Shaka Smart at Texas

[Pitt3Putt]

Watched Texas eke out a win against Tennessee St and found something the announcers said interesting. I think by now everybody knows Smart scrapped his Havoc defense soon after getting to Austin, but I was never fully sure why. I assumed it was because the Rick Barnes guys didn't fit his system, but it sounds like that's not actually the case. Apparently that decision was made due to the belief that highly rated big men didn't want to play in a system like that, and Smart wanted to go and get the highly regarded big guys (like Jarrett Allen and Mo Bamba), so he just abandoned it once he got to Texas.

On one hand, I get it. Everybody gets stars in their eyes. On the other, man, I can't believe he was so willing to scrap that style defense -- especially seeing how WVU's been able to make itself relevant again with a pressing style of play. And, more specifically, I can't believe he was willing to scrap that style of play for highly regarded big men, the most likely type of player to be ineffective in college but still leave after a year.

Smart's tenure there has been somewhat underwhelming given the hype he had and the (in my opinion, misguided) belief that a good coach will turn things around quickly and succeed right away.

In his first year he won just as many games as Rick Barnes did in his final year despite returning nearly the entire roster, which, okay that's fine. Not his guys, and at the time I gave him credit for not trying to force them to play the Havoc defense. But then he followed it up with an 11 win season in his 2nd year and so far this year it's looking like he's going to have another team that can't shoot a lick and is going to rely on a freshman post player to just block shots and keep teams from driving the paint in order to win games. I think Bamba's quite a bit better than Allen as a defender so maybe it'll work, but that team is scary bad offensively even when they have Andrew Jones in there shouldering almost the entire load.

Just strange to me that he would scrap his system in favor of recruiting rankings, at least before he saw his system fail. Andy Enfield scrapped the Dunk City thing at USC, too, which is another reason I always hesitate to assume that some hotshot, innovate young coach will be able to reinvent the wheel at the P5 level.

I don't know, maybe if Smart sees a little less turnover among his hotshot frosh big men he'll be able to really string something together but right now I'm just scratching my head and wondering if he didn't overthink things like Dixon did starting some time around 2009/10/11.

 

[gary2]

Watched Texas eke out a win against Tennessee St and found something the announcers said interesting. I think by now everybody knows Smart scrapped his Havoc defense soon after getting to Austin, but I was never fully sure why. I assumed it was because the Rick Barnes guys didn't fit his system, but it sounds like that's not actually the case. Apparently that decision was made due to the belief that highly rated big men didn't want to play in a system like that, and Smart wanted to go and get the highly regarded big guys (like Jarrett Allen and Mo Bamba), so he just abandoned it once he got to Texas.

On one hand, I get it. Everybody gets stars in their eyes. On the other, man, I can't believe he was so willing to scrap that style defense -- especially seeing how WVU's been able to make itself relevant again with a pressing style of play. And, more specifically, I can't believe he was willing to scrap that style of play for highly regarded big men, the most likely type of player to be ineffective in college but still leave after a year.

Smart's tenure there has been somewhat underwhelming given the hype he had and the (in my opinion, misguided) belief that a good coach will turn things around quickly and succeed right away.

In his first year he won just as many games as Rick Barnes did in his final year despite returning nearly the entire roster, which, okay that's fine. Not his guys, and at the time I gave him credit for not trying to force them to play the Havoc defense. But then he followed it up with an 11 win season in his 2nd year and so far this year it's looking like he's going to have another team that can't shoot a lick and is going to rely on a freshman post player to just block shots and keep teams from driving the paint in order to win games. I think Bamba's quite a bit better than Allen as a defender so maybe it'll work, but that team is scary bad offensively.

Just strange to me that he would scrap his system in favor of recruiting rankings, at least before he saw his system fail. Andy Enfield scrapped the Dunk City thing at USC, too, which is another reason I always hesitate to assume that some hotshot, innovate young coach will be able to reinvent the wheel at the P5 level.

I don't know, maybe if Smart sees a little less turnover among his hotshot frosh big men he'll be able to really string something together but right now I'm just scratching my head and wondering if he didn't overthink things like Dixon did starting some time around 2009/10/11.

