Stanford

[Submuloc Ni UVW]

When USC and UCLA announced their jump to Fox, ESPN and the ACC could and should have gathered the remaining PAC into a partnership with the ACC.

The level of panic with all those schools were at their highest at that time(as well as it should have been, as it turned out for most) and all, including Oregon and Washington, could have been swayed by a deal brokered by ESPN (Oregon and Wash wouldn’t have needed to agree to take next to nothing from the Big Ten for X years, Stanford and Cal likewise from us, while the other PAC wouldn’t have had to settle for the B12 ghetto).

Idiots here who are thinking the ACC was / is smart about what it did (didn’t) are either mentally challenged or sycophants. And that’s the list.

I think the problem with your line of thinking is that OUW never thought about the ACC/XII. Their eyes were solely on Power 2, for good reason.

It would behoove them to take a B1G invite and PAY MONEY, let alone not take any money, for the life of this current deal (which I believe runs through ‘29 or ‘30).

The financial gap between P2 and everyone else is that wide. They’ll eventually be handsomely rewarded. “Just be in the mix” is their thinking for whatever this sport becomes.

ACC is two separate conferences of “haves” who will be in the P2 and all the others who will likely land in a diluted ACC or AAC. No different than XII or PAC. I think it’ll be fascinating to see how it all plays out. I would be willing to bet that a tug o war will play out for UNC, which is easily the most valuable property remaining….besides Notre Dame.

 

[jivecat]

I think the problem with your line of thinking is that OUW never thought about the ACC/XII. Their eyes were solely on Power 2, for good reason.

It would behoove them to take a B1G invite and PAY MONEY, let alone not take any money, for the life of this current deal (which I believe runs through ‘29 or ‘30).

The financial gap between P2 and everyone else is that wide. They’ll eventually be handsomely rewarded. “Just be in the mix” is their thinking for whatever this sport becomes.

ACC is two separate conferences of “haves” who will be in the P2 and all the others who will likely land in a diluted ACC or AAC. No different than XII or PAC. I think it’ll be fascinating to see how it all plays out. I would be willing to bet that a tug o war will play out for UNC, which is easily the most valuable property remaining….besides Notre Dame.

The "CalFord" situation is similar to WVU in the Big 12. WVU can't compete in a watered down Big 12 but also is incurring huge travel costs for all of its sports. I'm not sure they have been relevant since they moved to the Big 12. "CalFord" appears to be in a similar situation except they are incredible academic institutions whereas WVU is a diploma mill.

 

[Submuloc Ni UVW]

The "CalFord" situation is similar to WVU in the Big 12. WVU can't compete in a watered down Big 12 but also is incurring huge travel costs for all of its sports. I'm not sure they have been relevant since they moved to the Big 12. "CalFord" appears to be in a similar situation except they are incredible academic institutions whereas WVU is a diploma mill.

Easy there, killer.

 

[WillyDavis33]

Is there going to be an announcement this morning re: Stan and Cal?

 

[jivecat]

Easy there, killer.

You don't see the resemblance in the situation....minus the academics. As a PITT fan who is part of the ACC, how can you not recognize the situation as the Big East broke up? We could have been in the Big 12 but our athletic and academic ability allowed us to join the ACC. Joining the Big 12 would have been nothing short of a disaster for PITT. Cal Ford is in the same situation.

 

[pittchagg]

When USC and UCLA announced their jump to Fox, ESPN and the ACC could and should have gathered the remaining PAC into a partnership with the ACC.

The level of panic with all those schools were at their highest at that time(as well as it should have been, as it turned out for most) and all, including Oregon and Washington, could have been swayed by a deal brokered by ESPN (Oregon and Wash wouldn’t have needed to agree to take next to nothing from the Big Ten for X years, Stanford and Cal likewise from us, while the other PAC wouldn’t have had to settle for the B12 ghetto).

Idiots here who are thinking the ACC was / is smart about what it did (didn’t) are either mentally challenged or sycophants. And that’s the list.

