Ryan Odom Watch

[Sean Miller Fan]

Utah State is now 4-0. The schedule has been relatively weak but its not like they can step on the court and overwhelm you with talent.

Pitt's best hope is that he has a good, but not great season. They were picked 8th in the 11 team MWC.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Hope we're watching him through a one-way mirror. Cause if he's watching us, too, he might think "Ehhhhhhh, maybe not."

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Hope we're watching him through a one-way mirror. Cause if he's watching us, too, he might think "Ehhhhhhh, maybe not."

Depends on his options. Guys who are like Hurley can turn Pitt down. I don’t think Odom’s there. Doesn’t mean he auto accepts - however insider said he wants it. I tend to believe him but even then a lot can happen (or not happen).

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Depends on his options. Guys who are like Hurley can turn Pitt down. I don’t think Odom’s there. Doesn’t mean he auto accepts - however insider said he wants it. I tend to believe him but even then a lot can happen (or not happen).

I was mostly messing around. If we fire Capel after this season, we offer more job security than just about any place in the nation while we're still paying the buyout for him. No way we're paying two buyouts.

On top of that, Capel himself has proven that it's quite possible to get talent here. AND the ACC is down, and expectations are as low as humanly possible. I don't think this job is as bleak as some like to make it out to be.

 

[pittchagg]

Hope we're watching him through a one-way mirror. Cause if he's watching us, too, he might think "Ehhhhhhh, maybe not."

We’re an ACC job, in his geographic comfort zone, that pays solidly in the upper half of the conference, with upper half resources. The roster fully turns over, and the local talent (Pitt’s one traditional impediment) continues to produce more high major talent, especially over the next few cycles.

 

[Vader_Storm]

I was mostly messing around. If we fire Capel after this season, we offer more job security than just about any place in the nation while we're still paying the buyout for him. No way we're paying two buyouts.

On top of that, Capel himself has proven that it's quite possible to get talent here. AND the ACC is down. I don't think this job is as bleak as some like to make it out to be.

He's proven he can get frontcourt players or undersized power forwards that are good and can play.

Hugley
Champ
Toney
Hinson
Gueye
Twins (although they have a lot to prove)
AKC was ok

That's a real decent batch of bigs from where we were under Stallings.



Its the guards / guard decommits / guard development that is underwhelming. Especially point guards. Our guard play this year is currently a train wreck.


We could be a real decent team with a healthy Hugley with a "true point guard" with 2 other quality guards that can shoot / pass / play defense and stop dribble penetration.


From what I have seen through 4 games this year, the trio of Dior / Lowe / Carrington would most likely start over our current batch of players. I really like our incoming recruiting class, but Im really on the fence if those quality guards are worth it over Capel trying to figure things out. Although you can see what 1 quality guard gives a team, aka Mintz at Syracuse.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

We’re an ACC job, in his geographic comfort zone, that pays solidly in the upper half of the conference, with upper half resources. The roster fully turns over, and the local talent (Pitt’s one traditional impediment) continues to produce more high major talent, especially over the next few cycles.

I was kidding. I read BBallInsider talk about the Odom situation with info straight out of the horse's mouth yesterday.

 

[pittchagg]

He's proven he can get frontcourt players or undersized power forwards that are good and can play.

Hugley
Champ
Toney
Hinson
Gueye
Twins (although they have a lot to prove)
AKC was ok

That's a real decent batch of bigs from where we were under Stallings.



Its the guards / guard decommits / guard development that is underwhelming. Especially point guards. Our guard play this year is currently a train wreck.


We could be a real decent team with a healthy Hugley with a "true point guard" with 2 other quality guards that can shoot / pass / play defense and stop dribble penetration.


From what I have seen through 4 games this year, the trio of Dior / Lowe / Carrington would most likely start over our current batch of players. I really like our incoming recruiting class, but Im really on the fence if those quality guards are worth it over Capel trying to figure things out. Although you can see what 1 quality guard gives a team, aka Mintz at Syracuse.

Capel’s general ability to build something resembling competent depth in the frontcourt, and being totally unable to do the same in the backcourt, will be one of the more mystifying parts of his time here.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

He's proven he can get frontcourt players or undersized power forwards that are good and can play.

Hugley
Champ
Toney
Hinson
Gueye
Twins (although they have a lot to prove)
AKC was ok

That's a real decent batch of bigs from where we were under Stallings.



Its the guards / guard decommits / guard development that is underwhelming. Especially point guards. Our guard play this year is currently a train wreck.


