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has Pitt in his final 6
The unofficals he has taken (in order) are NC St, Xavier and Pitt
His other 3 finalists: Miami, Northwestern and Princeton.
Decent for the ACC?This time last year we had a run of pretty solid top 125ish type kids who they were in on and the coaches felt good about, but it ended up being a brutal series of let downs.
That said, the last two commitments (the late juco add aside) have been Stewart and Golden, who are pretty solid adds.
Again, I hold out that slim hope that the retool of the staff will improve the results in recruiting.
Keeping mind that when the dust settles I probably will be let down, but my hope is to get Forrester with the JUCO guards, that would be a decent class.
The P5 coaches, who are literally paid to do this, do not agree.Quit bashing kids who you've never seen play. Some of the players coming in are probably pretty good. If you want to say we probably won't have enough then fine.
This time last year we had a run of pretty solid top 125ish type kids who they were in on and the coaches felt good about, but it ended up being a brutal series of let downs.
That said, the last two commitments (the late juco add aside) have been Stewart and Golden, who are pretty solid adds.
Again, I hold out that slim hope that the retool of the staff will improve the results in recruiting.
Keeping mind that when the dust settles I probably will be let down, but my hope is to get Forrester with the JUCO guards, that would be a decent class.
Good. We have you on record saying all of our incoming players stink.The P5 coaches, who are literally paid to do this, do not agree.
I didn't say all of them stink. You questioned people who have "never seen them play" making judgements. Well, the people who get paid to evaluate them and get the best ones saw almost all of them and said, "Thanks, but no thanks." That is a far cry from them saying they are going to be "pretty good", too. Save a couple, practically no one thought they were even worth a flier or a scholarship risk.Good. We have you on record saying all of our incoming players stink.
And I said SOME of the players coming might be pretty good. To which you said the P5 coaches do not agree.I didn't say all of them stink. You questioned people who have "never seen them play" making judgements. Well, the people who get paid to evaluate them and get the best ones saw almost all of them and said, "Thanks, but no thanks." That is a far cry from them saying they are going to be "pretty good", too. Save a couple, practically no one thought they were even worth a flier or a scholarship risk.
They are from tge College of Southern Idaho. PG Dayna kingsby and SG Charles Jones Jr.Jeff, I must have missed this....
Who are the juco guards we have a good shot with?
IMO decent for the ACC. With good coaching and things break right, could push top 5 ...Decent for the ACC?
They are from tge College of Southern Idaho. PG Dayna kingsby and SG Charles Jones Jr.
Kingsby is a really athletic pg, Jones a pretty solid scorer with good size.
They both have a mix of one or two high major, one or two mid/low and a few lower D1 offers.
Wait, you think that class could be top 5? With the two JUCO Gs? Oh my. At least you are drinking the good stuff.IMO decent for the ACC. With good coaching and things break right, could push top 5 ...
Which would be true, based on their offers.And I said SOME of the players coming might be pretty good. To which you said the P5 coaches do not agree.
Wait, you think that class could be top 5? With the two JUCO Gs? Oh my. At least you are drinking the good stuff.
I wasn't saying that it would be a top five class.
I was saying with good good coaching and things falling into place they could be part of a team that could maybe sneak into the top five of the standings in the ACC.
Like if they land some 5 stars in 2019 and a new HC? Yeah, I'd agree. Otherwise, there seems to be no chance of that. I don't see any (even relatively realistic) scenario Pitt is top 5 in the ACC in 2018-19 or 19-20.I wasn't saying that it would be a top five class.
I was saying with good good coaching and things falling into place they could be part of a team that could maybe sneak into the top five of the standings in the ACC.
Otherwise, there seems to be no chance of that. I don't see any (even relatively realistic) scenario Pitt is top 5 in the ACC in 2018-19 or 19-20.
At this point (early in the rebuild), I think we need to get to 7 or 8 first.
But a team of: - Is a team that I agree, could develop into something.
Carr, ???
Stewart, Ellison
Stevenson - ???
Golden, ???
Llegomah, Brown
Plus - George as an energy guy
Gary -- I sincerely respect and admire your disposition looking at the potential you see when looking at the players joining the Panthers. I absolutely hope you (and ultimately all fans) are rewarded for your optimism, even if I don't share it.
