Something I don't quite understand

[Vader_Storm]

To be fair, all I can do is read your words and assume that you mean what the words you typed say.

If you don't think that fans influence athletic department decisions about hiring and firing coaches then you are simply delusional. If they didn't, Greg Shiano would be coaching Tennessee football. Auburn wouldn't have just fired both an AD and a football coach. Georgia Tech wouldn't have just fired a football coach. And so on.

Plenty of athletic departments make decisions based on what the fans want. The other ones do stupid things like hiring Kevin Stallings and retaining Jeff Capel, even as the fan base craters.

Of course they do. And what you write is correct regarding fans.

However, Pitt owed over $9 million on the buyout to Stallings. I cant remember what the final figure was, but it was probably at least $5 million to break the contract and get him out of here. Now we are set to do that again.


On the bright side if there is one, Lyke was willing to pay good money to try and get Hurley here and there is money to spend. So I think they are going to be willing to spend good money again to try and get a decent coach.

The issue is, another big buyout taking place all over again within a 5 year window which is ridiculous on top of the ridiculous extension Lyke gave him. I want to win here like everyone else. But Im looking at it from both sides, along with, the potential of next years bunch of players.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

To be fair, all I can do is read your words and assume that you mean what the words you typed say.

If you don't think that fans influence athletic department decisions about hiring and firing coaches then you are simply delusional. If they didn't, Greg Shiano would be coaching Tennessee football. Auburn wouldn't have just fired both an AD and a football coach. Georgia Tech wouldn't have just fired a football coach. And so on.

Plenty of athletic departments make decisions based on what the fans want. The other ones do stupid things like hiring Kevin Stallings and retaining Jeff Capel, even as the fan base craters.

Are we talking about schools they don’t hesitate to pay 15 million to fire coaches or Pitt ? I thought this discussion is about what Pitt will do !

Pitt has had every reason to send JC on his way , no one in the country would’ve ridiculed that decision , but why didn’t they $$$$$.

Did the fans insist of the ruination of one of the best football programs in the country in the late 70’s/early 80’s or a bb program that had players like Charles Smith & Jerome Lanes . This is the Pitt way to F…up successful programs .

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Pitt’s price tag is higher than you think it is. We’ve consistently been one of the 25 biggest spenders in the country on basketball. We aren’t a program that plays poor.

That doesn’t mean we were going to spend $17M last year on a buyout. But that’s not the buyout this year. Capel’s gotta win or we’re looking for a new coach - and the resources we are prepared to devote to that search are not small.

I hope your right , but I’ll believe it when I see it .

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Of course they do. And what you write is correct regarding fans.

However, Pitt owed over $9 million on the buyout to Stallings. I cant remember what the final figure was, but it was probably at least $5 million to break the contract and get him out of here. Now we are set to do that again.


On the bright side if there is one, Lyke was willing to pay good money to try and get Hurley here and there is money to spend. So I think they are going to be willing to spend good money again to try and get a decent coach.

The issue is, another big buyout taking place all over again within a 5 year window which is ridiculous on top of the ridiculous extension Lyke gave him. I want to win here like everyone else. But Im looking at it from both sides, along with, the potential of next years bunch of players.

I think it’s safe to say everyone would like a change , Pitt bb is a hard follow anymore . The question is will Pitt write the checks because no boosters have stepped up to do so or it would’ve been done .

 

[pittchagg]

I hope your right , but I’ll believe it when I see it .

We’ve already seen it. Kevin Stallings’ buyout was almost $10M when we fired him after year two. We’ve already seen Pitt be in the top 25 spenders in college basketball ever since they started tracking that metric.

$10M to fire Stallings is different than $17M to fire Jeff Capel after last season. But we’ve proven that we’re willing to pay that much to get a coach to go away, and we’ll do it again.

 

[Vader_Storm]

We’ve already seen it. Kevin Stallings’ buyout was almost $10M when we fired him after year two. We’ve already seen Pitt be in the top 25 spenders in college basketball ever since they started tracking that metric.

$10M to fire Stallings is different than $17M to fire Jeff Capel after last season. But we’ve proven that we’re willing to pay that much to get a coach to go away, and we’ll do it again.

That final buyout figure was reduced down regarding Stallings.


Capel's will also be reduced down. But we are still talking about 2 buyouts in 5 years.


And I do agree Pitt will spend money on a coach, because most importantly, Lyke's job security cannot afford another disaster basketball decision.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

That final buyout figure was reduced down regarding Stallings.


Capel's will also be reduced down. But we are still talking about 2 buyouts in 5 years.


And I do agree Pitt will spend money on a coach, because most importantly, Lyke's job security cannot afford another disaster basketball decision.

We’ll know in March at the latest . I believe any positivity from the program he’s here another yr .

It’s hard to believe that will happen after watching the first 3 games .

