Recruiting: The truth

[pittmeister]

There are many more 3-star players than there are 4-star players. The trick is for the coaches to find which ones they can develop and play like a 4–5-star players. That is how schools like Pitt have a chance to compete.

Back in the days of Majors / Sherrill, a 4-5 star rated player didn’t exist. They were known as “Blue Chip” players. They were players that were rated highly by high school coaches, a few independent scouting services (Joe Butler) and writers that covered high school / college sports.

Let me give you a little perspective of recruiting then versus today …Pitt has always had problems bringing in highly rated players. In fact, most urban schools (outside of USC) have always had problems attracting highly ranked players. This includes schools SMU, TCU, Houston, Cincinnati, etc…UCLA has been mediocre forever…. As for Miami? Once they got it going in the early 80’s, they knew in order to sustain it, they needed to involve high dollar donors. They did it for years until they finally got bust in 2011:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_University_of_Miami_athletics_scandal

They haven’t been the same since…

As for Pitt….

From 1973 through the late 80’s was the only time Pitt was able to bring in highly ranked players on a consistent basis. Recruiting was helped immensely by the Golden Panthers. I don’t know any details, but I’ll throw out a name…Have you ever heard of a guy named Henry Lee Parker? He was one of the guys in the middle of the payment scheme for SMU in the 1980’s that got them the death penalty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University_football_scandal

Before SMU, he was employed by another school. Look under coaching staff, “Coordinator of Recruiting”. I’ll leave it at that….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Pittsburgh_Panthers_football_team. He left with Majors when Sherrill took over.

Even with the help of the Golden Panthers and a national championship, it was still difficult for Sherrill to land highly rated players that weren’t local. In addition, the depth of local talent was drying up and competition from other schools for the top players was still strong. To find more talented players, Sherrill & staff had to recruit harder at the local level and had to scout elsewhere for more talent. It’s the same thing Narduzzi ‘s doing today. Sherrill and the staff were able to land low recruited players that became stars like: Bill Maas, Chris Doleman, Hugh Green, Sal Sunseri, Russ Grimm…

Per the book “Golden Panthers” in Sherrill’s first class (1977) one national publication rated the following players as “can’t miss prospects”:

Benjie Pryor, Lindsay Delaney, Mike Christ, Artrell Hawkins, Rooster Jones, Skip Sylvester, Rick Trocano, and Carlton Williamson. In other words, 4 STAR PLAYERS.

The other 3 Star bums? Hugh Green, Ricky Jackson, Jerry Boyarsky, Russ Grimm, Mark May, Bill Neill, Greg Meisner, Bill Neill, Lynn Thomas. In fairness, there were a lot of players that didn’t pan out as well…Just like today…

Nothing has changed… Scouting is and was an imperfect science. Coaches are paid millions to coach, scout and recruit players. It is up to them to find players that fit their scheme and develop them.

 

[PittMan 72]

Agree that evaluation, coaching and developing all players to improve is critical. But also, what has changed about recruiting dynamics now is NIL and the Transfer Portal.

Do you dole out lots of cash on a HS guy(s) who:
- May be a flop?
- May get injured?
- May enter the Portal and leave at any time?

-OR-
Do you spend your NIL $$$$ on a proven college player who has shown some of what he can do vs other college players, and will have already used his 1 time free underclassman transfer to leave his original school?

Plus a program also better be prepared to re-recruit their OWN players. So they don’t get enticed by other schools to try to lure them to enter the Portal with promises of big NIL riches. 😏

 

[pittmeister]

Agree that evaluation, coaching and developing all players to improve is critical. But also, what has changed about recruiting dynamics now is NIL and the Transfer Portal.

Do you dole out lots of cash on a HS guy(s) who:
- May be a flop?
- May get injured?
- May enter the Portal and leave at any time?

-OR-
Do you spend your NIL $$$$ on a proven college player who has shown some of what he can do vs other college players, and will have already used his 1 time free underclassman transfer to leave his original school?

