The QB position and PN

[Saboteur II]

I don’t attend or watch practice. I’m not on the team and don’t know anyone on the team so all my observations on PN and QBs is based on “on field” performance.
The GROWN ASS MAN was a disaster and it is impossible to believe his arm was any better in practice than his horrible game performance.
DUGGAR was heads and tails better than anyone behind Holstein. Only PNs fears kept us from beating Toledo.
NATE was a tough guy but obviously not a D1 QB.
NICK P was a game player.
My point is this. With PN at the helm, our ability to judge QBs is pretty damn bad.
2025 is my last chance for thin skinned PN. If you cannot get good QB play, you are cannon fodder and if you can’t protect your QB you are a Scooby Snack.
You almost have to try to be as bad as we have been in QB play and if Holstein goes down and we line up another nag behind center, apathy will again rule the day.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I don’t attend or watch practice. I’m not on the team and don’t know anyone on the team so all my observations on PN and QBs is based on “on field” performance.
The GROWN ASS MAN was a disaster and it is impossible to believe his arm was any better in practice than his horrible game performance.
DUGGAR was heads and tails better than anyone behind Holstein. Only PNs fears kept us from beating Toledo.
NATE was a tough guy but obviously not a D1 QB.
NICK P was a game player.
My point is this. With PN at the helm, our ability to judge QBs is pretty damn bad.
2025 is my last chance for thin skinned PN. If you cannot get good QB play, you are cannon fodder and if you can’t protect your QB you are a Scooby Snack.
You almost have to try to be as bad as we have been in QB play and if Holstein goes down and we line up another nag behind center, apathy will again rule the day.

He also felt Gavin Bartholomew was the best QB available to throw a pass to a DT on 3rd and Goal from the 1 against a MAC team.

I usually say the coaches watch these guys in practice and they know but he has been very bad at QB evaluation.

 

[9782978]

Like most DC’s that become head coaches at any level, their success or failure depends on their ability to attract and retain good OC’s. Good OC’s move on after a couple of good years. In today’s Offense/QB dominated football world, you MUST, at any level, hire an HC who is/was a good OC, AND retain that individual. Heather, Chancellor, and BOT did the exact opposite and locked us into a long-term expensive contract with a HC/DC.

 

[cashisking884]

Like most DC’s that become head coaches at any level, their success or failure depends on their ability to attract and retain good OC’s. Good OC’s move on after a couple of good years. In today’s Offense/QB dominated football world, you MUST, at any level, hire an HC who is/was a good OC, AND retain that individual. Heather, Chancellor, and BOT did the exact opposite and locked us into a long-term expensive contract with a HC/DC.

A DC as a head coach hire works better if the DC is an elite recruiter, and the school is capable of maximizing his elite recruiting ability.

Saban
Kirby Smart
Dan Lanning


Even Saban, with all that elite recruiting, eventually had to abandon the style of offense he wanted and adopt a more wide open, “score, score, score” approach. Because he couldn’t stop teams from scoring enough to make his style work anymore.

 

[thebadby2]

A DC as a head coach hire works better if the DC is an elite recruiter, and the school is capable of maximizing his elite recruiting ability.

Saban
Kirby Smart
Dan Lanning


Even Saban, with all that elite recruiting, eventually had to abandon the style of offense he wanted and adopt a more wide open, “score, score, score” approach. Because he couldn’t stop teams from scoring enough to make his style work anymore.

Because he couldn’t stop teams from scoring enough to make his style work anymore

Well, I don't quite agree with that--at the time he made the offensive change Bama was coming off another NC with a game manager QB and an elite, dominant, NFL-loaded defense---but like any great coach, he saw the way offense was evolving, what was coming, and got on the front end of it.

Adapt or die.

 

[Islanderpanther]

Narduzzi knowledge about O, offensive play calling and offensive personnel…..zippo from the get go and he’s not bolstered his knowledge in any of these areas. Latest evidence of this is the Toledo game…choice of starting QB and play calling was horrendous.

 

[TD_6082]

I don’t attend or watch practice. I’m not on the team and don’t know anyone on the team so all my observations on PN and QBs is based on “on field” performance.
The GROWN ASS MAN was a disaster and it is impossible to believe his arm was any better in practice than his horrible game performance.
DUGGAR was heads and tails better than anyone behind Holstein. Only PNs fears kept us from beating Toledo.
NATE was a tough guy but obviously not a D1 QB.
NICK P was a game player.
My point is this. With PN at the helm, our ability to judge QBs is pretty damn bad.
2025 is my last chance for thin skinned PN. If you cannot get good QB play, you are cannon fodder and if you can’t protect your QB you are a Scooby Snack.
You almost have to try to be as bad as we have been in QB play and if Holstein goes down and we line up another nag behind center, apathy will again rule the day.

