These Freshmen in Year Three and Four

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Well you and some others are touching on another point. Yes they are Freshman and yes there is definite question and concern on physical talent if these guys will ever have it to be competitive. But what they also lack, is I really don't see any player who seems to have a particular high BB IQ, in knowing what to do in situations. Yes experience will bring this, but some kids like a Knight, Levance, Wanamaker, and many others showed an innate ability to make the right decision. That concerns me also on how this will limit their ceilings.

It seems like when things start going bad, whether it's late in a shot clock situation or when the other team starts going on a run and we need a play that we have too many guys who think "I need to make a play" rather than "I need to make the right play", so we end up with guys taking bad shots or driving the ball into paces that leave themselves with no good options.

You'd hope that with experience that changes, but that remains to be seen.

 

[gary2]

It seems like when things start going bad, whether it's late in a shot clock situation or when the other team starts going on a run and we need a play that we have too many guys who think "I need to make a play" rather than "I need to make the right play", so we end up with guys taking bad shots or driving the ball into paces that leave themselves with no good options.

You'd hope that with experience that changes, but that remains to be seen.

How about this? - You and I are in total agreement here - That is so rare

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Pitts future doesn’t rest solely on this freshman class . It will be important that three of the seven develop into solid ACC players , but there will be the additions of Luther , Ellison , Kingsby and Golden next season and who knows what the following year .

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Pitts future doesn’t rest solely on this freshman class . It will be important that three of the seven develop into solid ACC players , but there will be the additions of Luther , Ellison , Kingsby and Golden next season and who knows what the following year .

A team on which only three of the current players are solid ACC players and we add the four guys for next year is a team that finishes last in the ACC. By a lot.

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

Again... I have no idea how any of you guys can accurately evaluate the talent on the Pitt roster. I would have expected by mid-January for them to show some semblance of a team instead you just see 5 players out there doing their own thing totally void of any coaching.

Could they win the PIAA high school state championship? Maybe. Could they compete in the MAC. Could be.

This boy Stallings has checked-out. His #1 concern is to get enough of a buy-out to get back to his family in Nashville, ASAP. And from the looks of things on the court - by any means necessary.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

A team on which only three of the current players are solid ACC players and we add the four guys for next year is a team that finishes last in the ACC. By a lot.

Most likely the ACC is tough . But they’ll at least win some games !

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

But they’ll at least win some games !

That is certainly no guarantee. You are assuming that all, or at least three, of the four players coming in for next season are all going to be solid ACC players. And in fact the only one we know for sure about is Luther. We also have a pretty good idea about Ellison, but everyone wants to ignore the evidence we have on him because that would mean we would need both of the other two just to get to three.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

That is certainly no guarantee. You are assuming that all, or at least three, of the four players coming in for next season are all going to be solid ACC players. And in fact the only one we know for sure about is Luther. We also have a pretty good idea about Ellison, but everyone wants to ignore the evidence we have on him because that would mean we would need both of the other two just to get to three.

I’m counting on improvement from returning players also .

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

It seems like when things start going bad, whether it's late in a shot clock situation or when the other team starts going on a run and we need a play that we have too many guys who think "I need to make a play" rather than "I need to make the right play", so we end up with guys taking bad shots or driving the ball into paces that leave themselves with no good options.

You'd hope that with experience that changes, but that remains to be seen.

Yeah. I know it is definite function of youth and inexperience, but you would like to see on occasion, SOMEONE, make a smart, basketball play.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The hyperbole offered about some of our freshman after 12 games was often a little tough to swallow. The "best guard since Vonteego" comments was certainly near the top of the top of the hard to swallow list.

I was hoping that Marcus had the potential to be a Julius Page level (which is a compliment since Julius was an All Big East guard). I am still hopeful for this, but agree that little is close to certain at this point.

DT, you're one of the best basketball minds on here and I enjoy your posts but I won this round. But you weren't alone, I saw Carr's (and Stewart's) potential. This board was littered with people saying Carr either wasnt good or was just an ordinary guy. I thought he could be an all-ACC player.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

You know, for as important as this question is I really haven't given this the proper examination even slightly analytically. So let's just do a quick experiment here pulling our future lineup's best case projection and worst case projection from my list of comparable players. Going into this I'm not sure if this is going to make me feel better or I'm going to feel worse so I'm sort of on the edge of my seat here a little.

2020 Lineup

Marcus Carr: Best Case Comp - Truck Bryant, Worst Case Comp - Devin Wilson
Parker Stewart: Best Case - Luke Kennard, Worst Case - Chanse Creekmur
Malik Eillison: Best Case - Bryce Dejean-Jones, Worst Case - Nick Faust
Shamiel Stevenson: Best Case - Anthony Gill, Worst Case - Garland Owens
Terrell Brown: Best Case - Maybe Austin Burgett?, Worst Case - Joseph Katuka
Kham Davis: Best Case - Tyler Newbold, Worst Case - Almost Everyone Else on His List

well in hindsight, this didnt age to well. i dont even recognize alot of these names. but hey, not knocking @thirteenNINE , no one in this world could accurately predict this roster two years out..