Interesting observations.

Sometimes you have to change who you are to deal with the situation. I always felt that any coach that tried to play something other than a half court game in the Old Big East was destined to fail.

No matter the teams or the coaches, the last 5 minutes of those games always ended in half court wars.

 

[BFo8]

Watched Texas eke out a win against Tennessee St and found something the announcers said interesting. I think by now everybody knows Smart scrapped his Havoc defense soon after getting to Austin, but I was never fully sure why. I assumed it was because the Rick Barnes guys didn't fit his system, but it sounds like that's not actually the case. Apparently that decision was made due to the belief that highly rated big men didn't want to play in a system like that, and Smart wanted to go and get the highly regarded big guys (like Jarrett Allen and Mo Bamba), so he just abandoned it once he got to Texas.

On one hand, I get it. Everybody gets stars in their eyes. On the other, man, I can't believe he was so willing to scrap that style defense -- especially seeing how WVU's been able to make itself relevant again with a pressing style of play. And, more specifically, I can't believe he was willing to scrap that style of play for highly regarded big men, the most likely type of player to be ineffective in college but still leave after a year.

Smart's tenure there has been somewhat underwhelming given the hype he had and the (in my opinion, misguided) belief that a good coach will turn things around quickly and succeed right away.

In his first year he won just as many games as Rick Barnes did in his final year despite returning nearly the entire roster, which, okay that's fine. Not his guys, and at the time I gave him credit for not trying to force them to play the Havoc defense. But then he followed it up with an 11 win season in his 2nd year and so far this year it's looking like he's going to have another team that can't shoot a lick and is going to rely on a freshman post player to just block shots and keep teams from driving the paint in order to win games. I think Bamba's quite a bit better than Allen as a defender so maybe it'll work, but that team is scary bad offensively even when they have Andrew Jones in there shouldering almost the entire load.

Just strange to me that he would scrap his system in favor of recruiting rankings, at least before he saw his system fail. Andy Enfield scrapped the Dunk City thing at USC, too, which is another reason I always hesitate to assume that some hotshot, innovate young coach will be able to reinvent the wheel at the P5 level.

I don't know, maybe if Smart sees a little less turnover among his hotshot frosh big men he'll be able to really string something together but right now I'm just scratching my head and wondering if he didn't overthink things like Dixon did starting some time around 2009/10/11.

Agree with a lot of this, to me Shaka has been a disappointment thus far. He had a lot going for him coming in, Texas is always going to recruit very well and the guy he was replacing in Barnes was one of the worst gameday coaches in the country. I blame him almost entirely for their struggles, his reputation was so good that he was able to sit back and basically choose whatever job he wanted. There is no reason for him to change what had been working for him.

Archie Miller is another story, Indiana’s fans are so nuts and have such an overinflated sense of entitlement that his stay could be a very short one if they don’t right the ship immediately. You cannot get blown out at home by in state schools like ISU and Ft Wayne and survive there. It literally cannot happen.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Interesting observations.

Sometimes you have to change who you are to deal with the situation. I always felt that any coach that tried to play something other than a half court game in the Old Big East was destined to fail.

No matter the teams or the coaches, the last 5 minutes of those games always ended in half court wars.

That's where KS could have done better IMO. He came into a roster of guys that weren't his guys and had a hard time getting things to click. Good coaches should be able to play with the hand they are dealt. Last year was an imperfect roster for sure. He wasn't going to win with that team. They were a bubble team the year before and they had a PG. his team had less. But he should have won a bit more than he did.

 

[gary2]

That's where KS could have done better IMO. He came into a roster of guys that weren't his guys and had a hard time getting things to click. Good coaches should be able to play with the hand they are dealt. Last year was an imperfect roster for sure. He wasn't going to win with that team. They were a bubble team the year before and they had a PG. his team had less. But he should have won a bit more than he did.

I think he did make an adjustments to the hand he was dealt. I don't believe we necessarily played his preferred style of play last season.

One could say the adjustments he made (playing Artis at the point for one) were the wrong ones based on results. (I personally wonder how those adjustments might have looked had Artis not been suspended, Young not broken his face and Luther not been lost for an extended period of time).

