Sean Miller Restless On The Move?

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

A vey good friend from Beaver Valley that has lived in Tucson for over 30 years has heard Sean Miller is a tad restless there and may make a move in the future should an opportunity arise. Just a rumor but from a good reliable source that knows the UA Sports Programs. No other details given and leave it to others to think about that know Basketball far more!

 

[GomerTV]

A vey good friend from Beaver Valley that has lived in Tucson for over 30 years has heard Sean Miller is a tad restless there and may make a move in the future should an opportunity arise. Just a rumor but from a good reliable source that knows the UA Sports Programs. No other details given and leave it to others to think about that know Basketball far more!

Hope you posted this on UA's site where people would care...and ignore

 

[KiwiJeff]

Hope you posted this on UA's site where people would care...and ignore

Yeah, not a very bold prediction. All coaches leave eventually. I predict Calipari, Boeheim and Coach K will not be coaching their respective schools in 10 years. I'll throw in Archie Bradley too.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

If he leaves they should just get Dixon and they won't miss a beat.

A coach who recruits to the level of his program, values defense and rebounding, has had tough luck in March. Sean Miller and Dixon are essential carbon copies of each other, with Dixon having a slightly better offensive system.

 

[Saboteur]

A vey good friend from Beaver Valley that has lived in Tucson for over 30 years has heard Sean Miller is a tad restless there and may make a move in the future should an opportunity arise. Just a rumor but from a good reliable source that knows the UA Sports Programs. No other details given and leave it to others to think about that know Basketball far more!

I hope his name is JoJo and he's left his home for some California grass.
Kidding aside, SM is gonna jump first chance he gets. He almost always has.

 

[rgross83]

Facts - SM has been a head coach for 11 years at 2 different institutions of higher learning, 5 at Xavier and 6 at AZU. He has taken 4 teams to the elite 8 and 2 additional teams to the sweet 16. In 5 years at Xavier he had an elite 8 and a sweet 16. During his 12 years, JD has 1 elite 8 and 2 sweet 16 appearances.

According to Rivals, SM's recruiting classes the past 5 years have been ranked 2, 4, 4, 3, and 4 (Far better than his predecessor at AZU did and far better than JD ever did).

I do no feel like doing the research, but I am pretty sure that during SM's years at Xavier of the A10, he out-recruited Pitt of the Big East. Obviously, he has bettered Pitt by a wide margin during his AZU tenure.

These are the facts, but please don't let them get in the way of your narrative.

 

[ameoba defense]

Facts - SM has been a head coach for 11 years at 2 different institutions of higher learning, 5 at Xavier and 6 at AZU. He has taken 4 teams to the elite 8 and 2 additional teams to the sweet 16. In 5 years at Xavier he had an elite 8 and a sweet 16. During his 12 years, JD has 1 elite 8 and 2 sweet 16 appearances.

According to Rivals, SM's recruiting classes the past 5 years have been ranked 2, 4, 4, 3, and 4 (Far better than his predecessor at AZU did and far better than JD ever did).

I do no feel like doing the research, but I am pretty sure that during SM's years at Xavier of the A10, he out-recruited Pitt of the Big East. Obviously, he has bettered Pitt by a wide margin during his AZU tenure.

These are the facts, but please don't let them get in the way of your narrative.

Well, UA (not AZU) has been an elite program for quite some time. I would guess that Dixon would recruit better at UA than he does at Pitt.

 

[Cap pitt]

Well, UA (not AZU) has been an elite program for quite some time. I would guess that Dixon would recruit better at UA than he does at Pitt.

