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The Pirates are doing it again...

YourPittDanceTeam

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Dec 8, 2010
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It seems that every year the Pirates enter the season with very low expectations for the upcoming season. Usually the number of wins projected for that team is in the area of 60-65. They then spend the first third or so of that season playing baseball that is above the expectations for that team, usually finding themselves near the .500 mark or slightly above that. Local media and fans begin to get excited about a team that has over produced. They will make a couple of meaningless trades where they trade away a player or two that have produced well to that point of the season.
Then in the middle third of the season, they usually find themselves playing losing baseball that eventually drops them to 15-20 games below the .500 mark by the All-Star break. It is at that point when the Pirates management begins to show their true colors. They usually make a couple of moves that in their words will strengthen the team. In reality most of the time, these are usually just money saving maneuvers for the organization. Fans and local media begin to question the rationale behind some of these moves.They continue to trade away players who have done well to that point and get back a couple of relief pitchers in return.
During the final third of the season, reality sinks in for the organization as the MLB trading deadline approaches. The Pirates usually go out and trade away a couple of the better veteran players on the team. In return they usually get some additional relief pitching and young players whom most of us have never heard of. They will say that it is to help improve the team for future years, but in reality, it is again a money savings move by the Pirates. By the time the season ends, the Pirates find themselves right where most baseball experts predicted they would be at the start of the season, 35-40 games below the .500 mark.
The local fans are left disappointed and the local media will again try to prop up the hopes of those disappointed fans for next year.
It is because of this vicious cycle that the Pirates put their fans each year, that I do not support the team by going to games. Just once, I'd like to see the team go out and do something different. Maybe get a couple of MLB players who are not over the hill or even, my God, dare I say it...are actually MLB stars in the prime of their careers.
Could you imagine the fan interest and attendance numbers that would be coming out of PNC Park if they had a player like Trea Turner, Paul Goldschmidt, Aaron Judge or Juan Soto on the team??? Heck, I'd even settle for a player like Kyle Schwarber or Joc Pederson.
As they say at Walt Disney World, "Dreams Can Come True".
We can only hope.
 
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It seems that every year the Pirates enter the season with very low expectations for the upcoming season. Usually the number of wins projected for that team is in the area of 60-65. They then spend the first third or so of that season playing baseball that is above the expectations for that team, usually finding themselves near the .500 mark or slightly above that. Local media and fans begin to get excited about a team that has over produced. They will make a couple of meaningless trades where they trade away a player or two that have produced well to that point of the season.
Then in the middle third of the season, they usually find themselves playing losing baseball that eventually drops them to 15-20 games below the .500 mark by the All-Star break. It is at that point when the Pirates management begins to show their true colors. They usually make a couple of moves that in their words will strengthen the team. In reality most of the time, these are usually just money saving maneuvers for the organization. Fans and local media begin to question the rationale behind some of these moves.They continue to trade away players who have done well to that point and get back a couple of relief pitchers in return.
During the final third of the season, reality sinks in for the organization as the MLB trading deadline approaches. The Pirates usually go out and trade away a couple of the better veteran players on the team. In return they usually get some additional relief pitching and young players whom most of us have never heard of. They will say that it is to help improve the team for future years, but in reality, it is again a money savings move by the Pirates. By the time the season ends, the Pirates find themselves right where most baseball experts predicted they would be at the start of the season, 35-40 games below the .500 mark.
The local fans are left disappointed and the local media will again try to prop up the hopes of those disappointed fans for next year.
It is because of this vicious cycle that the Pirates put their fans each year, that I do not support the team by going to games. Just once, I'd like to see the team go out and do something different. Maybe get a couple of MLB players who are not over the hill or even, my God, dare I say it...are actually MLB stars in the prime of their careers.
Could you imagine the fan interest and attendance numbers that would be coming out of PNC Park if they had a player like Trea Turner, Paul Goldschmidt, Aaron Judge or Juan Soto on the team??? Heck, I'd even settle for a player like Kyle Schwarber or Joc Pederson.
As they say at Walt Disney World, "Dreams Can Come True".
We can only hope.
The Pirates were NEVER expected to be anything other than rebuilding this year. Zero expectations. I look for a team that can approach .500 in '24 and possibly contend in '25. Just being realistic. The future is still in the minors.
 