I wouldn't say that I have specific issues with his coaching acumen, at least not at the point. But I do not believe we have nearly the talent and potential needed to start moving this team back toward getting in the tournament on a regular basis.I feel the same way, DT. I do respect Gary's optimism and hope for this season and for this group of players. They will certainly need all the support they can get. But I just don't share his optimism. Not until we have a coach who can coach them.
HailToPitt1985, I will tell you what. I will accept your judgement as to if we have started a successful rebuild.I feel the same way, DT. I do respect Gary's optimism and hope for this season and for this group of players. They will certainly need all the support they can get. But I just don't share his optimism. Not until we have a coach who can coach them.
HailToPitt1985, I will tell you what. I will accept your judgement as to if we have started a successful rebuild.
After 10 games (or more if you decide more are needed), you can tell me if YOU think Carr/Stewart/Davis are upgrades over Milligan/Wilson/Kithcart. You can tell me if Peace, Samson. Brown and Chuckwuka are upgrades over Nix/Manigault. You can tell me if you think Frame/Steveson can play or not You can tell me if recruiting has improved or not. We will both have to wait on Ellison and Golden.
I will readily accept YOUR judgement as to if these players have a future or not.
I will also accept your judgement about team chemistry. Is it better minus Young, Artis and Dixon? Do we play smarter, harder and as a team?
Fair?
I certainly am not optimistic about results next season. We will be fielding a freshman team against the other teams varsity.
I am optimistic about how what I laid out above will turn out.
HailToPitt1985, I will tell you what. I will accept your judgement as to if we have started a successful rebuild.
After 10 games (or more if you decide more are needed), you can tell me if YOU think Carr/Stewart/Davis are upgrades over Milligan/Wilson/Kithcart. You can tell me if Peace, Samson. Brown and Chuckwuka are upgrades over Nix/Manigault. You can tell me if you think Frame/Steveson can play or not You can tell me if recruiting has improved or not. We will both have to wait on Ellison and Golden.
I will readily accept YOUR judgement as to if these players have a future or not.
I will also accept your judgement about team chemistry. Is it better minus Young, Artis and Dixon? Do we play smarter, harder and as a team?
Fair?
I certainly am not optimistic about results next season. We will be fielding a freshman team against the other teams varsity.
I am optimistic about how what I laid out above will turn out.
I think you present a reasonable yardstick.To join this part of the conversation, allow me to add how I will judge ...
More or less, little of what happens this year will help me judge where we are going. It's just going to be bad.
The following year is a different story. I won't try to judge individually if I think players have a future or not. And judging if we play smarter or harder is so very difficult.
I believe wins and losses will truly answer all of these question.
Ralph Willard made the NIT in year three. Ben Howland made the NIT in year two.
I'm not saying that I think Stallings needs to make the NIT in year three (2018-2019). But I would like to see a season with clear growth in regards to winning and losing. Something like 7 ACC wins in his third year would do that trick. If we have that kind of season in year three, I believe that would demonstrate that the individual players do have a future.
If we have this kind of season in 18-19, we will have several players who will become Sophomores, Juniors and Seniors in 2019-2020 who will look like they are primed to get a little older, and a little better. That will be a group that should be ready to get back in the tournament (or better) in 19-20.
These are modest goals which should be attainable.
If 18-19 is something like another 4 win ACC season, it will be obvious to me (as it should be to everyone), that the players Stallings has recruited will not move the program forward.
I guess DT I'm not sure why we wouldn't have the expectation that at a minimum we should make the NIT by year three? That's still a far cry from making the actual tourney. I do agree that wins and losses are the ultimate measuring stick.To join this part of the conversation, allow me to add how I will judge ...
More or less, little of what happens this year will help me judge where we are going. It's just going to be bad.
The following year is a different story. I won't try to judge individually if I think players have a future or not. And judging if we play smarter or harder is so very difficult.
I believe wins and losses will truly answer all of these question.
Ralph Willard made the NIT in year three. Ben Howland made the NIT in year two.