I would like to find out, how about an even trade

 

[magadog]

Start a buyout fund for Dixon & a fund to buyout fund for tthe money needed to land to Miller. If you are relying on someone else's money, then you should temper your thoughts.

l will support whomever is the coach, but I'll also use your short leash for any coach that doesn't deliver several sweet sixteens, a couple of elite eights & a final four,

 

[Cap pitt]

Start a buyout fund for Dixon & a fund to buyout fund for tthe money needed to land to Miller. If you are relying on someone else's money, then you should temper your thoughts.

l will support whomever is the coach, but I'll also use your short leash for any coach that doesn't deliver several sweet sixteens, a couple of elite eights & a final four,

12 years is not a short leash, and in those 12 years, no further than only 1 elite 8

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Drop the leash drop the leash....

 

[Pittbaseball11]

I do no feel like doing the research, but I am pretty sure that during SM's years at Xavier of the A10, he out-recruited Pitt of the Big East. Obviously, he has bettered Pitt by a wide margin during his AZU tenure.

Recruit Rankings by RSCI (which averages all recruiting site rankings to come up with a composite ranking):

Pitt - 3 Top 50's, another 6 Top 100's, another 4 Top 150's

Xavier - 0 Top 50's, 2 Top 100's, another 2 Top 150's.

This despite taking partial qualifiers. He did okay with transfers, although Xavier is a top mid-major so you'd expect as much.

He got his ass kicked at Xavier. Like 95% of coaches out there, he recruits to the level of his program.

Sorry for messing up the "facts" that were so confidently stated.

Link to RSCI Database

 

[ameoba defense]

When was the last time a coach at an elite program like UA dropped down without being fired? If Miller leaves UA, it will be for either a blueblood, or the NBA. The Miller that Pitt could get is Archie, and that will only be true as long as he's at Dayton. When he leaves Dayton, it will be for an elite program, one that he won't leave to come to Pitt. He's not going to leave Dayton for a garbage P5 program unless he's crazy. If I'm Miller, it will take a Pitt level program at the very least, to entice me to make the move from Dayton.

 

[jaemoe76]

Facts - SM has been a head coach for 11 years at 2 different institutions of higher learning, 5 at Xavier and 6 at AZU. He has taken 4 teams to the elite 8 and 2 additional teams to the sweet 16. In 5 years at Xavier he had an elite 8 and a sweet 16. During his 12 years, JD has 1 elite 8 and 2 sweet 16 appearances.

According to Rivals, SM's recruiting classes the past 5 years have been ranked 2, 4, 4, 3, and 4 (Far better than his predecessor at AZU did and far better than JD ever did).

I do no feel like doing the research, but I am pretty sure that during SM's years at Xavier of the A10, he out-recruited Pitt of the Big East. Obviously, he has bettered Pitt by a wide margin during his AZU tenure.

These are the facts, but please don't let them get in the way of your narrative.

dont let facts get in the way of the Dixon apologists.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

dont let facts get in the way of the Dixon apologists.

Also probably smart to not let opinions get presented as facts while Pittsburgh flexes its provincial muscles and overly hypes up a perceived native son.

 

[KiwiJeff]

I have a strong opinion based on on nothing, but clearly anyone who provides data that refutes my strongly held opinion is an apologist. No holes in that argument.

 

[magadog]

12 years is not a short leash, and in those 12 years, no further than only 1 elite 8

You have shown a lot of restraint in waiting 12 years for calling for Dixon's head. If the next coach will be an upgrade, why shouldn't he have shorter leash than 12 years?

 

[HailToPitt1985]

A shorter leash for the next coach, should Dixon ever leave, would be appropriate. If we're after Dixon's head for giving Pitt one of the best programs in the country, in spite of not advancing very far in March, then the next head coach better get us to a Final 4 in his first 2 years of coaching or he's toast. The assumption by everyone is that the next coach would be an upgrade. After all, he will have an already strong program and base to build upon. If he can't do something with that, he should be run out of town quickly.

 

[Cap pitt]

You have shown a lot of restraint in waiting 12 years for calling for Dixon's head. If the next coach will be an upgrade, why shouldn't he have shorter leash than 12 years?

