I really wasn't insinuating anything. Just stating that a one year grad transfer would be fine. No where in your post did you say you were strictly talking about a grad transfer. So I guess we can agree to agree.
Remaing Two Ships
- Thread starter DC_Area_Panther
- Start date
Are you guys really sweating the 13th scholarship ??
dear lord
dear lord
I'm not.
IMHO, Capel will either fill it with someone good enough to immediately (or eventually) be a significant contributor (freshman, JUCO, sit-out transfer) or with a grad transfer talented enough to get Murphy-like minutes. Otherwise, as Corey Evans predicts, Capel won't bother, IMO.
IMHO, Capel will either fill it with someone good enough to immediately (or eventually) be a significant contributor (freshman, JUCO, sit-out transfer) or with a grad transfer talented enough to get Murphy-like minutes. Otherwise, as Corey Evans predicts, Capel won't bother, IMO.
Guys, our back up PG last year was a 5'10" walk on. If we had filled that ship even with a mediocre grad transfer who could play spot minutes behind X we would have been in much better shape. I like Onye but if he's getting meaningful minutes next year that's a problem. All it would take is a guy turn an ankle, another get in foul trouble and it would happen again. Leaving that spot open instead of taking a 1 year player would be dumb. I hope he doesn't do it again.
If only Capel could land a Monty Boykins or Samson George as the 13th man. Damn you Capel.
Not going to get anyone enough better than Onye to make a difference unless they are promised Murphy level minutes (20-ish minutes per game). You can't really believe there is a a significantly better grad transfer out there who will come to Pitt for nothing but bench time unless there is a season ending injury? That only happens for teams expected to make a deep NCAA tourney run where the possibility of being on an NCCAA championship team is an attraction.
If we’re talking about last year, which we were, we didn’t fill the TENTH scholarship. We used 9 scholarships on players who could play last year. So yes, the open scholarship last year was dumb. Or at least not trying for immediate eligibility for Horton was dumb.
This year assuming all goes to plan that won’t be a problem. The problem with plans and college sports are they never work out.
The correct way to recruit nowadays is being done right down the street. Dambrot currently has 15 guys on scholarship for next year because he’s either gonna force out dead weight or guys will leave on their own. There’s no point in being loyal to these kids because the next kid who is loyal to a coach will be the first.
If this one time transfer goes through there is no way one of the two of XJ or Toney finishes their career at Pitt. One of them will get bad advice and go to another school.
This year assuming all goes to plan that won’t be a problem. The problem with plans and college sports are they never work out.
The correct way to recruit nowadays is being done right down the street. Dambrot currently has 15 guys on scholarship for next year because he’s either gonna force out dead weight or guys will leave on their own. There’s no point in being loyal to these kids because the next kid who is loyal to a coach will be the first.
If this one time transfer goes through there is no way one of the two of XJ or Toney finishes their career at Pitt. One of them will get bad advice and go to another school.
I seriously doubt that he’d leave that last spot open “just because”. It’s possible that Capel hasn’t or can’t find a grad transfer guard to accept that role. And he likely won’t. And even if he did find someone — our season is over if X gets hurt anyway.
If JC can’t find someone who can contribute immediately why not reward O Ezeakudo with a scholarship for the year . Then he doesn’t have to hear how he left open a ship ! He showed that he can handle short periods of PT last yr .
Otherwise I see no value in adding a Murphy like talent that takes away PT from a player like Femi or hopefully Jeffress development .
Otherwise I see no value in adding a Murphy like talent that takes away PT from a player like Femi or hopefully Jeffress development .
My concern is more that Femi may not be ready for big minutes in the ACC and adding another decent body could help us in the backcourt with XJ tendency for foul problems.
I think the addition of a 4th guard, emergency ball handler is a must.
I feel like O ezeakudo is the “emergency” 4th guard. It would definitely help to get another body in there, but I wouldn’t say it’s a “must.” No one knows how much Femi will be able to contribute right away, but he HAS to be better than Murphy, right?? Our depth at guard is exactly the same as last season — maybe better. It’s obviously not ideal, but they can definitely manage with the roster they have now
As you said, Our depth is the same as last year. As far as being
"maybe better" that's only if Femi is better than Murphy, and we don't
know that. The point is, as it's been for months now...we have three
guards on scholarshiop plus a walk on. Three guards is not enough
in today's basketball no matter how you slice and dice it. We need
another guard, and I would like it to be a combo grad transfer if at
all possible.