 

[NTOP]

Interesting observations.

Sometimes you have to change who you are to deal with the situation. I always felt that any coach that tried to play something other than a half court game in the Old Big East was destined to fail.

No matter the teams or the coaches, the last 5 minutes of those games always ended in half court wars.

I still believe that Dixon's troubles started when he decided to abandon bullyball for sissyball. The old BE was the best, ever. MANLY hoops.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

Watched Texas eke out a win against Tennessee St and found something the announcers said interesting. I think by now everybody knows Smart scrapped his Havoc defense soon after getting to Austin, but I was never fully sure why. I assumed it was because the Rick Barnes guys didn't fit his system, but it sounds like that's not actually the case. Apparently that decision was made due to the belief that highly rated big men didn't want to play in a system like that, and Smart wanted to go and get the highly regarded big guys (like Jarrett Allen and Mo Bamba), so he just abandoned it once he got to Texas.

On one hand, I get it. Everybody gets stars in their eyes. On the other, man, I can't believe he was so willing to scrap that style defense -- especially seeing how WVU's been able to make itself relevant again with a pressing style of play. And, more specifically, I can't believe he was willing to scrap that style of play for highly regarded big men, the most likely type of player to be ineffective in college but still leave after a year.

Smart's tenure there has been somewhat underwhelming given the hype he had and the (in my opinion, misguided) belief that a good coach will turn things around quickly and succeed right away.

In his first year he won just as many games as Rick Barnes did in his final year despite returning nearly the entire roster, which, okay that's fine. Not his guys, and at the time I gave him credit for not trying to force them to play the Havoc defense. But then he followed it up with an 11 win season in his 2nd year and so far this year it's looking like he's going to have another team that can't shoot a lick and is going to rely on a freshman post player to just block shots and keep teams from driving the paint in order to win games. I think Bamba's quite a bit better than Allen as a defender so maybe it'll work, but that team is scary bad offensively even when they have Andrew Jones in there shouldering almost the entire load.

Just strange to me that he would scrap his system in favor of recruiting rankings, at least before he saw his system fail. Andy Enfield scrapped the Dunk City thing at USC, too, which is another reason I always hesitate to assume that some hotshot, innovate young coach will be able to reinvent the wheel at the P5 level.

I don't know, maybe if Smart sees a little less turnover among his hotshot frosh big men he'll be able to really string something together but right now I'm just scratching my head and wondering if he didn't overthink things like Dixon did starting some time around 2009/10/11.

Agree with a lot of this, to me Shaka has been a disappointment thus far. He had a lot going for him coming in, Texas is always going to recruit very well and the guy he was replacing in Barnes was one of the worst gameday coaches in the country. I blame him almost entirely for their struggles, his reputation was so good that he was able to sit back and basically choose whatever job he wanted. There is no reason for him to change what had been working for him.

Archie Miller is another story, Indiana’s fans are so nuts and have such an overinflated sense of entitlement that his stay could be a very short one if they don’t right the ship immediately. You cannot get blown out at home by in state schools like ISU and Ft Wayne and survive there. It literally cannot happen.

Yeah Smart has not had a particularly tough time at Texas in terms of recruiting or player turnover. He probably shoulders a lot of the blame, and their fans can’t be happy seeing what Rick Barnes has done at Tennessee in his 3 years.

I would imagine Miller gets a pass for this year just because IU fans can still blame Crean for the roster but he will definitely need to turn it around quickly. A job like IU, where the school has a brand that sells itself and is a destination job for coaches, doesn’t need to be patient. They’ll toss you to the side and go out and hire the next hotshot coach in no time flat.

He’s another example of coaching changes not usually paying off in the first couple of years. The whole “all you need is one class and it’ll turn the whole thing around” is a myth, in my opinion. You still need a solid foundation of players to add that class to.

 

[Chescat]

I think he did make an adjustments to the hand he was dealt. I don't believe we necessarily played his preferred style of play last season.

One could say the adjustments he made (playing Artis at the point for one) were the wrong ones based on results. (I personally wonder how those adjustments might have looked had Artis not been suspended, Young not broken his face and Luther not been lost for an extended period of time).

