There are about 250 teams that wish they had Pitt's Basketball problems.

[mdpitt]

Our team this year would be many school's "greatest teams ever". Realistically speaking, we have an embarrassment of riches with a great coach, facility and fans. My gosh does 8,500 look bad for a turnout when other schools set attendance records with 5,000.

We are right in the middle of the greatest Pitt Basketball era and the pendulum is at the bottom. Coach Dixon is half way though his Head Coaching career and in 2029 he will be sitting on 650 or so victories. He is 12-10 in the NCAA Tourney and then he might be about 24-20. Maybe better.

Sign me up for another 13 years and hope we catch fire a few times. My hunch is he becomes even more crafty as he leans more on others in the future.

There are 20 all-time coaches with 676 wins in D-1 and with the way people get canned these days, there might not be many more. I sure hope people have the vision to see we are simply in the middle of watching a great thing.

Good luck to this team and the many future players under Pitt's greatest basketball coach, Jamie Dixon.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Amen

 

[PittPanther44]

I absolutely appreciate Jamie and love this program.

I do however think we have the right to note that the last 5 years is below the bar. We became an elite program. We were top 5 in wins over a decade. We had the best record in the best conference over that decade. We arent any more

I dont want this to be the new normal. It doesnt have to be

 

[9nationalchampionships]

It appears that leaving the BE we lost some of the NYC recruits. We need to do better on the recruiting trail.

I absolutely appreciate Jamie and love this program.

I do however think we have the right to note that the last 5 years is below the bar. We became an elite program. We were top 5 in wins over a decade. We had the best record in the best conference over that decade. We arent any more

I dont want this to be the new normal. It doesnt have to be

 

[88Pitt88]

I absolutely appreciate Jamie and love this program.

I do however think we have the right to note that the last 5 years is below the bar. We became an elite program. We were top 5 in wins over a decade. We had the best record in the best conference over that decade. We arent any more

I dont want this to be the new normal. It doesnt have to be

We have slipped a bit. However, I think Jamie will right the ship starting next season. Every team goes through up and down cycles. This one has lasted longer than most would like but, it will not endure.

Some of you act like we have the right to expect top 10 results from our team year in and year out like we are Duke or Kentucky or Carolina. We should be thankful that we have a good coach who gets us to the tourney pretty regularly. Maybe sometime in the near future we will do some damage when we get there.

Be happy with your program. We have a coach that works hard and runs a clean program. Deal with the ups and downs. I feel we just payed our dues here the last few years, an up cycle is on the way!

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I absolutely appreciate Jamie and love this program.

I do however think we have the right to note that the last 5 years is below the bar. We became an elite program. We were top 5 in wins over a decade. We had the best record in the best conference over that decade. We arent any more

I dont want this to be the new normal. It doesnt have to be[/QUOTE

It appeared we were poised to possibly be an upper tier program but elite is too strong. We were not and likely never will be elite.

 

[Piranha]

It appears that leaving the BE we lost some of the NYC recruits. We need to do better on the recruiting trail.

There are still good players coming out of NYC and the metro area. We should still be hitting that area hard, but we need a recruiter with ties.

 

[NTOP]

There are still good players coming out of NYC and the metro area. We should still be hitting that area hard, but we need a recruiter with ties.

The all have ties. Jamie's are a bit fancier, as it should be. BK looks pretty good at times, Smoke is, well, hard to fit, Barton is firmly in the 1960's. Jason Richards shows promise.....investment banker-style.

 

[levance2]

Jason Richards shows promise.....investment banker-style.

I have very little evidence, but I think Richards is a really great piece for the staff. He's noted as the Director of Analytics, played in the NBADL and summer camp, his dad played for Pitt, and the guy played next to Steph Curry, who is potentially one of the greatest in NBA history. He seems like a really important "brain" compared to recruiting salesmanship we're seeking.

I hate to compare him to Brad Stevens, just because I doubt anyone is really comparable to him, but that type of guy. I wouldn't be shocked at all for him to be a successful head coach somewhere eventually.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Our team this year would be many school's "greatest teams ever". Realistically speaking, we have an embarrassment of riches with a great coach, facility and fans. My gosh does 8,500 look bad for a turnout when other schools set attendance records with 5,000.

