These Freshmen in Year Three and Four

[Chescat]

There's been a lot of talk about our present freshmen, their development,
and how they'll be in years three and four. In a previous post I stated that
without recruits to jump over them, we'll be a competitive MAC type team.
IMO the best thing that could happen to Stallings and to Pitt, is for these
present freshmen to be relegated to the bench because the new recruits
put them there. We need ACC type recruits, and if we get them (right now I'm
doubtful of this occurring) , these present freshmen will be role players.
Browne will be a viable substitute off the bench, same with Stevenson.
Carr and Stewart would easily be in the rotation, and Davis would be further down the bench.
I realize this is coming off as negative thinking, but seriously this IMO ,is what
Pitt needs to have happen if it plans to be a viable ACC team.

 

[Thee Jackie Treehorn]

You're not wrong.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

There's been a lot of talk about our present freshmen, their development,
and how they'll be in years three and four. In a previous post I stated that
without recruits to jump over them, we'll be a competitive MAC type team.
IMO the best thing that could happen to Stallings and to Pitt, is for these
present freshmen to be relegated to the bench because the new recruits
put them there. We need ACC type recruits, and if we get them (right now I'm
doubtful of this occurring) , these present freshmen will be role players.
Browne will be a viable substitute off the bench, same with Stevenson.
Carr and Stewart would easily be in the rotation, and Davis would be further down the bench.
I realize this is coming off as negative thinking, but seriously this IMO ,is what
Pitt needs to have happen if it plans to be a viable ACC team.

Carr, Stewart, and Stevenson could be starters with a viable center that we haven't had since Gary McGhee (except 1 year of Adams) and an ACC-level SF

 

[rockypanther]

Carr, Stewart, and Stevenson could be starters with a viable center that we haven't had since Gary McGhee (except 1 year of Adams) and an ACC-level SF

Stewart and Stevenson could be viable starters in their Junior years. Neither of them would start on any of our good teams from the past as sophomores.

 

[rockypanther]

Carr, Stewart, and Stevenson could be starters with a viable center that we haven't had since Gary McGhee (except 1 year of Adams) and an ACC-level SF

And even so we aren't pulling in that viable center and ACC level SF in next years class. So when do those two players come?

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Stewart and Stevenson could be viable starters in their Junior years. Neither of them would start on any of our good teams from the past as sophomores.

I don’t see it with either of them
One dimensional players.

Stewart can’t create for his shot or guard a garbage can on defense.

Stevenson- he has to get a helluva lot better to be anything resembling a starter quality dude.

It’s okay - our best player is a Chris jones clone sitting out on transfer , apparently.
Woof

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Carr, Stewart, and Stevenson could be starters with a viable center that we haven't had since Gary McGhee (except 1 year of Adams) and an ACC-level SF

Stewart and Stevenson could be viable starters in their Junior years. Neither of them would start on any of our good teams from the past as sophomores.

Not both but maybe 1 of them could have on a good Pitt team.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Carr, Stewart, and Stevenson could be starters with a viable center that we haven't had since Gary McGhee (except 1 year of Adams) and an ACC-level SF

And even so we aren't pulling into that viable center and ACzc level SF in next years class. So when do those two players come?

Next year’s class is very concerning. Kingsby is mid-major and Golden is Ryan Luther, meaning a solid ACC bench guy on a good team but nothing special.

 

[mbrannagan]

There will be attrition too. Odds are that of these 7 freshman, maybe 4 of them see time as upperclassmen here. That is one of the lame parts about college basketball now a days, but also one of the downfalls of recruiting a big class.

 

[rockypanther]

Not both but maybe 1 of them could have on a good Pitt team.

Neither would see more than 10 minutes on a good Pitt team.

 

[Chescat]

Carr, Stewart, and Stevenson could be starters with a viable center that we haven't had since Gary McGhee (except 1 year of Adams) and an ACC-level SF

If that were to occur, Browne and Davis would be on the bench and we;d be mid level ACC at best, actually bottom to mid level IMO. Having a viable center is nothing more than
average in the ACC.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Not both but maybe 1 of them could have on a good Pitt team.

Neither would see more than 10 minutes on a good Pitt team.

Cam Wright started on an NCAAT team and I'd rather have Stewart

 

[Chescat]

Cam Wright started on an NCAAT team and I'd rather have Stewart

Yes Wright did, but he had good players alongside of him. He also was the weak link on that team. BTW, I also would rather have Stewart over Wright.

 

[rockypanther]

Cam Wright started on an NCAAT team and I'd rather have Stewart

Cam was much better when he started at Pitt on a tourney team than Stewart is now. Stewart is less impressive to me than both Ramon and Gibbs as freshman. And Stewart has way more opportunities as a freshman than those two.

 

[rockypanther]

Yes Wright did, but he had good players alongside of him. He also was the weak link on that team. BTW, I also would rather have Stewart over Wright.

