I am trying to figure out what your problem is. Are you saying that 6-8 wins is not status quo for PITT? We only won 5 last year but we were right there with other recent performance. How many 4 stars did we get yesterday? How many 4 stars visited? Living in reality is hardly a mistake I need to learn from. If you are satisfied with status quo and drunk on the panther kool-aid, perhaps you could learn to sip less of that kool-aid. I have to say that after reading your posts over the years you are better than that. I am still behind Duzz, I think he needs a big year this year or next to elevate recruiting. If he doesn't get it, it will be much more of the status quo.
recruiting or lack there of..........
- Thread starter 88Pitt88
- Start date
Some people think just because you get a kid from Florida he will turn into a stud. Half of these offer sheets these kids have are trash. I mean I see people celebrating on here because we beat North Carolina out for a kid. Is that what we have become if a kid had 1 Power 5 offer we declare victory?
Man I miss the days of Jackie Sherrill and Majors. Hell Wanny was a terrible game day coach but at least he could recruit and put together 9 win seasons.
People need to stop being delusional and wake up with recruiting.
Yes it's my first post I'm sure I'll be called a nitter even though I hate pedo u and that snake oils salesman up in cow pasture land. Anybody that doesn't drink the kool aid and think Narduzzi isn't the next Saban gets called a nitter on this board is laughable
Man I miss the days of Jackie Sherrill and Majors. Hell Wanny was a terrible game day coach but at least he could recruit and put together 9 win seasons.
People need to stop being delusional and wake up with recruiting.
Yes it's my first post I'm sure I'll be called a nitter even though I hate pedo u and that snake oils salesman up in cow pasture land. Anybody that doesn't drink the kool aid and think Narduzzi isn't the next Saban gets called a nitter on this board is laughable
Do you go out of your way to step in dog crap or is it just a matter of instinct?
Man, I'd probably be at the bar every night if I was stuck shoveling cow patties all day long. But here you are, daily. Morning and night.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather read your posts over ExMarathonJogger or FartRipper, as there's at least some humor to the insanity, but there's such a thing as moderation.
If one oversteps the bounds of moderation, the greatest pleasures cease to please.
You are mindless and brainwashed. We used to recruit some 4 star players under Wanny and even fraud. Now we are lucky to land one or two. When was the last time we won at least 9 games? Recruiting has been mostly middling in comparison to the rest of the ACC. Our record has been very middling. Do you really expect all these guys to be difference makers and raise the level of the program? Paris Ford is a difference maker. We do not get enough of these types. Try a little dose of reality! I would rather admit that I stepped in dog crap than walk around with it on my shoes and hold my head up high and pretend it didn't happen even tho you have to smell it all day.
Ya know u r kinda slow. Keep posting like this in the wake of events that show you clearly have no clue about what this staff is doing and honestly although one or two of your posts might be browse worthy at this point your stuff is really getting old.
Hail to Pitt
I'd take a 3 star, hell, even a 2 star if they fit HCPN's scheme better than a 4 or 5 star any day of the week. H2P
Based only on the offer sheets, looks like it's about the same! Hey we beat out Boston College, FIU, FAU, and Buffalo. OK, we'll see on game day.
What team recruits players that don't fit their scheme? I've never heard of such a thing. "This option QB doesn't fit our passing system, but recruit him anyway." Does that actually exist?
Sorry! I don't tow the company line like most of the rest. Not everyone shares your opinion on our recruiting. Many are afraid or overly concerned that they will be labeled a turncoat, troll, or nitter if they say something negative. I love Pitt as much or more than you do and am a proud alumnus. I want the team to excel and would love to see recruiting improve, I just don't think we are there yet. I like some of these commits and feel some are a bit of a reach.
I just wonder if they all didn't come in one day what some of the posters would say about each one individually. I suspect some would have been questioning the ability of at least a few. That said, the bonanza was impressive, I just wish we got a 4 star or two!
I get some are enamored with star rankings. But I really don’t care. I understand why, but it’s such an inexact rating system. Can someone honestly say that a 5.7 three star from FL clearly had less ability and a lower ceiling than a 5.8 four star from WPA?
They play different competition and probably don’t attend the same recruiting camps. How could anyone know for certain? We have landed a bunch of 5.7 rated players. Would anything be that different if they got that .1 extra rating in a very subjective rating system where they all don’t truly compete against each other or the same competition? I’d love more four and five star guys but there are only so many of those out there to be split up amongst all the teams out there. So we need to find the players that fit our system, can be coached up, work hard, are smart and who have higher ceilings than rankings show.
