was talking about a coach going after a real talent. He's not just looking to next year.
We probably won't get him anyhow