I think a 5 year leash is appropriate, and if a new guy can't get the program jump started in the right direction, Next!!! The university has to get serious about basketball too, and a commitment to winning championships. Not happy with just winning 20 games a year no matter who you play

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I think a 5 year leash is appropriate, and if a new guy can't get the program jump started in the right direction, Next!!! The university has to get serious about basketball too, and a commitment to winning championships. Not happy with just winning 20 games a year no matter who you play

Good point, because it's just that easy.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Good point, because it's just that easy.

I find it curious that a person who demands Dixon's head because he has no Final Fours wants a coach who also has no Final Fours, in spite of more support and better players that Arizona attracts. Wouldn't that make him a bigger failure, from that perspective?

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I find it curious that a person who demands Dixon's head because he has no Final Fours wants a coach who also has no Final Fours, in spite of more support and better players that Arizona attracts. Wouldn't that make him a bigger failure, from that perspective?

Just as curious is why anyone would attempt to use logic with some of these people

 

[magadog]

I think a 5 year leash is appropriate, and if a new guy can't get the program jump started in the right direction, Next!!! The university has to get serious about basketball too, and a commitment to winning championships. Not happy with just winning 20 games a year no matter who you play

Hasn't Pitt already tried this approach?

Dixon has coached half of NCAA tournament appearances since 1981 & won more tournament games than all of Pitt's other coaches combined.

Pitt can go out & hire the next up & coming head coach, but the coach could turn out to be another Evans or Willard. If you can't support Dixon coached teams that made the tournament 2 out of the last 4 years, how are you going to support the team if they make the tournament 4 times in 13 years?

I agree with you that Pitt should invest more $ in the program, but the $ should go towards getting the best staff possible. Kentucky's assistant coaches all made over $375,000 last year.

 

[Cap pitt]

Hasn't Pitt already tried this approach?

Dixon has coached half of NCAA tournament appearances since 1981 & won more tournament games than all of Pitt's other coaches combined.

Pitt can go out & hire the next up & coming head coach, but the coach could turn out to be another Evans or Willard. If you can't support Dixon coached teams that made the tournament 2 out of the last 4 years, how are you going to support the team if they make the tournament 4 times in 13 years?

I agree with you that Pitt should invest more $ in the program, but the $ should go towards getting the best staff possible. Kentucky's assistant coaches all made over $375,000 last year.

I'm all for the university first, no matter who is coaching the basketball team, if JD can turn it around that's great, BUT, if he can't, just sayin, then it's time to make a change, and I'm looking at the last few years and where we've been and also next year and I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, and I hope I'm wrong, but if they do hire a new coach, yea he might do worse then again he might do better, you just never know

 

[TD_6082]

A shorter leash for the next coach, should Dixon ever leave, would be appropriate. If we're after Dixon's head for giving Pitt one of the best programs in the country, in spite of not advancing very far in March, then the next head coach better get us to a Final 4 in his first 2 years of coaching or he's toast. The assumption by everyone is that the next coach would be an upgrade. After all, he will have an already strong program and base to build upon. If he can't do something with that, he should be run out of town quickly.

I'm a big fan of Dixon and he has brought Pitt unprecedented success. I am of the belief that it is totally unfair to even begin to question Jamie's job status for a lack of deep tourney runs, especially given Pitt's overall body of work in that time frame. The Nova game and the Butler game could have very easily went Pitt's way.

That said, the program is no longer one of the best in the country. It is at best, a middle of the pack ACC team that just hopes to be in the mix to get a NCAA bid. It has become stagnant, and the worst part about it is there doesn't seem to be any tangible evidence for optimism that things are going to get better any time soon. Its the last 4 years and concern going forward that is moving Jamie closer and closer to the hot seat.

 

[rgross83]

Also probably smart to not let opinions get presented as facts while Pittsburgh flexes its provincial muscles and overly hypes up a perceived native son.