I'm not saying that I think Stallings needs to make the NIT in year three (2018-2019). But I would like to see a season with clear growth in regards to winning and losing. Something like 7 ACC wins in his third year would do that trick. If we have that kind of season in year three, I believe that would demonstrate that the individual players do have a future.
If we have this kind of season in 18-19, we will have several players who will become Sophomores, Juniors and Seniors in 2019-2020 who will look like they are primed to get a little older, and a little better. That will be a group that should be ready to get back in the tournament (or better) in 19-20.
These are modest goals which should be attainable.
If 18-19 is something like another 4 win ACC season, it will be obvious to me (as it should be to everyone), that the players Stallings has recruited will not move the program forward.
I guess DT I'm not sure why we wouldn't have the expectation that at a minimum we should make the NIT by year three? That's still a far cry from making the actual tourney. I do agree that wins and losses are the ultimate measuring stick.
2012-2016 was the beginning of the end to the end of the end.I don't think anything short of a miracle NCAA berth in 2019 would give me any hope that Stallings should be retained.
NIT in year 3 and an 8-12 seed in year 4 is enough for all of you? That's worse than 2012-2016.
2012-2016 was the beginning of the end to the end of the end.
2017 is the beginning of the beginning
You do get the difference?
I don't get the difference.2012-2016 was the beginning of the end to the end of the end.
2017 is the beginning of the beginning
You do get the difference?
The Mike Young, J.Artis and Jamie Dixon ACC recruiting era did the program no favors. In fact, it inflicted a real toll. It is the reason why the program is where it is today. The program was left without a foundation.
Thankfully that has ended.
I hope we are on our way up. I accept DT's yardstick as a reasonable expectation.
I guess a point I'm trying to make -- which is likely close to your point -- is that I absolutely don't want to see incremental progress in 2018-2019. I want to see significant progress. How that is actually defined -- NIT or whatever -- I can't say for sure at the moment. I guess I can say that 13th place in the ACC in 2018-2019 is absolutely not what I would consider significant.There is no difference. Stallings is being paid hansomely, just like every other coach in the conference. I don't care if he demonstrates incremental progress in somehow eventually moving us up to 13th place.
HailToPitt1985, I will tell you what. I will accept your judgement as to if we have started a successful rebuild.
After 10 games (or more if you decide more are needed), you can tell me if YOU think Carr/Stewart/Davis are upgrades over Milligan/Wilson/Kithcart. You can tell me if Peace, Samson. Brown and Chuckwuka are upgrades over Nix/Manigault. You can tell me if you think Frame/Steveson can play or not You can tell me if recruiting has improved or not. We will both have to wait on Ellison and Golden.
I will readily accept YOUR judgement as to if these players have a future or not.
I will also accept your judgement about team chemistry. Is it better minus Young, Artis and Dixon? Do we play smarter, harder and as a team?
Fair?
I certainly am not optimistic about results next season. We will be fielding a freshman team against the other teams varsity.
I am optimistic about how what I laid out above will turn out.
Yes - the end of the end was and will Ben more successful than the beginning of the beginning2012-2016 was the beginning of the end to the end of the end.
2017 is the beginning of the beginning
You do get the difference?
The Mike Young, J.Artis and Jamie Dixon ACC recruiting era did the program no favors. In fact, it inflicted a real toll. It is the reason why the program is where it is today. The program was left without a foundation.
Thankfully that has ended.
I hope we are on our way up. I accept DT's yardstick as a reasonable expectation.
How about the end of the beginning?Yes - the end of the end was and will Ben more successful than the beginning of the beginning
I guess a point I'm trying to make -- which is likely close to your point -- is that I absolutely don't want to see incremental progress in 2018-2019. I want to see significant progress. How that is actually defined -- NIT or whatever -- I can't say for sure at the moment. I guess I can say that 13th place in the ACC in 2018-2019 is absolutely not what I would consider significant.
What I look at is improvement, progress throughout the year, and significant improvement by the end of the ACC season. If Stallings can improve this team, and he has demonstrated he can't do that with the previous veteran team, then expecting an NIT bid in year 3 is not out of the question. Possibly and NCAA bid if he's really as good of a coach as some on here seem to think he is.