This was posted on the pay board before the news today

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

so it has become more relevant now......but this was in a recruiting discussion. But please, especially the younger folks, read this, this is where Pitt football used to be. Penn State? Michigan? Notre Dame? Ohio State? Whoever was after one of our targets, so what. We were Pitt.

Fralic is the centerpiece to this article....so there is the relevance.

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/01/...e-in-gathering-quality-football-recruits.html

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

No one has read this?

 

[MajorMajors]

Interesting read. Thanks.

Go Pitt.

 

[DiehardPanther]

No one has read this?

Good read. A lot has changed since 1981.

 

[pittizit]

Sherrill..loved him

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

so it has become more relevant now......but this was in a recruiting discussion. But please, especially the younger folks, read this, this is where Pitt football used to be. Penn State? Michigan? Notre Dame? Ohio State? Whoever was after one of our targets, so what. We were Pitt.

Fralic is the centerpiece to this article....so there is the relevance.

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/01/...e-in-gathering-quality-football-recruits.html

Clemson's mini dynasty similar to our 7-8 year stretch. Non-blue blood "regional school" got super good for a decade and then reverted back to normal.

Others like this were:

SMU
Oregon
Miami (they had about 2 decades)

 

[pittmeister]

Good read.... Here's a Letter to the Sports Editors from the Pittsburgh Press 1978.... Well here's a surprise!!! Pitt fans complaining about their head coach and PSU fans! Some things never change...

 

[jtownknowitall]

I wonder what the Pirates offered Pete Rose?

 

[wbrpanther]

No one has read this?

To answer an age old question. "it would not be revenue sharing. Penn State can not afford that". Joe Paterno on how his new league would be set up. And he held a life long grudge because Pitt and some others refused to join.

 

[paulbl99]

To answer an age old question. "it would not be revenue sharing. Penn State can not afford that". Joe Paterno on how his new league would be set up. And he held a life long grudge because Pitt and some others refused to join.

Not many outside of State College trusted Grandpa Munster....he tried to join the BE prior to Pitt even being invited. That’s a fact The Cult in Joetown never remember....

And State walked away from that Eastern BB conference like thieves in the night.

He was a manipulative, deceiving and vindictive megalomaniac....
And a fall down drunk later on

Pitt was supposed to follow him and trust him.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

Not many outside of State College trusted Grandpa Munster....he tried to join the BE prior to Pitt even being invited. That’s a fact The Cult in Joetown never remember....

And State walked away from that Eastern BB conference like thieves in the night.

He was a manipulative, deceiving and vindictive megalomaniac....
And a fall down drunk later on

Pitt was supposed to follow him and trust him.

Here's a great account of those days from a Syracuse AD.

I posted this several times on the old Scout board, and it's a good read, in two parts. After you read Part One, go back to the top of the page to click on Part 2.


https://cuse.com/sports/2001/8/8/history.aspx

 

[FreeportPanther]

The old bastard had the right answer, he just F'ed up the equation to get there.

Imagine all the pain and suffering that would have been avoided all these years if there HAD been an all sports Eastern Conference?
Back then, Eastern football was pretty good, as good as anywhere for that matter. Everyone could have just built on that, and with all the TV sets and population, the rights and network would have been a slam dunk.

We'd have great annual all sports rivalries with the Peds and Eers, and lesser ones with Temple and Syracuse. Maryland always sought a higher football profile and played a lot of the Eastern schools, so could have been enticed to join. (edited)

There would have been great expansion options as well with UConn and Cinci.

Pitt, PedState, WVU, Syracuse, BC, Temple, Rutgers, and Maryland to start, then later add UConn, Cinci, VT, and ND to some extent. Possible Navy and Miami would have joined.

Some pretty big markets there, and ND! Plenty of $$$ to share as well. The old bastard wasn't smart enough to envision the huge contracts that the all sports networks would dish out, regional rights, increased revenue from basketball, attendance revenues from rivalries, etc. He was too small a man for that.

The concept was a good one, and would have been viable and as good a regional conference as the Big Ten, the SEC, or the ACC who at the time could care less about football.

That ship sailed because of his greed and the smallness of his character, but oh what could have been!

 

[RaleighPittFan]

The old bastard had the right answer, he just F'ed up the equation to get there.

Imagine all the pain and suffering that would have been avoided all these years if there HAD been an all sports Eastern Conference?
Back then, Eastern football was pretty good, as good as anywhere for that matter. Everyone could have just built on that, and with all the TV sets and population, the rights and network would have been a slam dunk.

We'd have great annual all sports rivalries with the Peds and Eers, and lesser ones with Temple and Syracuse. Remember back then, Maryland was not yet an ACC school and would have been in.