We are right in the middle of the greatest Pitt Basketball era and the pendulum is at the bottom. Coach Dixon is half way though his Head Coaching career and in 2029 he will be sitting on 650 or so victories. He is 12-10 in the NCAA Tourney and then he might be about 24-20. Maybe better.

Sign me up for another 13 years and hope we catch fire a few times. My hunch is he becomes even more crafty as he leans more on others in the future.

There are 20 all-time coaches with 676 wins in D-1 and with the way people get canned these days, there might not be many more. I sure hope people have the vision to see we are simply in the middle of watching a great thing.

Good luck to this team and the many future players under Pitt's greatest basketball coach, Jamie Dixon.

Sort of a strange way to look at things.
We shouldn't be happy because other programs are worse than the PITT program?
There's always someone who wouldn't mind be in another persons "better" situation.
The worse program in NCAA basketball would love to be in the place of the 10 worse team on and on.
Our program regressed but we're happy because there's 250 programs in worse shape???
Loser thought process!
When you're near the top like PITT was and you drop to where we are today there's little solace thinking about how really bad programs would love to be PITT. Of course they would!
We should be thinking how "fix" things and get into the ACC Top 3 or better and improve from there!

 

[Fredact]

Our team this year would be many school's "greatest teams ever". Realistically speaking, we have an embarrassment of riches with a great coach, facility and fans. My gosh does 8,500 look bad for a turnout when other schools set attendance records with 5,000.

We are right in the middle of the greatest Pitt Basketball era and the pendulum is at the bottom. Coach Dixon is half way though his Head Coaching career and in 2029 he will be sitting on 650 or so victories. He is 12-10 in the NCAA Tourney and then he might be about 24-20. Maybe better.

Sign me up for another 13 years and hope we catch fire a few times. My hunch is he becomes even more crafty as he leans more on others in the future.

There are 20 all-time coaches with 676 wins in D-1 and with the way people get canned these days, there might not be many more. I sure hope people have the vision to see we are simply in the middle of watching a great thing.

Good luck to this team and the many future players under Pitt's greatest basketball coach, Jamie Dixon.

Wonderful post. Someone with the long view and the broad view.

 

[mdpitt]

I absolutely appreciate Jamie and love this program.

I do however think we have the right to note that the last 5 years is below the bar. We became an elite program. We were top 5 in wins over a decade. We had the best record in the best conference over that decade. We arent any more

I dont want this to be the new normal. It doesnt have to be

The rules Basketball imple

Sort of a strange way to look at things.
There's always someone who wouldn't mind be in another persons "better" situation.
The worse program in NCAA basketball would love to be in the place of the 10 worse team on and on.
Our program regressed but we're happy because there's 250 programs in worse shape???
Loser thought process!
When you're near the top like PITT was and you drop to where we are today there's little solace thinking about how really bad programs would love to be PITT. Of course they would!
We should be thinking how "fix" things and get into the ACC Top 3 or better and improve from there!

Loser attitudes don't know a good thing when they see it. We have repeatedly been a winning program for a long time now. Dixon is THE common denominator even as an assistant. The key to success is putting yourself in a position to win. Take a look at Pitts basketball history in decades to compare apples to apples. Don't look at Ketucky, Duke or whoever else. We have now been in the ACC for a few years banking that check. What he did on Big East money is extrodinary. I have a feeling resources ( not his paycheck ) will be given to keep up with the elite.

Again, losers take the easy way always. I'm pretty comfortable Dixon has an above average chance at keeping us a top 25 program. Keep an eye on Syracuse and Duke when their coaches are gone. They might not look so elite.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Sort of a strange way to look at things.
We shouldn't be happy because other programs are worse than the PITT program?
There's always someone who wouldn't mind be in another persons "better" situation.
The worse program in NCAA basketball would love to be in the place of the 10 worse team on and on.
Our program regressed but we're happy because there's 250 programs in worse shape???
Loser thought process!
When you're near the top like PITT was and you drop to where we are today there's little solace thinking about how really bad programs would love to be PITT. Of course they would!
We should be thinking how "fix" things and get into the ACC Top 3 or better and improve from there!

