UCF

[CrazyPaco]

No. But is is about brand awareness, markets, athletic success, etc. IMO if nd ever did join there would be a push to get wvu to join or uconn would be taken over ucf.

It's really about unnecessary duplication of markets that no one wants, particularly FSU and Miami, but everyone else is recruiting in Florida as well.

I don't know about UConn being taken over anybody once football is factored in. Same problem for WVU, but at least WVU has some street cred with their football program. UCF has no chance outside the B12 or some major shakeup where conferences lose existing Florida teams.

 

[CrazyPaco]

He asked for a reason, I gave one, mostly in jest.
I'm sure you're right, but what happened...did Mickey Mouse piss in your wheaties?
Worse places for a fall road trip than Orlando Florida!
It isn't all about research and caps n gowns, and endowments, n'at.

Yes, jest. A hilarious post that was. I can hear Goofy cackling the whole way down Main Street.

Here's what won't factor in one iota into conference membership decisions: fall road trip locations.

 

[CrazyPaco]

you'd have to imagine, if the day ND joins a conference ever comes, Big 10 is a no brainer. geography, competition level, built in rivalry with MIch and Mich state already..

I don't think that day will ever come but if it does, it wont be ACC. I nor they, care what conference their womens swimming team is currently in as a factor with football.

Through 2037, ND is contractually obligated to join the ACC for football if they decide to join a conference. Historically, ND has had major issues with the B10. ND is a full member of the ACC and will have a full share of ACC Network distributions and is obligated by the ACC grant-of-rights as well as the exit fee. They aren't going anywhere.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Through 2037, ND is contractually obligated to join the ACC for football if they decide to join a conference. Historically, ND has had major issues with the B10.

interesting, I did not know this. well, chalk up my post as being factually incorrect, this makes 2 now over the last 10 years. No, make that 300..

 

[CrazyPaco]

interesting, I did not know this. well, chalk up my post as being factually incorrect, this makes 2 now over the last 10 years. No, make that 300..

It might be 2036, but ND's football schedules with the ACC are set through 2037. The ACC's Grant of Rights runs through 2036. On top of the GOR, the conference exit fee is three years' worth of per-school conference distributions, which means it is currently rising every year and nearing $100 million (although much less for ND because it doesn't get a full share of regular payout, but I don't know if future ACC Network money will be included in that exit clause calculation). No one is going anywhere.

 

[PittMan 72]

Through 2037, ND is contractually obligated to join the ACC for football if they decide to join a conference. Historically, ND has had major issues with the B10. ND is a full member of the ACC and will have a full share of ACC Network distributions and is obligated by the ACC grant-of-rights as well as the exit fee. They aren't going anywhere.

Yep. An example about some of the issues between ND and the B1G, ND and Michigan have not liked each other for a long time. The linked article gives some history about when the animosity started.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/7954463/hate-fueled-football-great-rivalries

ND and tOSU have also had issues historically and have played very infrequently in football. As people with a sense of history know, tOSU and Michigan run the B1G.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

I thought their best chance was maybe a package deal with usf for the rickety B12 when Delaney was pushing for the 12 reams champ game blah blah blah and they still passed on them.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Actually, what killed the Big East was split ideologies between football-playing and non-football playing institutions. Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers wanted to add UCF and TCU towards the end. UCF was blocked by a coalition of basketball schools+louisville+USF.

Gee, doesn't that scenario sound familiar . . . ?

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

No. But is is about brand awareness, markets, athletic success, etc. IMO if nd ever did join there would be a push to get wvu to join or uconn would be taken over ucf.

I couldn't see YouCon being taken over Duquesne.

 

[ThePanthers]

Gee, doesn't that scenario sound familiar . . . ?

?

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

?

!

 

[revampedpanthers]

It amazes me that a conference that has the left coast to themselves, everything west of the Rockies from Canada to Mexico, will fail.

A lot of tvs and laptops on the pacific, what is the problem?

Rest of the country isn't interested in them and a lot of their games are after everyone else is sleeping, so while a west coast fan might watch a psu vs OSu match up that starts at 4 pt, a OSu fan isn't watching Washington vs usc game that starts at 11 eastern. Also west coast fans just aren't nearly as into it as east coast and Midwest fans

 

[FreeportPanther]

Yes, jest. A hilarious post that was. I can hear Goofy cackling the whole way down Main Street.

Here's what won't factor in one iota into conference membership decisions: fall road trip locations.

Well, pardon me all to hell, there Crazy Paco!
A bit cranky aren't we??

 

[CrazyPaco]

Well, pardon me all to hell, there Crazy Paco!
A bit cranky aren't we??