Why would Capel take less ? He’s done as a HC at D1 if he’s fired . I’d make Pitt pay me every cent they owe me .

 

[pittchagg]

We’ll know in March at the latest . I believe any positivity from the program he’s here another yr .

It’s hard to believe that will happen after watching the first 3 games .

Why would Capel take less ? He’s done as a HC at D1 if he’s fired . I’d make Pitt pay me every cent they owe me .

Because buyout money frequently comes with ongoing obligations from the coach that are annoying. Maybe the buyout’s subject to an offset clause where it’s reduced if you take another job, or you have an obligation to keep looking for a coaching job in order to keep getting buyout payments, and you’d rather take a little less money and just have the money with no strings?

Maybe the buyout is structured in a way where you get payments spread out over a number of years, but you’d rather take a little less and have it all paid to you upfront? Or, the opposite, where you’d rather take a little less in total but get paid a certain amount over a longer period of time? There are a bunch of reasons why you might want to negotiate down to a lower total number.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I hope your right , but I’ll believe it when I see it .

Capel has a top 25 salary. Dixon kept getting (mostly deserved imho) raises. We offered more money to Hurley than UConn. We paid Stallings well and paid a lot to get rid of him. We upgraded facilities. Pitt hasn't been cheap on hoops. We've been dumb, not cheap.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Because buyout money frequently comes with ongoing obligations from the coach that are annoying. Maybe the buyout’s subject to an offset clause where it’s reduced if you take another job, or you have an obligation to keep looking for a coaching job in order to keep getting buyout payments, and you’d rather take a little less money and just have the money with no strings?

Maybe the buyout is structured in a way where you get payments spread out over a number of years, but you’d rather take a little less and have it all paid to you upfront? Or, the opposite, where you’d rather take a little less in total but get paid a certain amount over a longer period of time? There are a bunch of reasons why you might want to negotiate down to a lower total number.

If you won the lottery do you take the lump sum or the annuity ? You take the lump sum and invest it and you come out way ahead , but that means Pitt needs to open up the vault .

He can look all he wants , but there are no multimillion dollar jobs waiting for him , he knowns it & Pitt knows it .

 

[pittchagg]

If you won the lottery do you take the lump sum or the annuity ? You take the lump sum and invest it and you come out way ahead , but that means Pitt needs to open up the vault .

He can look all he wants , but there are no multimillion dollar jobs waiting for him , he knowns it & Pitt knows it .

Sure. But what if the buyout is structured where he’s paid $5M now, and $2M every year for the remainder of his contract ($13M total)? You could see a situation where a coach might be tempted to take, say, $9M upfront, right now with no ongoing obligations by either party for the reasons you said. That’s still taking a lower buyout.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Capel has a top 25 salary. Dixon kept getting (mostly deserved imho) raises. We offered more money to Hurley than UConn. We paid Stallings well and paid a lot to get rid of him. We upgraded facilities. Pitt hasn't been cheap on hoops. We've been dumb, not cheap.

They were paying JD with a packed house and for the last 6 yrs now going on 7 there’s no one in the Pete and I’m sure donations to the Pitt bb program are down . Everyone gets tired of paying for nothing . I hope your 100% correct and Pitt brings in someone special , but I’m not counting on it . My bet is the next coach will be a whose that guy .

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

They were paying JD with a packed house and for the last 6 yrs now going on 7 there’s no one in the Pete and I’m sure donations to the Pitt bb program are down . Everyone gets tired of paying for nothing . I hope your 100% correct and Pitt brings in someone special , but I’m not counting on it . My bet is the next coach will be a whose that guy .

Well your last sentence may be correct, I just think Pitt has spent a lot on hoops for a program with a small donor fan base.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Sure. But what if the buyout is structured where he’s paid $5M now, and $2M every year for the remainder of his contract ($13M total)? You could see a situation where a coach might be tempted to take, say, $9M upfront, right now with no ongoing obligations by either party for the reasons you said. That’s still taking a lower buyout.

I think I’d wait and take 5 mil and 2 mil for how many other yrs than drop it by 4 million . He’s already wealthy .

 

[andypappas]

Who isn’t fed up with this fiasco ? If the decision was based solely on performance he’d be gone already , but obviously it’s not .

The fan base is almost non existent already and those of us who love college bb will continue to follow Pitt , if you decide you’ve had enough until the program turns around you could be in for a long wait .

Listen to local sports talk radio , Pitt bb only gets mentioned in the headlines no one even wastes their time talking about it , there’s not much further it can fall . No one cares !


I totally agree with you , if the twins show promise , the Dior situation has a positive outcome for him and Pitt and with the incoming freshman combined with Hugley and Hinson they might be on to something I think he’s back unless they just totally collapse . Like I said Heather will insist on staff changes to appear like she’s strong if he stays on .