If some schools can be really great at landing four and five star players why can’t we be really great at recruiting the next level of ranked players who may actually be under ranked? You know they are out there. Kids who had to sit behind a superstar during their jr year, kids who didn’t hit their growth till after the junior year football season, kids who the light to really outwork everyone finally turns on, there are tons of kids that get overlooked that will make the NFL and be great College players. The staff needs to find those kids. The schools focused on four and five star guys only have so much time to put into these type of kids. This is where we can close the gap in talent even if the ranking doesn’t look like we did.
What we do know is we got some guys that a lot of other P5 programs wanted. We used to compete for MAC level players. But now we are recruiting against some great programs. We aren’t always winning but if you can’t see recruiting improvement despite rankings then I have to believe you are just looking to be contrary.
Probably not. But is that an argument for the 5.7 3*, or recruiting a more solid 4*?
Because it's far more difficult to find diamonds in the rough than it is to go to a jewelry store and pick one out.
In theory you're right. If 1 out of every 20 3* players get drafted (or whatever the number is), there isn't any reason why a particular school can't sign a class that just consists of 3* players that make up the "1." But in practice it's impossible.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Why set the bar so low? There's no reason why Pitt can't elevate its recruiting.
Not an argument for 5.7 over 5.8 obviously just the fact that in reality it’s probably not significant except one gets a fourth star and the other does not.
And I’m not really talking two star diamonds in the rough I’m talking about guys that are right at or just below the four star level. If we have zero chance with 95% of the 5 stars and 75% of the 4 stars that leaves us a lot more time to find the top level 3 star players and give them way more attention than the top programs who are focused on the high 4 star and 5 star players. A lot of players would prefer to be thought of as a plan A recruit as opposed to a plan C recruit. Some will hold out hope of the Ohio St, Alabama, LSU, Florida St etc, offers and we might get them late or not at all but if we get them late we know we have a guy that was on the cusp of being what the top programs were willing to take if they missed in their top prospects. And I think that can be good enough to build the program to more wins per year which in turn will help bring in better talent. Or at least in theory it should.
Not setting the bar low at all. But in reality we can’t waste time on guys who are not interested. And right now that is nearly every five star guy out there. So don’t waste the time and resources. If a highly rated kid gives you the vibe he is interested then go all out but don’t waste effort on a foregone conclusion. We can get excellent talent focused on high three star guys and an occasional four star guy. Then you win more and hope that improves recruiting more. It’s tough to build off of 35 years of mediocre football. Coach well. Recruit the best you can get. Win more than expected. Then repeat at a higher level.
fair enough.
I will take 6-8 four and five stars and line up against your "scheme" 2 stars and kick your ass every time.
Right, and I'm saying you shouldn't really value them either because the miss rate for them is still high. Not compared to the "just made the 4* cut," but once again, stop looking at stars, and look at the numerical rating.
The problem with stars is they are a shortcut. They are a way of explaining something with a few words. Which requires mass groupings and discrimination to quickly move the conversation along.
A kid with a 89, "just made it" rating, is going to get grouped with a 95 high NFL probability kid. Why? Because 4* has to start somewhere and end somewhere. So we put great value on that 89 "4* kid," and then say, "So how bad can the 88 3* kid be?"
Stop valuing both of them as "jewels." They both have high miss rates, and it's difficult to survive on either one being the best recruits you bring in.
No you wouldn't. Strategy beats (or should i say kick ass) skills 9 out of 10 times.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Not on this planet. Sometimes strategy gets lucky just like sometimes a 2-star becomes an All-Pro.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I think we are more in agreement than what you think. I am not valuing them higher. Obviously there are misses at every level, even with the five star players. My main point was that star rankings are not a be all and end all to recruiting. My first reply was to someone griping that we weren’t getting four star players and I was just making the statement that a 5.7 and a 5.8 probably aren’t very different except one gets four stars and one gets three stars in a very subjective ranking system.
Seriously? You don’t know the difference? Over the last 35 years what has PSU done compared to Pitt? Regardless of their sanctions (which were drastically reduced) they have always had a football first mentality. Look at their gameday atmosphere. They are playing in the Big10 which whether we like it or not, is generally considered bigger and better than the ACC. And I never said don’t pursue the top talent. I just said don’t waste your time and effort if the interest is not mutual. Is that really difficult for you to comprehend?