Perceived native son? Born in Ellwood City, lead Blackhawk to 2 WPIAL title games, winning 1. Started PG for 4 years at the home town college. I believe most people would consider SM a native son, you can drop the "perceived".

If you reread my post, you will clearly see that I distinguished between what was fact (which you chose to ignore) and what was opinion.

You did take the time to do the research and I was wrong with my opinion. However, that also means that although Pitt was kicking Xavier's ass in recruiting during Miller's time at Xavier, SM took his teams (with less talent) to exactly the same number of sweet16s and elite eights as JD did at Pitt.

I have stated that I do not believe that JD is going anywhere. I do not believe that he should be fired now. Through his accomplishments and loyalty to the program, I do believe that he has earned the opportunity to try and right the ship. That doesn't mean that I am going to denigrate other coaches to try and mask Dixon's shortcomings.

I also am not going to call names, degrade an entire city and throw hissy fits if someone has a differing opinion.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

I think Sean Miller is vastly overrated by this board because he's perceived as being part of the Pittsburgh tribe, when he has shown absolutely no interest in, loyalty to, or affection for the city. Were he from Chattanooga, TN, he'd be largely ignored or roundly criticized.

He's geographically from here, but there is no reason for his abilities to be overstated when -- really -- he's done pretty well in some extremely advantageous coaching positions. Arizona and Xavier are programs that were successful before him, and will be (or currently are) successful after him. They're outstanding programs that he's had little to do in establishing.

Xavier has made 24 of the last 28 NCAA Tournaments and went to an Elite Eight the year before he took over, and he was gifted Jordan Crawford as a questionable academic transfer. He did well, but he didn't take a program out of nowhere and make them relevant. Heck, he really didn't even bring them to a better place.

Reading this board, Matta going to an Elite Eight the year before Miller took over should've springboarded Sean to heights never before seen with the Musketeers. Elite Eights are super relevant and March is all that matters, after all.

He is, at best, a wash with Dixon. I have little faith in his ability to recruit at an Arizona level at Pitt -- Xavier has shown he's not a Lavin-type -- and his offense is sloppier and more disjointed than anything Pitt runs. If people are going to pine for an upgrade, then don't point to Miller as an example of one. The fascination with him is one borne of his birthplace being Western Pennsylvania --- nothing more, nothing less. It's amazing how much weight that carries in this region relative to the rest of the country.

 

[rgross83]

I for one, usually do root for the home town heroes. Apparently you don't, that's fine. However, implying that this is unique to or even exaggerated in Pittsburgh, is a fallacy. Personally, I believe that the South in general and the state of Texas particularly is far more apt to blindly support their own than any other place that I have been, including Pittsburgh.

 

[TD_6082]

I think Sean Miller is vastly overrated by this board because he's perceived as being part of the Pittsburgh tribe, when he has shown absolutely no interest in, loyalty to, or affection for the city. Were he from Chattanooga, TN, he'd be largely ignored or roundly criticized.

He's geographically from here, but there is no reason for his abilities to be overstated when -- really -- he's done pretty well in some extremely advantageous coaching positions. Arizona and Xavier are programs that were successful before him, and will be (or currently are) successful after him. They're outstanding programs that he's had little to do in establishing.

Xavier has made 24 of the last 28 NCAA Tournaments and went to an Elite Eight the year before he took over, and he was gifted Jordan Crawford as a questionable academic transfer. He did well, but he didn't take a program out of nowhere and make them relevant. Heck, he really didn't even bring them to a better place.

Reading this board, Matta going to an Elite Eight the year before Miller took over should've springboarded Sean to heights never before seen with the Musketeers. Elite Eights are super relevant and March is all that matters, after all.

He is, at best, a wash with Dixon. I have little faith in his ability to recruit at an Arizona level at Pitt -- Xavier has shown he's not a Lavin-type -- and his offense is sloppier and more disjointed than anything Pitt runs. If people are going to pine for an upgrade, then don't point to Miller as an example of one. The fascination with him is one borne of his birthplace being Western Pennsylvania --- nothing more, nothing less. It's amazing how much weight that carries in this region relative to the rest of the country.