The adjustment of Artis to pg was a major mistake IMO, Artis was turnover prone before
he was made a pg by Stallings. IMO, Stallings should have recruited another pg or gone
with Kithcart and Milligan as a backup. Personally I feel he should have recruited another
one. The Artis experiment not only affected Artis, but also the forward slot where Artis
previously played.

 

[panther11578]

My crystal ball shows Jamie Dixon as the coach at Texas in a few years. TCU AD left for Texas and Jamie is his guy. Shaka hasn’t done all that well and the new AD will want to do something.

 

[Saboteur]

Watched Texas eke out a win against Tennessee St and found something the announcers said interesting. I think by now everybody knows Smart scrapped his Havoc defense soon after getting to Austin, but I was never fully sure why. I assumed it was because the Rick Barnes guys didn't fit his system, but it sounds like that's not actually the case. Apparently that decision was made due to the belief that highly rated big men didn't want to play in a system like that, and Smart wanted to go and get the highly regarded big guys (like Jarrett Allen and Mo Bamba), so he just abandoned it once he got to Texas.

On one hand, I get it. Everybody gets stars in their eyes. On the other, man, I can't believe he was so willing to scrap that style defense -- especially seeing how WVU's been able to make itself relevant again with a pressing style of play. And, more specifically, I can't believe he was willing to scrap that style of play for highly regarded big men, the most likely type of player to be ineffective in college but still leave after a year.

Smart's tenure there has been somewhat underwhelming given the hype he had and the (in my opinion, misguided) belief that a good coach will turn things around quickly and succeed right away.

In his first year he won just as many games as Rick Barnes did in his final year despite returning nearly the entire roster, which, okay that's fine. Not his guys, and at the time I gave him credit for not trying to force them to play the Havoc defense. But then he followed it up with an 11 win season in his 2nd year and so far this year it's looking like he's going to have another team that can't shoot a lick and is going to rely on a freshman post player to just block shots and keep teams from driving the paint in order to win games. I think Bamba's quite a bit better than Allen as a defender so maybe it'll work, but that team is scary bad offensively even when they have Andrew Jones in there shouldering almost the entire load.

Just strange to me that he would scrap his system in favor of recruiting rankings, at least before he saw his system fail. Andy Enfield scrapped the Dunk City thing at USC, too, which is another reason I always hesitate to assume that some hotshot, innovate young coach will be able to reinvent the wheel at the P5 level.

I don't know, maybe if Smart sees a little less turnover among his hotshot frosh big men he'll be able to really string something together but right now I'm just scratching my head and wondering if he didn't overthink things like Dixon did starting some time around 2009/10/11.

Expectations at Texas do not match reality. UT is not Duke. UT is not Kansas. UT has a shot load of money. So too do many schools.
Shaka is finding out that UT will not attract workaholics nor NBA types.
There are many wonderful places to go to school and UT is among them.
But nothing distinguishes UT.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

My crystal ball shows Jamie Dixon as the coach at Texas in a few years. TCU AD left for Texas and Jamie is his guy. Shaka hasn’t done all that well and the new AD will want to do something.

Yeah I mentioned that as a possibility last week sort of tongue-in-cheek, but I do think the quickest way for Texas to upgrade its revenue sports is to just bring in Dixon and Patterson from TCU.

I don’t think it will happen but at this point I do think TCU certainly has better coaches than Texas.

I do think Herman has some solid potential, but Patterson is damn good. I’ve always been a little hesitant on Smart, coaches who get most of their reputation on a run in March make me nervous. Too much luck involved.

 

[Saboteur]

The adjustment of Artis to pg was a major mistake IMO, Artis was turnover prone before
he was made a pg by Stallings. IMO, Stallings should have recruited another pg or gone
with Kithcart and Milligan as a backup. Personally I feel he should have recruited another
one. The Artis experiment not only affected Artis, but also the forward slot where Artis
previously played.