No. What, do you have stock in UCF's diploma mill?

 

[FreeportPanther]

No. What, do you have stock in UCF's diploma mill?

Geez buddy, idle chatter on a silly message board............
I know absolutely NOTHING about UCF or USF or Miami or Florida State for that matter.
As if something written here by ANYONE would have any real meaning if the ACC were to expand!
I understand (I guess) that you are the self proclaimed champion of institutional integrity and all, but getting your panties all bunched up over this silly banter is really a serious waste of your vital time.

BTW is stock in UCF a good investment? Perhaps it is with how badly Universities fleece their students and their families and pay their employees (professors and administrators) exorbitant salaries and benefit plans.
Higher education......the next bubble to burst.

 

[djbpitt]

UCF is the largest school in the 3rd most populated state.
I attended the USF UCF game over Thanksgiving and while not a sellout the enthusiasm was off the charts.
If the ACC doesn't grab them, the SEC will.
Frankly, no one outside of Miami gives a sh!t about the Canes and few there do.
Ignoring this school is a foolish choice. Note: in 10 years, florida will have 3 million more residents.

Until they establish that they can deliver the Orlando TV market, no one is taking them. Attendance and viewership for college football is flat or declining. Do you really think the Power 5 members will want to split revenues among yet another member, especially if there's not a commensurate increase in revenues from said new member?

 

[pittdan77]

Until they establish that they can deliver the Orlando TV market, no one is taking them. Attendance and viewership for college football is flat or declining. Do you really think the Power 5 members will want to split revenues among yet another member, especially if there's not a commensurate increase in revenues from said new member?

If you want to go poach a school out of the AAC, the reality is that Houston, USF, and Temple would be better TV partners based on either their market and/or their ability to draw viewers.

 

[thebadby2]

UCF is the largest school in the 3rd most populated state.
I attended the USF UCF game over Thanksgiving and while not a sellout the enthusiasm was off the charts.
If the ACC doesn't grab them, the SEC will.
Frankly, no one outside of Miami gives a sh!t about the Canes and few there do.
Ignoring this school is a foolish choice. Note: in 10 years, florida will have 3 million more residents.

Yeah. just what the ACC needs--a 15th school and a third one from the state of Florida.

Do you think that would positively impact Pitt?

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

is there even any rumors, internet gossip, of conference expansion? I haven't heard any but im not looking. Again, I think these conferences are too big as is. I love the size of the big 12, gtting to play everyone once, none of this division crap that creates unbalanced scheduling and gives you lopsided conference championship games..

 

[CrazyPaco]

Geez buddy, idle chatter on a silly message board............
I know absolutely NOTHING about UCF or USF or Miami or Florida State for that matter.
As if something written here by ANYONE would have any real meaning if the ACC were to expand!
I understand (I guess) that you are the self proclaimed champion of institutional integrity and all, but getting your panties all bunched up over this silly banter is really a serious waste of your vital time.

BTW is stock in UCF a good investment? Perhaps it is with how badly Universities fleece their students and their families and pay their employees (professors and administrators) exorbitant salaries and benefit plans.
Higher education......the next bubble to burst.

LOL. Maybe you shouldn’t be so sensitive about comments to your public posts on topics that you admittedly know nothing about. These topics are regularly discussed in non silly contexts. There are whole message boards devoted to conference realignment and membership.

There are people on here that have a decent handle on conference machinations. ThePanthers is one.

 

[CrazyPaco]

is there even any rumors, internet gossip, of conference expansion? I haven't heard any but im not looking. Again, I think these conferences are too big as is. I love the size of the big 12, gtting to play everyone once, none of this division crap that creates unbalanced scheduling and gives you lopsided conference championship games..

There almost always are rumors and they are almost always garbage. Recently, everything revolves around the B12 and Pac (because of their network troubles). But it is relatively quiet and real expansion appears dead at the moment.

 

[Ski11585]

Geez buddy, idle chatter on a silly message board............
I know absolutely NOTHING about UCF or USF or Miami or Florida State for that matter.
As if something written here by ANYONE would have any real meaning if the ACC were to expand!
I understand (I guess) that you are the self proclaimed champion of institutional integrity and all, but getting your panties all bunched up over this silly banter is really a serious waste of your vital time.

BTW is stock in UCF a good investment? Perhaps it is with how badly Universities fleece their students and their families and pay their employees (professors and administrators) exorbitant salaries and benefit plans.
Higher education......the next bubble to burst.

If you think professors are paid exorbitant salaries then we have different definitions of what constitutes a lot of money.