I don’t think any of this is true. The remaining Pac-12 schools simply didn’t want to leave to join the ACC, they wanted to stay together and sign their own television deal.

ESPN offered the Pac 12 $30M per school. Why would any of them leave to join the ACC which is currently paying…$30M per school? Especially when the Pac12’s leadership was telling them that if they stayed together, their market value was closer to $50M per school, and they believed they could get it?

So last year, Oregon and Washington were faced with a choice of either taking $30M from the ACC, or the $30M that was on the table from ESPN and the Pac 12. This year, they were faced with the choice of either taking $30M from the ACC, or $30M from the Big Ten.

 

[WillyDavis33]

I don’t think any of this is true. The remaining Pac-12 schools simply didn’t want to leave to join the ACC, they wanted to stay together and sign their own television deal.

ESPN offered the Pac 12 $30M per school. Why would any of them leave to join the ACC which is currently paying…$30M per school? Especially when the Pac12’s leadership was telling them that if they stayed together, their market value was closer to $50M per school, and they believed they could get it?

So last year, Oregon and Washington were faced with a choice of either taking $30M from the ACC, or the $30M that was on the table from ESPN and the Pac 12. This year, they were faced with the choice of either taking $30M from the ACC, or $30M from the Big Ten.

If this is the case the ACC should recruit the PAC 12 leadership team!

 

[Submuloc Ni UVW]

You don't see the resemblance in the situation....minus the academics. As a PITT fan who is part of the ACC, how can you not recognize the situation as the Big East broke up? We could have been in the Big 12 but our athletic and academic ability allowed us to join the ACC. Joining the Big 12 would have been nothing short of a disaster for PITT. Cal Ford is in the same situation.

Pitt in the XII is nonsensical. It would be like Syracuse, BC, Duke or Wake. It was wise for you not to join XII. We were forced to do so. No other option.

Just oil and water. Not necessarily BAD. Definitely not a fit, culturally. Brand is going to matter. Fan engagement is going to matter.

And that matters much more than market size (see Calford), academics, etc in this era of college football with changes in player compensation, fan responsibilities/obligations to the sports team, etc. Don’t get me wrong. I hate it.

Also, it had to with academic (no doubt a factor in 2010 or whenever) and market size for subs. It had nothing to do with athletics.

If that was the case, WVU throttles you at that time coming off of 2-3 BCS wins and a Final 4.

 

[jivecat]

Pitt in the XII is nonsensical. It would be like Syracuse, BC, Duke or Wake. It was wise for you not to join XII. We were forced to do so. No other option.

Just oil and water. Not necessarily BAD. Definitely not a fit, culturally. Brand is going to matter. Fan engagement is going to matter.

And that matters much more than market size (see Calford), academics, etc in this era of college football with changes in player compensation, fan responsibilities/obligations to the sports team, etc. Don’t get me wrong. I hate it.

Also, it had to with academic (no doubt a factor in 2010 or whenever) and market size for subs. It had nothing to do with athletics.

If that was the case, WVU throttles you at that time coming off of 2-3 BCS wins and a Final 4.

Who is "We"? Are you a WVU fan that is posting on a PITT message board about Cal and Stanford?

 

[Submuloc Ni UVW]

Who is "We"? Are you a WVU fan that is posting on a PITT message board about Cal and Stanford?

My apologies. Yes, I’m a WVU grad. Should’ve made that clear.

 

[WillyDavis33]

My apologies. Yes, I’m a WVU grad. Should’ve made that clear.

WVU grad! Let the jokes begin!

 

[jivecat]

My apologies. Yes, I’m a WVU grad. Should’ve made that clear.

I have many WVU grads that work for me. Very nice guys. I am always open to friendly discourse, but why would you create an account to post on a PITT message board about PAC 12 issues?

 

[Submuloc Ni UVW]

I have many WVU grads that work for me. Very nice guys. I am always open to friendly discourse, but why would you create an account to post on a PITT message board about PAC 12 issues?

I stop by each Summer/Fall. Like the Backyard Brawl rivalry.