Dixon left no PG and no time to recruit a good PG. Stallings has done remarkably well in recruiting Carr.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

Watched Texas eke out a win against Tennessee St and found something the announcers said interesting. I think by now everybody knows Smart scrapped his Havoc defense soon after getting to Austin, but I was never fully sure why. I assumed it was because the Rick Barnes guys didn't fit his system, but it sounds like that's not actually the case. Apparently that decision was made due to the belief that highly rated big men didn't want to play in a system like that, and Smart wanted to go and get the highly regarded big guys (like Jarrett Allen and Mo Bamba), so he just abandoned it once he got to Texas.

On one hand, I get it. Everybody gets stars in their eyes. On the other, man, I can't believe he was so willing to scrap that style defense -- especially seeing how WVU's been able to make itself relevant again with a pressing style of play. And, more specifically, I can't believe he was willing to scrap that style of play for highly regarded big men, the most likely type of player to be ineffective in college but still leave after a year.

Smart's tenure there has been somewhat underwhelming given the hype he had and the (in my opinion, misguided) belief that a good coach will turn things around quickly and succeed right away.

In his first year he won just as many games as Rick Barnes did in his final year despite returning nearly the entire roster, which, okay that's fine. Not his guys, and at the time I gave him credit for not trying to force them to play the Havoc defense. But then he followed it up with an 11 win season in his 2nd year and so far this year it's looking like he's going to have another team that can't shoot a lick and is going to rely on a freshman post player to just block shots and keep teams from driving the paint in order to win games. I think Bamba's quite a bit better than Allen as a defender so maybe it'll work, but that team is scary bad offensively even when they have Andrew Jones in there shouldering almost the entire load.

Just strange to me that he would scrap his system in favor of recruiting rankings, at least before he saw his system fail. Andy Enfield scrapped the Dunk City thing at USC, too, which is another reason I always hesitate to assume that some hotshot, innovate young coach will be able to reinvent the wheel at the P5 level.

I don't know, maybe if Smart sees a little less turnover among his hotshot frosh big men he'll be able to really string something together but right now I'm just scratching my head and wondering if he didn't overthink things like Dixon did starting some time around 2009/10/11.

Expectations at Texas do not match reality. UT is not Duke. UT is not Kansas. UT has a shot load of money. So too do many schools.
Shaka is finding out that UT will not attract workaholics nor NBA types.
There are many wonderful places to go to school and UT is among them.
But nothing distinguishes UT.

UT definitely gets NBA types, but I would agree that they tend to not get workaholics. That was the big complaint at the end of Barnes’ tenure. He didn’t have guys with chips on their shoulder, he had guys like Jordan Hamilton who thought Texas was just a stop on the way to the NBA.

I actually think it’s a great job. You can recruit like crazy there, you have all the resources in the world, but you aren’t under a microscope quite as much as the other elite jobs where it’s basketball first. Football is still king.

 

[Saboteur]

UT definitely gets NBA types, but I would agree that they tend to not get workaholics. That was the big complaint at the end of Barnes’ tenure. He didn’t have guys with chips on their shoulder, he had guys like Jordan Hamilton who thought Texas was just a stop on the way to the NBA.

I actually think it’s a great job. You can recruit like crazy there, you have all the resources in the world, but you aren’t under a microscope quite as much as the other elite jobs where it’s basketball first. Football is still king.

That's a fair assessment and correction.

 

[Chescat]

Dixon left no PG and no time to recruit a good PG. Stallings has done remarkably well in recruiting Carr.

That's true, but the thread at the time was in reference to Artis becoming a pg.
As far as Carr I totally agree. Here's a thought....imagine if Stallings were able
to recruit Carr a year earlier, and started him as the pg on last year's senior
heavy team.

 

[Jpripper88]

Dixon left no PG and no time to recruit a good PG. Stallings has done remarkably well in recruiting Carr.

Wait, what do you mean Stallings had "no time to recruit a good PG"? There was a PG in the 2016 class who Stallings chose to re-sign. He didn't really use him and then he jettisoned him out. He had an on roster option who he didn't use last year, but is playing this year. There were good PGs signed by ACC schools (Justin Moore by GT is a great example) after Stallings got to Pitt. Stallings signed half of his class this year after the same date. So, then are you saying half of Stallings 2017 class is no good? Why would that be? Are you not familiar with the signings throughout college basketball after that date?