We could be a real decent team with a healthy Hugley with a "true point guard" with 2 other quality guards that can shoot / pass / play defense and stop dribble penetration.


From what I have seen through 4 games this year, the trio of Dior / Lowe / Carrington would most likely start over our current batch of players. I really like our incoming recruiting class, but Im really on the fence if those quality guards are worth it over Capel trying to figure things out. Although you can see what 1 quality guard gives a team, aka Mintz at Syracuse.

What I'm saying is that Capel has proven this isn't some tainted area that good recruits would never come to. Including this coming class, he's gotten talent to sign with Pitt. You could even argue that a few of the guys who haven't panned out - Drumgoole (who is actually playing well this season), Jeffres, etc. - were still good *gets.*

I don't like the way he has constructed our rosters at all, but at least we've seen this isn't like recruiting football players to Rutgers or something. Talent still wants to come here, somehow.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

He's proven he can get frontcourt players or undersized power forwards that are good and can play.

Hugley
Champ
Toney
Hinson
Gueye
Twins (although they have a lot to prove)
AKC was ok

That's a real decent batch of bigs from where we were under Stallings.



Its the guards / guard decommits / guard development that is underwhelming. Especially point guards. Our guard play this year is currently a train wreck.


We could be a real decent team with a healthy Hugley with a "true point guard" with 2 other quality guards that can shoot / pass / play defense and stop dribble penetration.


From what I have seen through 4 games this year, the trio of Dior / Lowe / Carrington would most likely start over our current batch of players. I really like our incoming recruiting class, but Im really on the fence if those quality guards are worth it over Capel trying to figure things out. Although you can see what 1 quality guard gives a team, aka Mintz at Syracuse.

Fair with one exception - I’ll never get your continued insistence on AKC. He was not even close to ok.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

What I'm saying is that Capel has proven this isn't some tainted area that good recruits would never come to. Including this coming class, he's gotten talent to sign with Pitt. You could even argue that a few of the guys who haven't panned out - Drumgoole (who is actually playing well this season), Jeffres, etc. - were still good *gets.*

I don't like the way he has constructed our rosters at all, but at least we've seen this isn't like recruiting football players to Rutgers or something. Talent still wants to come here, somehow.

I would imagine the chance for playing time in a big name conference still has some sway. Down as the ACC may be, it still has name value.

 

[pittchagg]

What I'm saying is that Capel has proven this isn't some tainted area that good recruits would never come to. Including this coming class, he's gotten talent to sign with Pitt. You could even argue that a few of the guys who haven't panned out - Drumgoole (who is actually playing well this season), Jeffres, etc. - were still good *gets.*

I don't like the way he has constructed our rosters at all, but at least we've seen this isn't like recruiting football players to Rutgers or something. Talent still wants to come here, somehow.

I do think it’s important context that with Carrington and Lowe, Capel has known both of their dads for more than a decade. It’s good to leverage your connections, no doubt, but those were both recruitments that we had an in with (Barnes, too)

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I do think it’s important context that with Carrington and Lowe, Capel has known both of their dads for more than a decade. It’s good to leverage your connections, no doubt, but those were both recruitments that we had an in with (Barnes, too)

That's fair. But other guys have connections, too; that's part of the recruiting game. Plus he's still gotten talent beyond those guys (including transfers with other options), and any new coach who comes here will always get that initial "selling a vision" bump in recruiting.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Fair with one exception - I’ll never get your continued insistence on AKC. He was not even close to ok.

He was a decent depth player

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

He was a decent depth player

I don’t agree. If we want a good team, and I’m not even suggesting the glory years, we need better. He played because someone had to.

He left St Bonaventure for UMass Lowell. Looks like he’s doing well there and it’s probably about where he belongs.

 

[Vader_Storm]

That's fair. But other guys have connections, too; that's part of the recruiting game. Plus he's still gotten talent beyond those guys (including transfers with other options), and any new coach who comes here will always get that initial "selling a vision" bump in recruiting.

I could be wrong on this, but I think Capel was oversold on the potential of X and Femi. And I was high on Femi's potential.

X came out of the gate putting up significant points as a freshmen. Athletic, explosive with a fast first step, tons of potential. Johnson is a 5th year senior averaging 5 points per game at Indiana playing under 20 minutes per game. Those numbers will go up, but its not even close to the 1 and done talk from Johnson 5 years ago. Johnson never developed into a high end college player and shooting is a big reason why along with lots of turnovers.