If Capel is fired everyone leaves and the next coach will literally have a Stallings like squad the next yr and we know how this turns out . What desirable coach wants to walk into that mess . How many millions are they willing to throw at the bb program ? My guess….. not enough .

ps .. don’t confuse this with me wanting him to stay , he’s had more than enough time to prove he’s the man here .

Everyone on this board is entitled to their opinion. One comment I will disagree with you on is being a college basketball fan. I love Pitt, but just like the 2 years that Stallings was here and this year, I have absolutely no interest in the program. I was really excited when Capel got the job, but after the drama with the players a few years ago, others getting in trouble and Capel not taking any blame for the product, it got too much for me.
Lyke should have forced him into staff changes after last season, she didn't. What makes you think she will force him this year?

As far as having a Stallings squad next year I disagree. With the way the transfer portal is, I think there is a chance a half way competent coach would be able to put together a somewhat competitive squad.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Everyone on this board is entitled to their opinion. One comment I will disagree with you on is being a college basketball fan. I love Pitt, but just like the 2 years that Stallings was here and this year, I have absolutely no interest in the program. I was really excited when Capel got the job, but after the drama with the players a few years ago, others getting in trouble and Capel not taking any blame for the product, it got too much for me.
Lyke should have forced him into staff changes after last season, she didn't. What makes you think she will force him this year?

As far as having a Stallings squad next year I disagree. With the way the transfer portal is, I think there is a chance a half way competent coach would be able to put together a somewhat competitive squad.

Pressure to do something would be my guess on staff changes . Doing nothing and bringing him and his staff back intact would seem negligent. Most would think bringing him back under any circumstances would be negligent.

The portal does exist now , but the best players want to better their position . Going to a place where there’s nothing would take one hell of a hire .

Even when Pitt was a highly desirable job , when Ben left , they couldn’t find anyone , not sure the job has much appeal to that level of coach now .

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

If I was the AD, I would look at 4 things.

1) How does the season finish record wise

2) What happens with Dior

3) What promise do the young players show, if any, at seasons end

4) What do the 2 prized recruits do in high school this year i.e- both guards will absolutely be in the running for Gatorade state player of the year, do they win it, etc.. Both are averaging close to 30 points per game right now.


I do agree with Joe that the fanbase is and has been sinking quickly and something needs to give and be done quickly. But the idea of 3 stud guards with Dior, Lowe, and Carrington is something this program has not been close to having since the Dixon days back in 2011.


I think about what this team would look like with Dior, Judah Mintz, and Ryan Dunn right now, 3 freshmen, with Capel Coaching. Mintz and Dunn are already turning into studs at college with the former averaging just under 20 a game. I would also state that those 3 guards would be starting right now from day 1 on our team, as freshmen.


Like I said, Im on the fence. I think the answer will be a lot more clear at seasons end.

Will you please stop this? Carrington and Lowe are not that good

 

[Vader_Storm]

Will you please stop this? Carrington and Lowe are not that good

They are good but it doesn't matter.

Its time to fire Capel. Ive seen enough after today.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

They are good but it doesn't matter.

Its time to fire Capel. Ive seen enough after today.

They’re not any better than we’ve had and freshmen don’t win shit in college hoops anymore. Even the blue bloods are getting older.

 

[andypappas]

They are good but it doesn't matter.

Its time to fire Capel. Ive seen enough after today.

How soon till you are back on the bandwagon?

 

[Vader_Storm]

How soon till you are back on the bandwagon?

Win 10 acc games regardless of how bad the acc is. At this junction Capel needs to prove all of his doubters wrong after that first half performance.

 

[TD_6082]

They are good but it doesn't matter.

Its time to fire Capel. Ive seen enough after today.

I'm not defending Capel, as he's been a bad HC his entire career. (and yes, it was a horrible hire from day one unless Pitt lets him go rogue recruiting) But today is exactly what you would expect it to look like. Roll the ball out there and pick up an easy W and send the Hornets back to Alabama with a nice check. The team just played 2 legit programs in NYC. It's not like they are going to spend any real time to prepare for a game against a team with such inferior talent.

 

[pittchagg]

I'm not defending Capel, as he's been a bad HC his entire career. (and yes, it was a horrible hire from day one unless Pitt lets him go rogue recruiting) But today is exactly what you would expect it to look like. Roll the ball out there and pick up an easy W and send the Hornets back to Alabama with a nice check. The team just played 2 legit programs in NYC. It's not like they are going to spend any real time to prepare for a game against a team with such inferior talent.

We’re actually sending them down the street with a nice check - they play at Duquesne on Wednesday.

 

[TD_6082]

We’re actually sending them down the street with a nice check - they play at Duquesne on Wednesday.

I'm totally outta touch on Nov/Dec college hoops. Although my 11 has me reluctantly watching UVA Hoops on a NFL Sunday. This can't end soon enough.