I’m not a backward college fan (most of which reside in North or non-red state football universities) who discounts a good rivalry and some good-natured ribbing/smack talk.

 

[pittchagg]

Pitt in the XII is nonsensical. It would be like Syracuse, BC, Duke or Wake. It was wise for you not to join XII. We were forced to do so. No other option.

Just oil and water. Not necessarily BAD. Definitely not a fit, culturally. Brand is going to matter. Fan engagement is going to matter.

And that matters much more than market size (see Calford), academics, etc in this era of college football with changes in player compensation, fan responsibilities/obligations to the sports team, etc. Don’t get me wrong. I hate it.

Also, it had to with academic (no doubt a factor in 2010 or whenever) and market size for subs. It had nothing to do with athletics.

If that was the case, WVU throttles you at that time coming off of 2-3 BCS wins and a Final 4.

To be honest though, I think Cal and Stanford are pretty strong culture fits with the ACC. Maybe not with Florida State and their current motivations, but I think otherwise their schools and athletic departments - especially the Olympic sports - fit in pretty well with the ACC’s membership. The only concern is geography. But if you picked up those schools and put them both outside of Washington DC instead, they would have been in the ACC 60 years ago.

 

[Submuloc Ni UVW]

To be honest though, I think Cal and Stanford are pretty strong culture fits with the ACC. Maybe not with Florida State and their current motivations, but I think otherwise their schools and athletic departments - especially the Olympic sports - fit in pretty well with the ACC’s membership. The only concern is geography. But if you picked up those schools and put them both outside of Washington DC instead, they would have been in the ACC 60 years ago.

Completely agree with you. Not even debatable.

 

[forbesfield]

The problem for WVU is that they are a bad cultural fit for everywhere except the SEC, and they wouldn't be able to compete in that arena. On top of that, they bring nothing to attract the SEC anyhow.

 

[pittdan77]

I don’t think any of this is true. The remaining Pac-12 schools simply didn’t want to leave to join the ACC, they wanted to stay together and sign their own television deal.

ESPN offered the Pac 12 $30M per school. Why would any of them leave to join the ACC which is currently paying…$30M per school? Especially when the Pac12’s leadership was telling them that if they stayed together, their market value was closer to $50M per school, and they believed they could get it?

So last year, Oregon and Washington were faced with a choice of either taking $30M from the ACC, or the $30M that was on the table from ESPN and the Pac 12. This year, they were faced with the choice of either taking $30M from the ACC, or $30M from the Big Ten.

It is expected that the ACC is going to be over $50 million when the numbers get reported for the first full year of Comcast being on board. That was part of the valuation that the Pac12 was leaning on. The problem is that ESPN hasn't really valued anything to the west for a while except Texas and OU. That's been pretty clear for a while now based on how they've behaved towards the Big12 and why there wasn't much effort to intervene with USC. They moved the money makers out of the Big12 and took a hard pass on USC.

I think what gets forgotten inside this bubble is that ESPN spends a ton of money on the NFL which is the real overlap. They've also been heavily invested in the CFP. They've always been accused of an "east coast bias" and probably wisely so. It's where all the TV's are at.

 

[pittchagg]

It is expected that the ACC is going to be over $50 million when the numbers get reported for the first full year of Comcast being on board. That was part of the valuation that the Pac12 was leaning on. The problem is that ESPN hasn't really valued anything to the west for a while except Texas and OU. That's been pretty clear for a while now based on how they've behaved towards the Big12 and why there wasn't much effort to intervene with USC. They moved the money makers out of the Big12 and took a hard pass on USC.

I think what gets forgotten inside this bubble is that ESPN spends a ton of money on the NFL which is the real overlap. They've also been heavily invested in the CFP. They've always been accused of an "east coast bias" and probably wisely so. It's where all the TV's are at.

I also think part of what we saw with the Big 12 is that ESPN only picks up 2/3 of that cost. Fox picks up the rest. So when the Big 12 went on their expansion binge, ESPN is only talking about forking over $20M per school, not the $30+ that they’d be doing for any expansion in the ACC.