Tbh, I think you suffer from Narduzzi fatigue and just looking for something to be overly critical about. QB evaluation isn't exactly an exact science, and even with the so-called 5-star elite recruits, there are more busts than not.

Narduzzi, being the head coach is ultimately responsible for the product on the field. And I think QB play under his tenure has been okay. It's mostly been a mixed bag. We've had good, bad and mediocre. Peterman & Pickett worked out nicely, Slovis was mid, and Jurk/Browne were disasters.

And no, Duggar wasn't better than anyone behind Holstein.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

I've been to practice and Duggar would make one outstanding play and then spend the next 3 looking like he should probably play another position.

It sort of reminded me of the Flacco situation when he was here. Dugger was behind where Flacco was a the same stage by quite a bit. Like Flacco, he never had command of the offense from both a physical and mental standpoint. He'd look like an all pro for a series and the next he'd have WR's ready to take a swing at him.

 

[Las Panteras]

In today’s Offense/QB dominated football world, you MUST, at any level, hire an HC who is/was a good OC, AND retain that individual. Heather, Chancellor, and BOT did the exact opposite and locked us into a long-term expensive contract with a HC/DC.

So we wish Paul Chryst was still here?

 

[TD_6082]

Like most DC’s that become head coaches at any level, their success or failure depends on their ability to attract and retain good OC’s. Good OC’s move on after a couple of good years. In today’s Offense/QB dominated football world, you MUST, at any level, hire an HC who is/was a good OC, AND retain that individual. Heather, Chancellor, and BOT did the exact opposite and locked us into a long-term expensive contract with a HC/DC.

Only it's really not Offense/QB dominated. That's a myth.

College football is truly a team sport and all about talent. It starts first and foremost at the line of scrimmage. Elite teams have dominant line play. The title game this year featured Will Howard & Riley Leonard at QB. UGA recently won back to back with a walk-on QB that circled back to UGA after playing at Jones College.

There is no MUST primary background for a HC. You can have success or failure with either.

 

[cashisking884]

With the top programs, all you need is an elite recruiter. With enough talent, you can hire Mike Bobo as OC and start a walk-on and still dominate.

I don’t think it’s true at lower level schools that it can just as easily be a defensive or offensive guy.
Defensive rankings year to year correlate far more with recruiting classes than offensive rankings. It’s difficult to sustain very good to elite defense year to year with low level 4* and 3* players. You need a “system.” Art Briles’ Veer and Shoot gave Baylor sustained success longer than any defensive system would have.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

You need a “system.” Art Briles’ Veer and Shoot gave Baylor sustained success longer than any defensive system would have.

I would counter Norm and Phil Parker's defensive system at Iowa was/is just as effective at creating long term success.

 

[12162022]

I don’t attend or watch practice. I’m not on the team and don’t know anyone on the team so all my observations on PN and QBs is based on “on field” performance.
The GROWN ASS MAN was a disaster and it is impossible to believe his arm was any better in practice than his horrible game performance.
DUGGAR was heads and tails better than anyone behind Holstein. Only PNs fears kept us from beating Toledo.
NATE was a tough guy but obviously not a D1 QB.
NICK P was a game player.
My point is this. With PN at the helm, our ability to judge QBs is pretty damn bad.
2025 is my last chance for thin skinned PN. If you cannot get good QB play, you are cannon fodder and if you can’t protect your QB you are a Scooby Snack.
You almost have to try to be as bad as we have been in QB play and if Holstein goes down and we line up another nag behind center, apathy will again rule the day.

Hey goofball.....Pickett wasn't too bad. Holstein w/o the injuries would have been ACC rookie of the year. Dugger may end up at WR.
Have a nice day. Go to the Zoo.

 

[TD_6082]

A DC as a head coach hire works better if the DC is an elite recruiter, and the school is capable of maximizing his elite recruiting ability.

Saban
Kirby Smart
Dan Lanning


Even Saban, with all that elite recruiting, eventually had to abandon the style of offense he wanted and adopt a more wide open, “score, score, score” approach. Because he couldn’t stop teams from scoring enough to make his style work anymore.