Femi is the same. Huge senior season in prep basketball. Tall, huge wingspan, decent athletic ability and defender, lots of potential. There was plenty of interest from quality schools in the portal with him. He's averaging 4 points per game as a backup at Seton Hall currently and never filled out the potential, at least not yet.



The EYBL / summer league numbers are very important. There is a huge correlation to quality players in the EYBL / summer leagues and what players do in college. The numbers at guard play in the EYBL from Dior Johnson, Lowe, and Carrington, blow away every other guard we got with the exceptions of Mintz and Hood-Schifino. Femi missed time in the summer league, and X was average in the summer league. X is still average in college, maybe above average.


The 3 head scratchers are Julian Champagnie, Posh Alexander, and Ty-laur Johnson, all of which were big time in the EYBL / summer league. We already paid the price now not recruiting the former 2.


I think its still early to say what Jeffress can do / become, he is still really young. Drumgoole was a bust at the Power 6 and so was Mcgowens.



I think the jury is also still out with Dellquan Warren. This is another player that is quite similar to X with poor decision making but outstanding "potential". We are targeting him heavily. But in terms of basketball skill at the current time, he is quite behind Lowe, Carrington, and Dior until he fixes his decision making on the floor.

I think Capel's judgement on our guards has been poor, and that includes guards he passed on in high school. And that also includes Horton, who Capel thought was a superstar from practices.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I could be wrong on this, but I think Capel was oversold on the potential of X and Femi. And I was high on Femi's potential.

X came out of the gate putting up significant points as a freshmen. Athletic, explosive with a fast first step, tons of potential. Johnson is a 5th year senior averaging 5 points per game at Indiana playing under 20 minutes per game. Those numbers will go up, but its not even close to the 1 and done talk from Johnson 5 years ago. Johnson never developed into a high end college player and shooting is a big reason why along with lots of turnovers.


Femi is the same. Huge senior season in prep basketball. Tall, huge wingspan, decent athletic ability and defender, lots of potential. There was plenty of interest from quality schools in the portal with him. He's averaging 4 points per game as a backup at Seton Hall currently and never filled out the potential, at least not yet.



The EYBL / summer league numbers are very important. There is a huge correlation to quality players in the EYBL / summer leagues and what players do in college. The numbers at guard play in the EYBL from Dior Johnson, Lowe, and Carrington, blow away every other guard we got with the exceptions of Mintz and Hood-Schifino. Femi missed time in the summer league, and X was average in the summer league. X is still average in college, maybe above average.


The 3 head scratchers are Julian Champagnie, Posh Alexander, and Ty-laur Johnson, all of which were big time in the EYBL / summer league. We already paid the price now not recruiting the former 2.


I think its still early to say what Jeffress can do / become, he is still really young. Drumgoole was a bust at the Power 6 and so was Mcgowens.



I think the jury is also still out with Dellquan Warren. This is another player that is quite similar to X with poor decision making but outstanding "potential". We are targeting him heavily. But in terms of basketball skill at the current time, he is quite behind Lowe, Carrington, and Dior until he fixes his decision making on the floor.

I think Capel's judgement on our guards has been poor, and that includes guards he passed on in high school. And that also includes Horton, who Capel thought was a superstar from practices.

Sometimes I wonder if I might be just the right mixture of half-knowledgeable and naive, because I swear I could just look at guys like Johnson, Femi, Sibande, etc. and know they weren't going to be stars. There's just no fluidity in their shots; they're awkward and hitchy. I'll fully admit that I thought Johnson would still be a good player in spite of it, because I liked other parts of his game, but I certainly never viewed him as a quality NBA guy. Same with Horton - like who could have ever thought he is anything more than a spot shooter? And I've battled people for years over Sibande. The dude shoots like I imagine Luigi would from Mario 2. I know he had like two good games at the end of the season a few years back, but can't people just look at how awkwardly he plays as discern that he's not that good?

I mean, I guess you could say the same about Krauser, Fields, Gilbert Brown, Sam Young, etc. being untraditionally awkward, so maybe it's just some of that stuff people have in the back of their minds. But some of this seems like paralysis by analysis when a simple eye test would suffice.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

That’s the other thing I meant to mention but Vader went into greater depth. Of all the guys who left here nobody really blew up or was even that notable. X is about the same guy. Toney probably progressed some but my guess is the same would have happened here had he stayed.

It is astounding how poor the guard play has been here under Capel. A pretty big giant whiff.