 

[FreeportPanther]

LOL. Maybe you shouldn’t be so sensitive about comments to your public posts on topics that you admittedly know nothing about. These topics are regularly discussed in non silly contexts. There are whole message boards devoted to conference realignment and membership.

There are people on here that have a decent handle on conference machinations. ThePanthers is one.

LOL right back at you.
Maybe you should take your own advice?
They don't call you "CRAZY" Paco for nothing!

 

[upj87]

LOL right back at you.
Maybe you should take your own advice?
They don't call you "CRAZY" Paco for nothing!

careful, you keep it up and we will not be getting those insightful academic rankings posts in large part because of your insolence. ...you do know that Pitt's business grad school dropped from 34th to 35th last year and things could get worse if these issues are not brought to light here in this football forum.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

If you want to go poach a school out of the AAC, the reality is that Houston, USF, and Temple would be better TV partners based on either their market and/or their ability to draw viewers.

You don't say!

 

[upj87]

You don't say!

If you want to go poach a school out of the AAC, the reality is that Houston, USF, and Temple would be better TV partners based on either their market and/or their ability to draw viewers.

Yep, always great to go with the Rutgers model and thought process of expansion...paying off big time in the big ten..

 

[pittdan77]

Yep, always great to go with the Rutgers model and thought process of expansion...paying off big time in the big ten..

In no way am I endorsing it. None of those schools, including UCF, is raising the competitive bar for the conference. Just pointing out that there are better options for other reasons.

 

[PittMiamiRivalry]

I am a little bit split on this issue. I used to live in Orlando and experienced UCF before its growth. When I was there, UCF was basically a glorified Robert Morris.

Also, a lot of people don’t realize this but it is not downtown by any stretch. It is a fair distance away from center city Orlando/Church Street Station (25-30 mins).

I still have many friends in the area and return there semi-regularly. To a person they all marvel at how much that school has exploded in student attendance, campus size, market presence, athletic growth, etc.

I don’t think what is happening there is a fluke or is going to go away anytime soon.

However, I also cannot see Florida State and Miami, not to mention all the schools that heavily recruit Florida — like Pitt, for example — allowing the Knights entrée into their conference. That just seems like a really bad idea for all concerned.

Why would you elevate them if you don’t have to? Why would any Pitt fan want that?

The only way I see UCF getting into the ACC is if Florida State is raided by someone else. Had the Big 12 succeeded in stealing away Clemson and Florida State from the ACC a few years ago, I would have fully expected UCF and USF — not UCinn and Cincinnati, as is commonly assumed — to serve as their replacements.

I still think the Big 12 erred last year and not taking those two schools for their league. I know that’s what I would have done if I were in their shoes. Honestly, I think they should’ve taken those two schools plus BYU and a fourth school (Boise State maybe?) and it would’ve solidified them forever on every front. However, they probably don’t think they can do that as long as The Longhorn Network is still in existence.

 

[PittMiamiRivalry]

They should have taken UH. But the AAC has a new more lucrative media rights deal with ESPN and will see more of its teams in prime time. Florida will block any SEC move, and FSU and Miami will keep them out of the ACC. Will the Knights sustain their recent success?

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I sincerely think the AAC will carve out a niche as somewhere between a power conference and a non-power conference.

I think they will be widely accepted as the conference equivalent of what BYU and Boise State have done as individual teams. Honestly, I think they’ve already done that.

With the success of programs like UCF, USF, Houston, etc., I don’t think people see them in the same light as they see teams like Miami (Ohio), Troy, Utah State, Marshall, etc. They are clearly better than those teams and they drive more interest in those teams as well. They are also very clearly far more committed than those teams. Just look what they are doing with coaching hires and recruiting budgets and facilities. They are putting their money where their mouth is – nearly every single one of them. That’s why they’re getting much more money from ESPN than those teams are getting.

I’m not sure if UCF can sustain this level of excellence? Honestly, not many schools can. I mean they’ve lost what, one game in the past two years? How many did they lose with their Heisman Trophy candidate quarterback healthy?

I do think UCF can be really competitive for a really long time. I don’t see them getting into the ACC unless we lose Florida State and/or Clemson. However, if that calamity ever does happen, I’m sure that would be the ACC’s first phone call.

 

[pittdan77]

I’m not sure if UCF can sustain this level of excellence? Honestly, not many schools can. I mean they’ve lost what, one game in the past two years? How many did they lose with their Heisman Trophy candidate quarterback healthy?

I do think UCF can be really competitive for a really long time. I don’t see them getting into the ACC unless we lose Florida State and/or Clemson. However, if that calamity ever does happen, I’m sure that would be the ACC’s first phone call.