Plus a program also better be prepared to re-recruit their OWN players. So they don’t get enticed by other schools to try to lure them to enter the Portal with promises of big NIL riches. 😏

Agreed. Great insight.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

QB is the "X" factor. It either brightens or dims the rest of the surrounding parts.

Has PITT ever been "bad" when we've had a good QB?

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

QB is the "X" factor. It either brightens or dims the rest of the surrounding parts.

Has PITT ever been "bad" when we've had a good QB?

Alex Van Pelt.

 

[PittMan 72]

Agreed. Great insight.

The genie is out of the bottle now, and the precedent has been set.

We are seeing college programs now have to put together an additional number of off-field staff to monitor and address the Portal and NIL.

If it were being handled appropriately and other schools were not illegally contacting players who hadn’t first entered the Portal to make themselves de-facto “free agents“ there would be less chaos and anarchy.

But there appears to be zero enforcement or punishments being levied against the offenders. It has to be very frustrating to put the time, effort and expense into coaching and developing a current player only to see him get poached away, even when he possibly has given no indication he’s not happy.

Don’t see things changing for the better, though. I guess having to deal with this stuff is part of the reason why P5 HC’s get paid the big bucks?

 

[pittmeister]

The genie is out of the bottle now, and the precedent has been set.

We are seeing college programs now have to put together an additional number of off-field staff to monitor and address the Portal and NIL.

If it were being handled appropriately and other schools were not illegally contacting players who hadn’t first entered the Portal to make themselves de-facto “free agents“ there would be less chaos and anarchy.

But there appears to be zero enforcement or punishments being levied against the offenders. It has to be very frustrating to put the time, effort and expense into coaching and developing a current player only to see him get poached away, even when he possibly has given no indication he’s not happy.

Don’t see things changing for the better, though. I guess having to deal with this stuff is part of the reason why P5 HC’s get paid the big bucks?

Ageed. Everything you laid out concerning the NIL has changed recruiting. No doubt. My main point is the difficulty for Pitt and other urban schools has not changed. The way Narduzzi is doing it is exactly how it should be done if you have any chance to compete.

Some posters act as if Pitt should be hauling in 4 Star recruits by the dozen. It has never happened unless you are willing to bend the rules. What Pitt did at the time was not nearly as bad as the SEC or SWC was doing at the time, not even close.

 

[PittMan 72]

Ageed. Everything you laid out concerning the NIL has changed recruiting. No doubt. My main point is the difficulty for Pitt and other urban schools has not changed. The way Narduzzi is doing it is exactly how it should be done if you have any chance to compete.

Some posters act as if Pitt should be hauling in 4 Star recruits by the dozen. It has never happened unless you are willing to bend the rules. What Pitt did at the time was not nearly as bad as the SEC or SWC was doing at the time, not even close.

Think that HCPN has learned and grown quite a bit since he got here. BOTH as an on-the-field HC and as a CEO of the FB program. He’s been a slower build type guy. That’s what he believes in and it reflects his values as a HC and a person.

The Breneman interview was in teresting and revealing. In particular about hiring staff and delegating authority. What he’s looking for. (Like the comments about Borbely being such a good teacher).

Your point about urban schools is spot on, IMO. Pitt is a unique place. Have often said it before: Pitt is not for everybody and everybody is not for Pitt. So PN and his staff not only have to just find good players, but also the ones who are reciprocally, legitimately interested in coming to play and learn at Pitt, in the city of Pittsburgh.

I happen to sincerely believe there are enough of those types of players around for Pitt to be very successful and highly competitive. But Pitt has to be diligent in finding the best “fits.” And just as importantly, not wasting a whole lot of time, effort, resources and expense in chasing the ones who aren’t.

 

[pittmeister]

Think that HCPN has learned and grown quite a bit since he got here. BOTH as an on-the-field HC and as a CEO of the FB program. He’s been a slower build type guy. That’s what he believes in and it reflects his values as a HC and a person.