I think you are way off base here. If both Miller and Dixon were to go on the market, Miller would get a lot better offers and could command a lot more money. I'm quite certain of that.

 

[mvk112]

I for one, usually do root for the home town heroes. Apparently you don't, that's fine. However, implying that this is unique to or even exaggerated in Pittsburgh, is a fallacy. Personally, I believe that the South in general and the state of Texas particularly is far more apt to blindly support their own than any other place that I have been, including Pittsburgh.

And yet when it came time to make big time hires, the University of Texas went after a guy from Arkansas to coach football and a guy from Wisconsin to coach basketball. And prior to that, they had a football coach in position for 15 years, from Tennessee, and a basketball coach in place for 17 years or so, from North Carolina.

Every single time a coaching gig comes open for Pitt (football or basketball) or the Steelers, the number 1 priority for most fans is that the coach is from the Western PA area. Just find the best coach out there, whether they are from Western PA or Southern California, or West Texas, or North Dakota.

 

[mvk112]

I think you are way off base here. If both Miller and Dixon were to go on the market, Miller would get a lot better offers and could command a lot more money. I'm quite certain of that.

That's mostly because of where he is at now. Dixon turned down the Arizona job a couple of times, if I recall correctly. Perhaps it was foolish of him to do so, but this is where he wants to be.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

I think you are way off base here. If both Miller and Dixon were to go on the market, Miller would get a lot better offers and could command a lot more money. I'm quite certain of that.

Would depend on circumstance, most likely. If Miller is on the market because he got fired, his value dips. If Dixon takes Pitt to a Final Four and says screw this town, his value goes way up.

Miller, due to his job status, would command the higher price tag now of course. However, I think you're likely talking about 2 coaches in the Top 15-25 of their profession with a lot more similarities than differences.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

I for one, usually do root for the home town heroes. Apparently you don't, that's fine. However, implying that this is unique to or even exaggerated in Pittsburgh, is a fallacy. Personally, I believe that the South in general and the state of Texas particularly is far more apt to blindly support their own than any other place that I have been, including Pittsburgh.

I will say, currently residing in Texas, that there is not nearly as much an attachment to people with even loose roots and connections to the city/state/region/town.

Pittsburgh is very West Virginia-esque in terms of the chip it carries on its shoulder and its attachment to those from the area. Hoopies are probably the only other fanbase I've witnessed who will immediately throw out people connected to the state or university as their desired candidate any time a job comes up or a coaching change is discussed.

 

[TD_6082]

Thats the thing. Miller has his program at a place where they think they can make a deep tourney run almost every year. Dixon has Pitt just hoping to scrap enough to get a tourney bid. Miller is bringing in Top 5 classes. Jamie is really struggling to recruit right now.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Thats the thing. Miller has his program at a place where they think they can make a deep tourney run almost every year. Dixon has Pitt just hoping to scrap enough to get a tourney bid. Miller is bringing in Top 5 classes. Jamie is really struggling to recruit right now.

Sure, but does anybody doubt that a coach of equivalent abilities couldn't do that at Arizona? That's one of the premiere programs in the country and is arguably the pre-eminent program in a region with a ton of talent to supply and very little regional demand.

Miller didn't light the world on fire as a recruiter at Xavier. He got good results, but didn't really build off of what Matta or Prosser or Gillen did in terms of Ws and Ls. Xavier is closer to Pitt as a program than Pitt is to Arizona.

We saw what UCLA has done for a guy like Steve Alford, who is/was considered a really poor coach that UCLA had to settle on due to their treatment of Howland. He's recruiting like crazy.

It's not an apples to apples comparison. A top 15-25 type coach is going to get different results at a blue blood than he is at a place like Pitt (especially).