 

[jivecat]

I stop by each Summer/Fall. Like the Backyard Brawl rivalry.

I’m not a backward college fan (most of which reside in North or non-red state football universities) who discounts a good rivalry and some good-natured ribbing/smack talk.

I love the rivalry with WVU and wish it would be every year.....but I am not following why you would create an account to weigh in on Cal and Stanford's predicament. You don't find that a little odd?

 

[H2P-2007]

At what point can we be confident that the ACC isn't bringing in Stanford & Cal? I feel like this has been talked out enough, and considered long enough, that if something was going to happen, that it would have happened by now...

 

[Submuloc Ni UVW]

I love the rivalry with WVU and wish it would be every year.....but I am not following why you would create an account to weigh in on Cal and Stanford's predicament. You don't find that a little odd?

1. I have commented on this board for numerous years.

2. I have been fascinated with all aspects of conference realignment since OUT left XII. My comments at that time mostly reflected my interest in direction of college football, despite it being a disaster for WVU. I think ACC would be making another mistake by taking those two schools ahead of SMU (especially), USF and Memphis.

3. This is what you want me to say. (I’m able to read others well). You want me to say “because I enjoy watching the instability of the ACC”. There may be a little part of me that thinks that but honestly not a great part of me because it does nothing to benefit WVU (my school). I truly enjoy the banter/debate. Schadenfreude isn’t healthy.

I will contend that if this is what you were getting after, this displays some insecurity on your part as well. And that’s totally ok.

If that’s not what you were getting after (with your leading comment), then ignore this.

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

Easy there, killer.

Hard to argue though.

 

[topdecktiger]

It is expected that the ACC is going to be over $50 million when the numbers get reported for the first full year of Comcast being on board. That was part of the valuation that the Pac12 was leaning on. The problem is that ESPN hasn't really valued anything to the west for a while except Texas and OU. That's been pretty clear for a while now based on how they've behaved towards the Big12 and why there wasn't much effort to intervene with USC. They moved the money makers out of the Big12 and took a hard pass on USC.

I think what gets forgotten inside this bubble is that ESPN spends a ton of money on the NFL which is the real overlap. They've also been heavily invested in the CFP. They've always been accused of an "east coast bias" and probably wisely so. It's where all the TV's are at.

If it's true that the payout reaches $50 million, then that will solve the problem.

 

[NKSplitter]

At what point can we be confident that the ACC isn't bringing in Stanford & Cal? I feel like this has been talked out enough, and considered long enough, that if something was going to happen, that it would have happened by now...

In my mind it's when we hear a second vote was taken on admitting them and it didn't pass again(which may have already happened and has been kept quiet for all we know).

The talk has been about getting North Carolina and/or NC State to flip to get the vote to pass; but nobody in the media is asking if any of the current yes votes are close to flipping to no votes.

If the "magnificent seven" is real, one would have to figure those schools banded together because they all anticipate having a landing spot outside of the ACC. It seems to me that if enough schools think they have somewhere better to go, or at worst, a slightly sub-lateral move as a hedge against a dying conference, these schools would all lean towards a no vote.

The dream scenario for a school like Florida State is probably that enough schools want to leave that there are enough votes to disband the conference, nullifying exit fees. I doesn't make sense for any school that sees their path forward as outside of the ACC to vote in schools that would want to keep the ACC together.

 

[Joe Magarac]

In my mind it's when we hear a second vote was taken on admitting them and it didn't pass again(which may have already happened and has been kept quiet for all we know).

The talk has been about getting North Carolina and/or NC State to flip to get the vote to pass; but nobody in the media is asking if any of the current yes votes are close to flipping to no votes.

If the "magnificent seven" is real, one would have to figure those schools banded together because they all anticipate having a landing spot outside of the ACC. It seems to me that if enough schools think they have somewhere better to go, or at worst, a slightly sub-lateral move as a hedge against a dying conference, these schools would all lean towards a no vote.