The Breneman interview was in teresting and revealing. In particular about hiring staff and delegating authority. What he’s looking for. (Like the comments about Borbely being such a good teacher).

Your point about urban schools is spot on, IMO. Pitt is a unique place. Have often said it before: Pitt is not for everybody and everybody is not for Pitt. So PN and his staff not only have to just find good players, but also the ones who are reciprocally, legitimately interested in coming to play and learn at Pitt, in the city of Pittsburgh.

I happen to sincerely believe there are enough of those types of players around for Pitt to be very successful and highly competitive. But Pitt has to be diligent in finding the best “fits.” And just as importantly, not wasting a whole lot of time, effort, resources and expense in chasing the ones who aren’t.

“I happen to sincerely believe there are enough of those types of players around for Pitt to be very successful and highly competitive. But Pitt has to be diligent in finding the best “fits.” And just as importantly, not wasting a whole lot of time, effort, resources and expense in chasing the ones who aren’t.”

Bingo! I believe that as well.

 

[Burgh15]

Narduzzi gave a really good breakdown how he recruits. Players, not stars. He watches film on all the players Pitt recruits and they look for the right fit with evaluations from all levels of the coaching staff. Pitt needs better athletes to take that "next step" and those often are higher star rating, but not always. I feel like Pitt is finding stronger, faster players at the 3-star level. They have lacked at the QB position and I'd like to see better playmakers on offense. It's been a slow process, but they continue to move in the right direction.

 

[pittdan77]

There are many more 3-star players than there are 4-star players. The trick is for the coaches to find which ones they can develop and play like a 4–5-star players. That is how schools like Pitt have a chance to compete.

Back in the days of Majors / Sherrill, a 4-5 star rated player didn’t exist. They were known as “Blue Chip” players. They were players that were rated highly by high school coaches, a few independent scouting services (Joe Butler) and writers that covered high school / college sports.

Let me give you a little perspective of recruiting then versus today …Pitt has always had problems bringing in highly rated players. In fact, most urban schools (outside of USC) have always had problems attracting highly ranked players. This includes schools SMU, TCU, Houston, Cincinnati, etc…UCLA has been mediocre forever…. As for Miami? Once they got it going in the early 80’s, they knew in order to sustain it, they needed to involve high dollar donors. They did it for years until they finally got bust in 2011:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_University_of_Miami_athletics_scandal

They haven’t been the same since…

As for Pitt….

From 1973 through the late 80’s was the only time Pitt was able to bring in highly ranked players on a consistent basis. Recruiting was helped immensely by the Golden Panthers. I don’t know any details, but I’ll throw out a name…Have you ever heard of a guy named Henry Lee Parker? He was one of the guys in the middle of the payment scheme for SMU in the 1980’s that got them the death penalty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University_football_scandal

Before SMU, he was employed by another school. Look under coaching staff, “Recruiting Coordinator”. I’ll leave it at that….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Pittsburgh_Panthers_football_team. He left with Majors when Sherrill took over.

Even with the help of the Golden Panthers and a national championship, it was still difficult for Sherrill to land highly rated players that weren’t local. In addition, the depth of local talent was drying up and competition from other schools for the top players was still strong. To find more talented players, Sherrill & staff had to recruit harder at the local level and had to scout elsewhere for more talent. It’s the same thing Narduzzi ‘s doing today. Sherrill and the staff were able to land low recruited players that became stars like: Bill Maas, Chris Doleman, Hugh Green, Sal Sunseri, Russ Grimm…

Per the book “Golden Panthers” in Sherrill’s first class (1977) one national publication rated the following players as “can’t miss prospects”:

Benjie Pryor, Lindsay Delaney, Mike Christ, Artrell Hawkins, Rooster Jones, Skip Sylvester, Rick Trocano, and Carlton Williamson. In other words, 4 STAR PLAYERS.

