Quick thoughts on the D

[Sean Miller Fan]

My thoughts on what I've read and watched this camp:

1. The DT position should be a strength. Everyone is high on Render, Jarrett, Mosley-Smith, and Scarpinato. This position gets talked about a lot, very positively.

2. The DE position is very weak, perhaps as weak as its ever been. This is going to be a really big problem.

3. The LB position isn't as good as it needs to be and there is very limited future upside since we start 2 seniors and a junior. This will be another weakness, but not as bad as the DE's.

4. The CB position may be the biggest surprise. The staff was happy enough with Maddox and Pitts to not even try Whitehead there and this position is also talked about very positively.

5. The safeties are another strength, so much so, that Whitehead probably won't be starting as he hasn't beaten out Amara and/or Jevonte Pitts yet.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

My thoughts on what I've read and watched this camp:

1. The DT position should be a strength. Everyone is high on Render, Jarrett, Mosley-Smith, and Scarpinato. This position gets talked about a lot, very positively.
Agreed

2. The DE position is very weak, perhaps as weak as its ever been. This is going to be a really big problem.
I have not seen Edwards play at this level but if he is solid I feel much better about DE

3. The LB position isn't as good as it needs to be and there is very limited future upside since we start 2 seniors and a junior. This will be another weakness, but not as bad as the DE’s.
Agreed. Lets get some pounds on McKee and Brightwell asap

4. The CB position may be the biggest surprise. The staff was happy enough with Maddox and Pitts to not even try Whitehead there and this position is also talked about very positively.
Agreed

5. The safeties are another strength, so much so, that Whitehead probably won't be starting as he hasn't beaten out Amara and/or Jevonte Pitts yet.

Agreed

 

[VAPITTALUM]

The DEs are a major concern right now. Too many plays were allowed to bounce outside for big gains last year, when the interior was clogged. My hope is that the press coverage and having the LBs and CBs around the LOS will help defend and prevent those plays from going for 10-15 yards. Last year, with the secondary playing 10 yards off of the LOS, the underneath passes and runs to the outside were a guaranteed 10-15 yards every single time.

If you want to relive the Akron or Iowa games from last year, you'll see these plays repeatedly in both. This occurred in other games, but these two were early season killers and really stood out.

 

[Pghfan]

Whitehead will be starting soon enough.. Really worried about our de ends. We basically are relying on an often injured Price and an undersized sophomore who really hasn't done much (and of course is suspended for a game). Loving our interior de linemen though..

 

[thebadby2]

The DEs are a major concern right now. Too many plays were allowed to bounce outside for big gains last year, when the interior was clogged. My hope is that the press coverage and having the LBs and CBs around the LOS will help defend and prevent those plays from going for 10-15 yards. Last year, with the secondary playing 10 yards off of the LOS, the underneath passes and runs to the outside were a guaranteed 10-15 yards every single time.

If you want to relive the Akron or Iowa games from last year, you'll see these plays repeatedly in both. This occurred in other games, but these two were early season killers and really stood out.

My hope is that the press coverage and having the LBs and CBs around the LOS will help defend and prevent those plays from going for 10-15 yards.

That's exactly what Narduzzi's scheme is deigned to do. The base package is designed to stop the run first and foremost and the CBs have contain at the LOS, the strong safety is like a 4th LB playing downhill. Outside contain is not so dependent on the DEs. I think we'll see a lot of improvement there. We will take some lumps as we get acclimated to Duzzi Ball but i think we'll look like a more stout, legit D immediately.

Good post. You;re absolutely correct about the Akron and Iowa games last year, the FSU game the prior year was the worst example of that I've ever seen. Just perplexing how House kept the corners soft and the safeties in 2 deep halves even when we were getting killed because of that.

 

[thebadby2]

My thoughts on what I've read and watched this camp:

1. The DT position should be a strength. Everyone is high on Render, Jarrett, Mosley-Smith, and Scarpinato. This position gets talked about a lot, very positively.

2. The DE position is very weak, perhaps as weak as its ever been. This is going to be a really big problem.

3. The LB position isn't as good as it needs to be and there is very limited future upside since we start 2 seniors and a junior. This will be another weakness, but not as bad as the DE's.

4. The CB position may be the biggest surprise. The staff was happy enough with Maddox and Pitts to not even try Whitehead there and this position is also talked about very positively.