Cam could play D and was tough. For that reason alone I take him over Stewart.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yes Wright did, but he had good players alongside of him. He also was the weak link on that team. BTW, I also would rather have Stewart over Wright.

Cam could play D and was tough. For that reason alone I take him over Stewart.

Cam could not play D. He was supposed to but he sucked at it. He did get the occasional steal

 

[Thee Jackie Treehorn]

Patterson as a super senior was a strong load-carrying teammate for Wright. I don't see anyone like Patterson on this roster.

 

[Chescat]

Cam could play D and was tough. For that reason alone I take him over Stewart.

Defense as you know can be learned. It's hustle and hard work...so with that said, I gotta believe Stewart can get that done by year three. Cam on the other hand, couldn't be an
offensive threat in year ten lol. Stewart's shot ability wins it for me in this comparison,
but I agree his present D is God awful.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Defense as you know can be learned. It's hustle and hard work...so with that said, I gotta believe Stewart can get that done by year three. Cam on the other hand, couldn't be an
offensive threat in year ten lol. Stewart's shot ability wins it for me in this comparison,
but I agree his present D is God awful.

He’s not going to learn athleticism.

 

[Chescat]

He’s not going to learn athleticism.

I don't believe he's that nonathletic.

 

[Thee Jackie Treehorn]

He's got a nice shot. But he's not a dynamic athlete.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I don't believe he's that nonathletic.

Watch his “movement “ on offense.
He’s got a nice shot-
But he’s about the least athletic guard we’ve had in some time.

 

[whirlybird optio]

Carr, Stewart, and Stevenson could be starters with a viable center that we haven't had since Gary McGhee (except 1 year of Adams) and an ACC-level SF

If Carr, Stewart, AND Stephenson are in your starting lineup, I don’t care if it is year 1 or year 4, that is not an NCAA team unless your SF and C are 1st team all ACC talents.

And about Carr, the guy who was “the best guard we’ve had since Vonteego” or some nonsense like that...he stinks. We’ve played 10 halves in the ACC, he’s been bad in 9 of them. Far from a sure thing, a poor mans Tray Woodall. We have zero, ZERO, guaranteed ACC talent on this roster, none.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Carr, Stewart, and Stevenson could be starters with a viable center that we haven't had since Gary McGhee (except 1 year of Adams) and an ACC-level SF

If Carr, Stewart, AND Stephenson are in your starting lineup, I don’t care if it is year 1 or year 4, that is not an NCAA team unless your SF and C are 1st team all ACC talents.

And about Carr, the guy who was “the best guard we’ve had since Vonteego” or some nonsense like that...he stinks. We’ve played 10 halves in the ACC, he’s been bad in 9 of them. Far from a sure thing, a poor mans Tray Woodall. We have zero, ZERO, guaranteed ACC talent on this roster, none.

Carr is going through a funk. He's a freshman playing on a terrible team.

 

[DT_PITT]

If Carr, Stewart, AND Stephenson are in your starting lineup, I don’t care if it is year 1 or year 4, that is not an NCAA team unless your SF and C are 1st team all ACC talents.

And about Carr, the guy who was “the best guard we’ve had since Vonteego” or some nonsense like that...he stinks. We’ve played 10 halves in the ACC, he’s been bad in 9 of them. Far from a sure thing, a poor mans Tray Woodall. We have zero, ZERO, guaranteed ACC talent on this roster, none.

The hyperbole offered about some of our freshman after 12 games was often a little tough to swallow. The "best guard since Vonteego" comments was certainly near the top of the top of the hard to swallow list.

I was hoping that Marcus had the potential to be a Julius Page level (which is a compliment since Julius was an All Big East guard). I am still hopeful for this, but agree that little is close to certain at this point.

 

[whirlybird optio]

Carr is going through a funk. He's a freshman playing on a terrible team.

“Funk” meaning all ACC games, lol. The GT point guard was a freshman, not even a great one, and he ate Carr’s lunch.

 

[whirlybird optio]

The hyperbole offered about some of our freshman after 12 games was often a little tough to swallow. The "best guard since Vonteego" comments was certainly near the top of the top of the hard to swallow list.

I was hoping that Marcus had the potential to be a Julius Page level (which is a compliment since Julius was an All Big East guard). I am still hopeful for this, but agree that little is close to certain at this point.

His biggest problems are 1) he’s not a PG, 2) if he’s really a SG he’s undersized, 3) he’s slow.

Those are all very difficult to fix, it’s not like “oh he’s not hitting his shot, no worries”.

 

[DT_PITT]

His biggest problems are 1) he’s not a PG, 2) if he’s really a SG he’s undersized, 3) he’s slow.

Those are all very difficult to fix, it’s not like “oh he’s not hitting his shot, no worries”.

He really can't get by anyone. By comparison, James couldn't get by people either but he also really understood how to play the point.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

His biggest problems are 1) he’s not a PG, 2) if he’s really a SG he’s undersized, 3) he’s slow.