 

[TD_6082]

Its hard to say. Zona went to hell in a handbasket after Lute's bizarre departure.

Alford is far from a poor coach. He had a mediocre tenure at Iowa, but he's been damn good at every other stop.

 

[rgross83]

That's mostly because of where he is at now. Dixon turned down the Arizona job a couple of times, if I recall correctly. Perhaps it was foolish of him to do so, but this is where he wants to be.

When Dixon turned down the Arizona job, Pitt was a perennial top team in the best basketball conference in the land and had major TV exposure in some of the most prolific recruiting markets.

Dixon turned the job down. Miller got the job and then proceeded to start pulling some top talent from the East Coast to Arizona. Do you really think that Dixon could have recruited top East Coast talent to the dessert?

I like Dixon. I think he needs to do a better job adapting to the changes that have occurred in college hoops. But, bottom line, if I were an AD at XYZ University and I had my choice, I would take Miller. Who would you take?

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Arizona had a little turmoil with the Lute transition, sure, but it's still a similar school to Indiana or North Carolina or Kentucky -- even if they hit a rough spot they're still going to be highly relevant and able to handpick their talent once a new coach comes in and preaches whatever it is he chooses to preach. It's also why, if you fail at a school like that, you see guys take a large step down. It's tough to fail at those jobs.

Perhaps Alford will prove people wrong. He's been okay at UCLA so far. But, it wasn't regarded as a strong hire at the time. Lots of thought that they made a big mistake in firing Howland if that's who they were going to get, as opposed to a guy like Few, Smart, or Marshall.

 

[rgross83]

Sure, but does anybody doubt that a coach of equivalent abilities couldn't do that at Arizona? That's one of the premiere programs in the country and is arguably the pre-eminent program in a region with a ton of talent to supply and very little regional demand.

Miller didn't light the world on fire as a recruiter at Xavier. He got good results, but didn't really build off of what Matta or Prosser or Gillen did in terms of Ws and Ls. Xavier is closer to Pitt as a program than Pitt is to Arizona.

We saw what UCLA has done for a guy like Steve Alford, who is/was considered a really poor coach that UCLA had to settle on due to their treatment of Howland. He's recruiting like crazy.

It's not an apples to apples comparison. A top 15-25 type coach is going to get different results at a blue blood than he is at a place like Pitt (especially).

Arizona is NOT a blue blood program in my opinion. They had a nice run under Lute, but were never a UCLA, NC, or DUKE.

Do you realize that 4 of the top 6 scorers were East Coast kids and 4 of the top 6 rebounders were East Coast Kids. It doesn't seem that the "ton of regional talent" you speak of helped him much.

MY OPINION - I do not recall Arizona being a recruiting factor on many of the Pitt targets on the East Coast until Miller got there.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

I think at minimum I'd consider them to be in that group of programs right below Duke/UNC/Kansas. So you're talking Cuse, Louisville, Michigan State level. Those programs are still getting first pick of kids. Lute's "little run" spanned 24 years and included 4 Final Fours, a National Championship, a "Point Guard U" moniker, and 15 combined Conference and Conference Tournament championships. They're very relevant and, quite honestly, are probably only really noticed or analyzed in Pittsburgh now because of Miller being there.

While Miller was at Xavier, all but 2 of his recruits were from the midwest. Most were from Ohio, then you had one kid from Michigan and one kid from Indiana. Brian Walsh from Moon and a kid from Abington, PA were the only kids east of Ohio he brought in.

Perhaps he's always had fantastic east coast connections and just couldn't get it done with east coast kids at Xavier. More than likely, Arizona insignia on his polo is what's getting him in good with recruits. But even then, how would we know that Dixon doesn't have fantastic east coast connections himself, but is being held back by pitching a middle of the road program (even at their peak) to kids with no connection to the city?

Edit: He also got a kid from Brewster, although Pitt seemed to have better luck in the prep school area than Miller did when he was at Xavier.