5. The safeties are another strength, so much so, that Whitehead probably won't be starting as he hasn't beaten out Amara and/or Jevonte Pitts yet.

 

[thebadby2]

Agree with your post. Also, it;s worth noting that Lair posters last year were constantly bitching about our interior DLs as not getting pressure on the QB, how we lacked talent there, etc. The posters saw it as a team weakness. Meanwhile Conklin and Narduzzi see this same group as giving them plenty to work with, and being the strength of the defense. The talent and size are there. It's all about how they're used.

DE is a concern but i think Price will be just fine if he can stay healthy. Someone will emerge on the other side. The scheme and coaching will result in better play from the DEs no matter who they are. Blair and Folston are about the same size as Marcus Rush, who started 4 years for Narduzzi at MSU and was outstanding.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Adding (hopefully) Price with Edwards maybe keeps DE out of disaster mode.
Still worried about the whole unit.

 

[MajorMajors]

My thoughts on what I've read and watched this camp:

1. The DT position should be a strength. Everyone is high on Render, Jarrett, Mosley-Smith, and Scarpinato. This position gets talked about a lot, very positively.

2. The DE position is very weak, perhaps as weak as its ever been. This is going to be a really big problem.

3. The LB position isn't as good as it needs to be and there is very limited future upside since we start 2 seniors and a junior. This will be another weakness, but not as bad as the DE's.

4. The CB position may be the biggest surprise. The staff was happy enough with Maddox and Pitts to not even try Whitehead there and this position is also talked about very positively.

5. The safeties are another strength, so much so, that Whitehead probably won't be starting as he hasn't beaten out Amara and/or Jevonte Pitts yet.

Only disagreement is that there is some "upside" to the younger LBs - freshmen Saleem Brightwell and Anthony McKee as well as redshirt FR Jamal Davis and Soph Quintin Wirginis all sound promising...

DE has been the weakest position on the team for several seasons now. Haven't been able to recruit that position since Wanny left.

Go Pitt.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The DEs are a major concern right now. Too many plays were allowed to bounce outside for big gains last year, when the interior was clogged. My hope is that the press coverage and having the LBs and CBs around the LOS will help defend and prevent those plays from going for 10-15 yards. Last year, with the secondary playing 10 yards off of the LOS, the underneath passes and runs to the outside were a guaranteed 10-15 yards every single time.

If you want to relive the Akron or Iowa games from last year, you'll see these plays repeatedly in both. This occurred in other games, but these two were early season killers and really stood out.

I've heard Narduzzi's D described as "9 in the box." Inotherwords, everyone is near the line of scrimmage and the 2 CB's are on the island of all islands. Seems like they'll stop the run at all costs but will give up a lot of big plays in the passing game. That MSU fan that comes over here even said his D does give up big passing plays........but those are the highest risk to convert for an offense.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Narduzzi also said defensive end is still unsettled, and pointed to redshirt sophomore Zach Poker as a player who improved his standing this month.
@swerner

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Narduzzi also said defensive end is still unsettled, and pointed to redshirt sophomore Zach Poker as a player who improved his standing this month.
@swerner

I wonder if Brian O'Neill would make a good DE. Also, if we have confidence in our guys behind Conner, I wouldnt mind Conner playing 5 snaps a game there in certain situations.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

I've heard Narduzzi's D described as "9 in the box." Inotherwords, everyone is near the line of scrimmage and the 2 CB's are on the island of all islands. Seems like they'll stop the run at all costs but will give up a lot of big plays in the passing game. That MSU fan that comes over here even said his D does give up big passing plays........but those are the highest risk to convert for an offense.

Good post. The same MSU fan said that QBs who were extremely mobile and had a strong, accurate arm gave the defense some issues (as they would any defense). Fortunately, there are not too many Mariota's, Petty's, and Barrett's on PITT's schedule this year. An early test could be from former PITT player Travon Chapman, who is now at Akron.

 

[thebadby2]

I wonder if Brian O'Neill would make a good DE. Also, if we have confidence in our guys behind Conner, I wouldnt mind Conner playing 5 snaps a game there in certain situations.

He's an offensive tackle now and that will be a permanent move.

I think we may prove to be better of at DE than most seem to think--as long as Price stays healthy. He's a tough, solid, smart football player.