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

Texas is looking worse now than it did earlier in the season. The team can't shoot and it is going to get ugly come B12 play. Forty-seven points last night versus a poor opponent.

 

[thom67]

Stallings tried to use Kithcart, but he was plain terrible. That is why Artis went to pg. A PG that shoots free throws at a 10% clip just doesn't cut it. He could not shoot fg's, had many to's, and could not defend. That is a good combo for a PG.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

Texas is looking worse now than it did earlier in the season. The team can't shoot and it is going to ugly come B12 play. Forty-seven points last night versus a poor opponent.

Yeah they’re missing their main PG (Jones) which probably accentuates how bad the offense is, but I don’t think the terrible FT shooting and 3P shooting is an aberration — they were in the bottom handful of teams in those areas last year, too.

But, like you mentioned, 47 points against a team that was rated below Duquesne going into yesterday’s game isn’t something you could just chalk up to missing one player. Especially not when that guy’s backup is a Top 50 freshman.

 

[Jpripper88]

Stallings tried to use Kithcart, but he was plain terrible. That is why Artis went to pg. A PG that shoots free throws at a 10% clip just doesn't cut it. He could not shoot fg's, had many to's, and could not defend. That is a good combo for a PG.

1. He re-signed him.
2. Artis "went to PG" before the season started.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

Also I am conflicted on the 2016 recruiting class for Pitt.

Pitt fans were pretty consistently in the “Stallings needs to keep this class together” camp.

I think Stallings clearly either messed up in his evaluations or he was sensitive to the fanbase’s wishes and ultimately he brought in a couple of guys who weren’t great fits. I’d heard Clark was actually doing really well, but then obviously he suffered another ACL tear and that was that.

Basically I just chalk 2016 up as a loss. I think Pitt fans had a right to be excited about the class, it seemed really solid and I think Dixon would have done what he did. I don’t blame Stallings for trying to keep the class.

Sucks it didn’t work out.

 

[Haydman]

Also I am conflicted on the 2016 recruiting class for Pitt.

Pitt fans were pretty consistently in the “Stallings needs to keep this class together” camp.

I think Stallings clearly either messed up in his evaluations or he was sensitive to the fanbase’s wishes and ultimately he brought in a couple of guys who weren’t great fits. I’d heard Clark was actually doing really well, but then obviously he suffered another ACL tear and that was that.

Basically I just chalk 2016 up as a loss. I think Pitt fans had a right to be excited about the class, it seemed really solid and I think Dixon would have done what he did. I don’t blame Stallings for trying to keep the class.

Sucks it didn’t work out.

Good assessment. I guess KS takes the blame because I'm sure he'd be getting some of the credit for keeping it together had it worked out. More importantly I think what really hamstrung us is that as a sitting P5 coach you would have hoped that he would have brought a recruit with him or he would have hired assistants with recruits attached.

I just hope he can work some magic with this next class. I really thinks that's make or break for him.

 

[Jpripper88]

Good assessment. I guess KS takes the blame because I'm sure he'd be getting some of the credit for keeping it together had it worked out. More importantly I think what really hamstrung us is that as a sitting P5 coach you would have hoped that he would have brought a recruit with him or he would have hired assistants with recruits attached.

I just hope he can work some magic with this next class. I really thinks that's make or break for him.

That and the fact he filled half his 2017 class after that time period is what really kills any argument he has. We left a scholarship open and other schools added solid players, while we did nothing.

 

[DT_PITT]

I think he did make an adjustments to the hand he was dealt. I don't believe we necessarily played his preferred style of play last season.

One could say the adjustments he made (playing Artis at the point for one) were the wrong ones based on results. (I personally wonder how those adjustments might have looked had Artis not been suspended, Young not broken his face and Luther not been lost for an extended period of time).

I for one still have no issue with playing Jamel at the point. I think Stallings gave something a try. Otherwise I think we were a bubble team at best. He took a shot at something greater, regardless if it worked out.

Besides, last year's teams biggest problems were on defense anyway.

 

[gary2]

I for one still have no issue with playing Jamel at the point. I think Stallings gave something a try. Otherwise I think we were a bubble team at best. He took a shot at something greater, regardless if it worked out.