There would have been great expansion options as well with UConn and Cinci.

Pitt, PedState, WVU, Syracuse, BC, Temple, Rutgers, and Maryland to start, then later add UConn, Cinci, VT, and ND to some extent. Possible Navy and Miami would have joined.

Some pretty big markets there, and ND! Plenty of $$$ to share as well. The old bastard wasn't smart enough to envision the huge contracts that the all sports networks would dish out, regional rights, increased revenue from basketball, attendance revenues from rivalries, etc. He was too small a man for that.

The concept was a good one, and would have been viable and as good a regional conference as the Big Ten, the SEC, or the ACC who at the time could care less about football.

That ship sailed because of his greed and the smallness of his character, but oh what could have been!

Maryland was in fact one of the founding members of the ACC.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Maryland was in fact one of the founding members of the ACC.

Oops.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Not many outside of State College trusted Grandpa Munster....he tried to join the BE prior to Pitt even being invited. That’s a fact The Cult in Joetown never remember....

And State walked away from that Eastern BB conference like thieves in the night.

He was a manipulative, deceiving and vindictive megalomaniac....
And a fall down drunk later on

Pitt was supposed to follow him and trust him.

That's exactly it. JoePa was considered a genius and being forward looking in wanting his All East league. What they don't and isn't often mentioned, this was after the Big East told Penn State "thanks, but no thanks". Then when Pitt said "thanks, but no thanks" to Paterno's self serving idea, and the Big East accepted Pitt.....that was a grudge that he took to his grave.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

The old bastard had the right answer, he just F'ed up the equation to get there.

Imagine all the pain and suffering that would have been avoided all these years if there HAD been an all sports Eastern Conference?
Back then, Eastern football was pretty good, as good as anywhere for that matter. Everyone could have just built on that, and with all the TV sets and population, the rights and network would have been a slam dunk.

We'd have great annual all sports rivalries with the Peds and Eers, and lesser ones with Temple and Syracuse. Maryland always sought a higher football profile and played a lot of the Eastern schools, so could have been enticed to join. (edited)

There would have been great expansion options as well with UConn and Cinci.

Pitt, PedState, WVU, Syracuse, BC, Temple, Rutgers, and Maryland to start, then later add UConn, Cinci, VT, and ND to some extent. Possible Navy and Miami would have joined.

Some pretty big markets there, and ND! Plenty of $$$ to share as well. The old bastard wasn't smart enough to envision the huge contracts that the all sports networks would dish out, regional rights, increased revenue from basketball, attendance revenues from rivalries, etc. He was too small a man for that.

The concept was a good one, and would have been viable and as good a regional conference as the Big Ten, the SEC, or the ACC who at the time could care less about football.

That ship sailed because of his greed and the smallness of his character, but oh what could have been!

Florida State. Remember, Florida State didn't join the ACC until like 1989.
You are right, it was the right idea. Pitt, PSU, Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, WVU, Miami, Temple and Florida State, Navy would have been a 10 team league delivering the Eastern Seaboard.

Here's the thing, we are now in the ACC and somehow they have managed to poach the Big East twice, but after joining this conference, we can see it is not the most forward thinking of conferences. Especially the Carolina triad.

Notre Dame, which definitely has strongholds in Pittsburgh, Boston, NYC, Philly and DC would definitely have had some alliance with this group.

All that being said, 80%l of Pitt's woes have generally self inflicted. Demographics have caught up with us sure, the SEC fully embracing the black athlete and keeping most home has hurt the northern schools. But none of our problems were ever conference related. It is was Pitt/Pittsburgh related.

I was watching a tape of the 1975 Pitt/ND game (Dorsett 300 yard game) yesterday (I never saw it, I was too young) and aside from TD's awesomeness, it struck me on all of these athletes, Dorsett, Jones, Cav, Holloway, etc...al were from Western Pa or Youngstown. Sure, there were southern kids, but through those years, all that great talent. Even on the ND team, guys like Montana, etc...many were from Western Pa. This is no longer true.

 

[paulbl99]

Florida State. Remember, Florida State didn't join the ACC until like 1989.
You are right, it was the right idea. Pitt, PSU, Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, WVU, Miami, Temple and Florida State, Navy would have been a 10 team league delivering the Eastern Seaboard.

Here's the thing, we are now in the ACC and somehow they have managed to poach the Big East twice, but after joining this conference, we can see it is not the most forward thinking of conferences. Especially the Carolina triad.

Notre Dame, which definitely has strongholds in Pittsburgh, Boston, NYC, Philly and DC would definitely have had some alliance with this group.