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

DT, you're one of the best basketball minds on here and I enjoy your posts but I won this round. But you weren't alone, I saw Carr's (and Stewart's) potential. This board was littered with people saying Carr either wasnt good or was just an ordinary guy. I thought he could be an all-ACC player.

smf, im reading these old threads and not seeing these people knocking Carr.. actually see alot of people knocking Stewart's athleticism and well, that is still kind of valid.. i see a ton of poeple saying Carr needs to develop and well that is exactly what happened...


also, and what alot of you guys are ignoring. even had some of these guys stayed, that doesnt mean they'd be as good. Parker Stewart on last year's team probably isnt nearly as effective as he was on a non major roster.. shamiel stevenson, doesnt even see the court.

Carr, well that one hurts but again, he left and it was a great decision for him.. probably a decision that was the difference from him bein in the nba next year vs looking for a 9-5 job..

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

well in hindsight, this didnt age to well. i dont even recognize alot of these names. but hey, not knocking @thirteenNINE , no one in this world could accurately predict this roster two years out..

I don't know, Truck Bryant was pretty good, though not great so him saying Carr could reach Truck Bryant's level was one of the more optimistic outlooks on this board.

 

[DT_PITT]

DT, you're one of the best basketball minds on here and I enjoy your posts but I won this round. But you weren't alone, I saw Carr's (and Stewart's potential). This board was littered with people saying Carr either wasnt good or was just an ordinary guy. I thought he could be an all-ACC player.

Carr, Stewart, and Stevenson could be starters with a viable center that we haven't had since Gary McGhee (except 1 year of Adams) and an ACC-level SF

I have readily stated that I was completely wrong about Marcus Carr -- I NEVER thought he'd play at a level like he is now.

I don't think anyone did. This is includes you. I'm quoting your own post you used as evidence where you say about Carr (and others) as "could be starters." I don't see anything in the entire thread that states you thought he could be an "all-ACC player." But please, feel free to dig up the thread when you said this when he was at Pitt.

Please also note, that I mentioned that I was still hopeful he had Julius Page level potential, and I noted that Julius was an All-Big East player.

We he was at Pitt, like most (and you) I was sure he was an ACC starter type. I didn't know if he was a starter on a top end ACC team though. I thought the same thing for Parker Stewart, and we still don't know how that will end up.

I noticed you didn't take a victory lap with your prediction on Shamiel Stevenson.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

parker stewart seems like one of those players that is really good, in a specific limited role (AKA 3 point shooting) but needs a strong guard and post play to get him success. Someone that could avg 12 ppg in 22 minutes on a good roster but you put him on a pitt, with weaknesses and he wouldnt avg 6 ppg in 35 minutes...

Just because someone is good in one situation, doesnt mean you put him on pitt, with no interior play, is going to have same success..

 

[Ski11585]

DT, you're one of the best basketball minds on here and I enjoy your posts but I won this round. But you weren't alone, I saw Carr's (and Stewart's) potential. This board was littered with people saying Carr either wasnt good or was just an ordinary guy. I thought he could be an all-ACC player.

Actually, you lost it. You said they COULD be P5 starters. DT is the one who said Carr could be an all-P5 player.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Actually, you lost it. You said they COULD be P5 starters. DT is the one who said Carr could be an all-P5 player.

Ski pulled the receipts, smf
Apparently only dt knows basketball

 

[thirteenNINE]

well in hindsight, this didnt age to well. i dont even recognize alot of these names. but hey, not knocking @thirteenNINE , no one in this world could accurately predict this roster two years out..

I actually am impressed at how well that did age! The problem is that three of the six hit their worst case situation comps, Carr well outperformed even his best case comp but for another school, Brown hit his best case scenario which was a very low bar, and Stewart is an incomplete.

Brown did turn into Burgett, a third center who can block the stray shot but never developed. Stevenson is Owens, a muscular bit part player for a very bad team who thinks that he is better than he is. Ellison did end up like Faust, a broken shot wing player who transferred down and was a big scorer in a small conference. And Kham Davis ended up like most of his comps, just in the wilds of college basketball somewhere.

It's really only Carr who broke out, I always liked him and Bryant was an All-Big East player for a NCAA Tournament team after all, but his playmaking and shooting have hit levels that even last year I would have said were pretty unlikely.

 

[pittchagg]

So I’m confused: have we decided who knows college basketball here, and who doesn’t? Does anybody? Or everybody? Or some of us, but not others?

 

[thirteenNINE]

So I’m confused: have we decided who knows college basketball here, and who doesn’t? Does anybody? Or everybody? Or some of us, but not others?

I always work on the assumption that we all know just a little.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

So I’m confused: have we decided who knows college basketball here, and who doesn’t? Does anybody? Or everybody? Or some of us, but not others?

One thing I’m sure of - anyone that knows it doesn’t need to keep reminding us how much they know.

 

[JD1976]

I for one enjoyed that retro thread. I have to give SMF some credit. Usually he’s ridiculously hyperbolic about everything, but he offered some good projections. Some were on target some were off, but at least he wasn’t in outer space like usual

 

[CougarClaws]

So I’m confused: have we decided who knows college basketball here, and who doesn’t? Does anybody? Or everybody? Or some of us, but not others?

I have to go on the assumption that thirteenNINE & DT are usually way out in front on these things.

 

[DT_PITT]

I always work on the assumption that we all know just a little.

Speak for yourself. I know nothing.

 

[Cavalier Panther]

Stewart's ceiling is Ashton Gibbs. Gibbs was a good player on a team surrounded by other good players. When he was the #1 option, he was pretty average considering the volume of shots he took (35% from 3 his senior year). He wasn't a plus athlete, rarely created his own shot, and played respectable defense.

Maybe Stewart could have done that by his senior year, but we'll never know.