 

[thebadby2]

I've heard Narduzzi's D described as "9 in the box." Inotherwords, everyone is near the line of scrimmage and the 2 CB's are on the island of all islands. Seems like they'll stop the run at all costs but will give up a lot of big plays in the passing game. That MSU fan that comes over here even said his D does give up big passing plays........but those are the highest risk to convert for an offense.

His base D is a 4-3 with quarters coverage, effectively 9 in the box. When MSU had Dennard and Waeyns at the corners, they very rarely gave up any big vertical plays despite being stacked to stop the run. Last season, with Dennard gone and the much weaker Darian Hicks at field corner opposite Waeyns, they got burned more than they had in a few years--especially by OSU and Baylor, who just picked on Hicks relentlessly and stayed away from Waeyns. Hicks was the weak link to the entire MSU defense last season, so much so that star WR Tony Lippett replaced him at CB in the second half of a couple of games--and was MUCH more effective. Will be interesting to see what MSU does this year at the CB positions. As for us, I think Pitts will thrive in the quarters coverage scheme, I'm a bit more worried about Maddox--CB is a physical job in Duzzi's D.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

Whitehead will be starting soon enough.. Really worried about our de ends. We basically are relying on an often injured Price and an undersized sophomore who really hasn't done much (and of course is suspended for a game). Loving our interior de linemen though..

It's understandable that many do not feel confident about our DEs after last season's performance. It's not like the days when we had Sheard and Romeus returning on the two ends, but I think this group might prove to be a pleasant surprise under the tutalage of Narduzzi and Co.

Price would have been incredible as a OLB. But I think we all get why they chose to beef him up and move him to DE. For sometime now, Pitt's has struggled to find DEs who can coming off the edge with speed and get into the backfield quickly. Price has shown great quickness and even lateral speed. Blair was the one, somewhat bright spot and should be better. Edwards (the transfer) while undersized, has very good speed too. Narduzzi seems to think Folston has the tools to be good their too.

At a minimum, I believe we can expect improvement over the performance form last year's DEs.

Actually, I feel a bad for the players when I see some (even CP) being so harsh with their assessment of this year's DEs. I mean, yes, it seems fair to state that last season's group was not that effective as a group. It isn't necessarily fair to declare this year's DE unit is going to be terrible, before the season even starts. We just don't know. I prefer to believe Narduzzi has guys best suited to make a difference and will coach them up to be a bit better than the current perception.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

Actually, I feel a bad for the players when I see some (even CP) being so harsh with their assessment of this year's DEs. I mean, yes, it seems fair to state that last season's group was not that effective as a group. It isn't necessarily fair to declare this year's DE unit is going to be terrible, before the season even starts. We just don't know. I prefer to believe Narduzzi has guys best suited to make a difference and will coach them up to be a bit better than the current perception.

I understand what you're saying, but there really is no reason to feel that the DEs will be much better this year, unless proven otherwise. Last year they were pushed off of the LOS, beaten to the edge by any reasonably talented RB, couldn't keep contain even against teams like Akron, etc. Having the CBs playing up on the LOS should help, as stated earlier in this thread, but they still need to be able to seal off the edge.

I really hope the DEs prove us all wrong and come out ready to rock; but I need to take a wait and see approach with that group.

 

[MajorMajors]

I understand what you're saying, but there really is no reason to feel that the DEs will be much better this year, unless proven otherwise. Last year they were pushed off of the LOS, beaten to the edge by any reasonably talented RB, couldn't keep contain even against teams like Akron, etc. Having the CBs playing up on the LOS should help, as stated earlier in this thread, but they still need to be able to seal off the edge.

I really hope the DEs prove us all wrong and come out ready to rock; but I need to take a wait and see approach with that group.

Agree. Price and the Juco guy are pretty much unknowns - so I guess we can at least hope for something out of them.

Blair showed some potential. He should be better this year if he got stronger.

Soto just didn't seem to have any quickness to him and his bull-rush was completely ineffective. Maybe he gets better with experience, but I just don't see the quickness you'd like to see.

Jerry D's article was the first mention I've seen of Poker... Here's a link:

Link to "Pitt Locker Room"

Go Pitt.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

I understand what you're saying, but there really is no reason to feel that the DEs will be much better this year, unless proven otherwise. Last year they were pushed off of the LOS, beaten to the edge by any reasonably talented RB, couldn't keep contain even against teams like Akron, etc. Having the CBs playing up on the LOS should help, as stated earlier in this thread, but they still need to be able to seal off the edge.