 

[PittPharm2002]

P

I don’t agree. If we want a good team, and I’m not even suggesting the glory years, we need better. He played because someone had to.

He left St Bonaventure for UMass Lowell. Looks like he’s doing well there and it’s probably about where he belongs.

you can disagree
Doesn’t change my opinion that he was a decent bench guy
He could eat up minutes , rebound , and had good enough hands to contribute a few points
He’s the kind of guy all programs have .
If you’re going to gamble on depth it should be at pf/c

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

That’s the other thing I meant to mention but Vader went into greater depth. Of all the guys who left here nobody really blew up or was even that notable. X is about the same guy. Toney probably progressed some but my guess is the same would have happened here had he stayed.

It is astounding how poor the guard play has been here under Capel. A pretty big giant whiff.

I don't know... you did see that Horton dropped 14 on an 0-3 FSU team, right?

 

[Pitt AKC]

P

you can disagree
Doesn’t change my opinion that he was a decent bench guy
He could eat up minutes , rebound , and had good enough hands to contribute a few points
He’s the kind of guy all programs have .
If you’re going to gamble on depth it should be at pf/c

Eat up minutes. Sure did. His ZERO points and ZERO rebounds in 23 minutes vs Miami in his last game summed up his abilities to play at this level.

Every P5 program does indeed have someone like AKC, they are called Walk Ons.. Only under Capel are they called starters..

 

[rockypanther]

That’s the other thing I meant to mention but Vader went into greater depth. Of all the guys who left here nobody really blew up or was even that notable. X is about the same guy. Toney probably progressed some but my guess is the same would have happened here had he stayed.

It is astounding how poor the guard play has been here under Capel. A pretty big giant whiff.

Toney was decent last year.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Eat up minutes. Sure did. His ZERO points and ZERO rebounds in 23 minutes vs Miami in his last game summed up his abilities to play at this level.

Every P5 program does indeed have someone like AKC, they are called Walk Ons.. Only under Capel are they called starters..

I agree with what was said about the gamble part. No question. If a guy develops, great. If not that’s fine too. If he gets in some games and has a good game here and there, good. I just don’t think he was ok in terms of being reliably ok. And from where he ended up I think it’s safe to say he was never gonna be. No problem taking a shot and with him being on the roster.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Toney was decent last year.

No doubt. Just saying it wasn’t like he left and then really blew up. I think it’s more likely than not he’d have had the same type of year here had he stayed. Good player, was definitely a loss with him leaving.

 

[rockypanther]

No doubt. Just saying it wasn’t like he left and then really blew up. I think it’s more likely than not he’d have had the same type of year here had he stayed. Good player, was definitely a loss with him leaving.

He was a good energy player last year. Which is what he is.

 

[Vader_Storm]

No doubt. Just saying it wasn’t like he left and then really blew up. I think it’s more likely than not he’d have had the same type of year here had he stayed. Good player, was definitely a loss with him leaving.

He was big time before he left for Arkansas, started, and made the Elite 8 at Arkansas. His efficiency metrics at Pitt really took off in ACC play and he easily would have started on some of our other powerhouse teams back in the day at Pitt

His scoring and rebound numbers were also strong at Pitt for being an undersized PF. Capel gets plenty of blame for other things. But besides being somewhat of a headcase, Toney was a stud at the college level.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

He was a good energy player last year. Which is what he is.

My other point was that he is the only guy who left that may have showed any progress. He seemed to improve every year. Everyone else that left didn’t do anything. XJ was about a push. No better no worse. Same guy. So it’s not like there was some big exodus of talent.

And as much of a head case as he seems to be XJ may have been a loss on the court. Simply because of what came in behind him.

 

[Vader_Storm]

He was big time before he left for Arkansas, started, and made the Elite 8 at Arkansas. His efficiency metrics at Pitt really took off in ACC play and he easily would have started on some of our other powerhouse teams back in the day at Pitt

His scoring and rebound numbers were also strong at Pitt for being an undersized PF. Capel gets plenty of blame for other things. But besides being somewhat of a headcase, Toney was a stud at the college level.

Also, and this is important. Toney had the best EYBL stats between him, Mcogwens, and X. And Toney ended up the best college player of the 3. Toney actually improved his shooting quite a bit. He was developed at Pitt and further developed at Arkansas.