Again, if guys aren’t interested don’t waste the time. Guess what? PSU has guys interested that are four and five star guys. So they go after them. If there weren’t any four and five star players interested in PSU do you think it would be smart to still put the bulk of your efforts into those players? And if you don’t put heavy effort into them will they come?
PSU is PSU and for a large part of our state and many in our back yard they are THE school in PA. We might not like it, but until we outperform them for a lengthy period of time it will be easier for them.
The most important ratings of a player are those of the coaches of the various schools recruiting him. And as you state that can be a very subjective thing for many varied reasons. It's really kind of a "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing.
Sure, there are some players that virtually every coach thinks is gorgeous. But after that very top small group, the distinction becomes much more a matter of personal opinion.
No, not just now, for the last 35 years! Seriously are you dense? They are a national program. We used to be a national program and are trying to get back. They were knocked backed shortly by the Sandusky thing but even that didn’t stop some kids from wanting to go there. Plus they were let off easy with all the sanctions being reduced or shortened in time.
So to put it in perspective we are trying to overcome 35 years of mediocrity. James Franklin has to overcome a couple of years of mediocrity but those high school kids could still remember PSU being very good in their lifetime. How many high school kids remember Pitt being relevant in the national picture during their lives, other than upset victories?
Ok.....
So lets review:
1) PN is not bringing in 4 and 5 stars which you seem to be ok with
2) PN we will assume......has been bringing in players that fit his "scheme" since the day he was hired. I mean.......every coach plays a certain scheme and sticks with it, yes?
3)So..... With players that fit his "scheme"....and woefully few 4 and 5 stars on the roster......
Pitt won 5 games.
Which means one of two things:
Either getting better players is more important than getting average players that fit a scheme
Or......
You have no idea what you are talking about......
Or both........
Didn't Pitt have one of the youngest rosters in the P5 last year? Did that have anything to do with it?
Pitt was certainly lacking talent...at one key position. A few additional 4 stars wasn't going to make much difference w/ how the QB play was prior to Pickett time.
Sure, there's fault with any predictive system. You're forecasting something that hasn't happened yet. I'm not sure of anything that has a 100% success rate in such an endeavor.
But what you advocated for is impossible. No coach is capable of finding the 3* players that aren't really 3* players, and building a team around these missed evaluations.
Even for people that aren't fans of the star system, and I honestly don't understand how somebody can't be, they still support the "offer" system. They still support some kind of objective evidence that you're getting big time talent. Maybe it's possible to build a team around 3* players with offers from Clemson and VT and Miami and Michigan. But most 3* players don't have that kind of offer list.
In the end, a 3* is a 3* is a 3*. And the 3* this coach gets, or that coach gets, is probably going to play like a 3*. Statistically speaking.
Always have been. More alumni more fans more money more support. Which draws better recruits.
If there was a strategy that was better than the others, all the coaches would use it. This is sort of a silly statement. Sure, game day coaching matters, scheme matters, and teaching technique matters a lot. But Jimmy's and Joe's > X's and O's. There is a reason the same few teams get in the national title hunt with their talented rosters every year. Props to the very, very rare exceptions.
I don't blame Narduzzi for mostly landing 3 star recruits. That's who Pitt is. I am pro Narduzzi. We need stability at the coaching position for sure. But I am not going to get wildly excited about landing a bunch of 3 star guys. We'll see in a few years.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
So Pitt fan demands respect in every aspect except recruiting. Then, it's okay to claim we're little brother? You can't have it both ways. Especially when PSU was as far down as they could get.
We were the little Brother until the Golden Panthers got involved and "funded" (Lots of plain envelopes) like 85 scholarships in Majors first year. Then we competed with the Big Boys. Then they went away and now we are where we are and 3-4 years of any coach can't change it that fast. Even when Wanny was supposedly bringing in all the great classes ( had some great players) he still couldn't win the Big Least with them.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Except JF basically accomplished in 3-4 years exactly what Pitt should be expecting to do. All he did was come from a cellar dweller at Vandy that had like two winning record seasons in forever and got them to be a 9 win program in back to back seasons in the SEC before PSU hired him. Took him two years there. Three or four at PSU.
HCPN could have got PSU back to where are too given their national profile which we have not had in 35 years. And HCPN got us more wins in his first 2 years than we had since the Big Least with a tougher schedule IMHO before stepping back with a young team last year. And had a major upsets in the past 2 seasons which no one else had done expect maybe Walt and VT.
I want Pitt to be a national player but we really have not been one except for about 10 years back in the 70s and early 80s.