Those are all very difficult to fix, it’s not like “oh he’s not hitting his shot, no worries”.

And he dribbles the ball flat on most possessions.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I really miss watching ball movement side to side and creating space on offense.

 

[rockypanther]

Thompson not being here is what is hurting Carr. That was a huge miss by Stallings. Carr does not have a high ceiling as a true point guard.

 

[Franb]

He really can't get by anyone. By comparison, James couldn't get by people either but he also really understood how to play the point.

As a freshman, Robinson's assist/turnover ratio was 3/1; at this point, Carr's is 4/3. Robinson was not good enough for some on here, but he was a very good point guard. And Pitt has not had anyone nearly as good for the past 2 years.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

JRob came to Pitt ready to play . His natural position and the position he played his entire life was pg . His problem was he didn’t get better . Question whose fault was that his or his coaches ?
Carr isn’t a pg he’s just the only choice right now .

 

[DiehardPanther]

JRob came to Pitt ready to play . His natural position and the position he played his entire life was pg . His problem was he didn’t get better . Question whose fault was that his or his coaches ?
Carr isn’t a pg he’s just the only choice right now .

Robinson was a very good college PG. He maxed out his potential. There is no fault to pin on anyone.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Stewart and Stevenson could be viable starters in their Junior years. Neither of them would start on any of our good teams from the past as sophomores.

True. Stewart and Stevenson need time to develop their games. They are far from starters. And I haven't seen anything from Carr that says he's a starter yet either. He's a turnover machine and very inconsistent. He also needs time to develop.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

I really miss watching ball movement side to side and creating space on offense.

That's part coaching, and the coach isn't teaching that.

 

[thirteenNINE]

You know, for as important as this question is I really haven't given this the proper examination even slightly analytically. So let's just do a quick experiment here pulling our future lineup's best case projection and worst case projection from my list of comparable players. Going into this I'm not sure if this is going to make me feel better or I'm going to feel worse so I'm sort of on the edge of my seat here a little.

2020 Lineup

Marcus Carr: Best Case Comp - Truck Bryant, Worst Case Comp - Devin Wilson
Parker Stewart: Best Case - Luke Kennard, Worst Case - Chanse Creekmur
Malik Eillison: Best Case - Bryce Dejean-Jones, Worst Case - Nick Faust
Shamiel Stevenson: Best Case - Anthony Gill, Worst Case - Garland Owens
Terrell Brown: Best Case - Maybe Austin Burgett?, Worst Case - Joseph Katuka
Kham Davis: Best Case - Tyler Newbold, Worst Case - Almost Everyone Else on His List

To recap, I really don't feel particularly encouraged by this. On the one hand a team of Bryant, Kennard, Dejean-Jones, Gill, Burgett and Newbold definitely makes the tournament and probably gets a protected seed. But those are all pretty extreme best case scenarios and I don't really see how more than one or two of those guys gets to that level of play. On the opposing end of that coin though the possible lineup of Wilson, Creekmur, Faust, Owens and Katuka probably doesn't win an ACC game...now I don't think that is a super likely outcome either because most of those guys failed in their development pretty severely but it does point to the fact that we can't just rely on this team to necessarily just "develop" naturally into good players either. There's a whole range of outcomes with this team and honestly more of them are bad than are good, particularly when you are talking about the last three players on that list.

Edit: Fun fact that I just realized is that three of the worst case comps tried to play college football after their basketball careers fizzled. So maybe Shamiel has a future at tight end or something?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Robinson was a very good college PG. He maxed out his potential. There is no fault to pin on anyone.[/.
I agree some people peak at 16 others 25 no one knows !
Ps not if KS was his coach

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I really miss watching ball movement side to side and creating space on offense.

Well you and some others are touching on another point. Yes they are Freshman and yes there is definite question and concern on physical talent if these guys will ever have it to be competitive. But what they also lack, is I really don't see any player who seems to have a particular high BB IQ, in knowing what to do in situations. Yes experience will bring this, but some kids like a Knight, Levance, Wanamaker, and many others showed an innate ability to make the right decision. That concerns me also on how this will limit their ceilings.

 

[Chescat]

Well you and some others are touching on another point. Yes they are Freshman and yes there is definite question and concern on physical talent if these guys will ever have it to be competitive. But what they also lack, is I really don't see any player who seems to have a particular high BB IQ, in knowing what to do in situations. Yes experience will bring this, but some kids like a Knight, Levance, Wanamaker, and many others showed an innate ability to make the right decision. That concerns me also on how this will limit their ceilings.

Good point! Despite errors he's making at the point, I would say Carr's Bball IQ
is much of a what a coach would want in a player of his caliber. He' more of a combo type
guard and is paying the price at the point. BTW, this wasn't much of a concern on
here a month ago LOL. The obvious reason was the low mid-level competition he was facing, as opposed to ACC level now.
None of this should come as a surprise, because many of us here were saying
wait until the ACC starts.