The Pirates were NEVER expected to be anything other than rebuilding this year. Zero expectations. I look for a team that can approach .500 in '24 and possibly contend in '25. Just being realistic. The future is still in the minors.

And the future is still pretty bright. They just need some higher end pitching to get to the majors without injury setbacks.
 
It seems that every year the Pirates enter the season with very low expectations for the upcoming season. Usually the number of wins projected for that team is in the area of 60-65. They then spend the first third or so of that season playing baseball that is above the expectations for that team, usually finding themselves near the .500 mark or slightly above that. Local media and fans begin to get excited about a team that has over produced. They will make a couple of meaningless trades where they trade away a player or two that have produced well to that point of the season.
Then in the middle third of the season, they usually find themselves playing losing baseball that eventually drops them to 15-20 games below the .500 mark by the All-Star break. It is at that point when the Pirates management begins to show their true colors. They usually make a couple of moves that in their words will strengthen the team. In reality most of the time, these are usually just money saving maneuvers for the organization. Fans and local media begin to question the rationale behind some of these moves.They continue to trade away players who have done well to that point and get back a couple of relief pitchers in return.
During the final third of the season, reality sinks in for the organization as the MLB trading deadline approaches. The Pirates usually go out and trade away a couple of the better veteran players on the team. In return they usually get some additional relief pitching and young players whom most of us have never heard of. They will say that it is to help improve the team for future years, but in reality, it is again a money savings move by the Pirates. By the time the season ends, the Pirates find themselves right where most baseball experts predicted they would be at the start of the season, 35-40 games below the .500 mark.
The local fans are left disappointed and the local media will again try to prop up the hopes of those disappointed fans for next year.
It is because of this vicious cycle that the Pirates put their fans each year, that I do not support the team by going to games. Just once, I'd like to see the team go out and do something different. Maybe get a couple of MLB players who are not over the hill or even, my God, dare I say it...are actually MLB stars in the prime of their careers.
Could you imagine the fan interest and attendance numbers that would be coming out of PNC Park if they had a player like Trea Turner, Paul Goldschmidt, Aaron Judge or Juan Soto on the team??? Heck, I'd even settle for a player like Kyle Schwarber or Joc Pederson.
As they say at Walt Disney World, "Dreams Can Come True".
We can only hope.
What did you want them to do, trade say Cruz, Hayes, Priester and Davis for Juan Soto? The Angels have Otani and Trout and still can't win.
 
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I'm just glad we traded for another infield prospect /s
We're a little thin there in the minors
 
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He's a 1B prospect in reality. We need more of those. Don't need anymore middle infielders.

He has over 30 errors in 2 seasons in the minors with St. Louis. And if you think the Pirates awful coaches will be able to develop this kid and make him better you're dreaming.

The development in this organization is surely lacking. Hayes has regressed, Cruz can barely hit .200. Reynolds had 1 good month so far the whole season. Suwinski was 0 for 29 before he got sent down. Diego Castillo was hitting. 200 before he got sent down as well.

I mean, this hitting coach Andy Haines is dreadful but so are most of the coaches they have throughout the minors. Nobody gets better. Wait I mean nobody gets better until they leave this toxic franchise.
 
He's a 1B prospect in reality. We need more of those. Don't need anymore middle infielders.

Really? Because I'm reading that may be where Davis ends up. We've got a glut of outfielders almost major league ready and only 3 spots to put them
 
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He has over 30 errors in 2 seasons in the minors with St. Louis. And if you think the Pirates awful coaches will be able to develop this kid and make him better you're dreaming.