I live my life with what you call a loser thought process. Any time I want to complain about ANYTHING, I look around and realize I don't have it so bad, and I feel shame for complaining. I try to apply that to most aspects of my life, and it makes me work harder knowing the blessings I have. So, call it a loser mentality, but it works for me.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Yeah still good players coming out of NYC but part of the pitch was
- playing at Seton Hall
- playing at St Johns
- BE tourney at the Garden.

We can’t pitch that any more.

There are still good players coming out of NYC and the metro area. We should still be hitting that area hard, but we need a recruiter with ties.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Actually it is not a "mentality" at all. Not a "loser mentality". Not a "winner mentality". Honestly, it is wrong, a false equivalence. There are 360 teams in Division 1 basketball. 200-225 of them, just really are not on any level to compete with a P5 or Big East program. So you can't compare yourselves with them and take it as a positive that you are better than them.

So you can talk about teams struggling to 10 games, 15 games, draw 2000, 3000 people and take the Pitt program as much more successful and therefore something that should not be taken granted for, and this is a false narrative.

You can't compare Pitt (or Syracuse or NC State or any ACC team) with Alcorn State, a Prairie View A&M, a Cal St Dominguez, a Bryant, a Stony Brook, etc... Those teams just aren't on our level. Not budget wise, not talent wise, not exposure wise, not conference wise. Now, you can compare Pitt with BC, Northwestern, Rutgers, St. Johns, Auburn, etc... But Lamar? Central Connecticut? No. That is like comparing Pitt's academics with CCAC-Boyce. It is just a different level and one you are not competing against.

So you all can say he is looking at the bright side and taking the positive, but it is not a valid comparison and nothing to take from "250 schools wish they were Pitt" because those 250 schools, 200-220 of them CANT BE PITT. They are essentially Division 2 schools, essentially Slippery Rock or Gannon masquerading as a Division 1 program.

 

[mdpitt]

I live my life with what you call a loser thought process. Any time I want to complain about ANYTHING, I look around and realize I don't have it so bad, and I feel shame for complaining. I try to apply that to most aspects of my life, and it makes me work harder knowing the blessings I have. So, call it a loser mentality, but it works for me.

Well said. I will take a lifetime of being in the top 25 with a few hiccups mid-life. Those roses sure do smell great. Every once in a while I am better than the top 10 and it feels great. I bet once or twice in the next 15 years we are going to be among the best 8 or 4. Maybe even the final 2. I guarantee that if we win it all, Pitt will be a blueprint for doing it the right way. If you can't see it, I suggest you get get your vision checked.

 

[Piranha]

Yeah still good players coming out of NYC but part of the pitch was
- playing at Seton Hall
- playing at St Johns
- BE tourney at the Garden.

We can pitch that any more.

But yet, kids from NYC are playing for schools in the Big 12, and other ACC teams.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Actually it is not a "mentality" at all. Not a "loser mentality". Not a "winner mentality". Honestly, it is wrong, a false equivalence. There are 360 teams in Division 1 basketball. 200-225 of them, just really are not on any level to compete with a P5 or Big East program. So you can't compare yourselves with them and take it as a positive that you are better than them.

So you can talk about teams struggling to 10 games, 15 games, draw 2000, 3000 people and take the Pitt program as much more successful and therefore something that should not be taken granted for, and this is a false narrative.

You can't compare Pitt (or Syracuse or NC State or any ACC team) with Alcorn State, a Prairie View A&M, a Cal St Dominguez, a Bryant, a Stony Brook, etc... Those teams just aren't on our level. Not budget wise, not talent wise, not exposure wise, not conference wise. Now, you can compare Pitt with BC, Northwestern, Rutgers, St. Johns, Auburn, etc... But Lamar? Central Connecticut? No. That is like comparing Pitt's academics with CCAC-Boyce. It is just a different level and one you are not competing against.