Because he couldn’t stop teams from scoring enough to make his style work anymore

Well, I don't quite agree with that--at the time he made the offensive change Bama was coming off another NC with a game manager QB and an elite, dominant, NFL-loaded defense---but like any great coach, he saw the way offense was evolving, what was coming, and got on the front end of it.

Adapt or die.

And while we're all throwing bouquets at Saban for changing his style of offense, Kirby Smart & UGA replaced Bama as the dominant program in the SEC and did it with the style of play Saban abandoned.

 

[TD_6082]

With the top programs, all you need is an elite recruiter. With enough talent, you can hire Mike Bobo as OC and start a walk-on and still dominate.

I don’t think it’s true at lower level schools that it can just as easily be a defensive or offensive guy.
Defensive rankings year to year correlate far more with recruiting classes than offensive rankings. It’s difficult to sustain very good to elite defense year to year with low level 4* and 3* players. You need a “system.” Art Briles’ Veer and Shoot gave Baylor sustained success longer than any defensive system would have.

Several top programs have failed with elite recruiters. Luke Fickell had sustained success at UC.

Heck, with enough talent, even Ed Orgeron (a defensive guy, btw) can win a Natty. You could probably argue that he coached the greatest college team of all time.

There really is no blanket formula. FSU thought they bought themselves a guarantee with Jimbo Fisher. Ditto for Miami with Mario Cristobal. Throwing excessive amounts of money certainly raises a program's floor a whole helluva lot. It's not a guarantee it will take you where you want to go. Big money at The U and Ole Miss went all in for 2024 and came far short of where they wanted to go.

 

[9782978]

If you hire and retain a decent HC/OC, you avoid the inevitable churning of OC’s every 2-3 years that occurs with an HC/DC, especially when the HC/DC is locked in long term and the OC has little or no chance of ever being HC. Under my theory, we will have Kade Bell for only 1-2 more seasons unless we take a flyer and sever PN and replace him with Kade.

 

[cashisking884]

I would counter Norm and Phil Parker's defensive system at Iowa was/is just as effective at creating long term success.

But that’s somewhat because they played a schedule every year where none of the teams would try to score.

 

[cashisking884]

Several top programs have failed with elite recruiters. Luke Fickell had sustained success at UC.

Heck, with enough talent, even Ed Orgeron (a defensive guy, btw) can win a Natty. You could probably argue that he coached the greatest college team of all time.

There really is no blanket formula. FSU thought they bought themselves a guarantee with Jimbo Fisher. Ditto for Miami with Mario Cristobal. Throwing excessive amounts of money certainly raises a program's floor a whole helluva lot. It's not a guarantee it will take you where you want to go. Big money at The U and Ole Miss went all in for 2024 and came far short of where they wanted to go.

Fickell had success. I wouldn’t say it was sustained that long.

And Fickell kinda proves the point. When you look at that UC staff, they didn’t come along with Fickell to UW. They are now at schools above UW. That ND operation is almost entirely made up of the UC staff. When they left him, he went to sh*t. Which is the concern people are making about a DC HC.

And I’m not sure what you mean with the other examples. Jimbo won a national title. Mario in year 3 took Miami to a level it hasn’t been in a while. And they are in everybody’s top 25 this year, some having them Top 5.

They kind of prove my point as well. The “recruiter” is probably the safest hire for long term because they raise the floor.

 

[TD_6082]

Fickell had success. I wouldn’t say it was sustained that long.

And Fickell kinda proves the point. When you look at that UC staff, they didn’t come along with Fickell to UW. They are now at schools above UW. That ND operation is almost entirely made up of the UC staff. When they left him, he went to sh*t. Which is the concern people are making about a DC HC.

And I’m not sure what you mean with the other examples. Jimbo won a national title. Mario in year 3 took Miami to a level it hasn’t been in a while. And they are in everybody’s top 25 this year, some having them Top 5.

They kind of prove my point as well. The “recruiter” is probably the safest hire for long term because they raise the floor.

I don't think it's as much recruiter as it is spending insane amounts of money. Anyone that spends the amounts TAMU & The U are spending are going to raise the floor, regardless of who is coaching. ND hired Freeman, who was the DC under Fickell.

I don't think there's a Miami fan alive that would describe their 2024 season as anything but a huge disappointment. They expect a National Title. That's what they think they are paying for & eventually going to get from Mario.

 

[cashisking884]

I don't think it's as much recruiter as it is spending insane amounts of money. Anyone that spends the amounts TAMU & The U are spending are going to raise the floor, regardless of who is coaching. ND hired Freeman, who was the DC under Fickell.