The other 3 Star bums? Hugh Green, Ricky Jackson, Jerry Boyarsky, Russ Grimm, Mark May, Bill Neill, Greg Meisner, Bill Neill, Lynn Thomas. In fairness, there were a lot of players that didn’t pan out as well…Just like today…

Nothing has changed… Scouting is and was an imperfect science. Coaches are paid millions to coach, scout and recruit players. It is up to them to find players that fit their scheme and develop them.

Good post.

I remember the term "blue chip" got thrown around so much that it eventually lost meaning. A lot of a player's value had to do with local hype because there just weren't many ways a kid could get attention until the "4-star" camps came along. At least that's what I think they were called with someone's name on them. Held them at Mt. Lebanon's field. Remember getting invited the spring before my senior year and feeling like I was some kind of royalty. Looking back, I wasn't that good but I had size so I was there. What I can remember is pretty cool.

 

[Las Panteras]

While this analysis is sound (regarding players ratings back then), please note the internet was not as prevalant as today.

Ricky Jackson was a first team all state player from a very small town in Florida. Before Ricky, Pahokee was not known for being a football machine and his pedigree was known by coaches but perhaps not fanbases.

My point, Ricky Jackson today, in all likelihood would have been a 5 star player.

Im the larger picture, the "ratings" on kids would be exceedingly different today.

 

[NatronaHeightsPanther]

Ageed. Everything you laid out concerning the NIL has changed recruiting. No doubt. My main point is the difficulty for Pitt and other urban schools has not changed. The way Narduzzi is doing it is exactly how it should be done if you have any chance to compete.

Some posters act as if Pitt should be hauling in 4 Star recruits by the dozen. It has never happened unless you are willing to bend the rules. What Pitt did at the time was not nearly as bad as the SEC or SWC was doing at the time, not even close.

USC and Miami seem to do really well recruiting to urban areas. To me, that’s just excuse making by some Pitt fans. The problem for Pitt in recruiting is that they have one really good recruiter in Partridge, and then a bunch of below average recruiters. There is absolutely no excuse why Pitt isn’t pulling in a 1/2 dozen 4 stars every year. For every Pitt fan who points to the fact that Pitt has put kids in the league in the last 5 years, that’s great. But, Georgia has put 8 in the 1st round the last 2 years. There’s the difference between elite recruiting and below average recruiting.

 

[jivecat]

Corporate Panther explained this same situation years ago and was looking to revive the "Golden Panthers" before he sadly passed away. I believe we would have been in multiple college playoffs if he was still here today.

 

[pittguy81]

There are many more 3-star players than there are 4-star players. The trick is for the coaches to find which ones they can develop and play like a 4–5-star players. That is how schools like Pitt have a chance to compete.

Back in the days of Majors / Sherrill, a 4-5 star rated player didn’t exist. They were known as “Blue Chip” players. They were players that were rated highly by high school coaches, a few independent scouting services (Joe Butler) and writers that covered high school / college sports.

Let me give you a little perspective of recruiting then versus today …Pitt has always had problems bringing in highly rated players. In fact, most urban schools (outside of USC) have always had problems attracting highly ranked players. This includes schools SMU, TCU, Houston, Cincinnati, etc…UCLA has been mediocre forever…. As for Miami? Once they got it going in the early 80’s, they knew in order to sustain it, they needed to involve high dollar donors. They did it for years until they finally got bust in 2011:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_University_of_Miami_athletics_scandal

They haven’t been the same since…

As for Pitt….

From 1973 through the late 80’s was the only time Pitt was able to bring in highly ranked players on a consistent basis. Recruiting was helped immensely by the Golden Panthers. I don’t know any details, but I’ll throw out a name…Have you ever heard of a guy named Henry Lee Parker? He was one of the guys in the middle of the payment scheme for SMU in the 1980’s that got them the death penalty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University_football_scandal

Before SMU, he was employed by another school. Look under coaching staff, “Recruiting Coordinator”. I’ll leave it at that….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Pittsburgh_Panthers_football_team. He left with Majors when Sherrill took over.