How about adding a well rounded (I dont mean fat) talent who's a real hybrid (not an electric car) G,F, who would be able to fill in when players are in foul trouble, injured, or need a break .
Pitt had players like this on some of their previous high performing teams.
Today it seems every player is a specialist which causes problems when player availability is limited. Players get eaten up when they switch positions.
Just a thought .
Pitt had players like this on some of their previous high performing teams.
Today it seems every player is a specialist which causes problems when player availability is limited. Players get eaten up when they switch positions.
Just a thought .
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I think it’s the opposite - the staff puts a premium on players with position flexibility. Toney, Champagnie, and Jeffress were all recruited to play multiple positions, and seem to fit to a “T” the type of player you’re advocating for.
A "hybrid G,F" as you mentioned would be fine by me. If he had an
outside shot and could handle the point on occasion that would be
a bonus. I'm guessing that Femi is robably that type that you're
talking about. My point remains the same though. three guards
is not enough....so I'd be fine with the "hybrid" type or combo type
that I previously mentioned.
You're right, they all are the type with "position flexibility." They are
also all forward/wing types. Which of that bunch could also play guard?
I'm not suggesting they can't play some minutes as an off guard in
today's often positionless game. I'm curious what posters think about
this, since I'm often posting a need for a fourth guard.
I think Toney could absolutely be a 2 guard under the right circumstances. Drumgoole was recruited to be that, too, he just needs to put it together. The 2 isn’t the best position for either one (though it might be Toney’s at the professional level), but they’ve definitely recruited guys to have that kind of flexibility.
For years, and I mean years, I have been advocating for people that can truly handle the ball depth.
That has been met with claims of available position flexibility and how this player or that player could fill in at that role.
Remember, Cam Johnson played point before his growth spurt? People were saying Trey Murphy could be a combo guard at 6-8. He was not a combo guard. He could not see time at the point.
Get a grad transfer that can handle the ball, if he can shoot consider that a bonus.
A grad transfer point fills two needs: point guard depth and an available scholarship for next recruiting season.
I agree with you that getting another experienced guard with decent talent would be a good thing. I just don't believe it is possible or likely this time around because guaranteed significant guard PT at Pitt next season doesn't exist like it did last season. Maybe I will be proven wrong and they will land a grad transfer late. It would be a good insurance policy.
Yeah, I absolutely think that adding another guard at this point is needed. I didn’t feel that way when the roster was Johnson, McGowens, Horton, and Odukale. But now that Trey is gone, having three guys back there isn’t ideal even if someone like Toney or Drumgoole can play the 2 in spots. I think Johnson and Femi are a pretty good combination at point guard, though, but having another combo guard who could potentially play a few minutes at point would be great.
Yeah I think everyone is in agreement about that — I just feel like it’s probably not going to happen (for a couple reasons that have already been talked about), and I just hope that people don’t blame Capel if he can’t fill that spot.
IMO Toney will never be a 2 here he can't handle or shoot good enough for that. In saying that I hope he's able to some how work on both right now but working on his ball-handling is something he probably really can do right now even if you can't shoot. I really think he'll improve but how much is the question.
The very long shot here could be if they were to add Mane late summer when (or if) the NBA tells him to go play college ball for a year because he isn’t ready to be drafted for guaranteed money. This would work much like adding a grad transfer guard as he could/would be Capel’s first one and done.
X, Mane, Toney, Champ, and Hugley would be one of the best starting 5s that Pitt has seen in a while
After his 1 for whatever at that beginning of the season, Toney shot the 3 better than Murphy.
That maybe true but if you know basketball and I assume you do you know the eye test tells you there's no way in hell Toney's a 2-guard.
Was Artis a PG as a Soph?
No one is talking about him taking 20-25 minutes at the 2. He could easily take 5-10 if needed.
If you compare Jr Toney verses Jr Murphy at the 2- I'm taking Toney.
Toney isn't a 2 in the NBA. There's no reason he can't play some 2 in college. It's not necessarily his ideal position, but a weaker handle alone won't prevent him from playing the position. His shooting is fine. I think you absolutely want to get a guy like Toney on the floor as much as possible and I'd be shocked if some of that time isn't spent as a 2.