So you all can say he is looking at the bright side and taking the positive, but it is not a valid comparison and nothing to take from "250 schools wish they were Pitt" because those 250 schools, 200-220 of them CANT BE PITT. They are essentially Division 2 schools, essentially Slippery Rock or Gannon masquerading as a Division 1 program.

That's a better answer than calling it a winner or loser mentality.

 

[mdpitt]

Actually it is not a "mentality" at all. Not a "loser mentality". Not a "winner mentality". Honestly, it is wrong, a false equivalence. There are 360 teams in Division 1 basketball. 200-225 of them, just really are not on any level to compete with a P5 or Big East program. So you can't compare yourselves with them and take it as a positive that you are better than them.

So you can talk about teams struggling to 10 games, 15 games, draw 2000, 3000 people and take the Pitt program as much more successful and therefore something that should not be taken granted for, and this is a false narrative.

You can't compare Pitt (or Syracuse or NC State or any ACC team) with Alcorn State, a Prairie View A&M, a Cal St Dominguez, a Bryant, a Stony Brook, etc... Those teams just aren't on our level. Not budget wise, not talent wise, not exposure wise, not conference wise. Now, you can compare Pitt with BC, Northwestern, Rutgers, St. Johns, Auburn, etc... But Lamar? Central Connecticut? No. That is like comparing Pitt's academics with CCAC-Boyce. It is just a different level and one you are not competing against.

So you all can say he is looking at the bright side and taking the positive, but it is not a valid comparison and nothing to take from "250 schools wish they were Pitt" because those 250 schools, 200-220 of them CANT BE PITT. They are essentially Division 2 schools, essentially Slippery Rock or Gannon masquerading as a Division 1 program.

Just curious. If you had to keep Coach or replace him, what would you choose and why?

 

[9nationalchampionships]

I am only saying that we recruited the 5 boroughs well and now we don't. Losing Slice hurt but some of the appeal was kids would be playing in NYC.

But yet, kids from NYC are playing for schools in the Big 12, and other ACC teams.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You always have to reach higher. I dont care that we are better than Penn State, Rutgers, Duquesne, and St. John's. We were Virginia and I want to be Virginia again.

But I would be happy if we were a 3-6 seed program.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Just curious. If you had to keep Coach or replace him, what would you choose and why?

Right now? I would have to give him another year. And who knows, maybe we get to the Sweet 16. I think you give him next year definitely. So I would keep him. And my reason for replacing him now is not good enough reason to replace him, and that is to hire a Archie Miller or Kevin Williard before another big school swoops them up.

Like I said, who knows, maybe we make a bit of a run, get to a Sweet 16. NOW....we go 1 and done, and next year is another NIT maybe NCAA bubble team with Young, Artis, Jeter, Jones all leaving and nothing recruiting in the pipeline, it probably is time to look elsewhere.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You always have to reach higher. I dont care that we are better than Penn State, Rutgers, Duquesne, and St. John's. We were Virginia and I want to be Virginia again.

But I would be happy if we were a 3-6 seed program.

Yeah, if anything, I think these past few years should make us appreciate better what we had. We went from mediocre/no tourney teams to all of a sudden consistent top 15/Sweet 16 level teams, not on the base of some NBA level recruiting class, but based on getting solid kids and developing them for 4 years. We made it seem easy. It isn't obviously.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

I live my life with what you call a loser thought process. Any time I want to complain about ANYTHING, I look around and realize I don't have it so bad, and I feel shame for complaining. I try to apply that to most aspects of my life, and it makes me work harder knowing the blessings I have. So, call it a loser mentality, but it works for me.

That's very nice and everyone has their way of looking at things.
Personally I always look up the ladder and try to figure out how I can go in that direction rather than look down and just be happy I'm not in that situation!
I apply that to most everything that's why I think PITT can do much better than what's taking place now!
Five "down" years in a row is a trend not a blip. Time to start looking up the ladder and figure out how to get to the top one wrung at a time.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

From the level of whining we have experienced on this Board this season you would think we had sunk to Boston College's level or even worse.