The dream scenario for a school like Florida State is probably that enough schools want to leave that there are enough votes to disband the conference, nullifying exit fees. I doesn't make sense for any school that sees their path forward as outside of the ACC to vote in schools that would want to keep the ACC together.

If it is FFSU’s vision to move forward outside of the ACC then leave. ASAP.
It would be best for all parties if they left, yesterday. Where they land, who cares.
Just pay the agreed upon exit fee(s). Get out and take your fanbase with you.

 

[jivecat]

1. I have commented on this board for numerous years.

2. I have been fascinated with all aspects of conference realignment since OUT left XII. My comments at that time mostly reflected my interest in direction of college football, despite it being a disaster for WVU. I think ACC would be making another mistake by taking those two schools ahead of SMU (especially), USF and Memphis.

3. This is what you want me to say. (I’m able to read others well). You want me to say “because I enjoy watching the instability of the ACC”. There may be a little part of me that thinks that but honestly not a great part of me because it does nothing to benefit WVU (my school). I truly enjoy the banter/debate. Schadenfreude isn’t healthy.

I will contend that if this is what you were getting after, this displays some insecurity on your part as well. And that’s totally ok.

If that’s not what you were getting after (with your leading comment), then ignore this.

Okay....but you created this account less then a week ago. If you drop in every year....what happened to your WVU account?

 

[NTOP]

But last week when the PAC was breaking up the talk was, they might have to cut sports.

If it's an endowment, the draws are Fed ruled. I think 4.5% ???

 

[mlvnsmly]

Okay....but you created this account less then a week ago. If you drop in every year....what happened to your WVU account?

I'm guessing "WVU in Columbus" got banned?

 

[WillyDavis33]

I'm guessing "WVU in Columbus" got banned?

Most likely! We have trolls from Ped U and Hoodie U hanging on our site like they have nothing better to do!

 

[HailToPitt725]

SIAP… looks like expansion is back on the table.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

In my mind it's when we hear a second vote was taken on admitting them and it didn't pass again(which may have already happened and has been kept quiet for all we know).

The talk has been about getting North Carolina and/or NC State to flip to get the vote to pass; but nobody in the media is asking if any of the current yes votes are close to flipping to no votes.

If the "magnificent seven" is real, one would have to figure those schools banded together because they all anticipate having a landing spot outside of the ACC. It seems to me that if enough schools think they have somewhere better to go, or at worst, a slightly sub-lateral move as a hedge against a dying conference, these schools would all lean towards a no vote.

The dream scenario for a school like Florida State is probably that enough schools want to leave that there are enough votes to disband the conference, nullifying exit fees. I doesn't make sense for any school that sees their path forward as outside of the ACC to vote in schools that would want to keep the ACC together.

I do think the antics of the Maga 7 have been expressly aimed to degenerate and devalue the conference so it becomes untenable to continue it, just as you suggest. ESPN needed/needs to get a handle on things. They dumped a lot of resources into establishing the ACCN and can’t let the conference turn into garbage. That extends back to last year (when action should have been taken), but then this Maga 7 and FSU public ranting in the summer should have never been permitted to occur.

Since most if not all the malcontent schools truly want to be in the SEC (and after raiding the PAC, the Big Ten doesn’t even want them anyway), and the SEC’s money (like the ACC) is controlled by ESPN, the clamps should have been put on this nonsense by the network well ahead of the outbursts.

 

[pittdan77]

If it's true that the payout reaches $50 million, then that will solve the problem.

If someone else knows the number, I'd appreciate being corrected. Just recall reading that somewhere. And I don't think that "solves" anything for the greediest of the conference but it firmly puts the ACC in a preferred place when looking at whether anyone else makes sense if you lose one or two.

 

[topdecktiger]

If someone else knows the number, I'd appreciate being corrected. Just recall reading that somewhere. And I don't think that "solves" anything for the greediest of the conference but it firmly puts the ACC in a preferred place when looking at whether anyone else makes sense if you lose one or two.

The number may be correct. The money from the network can increase with more subscribers.