Besides, last year's teams biggest problems were on defense anyway.

Basically agree - I have to feel dedication to the team concept was a big problem as well.

Add mishandling of player psyches to that list.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

Also I am conflicted on the 2016 recruiting class for Pitt.

Pitt fans were pretty consistently in the “Stallings needs to keep this class together” camp.

I think Stallings clearly either messed up in his evaluations or he was sensitive to the fanbase’s wishes and ultimately he brought in a couple of guys who weren’t great fits. I’d heard Clark was actually doing really well, but then obviously he suffered another ACL tear and that was that.

Basically I just chalk 2016 up as a loss. I think Pitt fans had a right to be excited about the class, it seemed really solid and I think Dixon would have done what he did. I don’t blame Stallings for trying to keep the class.

Sucks it didn’t work out.

Good assessment. I guess KS takes the blame because I'm sure he'd be getting some of the credit for keeping it together had it worked out. More importantly I think what really hamstrung us is that as a sitting P5 coach you would have hoped that he would have brought a recruit with him or he would have hired assistants with recruits attached.

I just hope he can work some magic with this next class. I really thinks that's make or break for him.

Yeah I think he either gets the blame for evaluating these guys poorly or reacting to what the general sentiment was, but either way I think he gets the blame. But, we also liked that class and were happy when he got them back so I don’t want to kill him (or Dixon) too much over it.

I’m somewhat conflicted on poaching prior recruits and hiring assistants with kids attached to them. I don’t love the idea of either thing, but I won’t get mad if a coach does it. I do respect a coach who doesn’t like doing those things, though, and by all accounts Stallings plays it pretty straight on the trail. Which is also something I respect personally.

I do think Sutton was a savvy hire for the Montverde foot in the door, although obviously he isn’t a guy who is going to be the pied piper for all the 5* players who come through there.

 

[Haydman]

Yeah I think he either gets the blame for evaluating these guys poorly or reacting to what the general sentiment was, but either way I think he gets the blame. But, we also liked that class and were happy when he got them back so I don’t want to kill him (or Dixon) too much over it.

I’m somewhat conflicted on poaching prior recruits and hiring assistants with kids attached to them. I don’t love the idea of either thing, but I won’t get mad if a coach does it. I do respect a coach who doesn’t like doing those things, though, and by all accounts Stallings plays it pretty straight on the trail. Which is also something I respect personally.

I do think Sutton was a savvy hire for the Montverde foot in the door, although obviously he isn’t a guy who is going to be the pied piper for all the 5* players who come through there.

In a perfect world i agree but i can't really fault a kid who wants to follow a coach to a new job. Of course that's not something we needed to worry about it this case! I don't know if KS is someone who doesn't like doing those things or couldn't do it. Either way let's hope recruiting gets turned around for next year.

 

[DT_PITT]

Basically agree - I have to feel dedication to the team concept was a big problem as well.

Add mishandling of player psyches to that list.

It was always a tough group to coach.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Dixon left no PG and no time to recruit a good PG. Stallings has done remarkably well in recruiting Carr.

He’s a talented combo guard.
But not a real point.

 

[pitt-girl]

Yeah Smart has not had a particularly tough time at Texas in terms of recruiting or player turnover. He probably shoulders a lot of the blame, and their fans can’t be happy seeing what Rick Barnes has done at Tennessee in his 3 years.

I would imagine Miller gets a pass for this year just because IU fans can still blame Crean for the roster but he will definitely need to turn it around quickly. A job like IU, where the school has a brand that sells itself and is a destination job for coaches, doesn’t need to be patient. They’ll toss you to the side and go out and hire the next hotshot coach in no time flat.

He’s another example of coaching changes not usually paying off in the first couple of years. The whole “all you need is one class and it’ll turn the whole thing around” is a myth, in my opinion. You still need a solid foundation of players to add that class to.

Not so sure about IU - they have made some questionable hires post-Knight era. I kind of get Crean with his success at Marquette, but I also think Crean's resume was very padded with Wade and Denier. I mean this was the school that actually hired a KNOWN cheater after a risky hire of an assistant (hot shot coach????) that went sideways. Head scratching at best.