I don't think there's a Miami fan alive that would describe their 2024 season as anything but a huge disappointment. They expect a National Title. That's what they think they are paying for & eventually going to get from Mario.

FSU wasnt spending insane amounts of money with Jimbo.
Jimbo had a good, sustained run at FSU. That included a national title. You can’t really say he’s a cautionary tale for hiring an offensive first HC.

You think Miami fans expected a national title in Year 3 of a rebuild? What did Vegas have their win total going into 2024? Couldn’t have been national title contender level.

I think if you told Miami fans, “you’re going to win 10+ regular season games each year, be in the top 10 most of the year, and go into the last game of the regular season with a playoff berth on the line,” they are probably signing up for that.

I’d agree that if that’s the best season Cristobal is ever going to have, and there’s going to be a lot of bad mixed in, then yeah, that’s disappointing. But dude has had *two* full recruiting classes. He hasn’t even played with an upperclassmen recruit of his yet.

I don’t know. I think there’s a lot to like projecting forward as the roster balances out with talent, if that’s what they are getting with two recruiting classes.

 

[Saboteur II]

Hey goofball.....Pickett wasn't too bad. Holstein w/o the injuries would have been ACC rookie of the year. Dugger may end up at WR.
Have a nice day. Go to the Zoo.

The first sign of a loosing argument is resorting to name calling.
After that it took KP a long time to develop. Holstein wasn’t rookie of the year and Duggar winding up at WR is a guess.
I won’t reply with an insult, I’ll simply follow the advice of Mark Twain on arguing with people of your type.

 

[12162022]

The first sign of a loosing argument is resorting to name calling.
After that it took KP a long time to develop. Holstein wasn’t rookie of the year and Duggar winding up at WR is a guess.
I won’t reply with an insult, I’ll simply follow the advice of Mark Twain on arguing with people of your type.

OK Princess.

 

[TD_6082]

FSU wasnt spending insane amounts of money with Jimbo.
Jimbo had a good, sustained run at FSU. That included a national title. You can’t really say he’s a cautionary tale for hiring an offensive first HC.

You think Miami fans expected a national title in Year 3 of a rebuild? What did Vegas have their win total going into 2024? Couldn’t have been national title contender level.

I think if you told Miami fans, “you’re going to win 10+ regular season games each year, be in the top 10 most of the year, and go into the last game of the regular season with a playoff berth on the line,” they are probably signing up for that.

I’d agree that if that’s the best season Cristobal is ever going to have, and there’s going to be a lot of bad mixed in, then yeah, that’s disappointing. But dude has had *two* full recruiting classes. He hasn’t even played with an upperclassmen recruit of his yet.

I don’t know. I think there’s a lot to like projecting forward as the roster balances out with talent, if that’s what they are getting with two recruiting classes.

I think Miami fans definitely expected a better product in year 3, especially when they have been all in at acquiring talent through the portal. They had the #1 pick in the draft at QB, didn't have SMU or Clemson on the schedule, and still found a way to lose 2 ACC games and miss a trip to Charlotte.

 

[cashisking884]

I think Miami fans definitely expected a better product in year 3, especially when they have been all in at acquiring talent through the portal. They had the #1 pick in the draft at QB, didn't have SMU or Clemson on the schedule, and still found a way to lose 2 ACC games and miss a trip to Charlotte.

Yes, Cam changed the projection as the season went on. And hid a lot of roster deficiencies.

But that wasn’t the expectation going into the year. They surpassed Vegas’ win total for them.

They had a bad defense that killed them in two games. Defense takes longer to fix than offense because it’s so talent driven compared to system driven. Which is very much my initial point.

Now, with 3 recruiting classes and actual upper class men, let’s see if there is more roster balance.
Last year they were a team that was still probably a recruiting class or two from being ready, but with a stud QB.

But PFF just put out its 2026 NFL draft projection. Miami had like two top 15-ish picks in it. Both from Mario’s HS recruiting.

When you have that type of roster building, it creates a high floor, and sets you up for a lot of sustained success.

Whether that will meet your expectation for success, I’m not sure. Yours seems to be insanely high to the point that even Jimbo at FSU with his national title and playoff berth, is a cautionary tale.

But give me lots of high NFL draft picks, and you’re probably going to give me lots of 10+ win regular seasons. Give me that, and I’ll take my chances that some of those seasons turn out really well. And I’d bet a lot of money on there being sustained success.