Even with the help of the Golden Panthers and a national championship, it was still difficult for Sherrill to land highly rated players that weren’t local. In addition, the depth of local talent was drying up and competition from other schools for the top players was still strong. To find more talented players, Sherrill & staff had to recruit harder at the local level and had to scout elsewhere for more talent. It’s the same thing Narduzzi ‘s doing today. Sherrill and the staff were able to land low recruited players that became stars like: Bill Maas, Chris Doleman, Hugh Green, Sal Sunseri, Russ Grimm…

Per the book “Golden Panthers” in Sherrill’s first class (1977) one national publication rated the following players as “can’t miss prospects”:

Benjie Pryor, Lindsay Delaney, Mike Christ, Artrell Hawkins, Rooster Jones, Skip Sylvester, Rick Trocano, and Carlton Williamson. In other words, 4 STAR PLAYERS.

The other 3 Star bums? Hugh Green, Ricky Jackson, Jerry Boyarsky, Russ Grimm, Mark May, Bill Neill, Greg Meisner, Bill Neill, Lynn Thomas. In fairness, there were a lot of players that didn’t pan out as well…Just like today…

Nothing has changed… Scouting is and was an imperfect science. Coaches are paid millions to coach, scout and recruit players. It is up to them to find players that fit their scheme and develop them.

Pitt found Hugh Green while scouting Rooster Jones, because he jumped off the film. He had one offer, Mississippi State. The internet birthed the entire "recruiting services" scam......like some obscure guy giving his opinion is the end all and the be all. I still trust staffs to identify players they like and think will be successful in their program. After a few can't miss guys in every class, there are just a bunch of players that programs have to ID and go after. Having more internet "recruiting gurus" offering their subjective opinions changes nothing...

What is changing things is the NIL cash and deals

 

[pittdan77]

USC and Miami seem to do really well recruiting to urban areas. To me, that’s just excuse making by some Pitt fans.

I'm not sure how it's an excuse. USC and Miami happen to be located in the middle of two premium recruiting areas.

 

[pittguy81]

USC and Miami seem to do really well recruiting to urban areas. To me, that’s just excuse making by some Pitt fans. The problem for Pitt in recruiting is that they have one really good recruiter in Partridge, and then a bunch of below average recruiters. There is absolutely no excuse why Pitt isn’t pulling in a 1/2 dozen 4 stars every year. For every Pitt fan who points to the fact that Pitt has put kids in the league in the last 5 years, that’s great. But, Georgia has put 8 in the 1st round the last 2 years. There’s the difference between elite recruiting and below average recruiting.

Miami and LA are much bigger urban areas and they have more deep pocketed donors willing to pony up the $

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

USC and Miami seem to do really well recruiting to urban areas. To me, that’s just excuse making by some Pitt fans. The problem for Pitt in recruiting is that they have one really good recruiter in Partridge, and then a bunch of below average recruiters. There is absolutely no excuse why Pitt isn’t pulling in a 1/2 dozen 4 stars every year. For every Pitt fan who points to the fact that Pitt has put kids in the league in the last 5 years, that’s great. But, Georgia has put 8 in the 1st round the last 2 years. There’s the difference between elite recruiting and below average recruiting.

Los Angeles, CA and Miami, FL have far more talent in closer proximity and more desirable living areas for most college aged kids. They also have a lot more NIL money.

 

[Las Panteras]

Pitt found Hugh Green while scouting Rooster Jones, because he jumped off the film. He had one offer, Mississippi State. The internet birthed the entire "recruiting services" scam......like some obscure guy giving his opinion is the end all and the be all. I still trust staffs to identify players they like and think will be successful in their program. After a few can't miss guys in every class, there are just a bunch of players that programs have to ID and go after. Having more internet "recruiting gurus" offering their subjective opinions changes nothing...