You would also think that making the NCAA tourney as a 9 or 10 seed means we are close to not being solidly among the top 64-68 teams nationally out of 350 or so D1 teams.

The reality is that we are the #34 team per Sagarin (#36 per the Massie average of various computer ratings) out of about 350 D1 teams. That puts Pitt in the upper 10% of all D1 teams this season.

Also, I think a further misperception comes from the failure of many fans to understand that of the 32 conference auto bid teams in the field of 68 roughly 18 are not really among the top 64 teams in D1. These 18 range from being ranked in the low 70's to as high as #284 using Massie's average of computer rankings.

All this being said, it is disappointing we have dropped off from having a run of being among the top 20 and a few seasons in the top 10. Nevertheless, the sky hasn't completely fallen yet. I think we are one quality 6-10 or taller rim protector and defensive rebounding star away from being back to that former level. I think the rest of the pieces are there. Maybe that last open ship will bring that piece in for next season or maybe Manigault will immediately be able to provide the needed rebounding and rim protection.

 

[KiwiJeff]

That's very nice and everyone has their way of looking at things.
Personally I always look up the ladder and try to figure out how I can go in that direction rather than look down and just be happy I'm not in that situation!
I apply that to most everything that's why I think PITT can do much better than what's taking place now!
Five "down" years in a row is a trend not a blip. Time to start looking up the ladder and figure out how to get to the top one wrung at a time.

That's all fine and good, and that's for your life, which you have some control over, but how do you apply that to others, like sports teams, who are external to yourself?

 

[BuffetParrothead]

From the level of whining we have experienced on this Board this season you would think we had sunk to Boston College's level or even worse.

You would also think that making the NCAA tourney as a 9 or 10 seed means we are close to not being solidly among the top 64-68 teams nationally out of 350 or so D1 teams.

The reality is that we are the #34 team per Sagarin (#36 per the Massie average of various computer ratings) out of about 350 D1 teams. That puts Pitt in the upper 10% of all D1 teams this season.

Also, I think a further misperception comes from the failure of many fans to understand that of the 32 conference auto bid teams in the field of 68 roughly 18 are not really among the top 64 teams in D1. These 18 range from being ranked in the low 70's to as high as #284 using Massie's average of computer rankings.

All this being said, it is disappointing we have dropped off from having a run of being among the top 20 and a few seasons in the top 10. Nevertheless, the sky hasn't completely fallen yet. I think we are one quality 6-10 or taller rim protector and defensive rebounding star away from being back to that former level. I think the rest of the pieces are there. Maybe that last open ship will bring that piece in for next season or maybe Manigault will immediately be able to provide the needed rebounding and rim protection.

Good points!
I believe the problem is that we've established a trend line that isn't showing positive movement for maybe five years. I'm sure the stat nerds will throw out lots of numbers that show PITT is on a rocketship ride to the top and I just don't understand things.
Five years of one or two and out games in the NCAAT, more losses at the Pete where we were once invincible, recruiting misses, less close games with top ranked teams ( Duke & ND were nice/VT & GT weren't), Pete attendance issues, etc all downward trend line indicators.
So if we show so positive developments and resistance to the downward trend that will go along way to giving people some condidence that change is on the way!

 

[Fredact]

So you can talk about teams struggling to 10 games, 15 games, draw 2000, 3000 people and take the Pitt program as much more successful and therefore something that should not be taken granted for, and this is a false narrative.

You can't compare Pitt (or Syracuse or NC State or any ACC team) with Alcorn State, a Prairie View A&M, a Cal St Dominguez, a Bryant, a Stony Brook, etc... Those teams just aren't on our level. Not budget wise, not talent wise, not exposure wise, not conference wise. Now, you can compare Pitt with BC, Northwestern, Rutgers, St. Johns, Auburn, etc... But Lamar? Central Connecticut? No. That is like comparing Pitt's academics with CCAC-Boyce. It is just a different level and one you are not competing against.