The development in this organization is surely lacking. Hayes has regressed, Cruz can barely hit .200. Reynolds had 1 good month so far the whole season. Suwinski was 0 for 29 before he got sent down. Diego Castillo was hitting. 200 before he got sent down as well.

I mean, this hitting coach Andy Haines is dreadful but so are most of the coaches they have throughout the minors. Nobody gets better. Wait I mean nobody gets better until they leave this toxic franchise.

Don't disagree that this franchise is toxic, but even if this guy has a possibility of being our future DH it's better than keeping Quintana for two more months so we only lose 99 games instead of 101. And then we got a pitcher on top of that who may or may not have a role on this team someday. It's just a move that had to be made.
 
He has over 30 errors in 2 seasons in the minors with St. Louis. And if you think the Pirates awful coaches will be able to develop this kid and make him better you're dreaming.

The development in this organization is surely lacking. Hayes has regressed, Cruz can barely hit .200. Reynolds had 1 good month so far the whole season. Suwinski was 0 for 29 before he got sent down. Diego Castillo was hitting. 200 before he got sent down as well.

I mean, this hitting coach Andy Haines is dreadful but so are most of the coaches they have throughout the minors. Nobody gets better. Wait I mean nobody gets better until they leave this toxic franchise.

Most of those were at 3B. Only 3 errors in 60+ games after they moved him to 1B this year. That is pretty good.
 
I'd be infuriated if the Pirates weren't trading their veterans for young pieces right now. What the hell does a last place team need guys like Quintana for?
If the Pirates were really going to be competitive by 2024 I would have liked Quintana to be signed to a 3 year Liriano type deal. The Pirates need good pitchers and Quintana could have been a nice veteran type to help the younger kids. Plus he has pitched well.

However, since the Pirates are still so far away from contending and the owner is content not spending any money to expedite the process at all, then yeah trade him which they did.

In 2024 they'll still lose 95 games because they have literally made zero progress at all since Ben Cherington took over. Just the way Bob Nutting likes it.
 
Really? Because I'm reading that may end up being where Davis ends up. We've got a glut of outfielders almost major league ready and only 3 spots to put them

I think Davis ends up there if he can't stay healthy. But I think they are a ways off from having to make that move yet.
 
If the Pirates were really going to be competitive by 2024 I would have liked Quintana to be signed to a 3 year Liriano type deal. The Pirates need good pitchers and Quintana could have been a nice veteran type to help the younger kids. Plus he has pitched well.

However, since the Pirates are still so far away from contending and the owner is content not spending any money to expedite the process at all, then yeah trade him which they did.

In 2024 they'll still lose 95 games because they have literally made zero progress at all since Ben Cherington took over. Just the way Bob Nutting likes it.

In theory, though, trading him away for the rest of this season doesn't preclude them from re-signing him anyway. It won't happen either way, because he's 33 years old and will probably get a nice 2-year contract now. But I'm just saying: As far as 2022 goes, it's only about having him for two more months.
 
I think Davis ends up there if he can't stay healthy. But I think they are a ways off from having to make that move yet.

Then you've got Endy Rodriguez,Mason Martin and I'm not going to run through their entire minor league roster to see who else has that positional flexibility.

In a nutshell I would have preferred one pitcher with a pretty high ceiling as a single piece.
Maybe they tried,we don't know.
 
If the Pirates were really going to be competitive by 2024 I would have liked Quintana to be signed to a 3 year Liriano type deal. The Pirates need good pitchers and Quintana could have been a nice veteran type to help the younger kids. Plus he has pitched well.

However, since the Pirates are still so far away from contending and the owner is content not spending any money to expedite the process at all, then yeah trade him which they did.

In 2024 they'll still lose 95 games because they have literally made zero progress at all since Ben Cherington took over. Just the way Bob Nutting likes it.