All that being said, 80%l of Pitt's woes have generally self inflicted. Demographics have caught up with us sure, the SEC fully embracing the black athlete and keeping most home has hurt the northern schools. But none of our problems were ever conference related. It is was Pitt/Pittsburgh related.

I was watching a tape of the 1975 Pitt/ND game (Dorsett 300 yard game) yesterday (I never saw it, I was too young) and aside from TD's awesomeness, it struck me on all of these athletes, Dorsett, Jones, Cav, Holloway, etc...al were from Western Pa or Youngstown. Sure, there were southern kids, but through those years, all that great talent. Even on the ND team, guys like Montana, etc...many were from Western Pa. This is no longer true.

Add to that South Carolina which was not affiliated after walking out of the ACC.....a stink over academics if I’m not misremembering.


Good idea but that egomaniac wanted to call all the shots.

Either way The B1G and SEC IMO could have blown it up at anytime...

 

[JokePa]

Ok did everyone read this????


We were number one by new you times computer in 1980??

According to central Florida that’s another national championship!!!!!!!!!!

 

[paulbl99]

Ok did everyone read this????


We were number one by new you times computer in 1980??

According to central Florida that’s another national championship!!!!!!!!!!

Take it

Pitt probably got one or a couple of those turn of the century so-called National Championships from a Moose Lodge.

Make it a nice even 10

 

[JokePa]

Take it

Pitt probably got one or a couple of those turn of the century so-called National Championships from a Moose Lodge.

Make it a nice even 10

But it wasn’t a moose lodge it’s the largest newspaper in the entire country

 

[paulbl99]

But it wasn’t a moose lodge it’s the largest newspaper in the entire country

No kidding that’s why take Pitt should take it to 10......there was a lot less credibility w Some of those early picks than from the NYT in 1980.

 

[DaveTrout]

Ok did everyone read this????


We were number one by new you times computer in 1980??

According to central Florida that’s another national championship!!!!!!!!!!

'81 too if i remember correctly

 

[JokePa]

No kidding that’s why take Pitt should take it to 10......there was a lot less credibility w Some of those early picks than from the NYT in 1980.

No they were all very credible. But I don’t think this is is not. It’s basically what central Florida used to claim their national championship

 

[cbpitt2]

I wonder what the Pirates offered Pete Rose?

I believe the Galbreaths offered Pete a race horse or two from their racing horse stables in addition to Pete's salary.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Add to that South Carolina which was not affiliated after walking out of the ACC.....a stink over academics if I’m not misremembering.


Good idea but that egomaniac wanted to call all the shots.

Either way The B1G and SEC IMO could have blown it up at anytime...

I dunno. If that got established, couldn't see how the Big 10 been more powerful.

 

[Farnox]

The old bastard had the right answer, he just F'ed up the equation to get there.

Imagine all the pain and suffering that would have been avoided all these years if there HAD been an all sports Eastern Conference?
Back then, Eastern football was pretty good, as good as anywhere for that matter. Everyone could have just built on that, and with all the TV sets and population, the rights and network would have been a slam dunk.

We'd have great annual all sports rivalries with the Peds and Eers, and lesser ones with Temple and Syracuse. Maryland always sought a higher football profile and played a lot of the Eastern schools, so could have been enticed to join. (edited)

There would have been great expansion options as well with UConn and Cinci.

Pitt, PedState, WVU, Syracuse, BC, Temple, Rutgers, and Maryland to start, then later add UConn, Cinci, VT, and ND to some extent. Possible Navy and Miami would have joined.

Some pretty big markets there, and ND! Plenty of $$$ to share as well. The old bastard wasn't smart enough to envision the huge contracts that the all sports networks would dish out, regional rights, increased revenue from basketball, attendance revenues from rivalries, etc. He was too small a man for that.

The concept was a good one, and would have been viable and as good a regional conference as the Big Ten, the SEC, or the ACC who at the time could care less about football.

That ship sailed because of his greed and the smallness of his character, but oh what could have been!

Yep, the idea was a good one but teams will not join a conference where some teams get a larger chunk of the revenue.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Yep, the idea was a good one but teams will not join a conference where some teams get a larger chunk of the revenue.

Nor should they.