What is changing things is the NIL cash and deals

There is more to it than just recruiting scams.

The SEC has become a behemoth. If i had to guess, Hugh Green coming out of HS today would have multiple SEC offers.

And even if his 2 offers were Pitt and MSU today i believe he goes to State

 

[pittguy81]

There is more to it than just recruiting scams.

The SEC has become a behemoth. If i had to guess, Hugh Green coming out of HS today would have multiple SEC offers.

And even if his 2 offers were Pitt and MSU today i believe he goes to State

It's all about the $ today.....although the Golden Panthers used to grease plenty of palms with no show jobs, free apartments and cars, cash etc....today the disparity is massive.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

The SEC has become a behemoth. If i had to guess, Hugh Green coming out of HS today would have multiple SEC offers.

And even if his 2 offers were Pitt and MSU today i believe he goes to State

True. Although I also wonder if race was still a factor then. Especially with schools in Mississippi

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

USC and Miami seem to do really well recruiting to urban areas. To me, that’s just excuse making by some Pitt fans. The problem for Pitt in recruiting is that they have one really good recruiter in Partridge, and then a bunch of below average recruiters. There is absolutely no excuse why Pitt isn’t pulling in a 1/2 dozen 4 stars every year. For every Pitt fan who points to the fact that Pitt has put kids in the league in the last 5 years, that’s great. But, Georgia has put 8 in the 1st round the last 2 years. There’s the difference between elite recruiting and below average recruiting.

I agree to a certain extent. I think recruiting can be better especially locally. Perception is hard to change. I remember back in the Walt era when Eugene Jarvis was offered and he said he was happy for it because it was a great fall back offer. Joke turned out to be on him as Walt signed LaRod and immediately withdrew the Jarvis offer. He never got a better offer although I believe he did have a nice career at Kent.

So if a local guy from PCC, who is borderline P5, thinks your program is a fallback school then there is much to be done to change perception

 

[pittmeister]

I agree to a certain extent. I think recruiting can be better especially locally. Perception is hard to change. I remember back in the Walt era when Eugene Jarvis was offered and he said he was happy for it because it was a great fall back offer. Joke turned out to be on him as Walt signed LaRod and immediately withdrew the Jarvis offer. He never got a better offer although I believe he did have a nice career at Kent.

So if a local guy from PCC, who is borderline P5, thinks your program is a fallback school then there is much to be done to change perception

Yup, Eugene Jarvis… He’s still waiting for that Michigan offer.

 

[NatronaHeightsPanther]

I'm not sure how it's an excuse. USC and Miami happen to be located in the middle of two premium recruiting areas.

The WPIAL used to be a premium recruiting area, but even when the talent was great, Pitt’s back yard got raided by others. Pitt losing Central kids to Notre Dame and Penn State is mind boggling. This goes back to Pitt having bad recruiters

 

[NatronaHeightsPanther]

I agree to a certain extent. I think recruiting can be better especially locally. Perception is hard to change. I remember back in the Walt era when Eugene Jarvis was offered and he said he was happy for it because it was a great fall back offer. Joke turned out to be on him as Walt signed LaRod and immediately withdrew the Jarvis offer. He never got a better offer although I believe he did have a nice career at Kent.

So if a local guy from PCC, who is borderline P5, thinks your program is a fallback school then there is much to be done to change perception

Agreed, but isn’t it important for Pitt to change that perception? Now that the WPIAL doesn’t have nearly as many good players, maybe it doesn’t matter. But, this staff and previous staff’s failed to build a fence around the WPIAL.

 

[pittdan77]

The WPIAL used to be a premium recruiting area, but even when the talent was great, Pitt’s back yard got raided by others. Pitt losing Central kids to Notre Dame and Penn State is mind boggling. This goes back to Pitt having bad recruiters

So because Foge Fazio couldn’t put a team together, Pitt can’t recruit like Miami and USC?