So you all can say he is looking at the bright side and taking the positive, but it is not a valid comparison and nothing to take from "250 schools wish they were Pitt" because those 250 schools, 200-220 of them CANT BE PITT. They are essentially Division 2 schools, essentially Slippery Rock or Gannon masquerading as a Division 1 program.

That is not at all correct. Your view that Pitt is only competing against those teams that happen to be at Pitt's level or above at this particular moment is not at all the reality. All 350 schools are competing for the same prize. Schools are not "locked" into some level or the other, they get to that level by their accomplishments over time.

You need only look at Butler--a few years ago they were in the Horizon. Thus in your view, they were not then a competitor of Pitt's, but somehow now they are. What about San Francisco, (Wilt Chamberlain's alma mater)--they use to be a top program, but now are not. Also Holy Cross, CCNY and many others. Are they only Pitt competitors when they are good? Of course not. A team's ranking among those 350 is not fixed, nor a given just because that's where they are now.

Prior to Howland and Dixon, Pitt was likely a top 70 program. Now they are top 30. Earlier in the 2000's they were in the top 15. It doesn't stay fixed.

 

[BigZeke]

But yet, kids from NYC are playing for schools in the Big 12, and other ACC teams.

...and more unbelievably the PAC 12 aka Arizona where NYC star Rawle Alkins just committed to.

 

[California Panther]

What about San Francisco, (Wilt Chamberlain's alma mater)--they use to be a top program, but now are not.

You got your dominating centers mixed up, Bill Russell went to San Francisco, Chamberlain went to Kansas.

 

[Fredact]

You got your dominating centers mixed up, Bill Russell went to San Francisco, Chamberlain went to Kansas.

Duh. Senior moment.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

That is not at all correct. Your view that Pitt is only competing against those teams that happen to be at Pitt's level or above at this particular moment is not at all the reality. All 350 schools are competing for the same prize. Schools are not "locked" into some level or the other, they get to that level by their accomplishments over time.

You need only look at Butler--a few years ago they were in the Horizon. Thus in your view, they were not then a competitor of Pitt's, but somehow now they are. What about San Francisco, (Wilt Chamberlain's alma mater)--they use to be a top program, but now are not. Also Holy Cross, CCNY and many others. Are they only Pitt competitors when they are good? Of course not. A team's ranking among those 350 is not fixed, nor a given just because that's where they are now.

Prior to Howland and Dixon, Pitt was likely a top 70 program. Now they are top 30. Earlier in the 2000's they were in the top 15. It doesn't stay fixed.

I am not saying a Butler or Xavier. I am saying an Alcorn State or Robert Morris. We do not compete at all with those schools. We don't compete for players, for coaches for broadcast time. That makes up about 200 schools.

USF, Holy Cross, CCNY, dude that is a different time. Those are irrelevant references now, just like at one time Fordham, Hardin Simmons and Army were football powers.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Its definitely a foundation to stand on which alot of other don't have. But makes me uneasy at times bragging about it (Jamie included). I mean, Wisc has made 18 straight.

 

[thebadby2]

The rules Basketball imple

Loser attitudes don't know a good thing when they see it. We have repeatedly been a winning program for a long time now. Dixon is THE common denominator even as an assistant. The key to success is putting yourself in a position to win. Take a look at Pitts basketball history in decades to compare apples to apples. Don't look at Ketucky, Duke or whoever else. We have now been in the ACC for a few years banking that check. What he did on Big East money is extrodinary. I have a feeling resources ( not his paycheck ) will be given to keep up with the elite.

Again, losers take the easy way always. I'm pretty comfortable Dixon has an above average chance at keeping us a top 25 program. Keep an eye on Syracuse and Duke when their coaches are gone. They might not look so elite.

Actually, losers settle. The "easy way" is just to be happy we got there. That may placate you and a small percentage of the fan base, but it's not good enough for the average fan, and it is certainly not good enough for the coach and players, who don't work as hard as they do for participation trophies. Simply making the NCAA tournament out of a P5 league that routinely gets 8-9 bids is a relatively modest achievement. It's what you do once you get there that matters.