All good points in this thread about Toney. My "eye test" tells me he's
not a 2 BUT....I won't go so far to say he couldn't get some minutes
there and not hurt us.
What my "eye test" does tell me though.....is he's one hell of force
on the inside as a 6'6" forward. His shot improved dramatically
this past season, whereas he couldn't put the ball in the ocean
his first season here. IF he were to develop a handle, and that
includes ball handling skills, maybe just maybe he could be
effective at the 2. Personally though, we'd be giving up a lot
on the inside unless we have someone who can be as good as
he is there.
not a 2 BUT....I won't go so far to say he couldn't get some minutes
there and not hurt us.
What my "eye test" does tell me though.....is he's one hell of force
on the inside as a 6'6" forward. His shot improved dramatically
this past season, whereas he couldn't put the ball in the ocean
his first season here. IF he were to develop a handle, and that
includes ball handling skills, maybe just maybe he could be
effective at the 2. Personally though, we'd be giving up a lot
on the inside unless we have someone who can be as good as
he is there.
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Like anything, it depends on the circumstances. I'm as big a fan of Capel as a coach as anyone on this board, but if we find ourselves in a situation come the summer where we've put all of our eggs in the Karim Mane basket, and the kid decides to either stay in the draft or go elsewhere, and we've missed out on a bunch of otherwise viable grad transfers in the process, then that decision will ultimately come back to bite Capel.
It seems clear to me that when Trey transferred, the staff decided that they needed to go after another guard, which is when they escalated their recruitment of Mane. It's just a much riskier move to go all-in on Mane (and again, I'm making the assumption that they're all-in on Mane because we haven't heard them connected to anyone else right now - that could change, but it seems like that's the situation today) versus pushing the chips in on a quality, but achievable, grad transfer for the 2020-21 season - the kid from Monmouth who just entered the portal this week, for example - and going into May with your roster intact. On the other hand, the situation that appears more likely is that Mane either stays in the draft in June or withdraws from the draft and commits to Marquette or MSU in June...and we're stuck holding the bag with either whatever grad transfer is left on the market in the summer or just going into the year with 12 scholarships. Again, I'm as big a fan of the guy as a coach as anyone is, but I don't think that it would be unfair or overly critical to second guess the decision if that's the way it ends up going down.
There could also be a whole new source of available transfers becoming available if the NCAA passes the "1 time transfer with no penalty" rule. Pending a decision by the NCAA Division I Council to take place this month, a vote could be taken in May (date I've seen is May, 20th). If a vote is taken, most reports indicate that the sentiment is that it will pass and become effective immediately. If it is voted on and does pass, then underclassmen could transfer and would be eligible to play in the 2020-2021 season.
So until things are finalized on that, it may be difficult to determine what the potential options to add additional players for the upcoming season might be. Should know a lot more in the next month. During the interim, would think it's a very good good approach for Pitt to keep pursuing some high level high school talent like a couple of the guys they are right now. Would imagine the college coaches and AD's - including Pitt's - have the best sources of information on what may be apt to happen through communications with their respective conference administrators and the NCAA.
Artis had handle and was a scoring who could get his own shot. As a we seen Murph didn't have the foot speed or athleticism and Toney doesn't have the handle to go get his own shot and that's what you need for your SG to be able to do. I don't want you guys to think I don't Toney because I love the young man's grit and his game is coming along but he's not a 2 at all.
A weak handle won't stop him! Please tell me how will he get his own shot if he can't dribble around his man and he's not a great shooter. I don't see no reason why X can't play center you see how that sounds. My point exactly!!
I totally agree with you if some how he can really improve his handle and his shooting too I could see him there in a pinch but as the player we know now he gets no time there IMO.
Points, Wings, Bigs
stop obsessing about positions
stop obsessing about positions
Femi has got to be better than what Murphy was after the head injury. He was a complete liability on the court after the injury. I doubt he will be a better shooter, but he should be an upgrade in just about every way with his size and length. Murphy was outclassed in the ACC. Femi has the athletic ability to compete in this conference. I don't think it takes a great leap of faith to believe this. He will indeed be an upgrade.
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