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Agreed, but isn’t it important for Pitt to change that perception? Now that the WPIAL doesn’t have nearly as many good players, maybe it doesn’t matter. But, this staff and previous staff’s failed to build a fence around the WPIAL.

Winning goes a long way to changing perception, but unfortunately conference affiliation is playing a bigger role too.

And even in the glory days, there was never a fence around WPA. Maybe it was because there were a lot more prospects to go around we didn't notice it as much. But I remember being upset when Joel Coles, the all-everything RB from Penn Hills signed with the nits just a year or so after TD won the Heisman at Pitt. That one didn't make sense to me.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

USC and Miami seem to do really well recruiting to urban areas.

Are their coaches not very good then or are the recruits overrated? Reason I say that is they really don't seem to put it on the field.

The WPIAL used to be a premium recruiting area, but even when the talent was great, Pitt’s back yard got raided by others. Pitt losing Central kids to Notre Dame and Penn State is mind boggling. This goes back to Pitt having bad recruiters

Is there a northeastern city that ND hasn't had success in? OSU owns the state of Ohio. It's kind of rare. Yet, ND always has done well in that state. They've done well in every NE state.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Winning goes a long way to changing perception, but unfortunately conference affiliation is playing a bigger role too.

And even in the glory days, there was never a fence around WPA. Maybe it was because there were a lot more prospects to go around we didn't notice it as much. But I remember being upset when Joel Coles, the all-everything RB from Penn Hills signed with the nits just a year or so after TD won the Heisman at Pitt. That one didn't make sense to me.

A lot of kids just think of college as a suburban or small town campus and college football as a huge, 100 year old stadium with 80,000 seats. Pitt is neither. Some kids just don't want to leave their English class and be out on Forbes Ave. I did. I hated South Bend and Happy Valley. I only applied to urban schools - Pitt, Chicago, Penn.

But kids like me are the minority. My class in Central PA sent 3 kids to Pitt and dozens to Penn State. It just is what it is. We have to find kids who like Pitt and get them. Don't waste time with kids who aren't 100% excited from the get-go like Henry Parrish.

 

[forbesfield]

Yup, Eugene Jarvis… He’s still waiting for that Michigan offer.

Jarvis was a great high school running back, but I never thought he was a top level guy. He ended up where he should have.

 

[pafootballguy]

Another thing people tend to forget about recruiting in the 70's and 80's was the 105 scholarship limit

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Jarvis was a great high school running back, but I never thought he was a top level guy. He ended up where he should have.

One of the best high school players I've seen, but borderline P5 (if he was 5'10" instead of 5'5" he would have been a 5-star), Screwed himself royally by saying Pitt was a nice fallback offer, then Walt said sorry we're giving your spot to Stephens-Howling (who was a better college player). Ended up at Kent I believe and had a decent career.

 

[jivecat]

One of the best high school players I've seen, but borderline P5 (if he was 5'10" instead of 5'5" he would have been a 5-star), Screwed himself royally by saying Pitt was a nice fallback offer, then Walt said sorry we're giving your spot to Stephens-Howling (who was a better college player). Ended up at Kent I believe and had a decent career.

The Johnstown Jet was great.....I believe he played in the pros as well. I sat with him at the PSU game in 2016, fantastic guy.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Screwed himself royally by saying Pitt was a nice fallback offer, then Walt said sorry we're giving your spot to Stephens-Howling (who was a better college player). Ended up at Kent I believe and had a decent career.

Jarvis was plagued by injuries in college but it's hard to say that LSH had a better college career.

 

[pbrad]

There is more to it than just recruiting scams.

The SEC has become a behemoth. If i had to guess, Hugh Green coming out of HS today would have multiple SEC offers.

And even if his 2 offers were Pitt and MSU today i believe he goes to State

Jackie was one of the best recruiters in the country.