As for keeping us a top 25 program, we have to get back to being one before JD can do that. It's going to take a major emphasis on recruiting on JD's part that so far has not been apparent, and has not yielded the necessary results. If it's a matter of needing additional resources, I'm sure Barnes will do his part.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Actually, losers settle. The "easy way" is just to be happy we got there. That may placate you and a small percentage of the fan base, but it's not good enough for the average fan, and it is certainly not good enough for the coach and players, who don't work as hard as they do for participation trophies. Simply making the NCAA tournament out of a P5 league that routinely gets 8-9 bids is a relatively modest achievement. It's what you do once you get there that matters.

As for keeping us a top 25 program, we have to get back to being one before JD can do that. It's going to take a major emphasis on recruiting on JD's part that so far has not been apparent, and has not yielded the necessary results. If it's a matter of needing additional resources, I'm sure Barnes will do his part.

I think it really depends on the school. I don't think you are wrong for all schools, but you are not right for all schools either. There are guys who hold onto jobs for a very long time with few if any deep runs. Look at the current coach at Purdue, they regressed further than we did, finally got back this year, but I doubt that coach is on the hot seat. U.K., UCLA and the like have a much lower tolerance for what they perceive as failure, sometimes to their own detriment. I'd say what you wrote is a lot more true of the pros than college. Probably a lot of high D1 teams too.

 

[Piranha]

...and more unbelievably the PAC 12 aka Arizona where NYC star Rawle Alkins just committed to.

It is all about connections. Book Richardson recruits that area well. FYI - He is a UPJ guy.

 

[BigZeke]

It is all about connections. Book Richardson recruits that area well. FYI - He is a UPJ guy.

...and for some reason when he was looking to get back to the East Coast a few years back we didn't hire him. Puzzling

 

[Harve74]

...and for some reason when he was looking to get back to the East Coast a few years back we didn't hire him. Puzzling

I might well have hired Book. He definitely wanted the job.

But, overall, there are rea$ons no one el$e did. Pitt just isn't going down that road. At least that's what I still hear.

As far as Owtie's repeated assertion that we don't compete with those #100-360 schools, well, I know people are tired of hearing it, but it wasn't that long ago that we were firmly IN that group.

When I was an undergrad, we played home and homes with CMU, Westminster, IUP, etc. -sometimes playing one of them twice a season. Duquesne, PSU, WVU and Cuse were often our only real D-1 opponents, with a Bucknell or Lafayette thrown in. From 1964-65 to '68-69, our highest win total was 7, even playing that kind of schedule. As late as 1976-1977, we won only 6 games, although the Eastern Eight schedule WAS tougher by then. If the football fanatics claim the late '70's as our legacy, as Tomlin says, we have to own those years as our basketball legacy. We certainly WERE competing with those #100-360 ranked teams, and with D-2 and D-3 teams.

There is virtually no basketball tradition to build on here before Dixon/Howland, unless you want to count the Golden Panther -driven underachieving mercenaries under Chipman and Evans and Williard who made as many headlines from recruiting scandals and criminal citations as from their play.

Agreed, that's not where we are today. But it is in the memories of a significant portion of our fan base. Or should be. Under Williard, the 6200 seat Fieldhouse was usually at least half-empty, particularly the "blue seats" which required a donation. That's 1999, less than 20 years ago. That definitely should be in the memory of all of our season ticket holders.

It has been much worse. It could be again.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Growing up Duquense was the bb power in Pgh. Red Manning had an awfully good program on the bluff and no one cared about Pitt. Billy Zoft ,Jarrett Durhum, the Nelson Twins ,Mickey Davis (I'm too young for Willie Somerset) they were good and they put a lot of people in the arena.

 

[Cap pitt]

Yeah still good players coming out of NYC but part of the pitch was
- playing at Seton Hall
- playing at St Johns
- BE tourney at the Garden.

We can’t pitch that any more.

Do you think these NY recruits don't want to play against Duke, North Carolina, Virginia etc or do you think they just want to play for them,