If that happens, then yes it would solve the problem. The reason Clemson and Florida St. are trying to leave is strictly because they fear falling to far financially behind the in-state SEC schools. If the finances can stay within earshot, as they have been up until now, none of these schools would leave.

 

[CrazyPaco]

If someone else knows the number, I'd appreciate being corrected. Just recall reading that somewhere. And I don't think that "solves" anything for the greediest of the conference but it firmly puts the ACC in a preferred place when looking at whether anyone else makes sense if you lose one or two.

The only real numbers we have are from 2021-22 and that was already almost $40m per team for the ACC. It will go up every year, and the ACCN will bring in a little more with Comcast, but will vary some depending on whether the Orange Bowl, NCAA tournament credits, CFP, etc. Calford is going to add a chunk though. The current makeup of the ACC will be out in front of the B12 easily, with more attractive football and academic brands. So, depending on who sticks together, it could be in a good position to poach the B12 when their contract is up in 2030. Who might be attractive will depend on who is still in the conference, but I could see the four corners, Baylor, (and if SMU doesn't get in) TCU; maybe Kansas.

 

[NKSplitter]

SIAP… looks like expansion is back on the table.

View embedded media

"A small group of ACC presidents" I'm curious how small of a group we are talking here. If it's less the half; then doesn't seem like there is a high level of interest in seeing if there are scenerios where the additions make sense.

 

[CrazyPaco]

The number may be correct. The money from the network can increase with more subscribers.

If that happens, then yes it would solve the problem. The reason Clemson and Florida St. are trying to leave is strictly because they fear falling to far financially behind the in-state SEC schools. If the finances can stay within earshot, as they have been up until now, none of these schools would leave.

I believe that might be true for Clemson. I don't think FSU will be satisfied even with equivalent money.

 

[HailToPitt725]

The only real numbers we have are from 2021-22 and that was already almost $40m per team for the ACC. It will go up every year, and the ACCN will bring in a little more with Comcast, but will very some depending on whether the Orange Bowl, NCAA tournament credits, CFP, etc. Calford is going to add a chunk though. The ACC will be out in front of the B12 easily, with more attractive brands. So, depending on who sticks together, it could be in a good position to poach the B12 when their contract is up in 2030. Who might be attractive will depend on who is still in the conference, but I could see the four corners, Baylor, (and if SMU doesn't get in) TCU; maybe Kansas.

The four corners plus Kansas (assuming Cal/Stanford/SMU join to make it 17) would be my choice. KU will be a solid option by then. They’d bring the Kansas City market (), have the best basketball program in the country, and are investing serious $$$ into football ($300M stadium/facility renovations). We’d be coast-to-coast at that point. Heck, I wouldn’t mind doubling down on DFW and bringing in TCU as well.

 

[CrazyPaco]

"A small group of ACC presidents" I'm curious how small of a group we are talking here. If it's less the half; then doesn't seem like there is a high level of interest in seeing if there are scenerios where the additions make sense.

Probably a committee. It would be normal to have a committee working on it.

 

[WillyDavis33]

The number may be correct. The money from the network can increase with more subscribers.

If that happens, then yes it would solve the problem. The reason Clemson and Florida St. are trying to leave is strictly because they fear falling to far financially behind the in-state SEC schools. If the finances can stay within earshot, as they have been up until now, none of these schools would leave.

This makes sense and no way FSU and Clemson want to get their brains beaten in by AL, GA and the like in the SEC

 

[CrazyPaco]

The four corners plus Kansas (assuming Cal/Stanford/SMU join to make it 17) would be my choice. KU will be a solid option by then. They’d bring the Kansas City market (), have the best basketball program in the country, and are investing serious $$$ into football ($300M stadium/facility renovations). We’d be coast-to-coast at that point. Heck, I wouldn’t mind doubling down on DFW and bringing in TCU as well.

I think they'll eventually want more west coast presence if Calford comes. One of the big things is going to be where sports and streaming are, including what the heck will be going on with ESPN. So much can change by then.

I've seen some crazy rumors of ideas floated including a possible ND angle, but I doubt those ideas have any real traction.