 

[PittPharm2002]

He was big time before he left for Arkansas, started, and made the Elite 8 at Arkansas. His efficiency metrics at Pitt really took off in ACC play and he easily would have started on some of our other powerhouse teams back in the day at Pitt

His scoring and rebound numbers were also strong at Pitt for being an undersized PF. Capel gets plenty of blame for other things. But besides being somewhat of a headcase, Toney was a stud at the college level.

The headcase is only based on internet gossip , which is a silly thing to base a label on

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Although you can see what 1 quality guard gives a team, aka Mintz at Syracuse.

A loss to Colgate. At home. By 12 points. In a game that wasn't as close as the final score indicates.

 

[Pitt5593]

He was big time before he left for Arkansas, started, and made the Elite 8 at Arkansas. His efficiency metrics at Pitt really took off in ACC play and he easily would have started on some of our other powerhouse teams back in the day at Pitt

His scoring and rebound numbers were also strong at Pitt for being an undersized PF. Capel gets plenty of blame for other things. But besides being somewhat of a headcase, Toney was a stud at the college level.

Where is Toney playing now?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Where is Toney playing now?

Lakeland Magic

 

[Brian Brush Fan]

He's proven he can get frontcourt players or undersized power forwards that are good and can play.

Hugley
Champ
Toney
Hinson
Gueye
Twins (although they have a lot to prove)
AKC was ok

That's a real decent batch of bigs from where we were under Stallings.



Its the guards / guard decommits / guard development that is underwhelming. Especially point guards. Our guard play this year is currently a train wreck.


We could be a real decent team with a healthy Hugley with a "true point guard" with 2 other quality guards that can shoot / pass / play defense and stop dribble penetration.


From what I have seen through 4 games this year, the trio of Dior / Lowe / Carrington would most likely start over our current batch of players. I really like our incoming recruiting class, but Im really on the fence if those quality guards are worth it over Capel trying to figure things out. Although you can see what 1 quality guard gives a team, aka Mintz at Syracuse.

ORTG?

 

[Vader_Storm]

ORTG?

Since you asked,

Hinson-112
Hugley-110
Federicko-115
Burton-97


Diaz Graham-90
Elliot-89


Cummings-81


Santos-77


Sibande-49

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Since you asked,

Hinson-112
Hugley-110
Federicko-115
Burton-97


Diaz Graham-90
Elliot-89


Cummings-81


Santos-77


Sibande-49

Lol

 

[PittPharm2002]

Lol

It’s just stats
Hell we know our terrible defense is the real issue

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Lol

Some day people will probably understand sample sizes. I mean not today obviously, but maybe some day.

Hugley has played one game, 22 minutes. His offensive rating is borderline meaningless. Federiko gets used so little on offense that on Pomeroy he is in the category of players who offensively are "nearly invisible".

Of the guys who use at least 16% of the possessions on offense so far this season, and excluding people who have only played one game, we have one guy with a good offensive rating, one guy with a mediocre one, and six guys ranging from bad to pathetic. Which is exactly what we have seen one the court.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Some day people will probably understand sample sizes. I mean not today obviously, but maybe some day.

Hugley has played one game, 22 minutes. His offensive rating is borderline meaningless. Federiko gets used so little on offense that on Pomeroy he is in the category of players who offensively are "nearly invisible".

Of the guys who use at least 16% of the possessions on offense so far this season, and excluding people who have only played one game, we have one guy with a good offensive rating, one guy with a mediocre one, and six guys ranging from bad to pathetic. Which is exactly what we have seen one the court.

I understand the sample sizes just fine. I provided what the person asked for.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I understand the sample sizes just fine. I provided what the person asked for.

Well you frequently quote single game offensive ratings as if they have some sort of real meaning in the grand scheme of things, so forgive me if it doesn't seem that way.

I mean you did it with Mintz just the other day.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Well you frequently quote single game offensive ratings as if they have some sort of real meaning in the grand scheme of things, so forgive me if it doesn't seem that way.

I mean you did it with Mintz just the other day.

For fairness, how many freshmen can you name at Pitt in the last 25 years that came out the gate and scored 18 points per game in the first 2 games?


Through 3 games, Mintz is averaging 18 points per game, 3.3 assists per game on 58% shooting. Those stats through 3 games blow away any freshmen I can remember in this program through 3 games in the last 25 years, especially from any guard we had.



My point was: I hyped up Mintz and Dunn from the summer league play and those were the 2 guys I wanted the most. One guy was a decommit and the other we finished in the final 2. And look what they are doing now.

This is in regards to freshmen impact when you recruit actual talent at the guard position that tore up the EYBL and summer leagues.