I really hope the DEs prove us all wrong and come out ready to rock; but I need to take a wait and see approach with that group.

I think having a "wait and see" approach is quite fair, but some fans and some in the media have already come to the conclusion that the DEs will be just awful before a game has even been played (which isn't exactly fair to these players).

Again, I get (and am in agreement) that the DEs- as a group -didn't come through too often last year, but then the current unit is not made up of exactly the same players and it is not being coached by the same coaches.

There seems no reason for us to declare this unit or any other unit a bust. Let's give them a chance. Let's give every unit a chance and hold off on making any declaration until the end of the season.

If the Pitt DE position were a stock, I'd buy as many shares as I could. After several years of decline (and now with better leadership), there's no place for it to go but up!

 

[vinniep33]

I've heard Narduzzi's D described as "9 in the box." Inotherwords, everyone is near the line of scrimmage and the 2 CB's are on the island of all islands. Seems like they'll stop the run at all costs but will give up a lot of big plays in the passing game. That MSU fan that comes over here even said his D does give up big passing plays........but those are the highest risk to convert for an offense.

Better than death by 1000 cuts.

 

[NTOP]

Better than death by 1000 cuts.

Totally agree. College coaches need to be fined if they play prevent defense. Bring it on both sides of the ball for 60 minutes.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

agree, better than the back to bataan death march philosophy.....

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Better than death by 1000 cuts.

I agree also but keep in mind that Narduzzi's D excelled in the run-happy where boring offenses still rule the day. It was a perfect D for that league. They stopped the run and nobody could throw it well enough to beat them.

The ACC has a few more spread offenses but also the Triple Option with GT. Its impossible to say how Narduzzi's D would have stood up to the Big 12 or Pac 12's BBall on Turf offenses. Baylor lit them up last year as did Oregon in the 2nd half. Those are 2 elite teams, however.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Good points, here's hoping it does well enough to beat the akrons, etc, etc of the world.

 

[thebadby2]

I agree also but keep in mind that Narduzzi's D excelled in the run-happy where boring offenses still rule the day. It was a perfect D for that league. They stopped the run and nobody could throw it well enough to beat them.

The ACC has a few more spread offenses but also the Triple Option with GT. Its impossible to say how Narduzzi's D would have stood up to the Big 12 or Pac 12's BBall on Turf offenses. Baylor lit them up last year as did Oregon in the 2nd half. Those are 2 elite teams, however.

Seems like some of you guys haven't watched college football outside of your own team/.league in the past 20 years. You;re working on an old stereotype of the B10. With a couple of notable glitches like the Baylor and OSU games last year (with both opponents repeatedly exploiting MSU CB Darian HIcks, the piss-poor replacement for Dennard), Narduzzi's D has excelled against just about every opponent no matter what type of offense that opponent is running. Let's not forget MSU beat undefeated OSU and Braxton Miller in 2013 and held them far below their season averages in yards and points. The two teams they lost to last year played each other for the national championship. And even though Baylor threw for 500 yards, MSU stopped the run and got pressure on Petty in the second half, and shutout BU out completely in the 4th quarter. No matter what kind of O you're playing against, if you can stop the run and make them one dimensional, you will prevail far more often than not.

If anythjing, those two games last year--Baylor and OSU--demonstrate just how important the CB position is to Narduzzi's overall D. With Dennard and Waeyns both on the field, that never would have happened. With Darian Hicks replacing Dennard, it was a track meet on his side of the field all day.

As for the PAC 12, Stanford does just fine playing a similar defensive scheme to MSUs,--and of course MSU beat Stanford in the Rose Bowl last January. With the right athletic, physical players, the Narduzzi D is as good as it gets.

 

[vinniep33]

Totally agree. College coaches need to be fined if they play prevent defense. Bring it on both sides of the ball for 60 minutes.

60 minutes of hell!!!

 

[SteelCityChamps]

Price, Soto, Blair and Edwards can hopefully be serviceable.

 

[The Loaded Italian]

Hey, I hope to be surprised here, but based on last years play, the cupboard was rather bare. I dont like LB or DE really.