Would have been nice to keep Quintana. But his shakiness prior to this year and his reputation for coming up small in high pressure situations (not sure if fair but that's the reputation) might have made something long term risky. But if you could have gotten him for 3/15, sure. I'm sure he'll be looking for more in the off-season. Then again, nothing stopping him from coming back after this year
 
Then you've got Endy Rodriguez,Mason Martin and I'm not going to run through their entire minor league roster to see who else has that positional flexibility.

In a nutshell I would have preferred one pitcher with a pretty high ceiling as a single piece.
Maybe they tried,we don't know.

Mason Martin is looking like a bust and Rodriguez is still a ways off. Need to have some options at 1B. But I do agree that we need more high end pitching help. Weren't likely to get it for Quintana though. They might be able to eventually need to start dealing from positions of strength (middle infield prospects).
 
I'm not sure if you're Quintana you want to re-sign again with a struggling team to have to uproot yourself possibly again the end of next July.
That's always a possibility anywhere but no where more likely here.
 
Mason Martin is looking like a bust and Rodriguez is still a ways off. Need to have some options at 1B. But I do agree that we need more high end pitching help. Weren't likely to get it for Quintana though. They might be able to eventually need to start dealing from positions of strength (middle infield prospects).

I'm not sure how at 23 this interprets as "looking like a bust" in 2021.

(Martin led all Pittsburgh minor leaguers in home runs (25) and runs batted in (81), while also striking out 171 times over 439 at-bats.[19] He returned to the Indians to begin the 2022 season.[20])

That includes all the guys that have been up here. Cruz,Sluwinski,Mitchell,Madris at least one a few years older.

Those stats compare favorably to Nunez 2021 season at age 21 except his strikeouts look lower.
But so do his power numbers.
 
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I'm not sure how at 23 this interprets as "looking like a bust" in 2021.

(Martin led all Pittsburgh minor leaguers in home runs (25) and runs batted in (81), while also striking out 171 times over 439 at-bats.[19] He returned to the Indians to begin the 2022 season.[20])

That includes all the guys that have been up here. Cruz,Sluwinski,Mitchell,Madris at least one a few years older.

Those stats compare favorably to Nunez 2021 season at age 21 except his strikeouts look lower.
But so do his power numbers.

I'd agree with you based on their similarities at age 21. But Martin is having an awful season at the wrong time. Hopefully he can turn it around at AAA in 23. Maybe bust was a strong word but his stock is definitely way down.
 
The Pirates stink. Same thing year after year. Make Cruz out to be the new hero, but totally blew another game Saturday night (picked off 2nd in the 10th, struck out on 3 pitches in bottom of ninth). More of the same. It is criminal what Bob Nutting has done. Even more criminal is the lack of accountability. Joe Starkey feels compelled to write about boastful things a coach who actually won a championship has to say rather than the total ineptitude of the franchise.
 
The only thing remarkable about the Pirates is that they still have people willing to defend every "rebuild" as if that's really what is happening. It's not. They're just trying to slide into the bottom of a watered down playoff to generate enough momentum to get them through the next set of budget moves. Nothing is happening that will resemble a playoff run. Pirate fans have Stockholm Syndrome.
 
If the Pirates were really going to be competitive by 2024 I would have liked Quintana to be signed to a 3 year Liriano type deal. The Pirates need good pitchers and Quintana could have been a nice veteran type to help the younger kids. Plus he has pitched well.

However, since the Pirates are still so far away from contending and the owner is content not spending any money to expedite the process at all, then yeah trade him which they did.

In 2024 they'll still lose 95 games because they have literally made zero progress at all since Ben Cherington took over. Just the way Bob Nutting likes it.
You can always pick up a Quintana. What you can't do, is what the Pirates did at the end of their run, and replace guys like Cole and Happ with more Quintana's.
 
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You can always pick up a Quintana. What you can't do, is what the Pirates did at the end of their run, and replace guys like Cole and Happ with more Quintana's.

It would have been nice if they had replaced those guys with even Quintanas. They unfortunately replaced them with guys like Niese and Vogelbach. Still pissed that they let that team die after 15 and then made the dumb Archer trade years too late.
 