 

[the_insider_]

There are a lot of reasons that Pitt isn’t where it used to be or should be. First and foremost, I want to say that I did not attend Pitt, but I’m in my early 20s and I’ve been a lifelong fan. Other than The Fiesta Bowl with Harris and a few years with Wanny my life as a Pitt fan has been torture. I have season tickets with my dad (who also didn’t go to Pitt but is a lifelong fan), my aunt and my dads cousin both of whom went to Pitt. Any way, back to the point. The administration has been a complete joke. Steve Pederson singlehandedly ruined a once very proud football program. Secondly, the culture built by Pitt students plays a factor into it. I have many friends who go or went to Pitt. Most don’t go to the games nor do they really care that much about it. That has to change. Pitt’s a small school, but there’s no reason when they won 7/8 games and go to an ACC Championship Game that Heinz shouldn’t have 50k people. I think most of it is pure laziness. PSU, ND and WVU bring their own fans to Heinz but too many only show up for those games and that unacceptable. Fix those things and Pitt will be where they should be.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Add to that South Carolina which was not affiliated after walking out of the ACC.....a stink over academics if I’m not misremembering.


Good idea but that egomaniac wanted to call all the shots.

Either way The B1G and SEC IMO could have blown it up at anytime...

a bad opinion. Pitt-PSU was bigger than Michigan-OSU in the late 70's & early 80's. If Pitt made the commitment, and the Eastern league would have formed, it would have been more powerful than the Big 10.

Yeah, Paterno wanted too much control. But a smart negotiator at Pitt could have worked something out. Maybe work some back channels at PSU with the board or chancellor. Bozik was a stubborn idiot with no vision who the thought Big East basketball was where he needed to be and football independents would last forever. So he turned his back on PSU and we have never recovered from that decision.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

so it has become more relevant now......but this was in a recruiting discussion. But please, especially the younger folks, read this, this is where Pitt football used to be. Penn State? Michigan? Notre Dame? Ohio State? Whoever was after one of our targets, so what. We were Pitt.

Fralic is the centerpiece to this article....so there is the relevance.

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/01/...e-in-gathering-quality-football-recruits.html

the sad part is much of the damage was self inflicted and could have been prevented, So many bad moves. You expect programs to make one or two....but it was constant in the 80's & 90's (including Pederson deciding to move to Heinz).

But even in the glory days we still lost local guys to the nits. I remember being shocked when Joel Coles from Penn Hills picked PSU especially coming off Dorsett winning the Heisman. Gattuso, Tim Manoa, few others. I guess there was so much local talent you didn't notice as much when a few signed with the nits.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

a bad opinion. Pitt-PSU was bigger than Michigan-OSU in the late 70's & early 80's. If Pitt made the commitment, and the Eastern league would have formed, it would have been more powerful than the Big 10.

Yeah, Paterno wanted too much control. But a smart negotiator at Pitt could have worked something out. Maybe work some back channels at PSU with the board or chancellor. Bozik was a stubborn idiot with no vision who the thought Big East basketball was where he needed to be and football independents would last forever. So he turned his back on PSU and we have never recovered from that decision.

There were NO school's who were interested in the Eastern Conference with Joe deciding not to have revenue sharing. None.

Joe's plan was for each school's football program to keep it's TV revenue without any conference sharing for regular season or bowls. At the time, not many games were televised, but, of course PSU had more TV spots than just about any other school targeted for 'The Eastern'. It wasn't just Pitt who said no, even though Pitt rivaled PSU for TV coverage at the time.

It was a great idea, poorly structured. And Joe was not going to give up control. All of the other schools knew that, and said, "No thanks".

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Only on this forum can there actually be Pitt fans who think paterno had the right idea and pitt screwed up.

Pitt vs penn state is no longer an annual series for only 1 reason-
Psu doesn’t want to play Pitt annually.

End of list

 

[paulbl99]

Only on this forum can there actually be Pitt fans who think paterno had the right idea and pitt screwed up.

Pitt vs penn state is no longer an annual series for only 1 reason-
Psu doesn’t want to play Pitt annually.

End of list

Dumbest POY

You’re confused
Again

 

[jtownknowitall]

Had Penn State joined the Big East, today’s ACC would probably still look similar to what it does today. It might, however, be called the East Coast Conference

 

[FreeportPanther]

a bad opinion. Pitt-PSU was bigger than Michigan-OSU in the late 70's & early 80's. If Pitt made the commitment, and the Eastern league would have formed, it would have been more powerful than the Big 10.

Yeah, Paterno wanted too much control. But a smart negotiator at Pitt could have worked something out. Maybe work some back channels at PSU with the board or chancellor. Bozik was a stubborn idiot with no vision who the thought Big East basketball was where he needed to be and football independents would last forever. So he turned his back on PSU and we have never recovered from that decision.

Actually it was SYRACUSE who led the resistance to Paterno's greedy idea, which he concocted only AFTER the BigEast scorned the Peds.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Only on this forum can there actually be Pitt fans who think paterno had the right idea and pitt screwed up.

Pitt vs penn state is no longer an annual series for only 1 reason-
Psu doesn’t want to play Pitt annually.

End of list

Interesting point.
But we weren't discussing the Pitt/psu series were we?