 

[Saboteur]

He’s a talented combo guard.
But not a real point.

Because one third of the way thru his freshman year, he's a finished product.
Ugh.
You over value your own opinions.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Because one third of the way thru his freshman year, he's a finished product.
Ugh.
You over value your own opinions.

I guess as much as you value your opinion that he’s a point guard.

 

[Pittfan85]

Dixon left no PG and no time to recruit a good PG. Stallings has done remarkably well in recruiting Carr.

Stop blaming Dixon.

 

[thom67]

1. He re-signed him.
2. Artis "went to PG" before the season started.

You don't think Stallings saw him play all summer and realized he was not good? That is why Artis was switched to PG. At beginning of season Kithcart was used a lot at PG, but was just dismal.

 

[Pittfan85]

You don't think Stallings saw him play all summer and realized he was not good? That is why Artis was switched to PG. At beginning of season Kithcart was used a lot at PG, but was just dismal.

I didn’t think kithcart was dismal. He wasn’t great, and was bad offensively shooting the ball.

With that said, he saw limited time. There was no way to evaluate him. Artis was moved to pg almost as soon as kithcart got here.

I would have rather had kithcart here than boykins at the very least.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

You don't think Stallings saw him play all summer and realized he was not good? That is why Artis was switched to PG. At beginning of season Kithcart was used a lot at PG, but was just dismal.

And the vacant ship?
Moving Damon Wilson to wing?

Accept that stallings made Choices, and didn’t have his hands tied.

 

[Jpripper88]

You don't think Stallings saw him play all summer and realized he was not good? That is why Artis was switched to PG. At beginning of season Kithcart was used a lot at PG, but was just dismal.

I know he signed him. I know he planned to play Artis at PG far before the season started and Artis was practicing for PG in (at least) June. So, to answer your question: No, I do not think that is what happened.

Plus, Kithcart kept playing throughout the year and is better than a lot of what we brought in this year. So is Milligan. Do you think Stallings is such an awful prospect evaluator that he thought Kithcart was such a great option in March that he didn't recruit anyone else and left a scholarship open and moved other options off, but via extremely limited (because of HS and the NCAA rules) looks at him in early June he decided he wasn't good enough and needed to play Artis at PG? That would be an interesting position to take and certainly not bode very well for the future.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

I didn’t think kithcart was dismal. He wasn’t great, and was bad offensively shooting the ball.

With that said, he saw limited time. There was no way to evaluate him. Artis was moved to pg almost as soon as kithcart got here.

I would have rather had kithcart here than boykins at the very least.

Wasn't great. Lousy shot. Dismal sounds right to me. Had plenty of time to showcase his talent and didn't.

That said, you do recall he was dismissed don't you? He was never going to be part of the mix this year.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

I didn’t think kithcart was dismal. He wasn’t great, and was bad offensively shooting the ball.

With that said, he saw limited time. There was no way to evaluate him. Artis was moved to pg almost as soon as kithcart got here.

I would have rather had kithcart here than boykins at the very least.

Wasn't great. Lousy shot. Dismal sounds right to me. Had plenty of time to showcase his talent and didn't.

That said, you do recall he was dismissed don't you? He was never going to be part of the mix this year.

Yeah I think it’s fair to speculate that Dixon would have gotten something out of him while also acknowledging he was a poor fit for what Stallings wants.

For as much as people are bagging on Carr for not being a true PG, his assist rate is tremendous (and, since it’s a rate, it isn’t minutes-dependent) and twice that of Justice Kithcart’s.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

Yeah I think it’s fair to speculate that Dixon would have gotten something out of him while also acknowledging he was a poor fit for what Stallings wants.

For as much as people are bagging on Carr for not being a true PG, his assist rate is tremendous (and, since it’s a rate, it isn’t minutes-dependent) and twice that of Justice Kithcart’s.

Well if we are speculating, I doubt Dixon would have given Kithcart much more minutes if he wanted to win games.
He simply wasn't ready.

With respect to this year it doesn't matter. Kithcart ran himself off the team.