Give Quintana three years? Have you been sniffing the coke towers at Clairton?

This has been on hell of a job by the Bucs this year. They got a washed up has-been to the deadline and spun it into something. How many times has he gone three times through the batting order this year? Once? I get it, everybody loves to spend everybody else's money. But you would be flushing 10 mil if you gave out that kind of contract.
 
I'd be infuriated if the Pirates weren't trading their veterans for young pieces right now. What the hell does a last place team need guys like Quintana for?
Yeah, I think the idea behind signing guys like that are to flip them at the deadline. Also, I’d be sad to see Bednar leave but the Hader trade might be an indication that it’s a seller’s market for relief pitchers.
 
Give Quintana three years? Have you been sniffing the coke towers at Clairton?

This has been on hell of a job by the Bucs this year. They got a washed up has-been to the deadline and spun it into something. How many times has he gone three times through the batting order this year? Once? I get it, everybody loves to spend everybody else's money. But you would be flushing 10 mil if you gave out that kind of contract.

Holy cow Batman! Someone here actually knows baseball.
 
I'd be infuriated if the Pirates weren't trading their veterans for young pieces right now. What the hell does a last place team need guys like Quintana for?
If this was a "normal" MLB team, I'd agree with you. Unfortunately, this is the Pirates that we are talking about. They are ALWAYS giving up veteran players in trades to get potentially young talent or over the hill stiffs, ALWAYS!! When do the Pirates keep some of the little MLB talent on they have on their roster. I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that Brian Reynolds, O"neil Cruz and Ke'Bryan Hayes will not be on this roster in 5 years.
Why is David Bednar still on this team? If there is a player that the Pirates do not need, it would be a "closer". The team is horrible, why do they need a "closer" to win 60-65 games? Should have traded him to a contender. The organization is a mess and will continue to be so until the fans in Pittsburgh help show nutting the door.
 
The Pirates were NEVER expected to be anything other than rebuilding this year. Zero expectations. I look for a team that can approach .500 in '24 and possibly contend in '25. Just being realistic. The future is still in the minors.
The Pirates are ALWAYS in a rebuilding year, ALWAYS!! When does nutting spend the money to allow them to become a contender? He didn't do it in 2013 when they had a chance to win it all. I seriously doubt that they will contend in 2025 or any time soon after that AND is approaching the .500 mark the ultimate goal for the PIrates? I hope not.
 
They just traded away a guy who is going to be a free agent at the end of the season and who is, at best, a middle of the rotation starter on a good team (at best). And that's what's got you upset?
No I'm upset because Hayes went 0 for 3 again and stinks. I'm upset because Josh VanMeter and Yoshi Tsutsugo are still on the team and VanMeter started tonight. I'm upset because Reynolds hasn't gotten a hit in his last 15 at-bats and aside from a few weeks in June he has sucked the whole season.
 
No I'm upset because Hayes went 0 for 3 again and stinks. I'm upset because Josh VanMeter and Yoshi Tsutsugo are still on the team and VanMeter started tonight. I'm upset because Reynolds hasn't gotten a hit in his last 15 at-bats and aside from a few weeks in June he has sucked the whole season.


I would be surprised if now that the trade deadline has passed if there aren't a couple of those guys who are gone in the next couple of days.
 
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They just traded away a guy who is going to be a free agent at the end of the season and who is, at best, a middle of the rotation starter on a good team (at best). And that's what's got you upset?
Nope, I'm upset because they do this every year. The Pirates have gotten to the point where they and sadly, a number of their fans, will call a .500 season, a success. I'm willing to bet you that player that you spoke of who they just traded away, will go to his new team and flourish there.
All you have to do is take a quick look around the league to see MLB All-Stars that the Pirates had and traded away. Their roster, for the most part, always seems to be made up of middle of the road MLB level talent. Players that would be backups on most MLB teams. When they do get lucky and have one of their young stars show any potential, they usually get rid of them as soon as possible.
 
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