The problem with both of these words is that in a vacuum, UCF looks like a good football program. But compared to what? They play a genuinely bad schedule. Wanny achieved mythical status with a lot of fans for being kinda good against a similar schedule.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

The problem with both of these words is that in a vacuum, UCF looks like a good football program. But compared to what? They play a genuinely bad schedule. Wanny achieved mythical status with a lot of fans for being kinda good against a similar schedule.

Well, of course. Success is always relative. Winning the AAC is not the same as winning the SEC or even the ACC.

However, that’s a slippery slope. Clemson won the national championship and the ACC this past year. However, let’s be honest, how good was the ACC? Our division was so bad that the team that won it went .500 overall, and their division was the worst it has been in about a decade.

Does that cast doubt on the Tigers’ success? No, of course it doesn’t. They were clearly an exceptional team in a league that was otherwise bereft of exceptional football teams. They proved it in the playoff — because they were afforded that opportunity.

Ohio State did the same thing for years and years in the Big Ten when Penn State and Michigan were each down. The Buckeyes always fielded a very good team but most of the rest of the conference — woof! When you are beating teams in your league championship game by 60 and 70 points, that’s simply not a strong conference.

As with Wannstedt, I think you’re looking at this completely backwards. You don’t think that Pitt then and UCF now wouldn’t love the opportunity to play against a more challenging/prestigious/lucrative slate? Of course they would! However, it takes two to tango.

I was very impressed with how well he recruited given all of our external limitations (stadium, conference, lack of internal support, etc.). I always wondered what he might be able to achieve if some of the factors outside his control would have been more settled? I find myself wondering the same things with UCF.

I watched them play a really good Auburn team in last year‘s Peach Bowl and they beat the hell out of them. I watched them defile Pitt this year in what was arguably our least competitive game of the season.

I think they would’ve easily beaten Notre Dame and Penn State. I don’t think they were good enough to beat Clemson.

If you put the Knights in a power five conference I’m very confident that within a very short period of time (5 yrs max) they would become one of the best teams in that conference. They just have too many factors going for them – which was my original point.

 

[pittdan77]

Well, of course. Success is always relative. Winning the AAC is not the same as winning the SEC or even the ACC.

However, that’s a slippery slope. Clemson won the national championship and the ACC this past year. However, let’s be honest, how good was the ACC? Our division was so bad that the team that won it went .500 overall, and their division was the worst it has been in about a decade.

Does that cast doubt on the Tigers’ success? No, of course it doesn’t. They were clearly an exceptional team in a league that was otherwise bereft of exceptional football teams. They proved it in the playoff — because they were afforded that opportunity.

Ohio State did the same thing for years and years in the Big Ten when Penn State and Michigan were each down. The Buckeyes always fielded a very good team but most of the rest of the conference — woof! When you are beating teams in your league championship game by 60 and 70 points, that’s simply not a strong conference.

As with Wannstedt, I think you’re looking at this completely backwards. You don’t think that Pitt then and UCF now wouldn’t love the opportunity to play against a more challenging/prestigious/lucrative slate? Of course they would! However, it takes two to tango.

I was very impressed with how well he recruited given all of our external limitations (stadium, conference, lack of internal support, etc.). I always wondered what he might be able to achieve if some of the factors outside his control would have been more settled? I find myself wondering the same things with UCF.

I watched them play a really good Auburn team in last year‘s Peach Bowl and they beat the hell out of them. I watched them defile Pitt this year in what was arguably our least competitive game of the season.

I think they would’ve easily beaten Notre Dame and Penn State. I don’t think they were good enough to beat Clemson.

If you put the Knights in a power five conference I’m very confident that within a very short period of time (5 yrs max) they would become one of the best teams in that conference. They just have too many factors going for them – which was my original point.

We covered this last fall and I'm sure we'll cover it again. UCF beat an Auburn team in a bowl game that was a pretty crummy consolation prize for not beating Bama and I don't think UCF "easily" beats ND or PSU. I mean, Pitt wins the occasional upset game but nobody is confusing Pitt for a national contender. Yeah, they humiliated Pitt but that doesn't mean UCF is P5 good or would even be able to sustain success if they were in a P5 conference. There's a gigantic difference between playing top competition every week and getting up for a couple of specific games.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Well, I’m not a trained psychologist, so I could not begin to guess what state of mind Auburn was in when they played UCF? All I know is that they played a football game against each other and UCF handled them.

I’ve also been around college football for long enough to know that every time a team from a non-power conference beats a team from a power conference, everyone trips all over themselves trying to find an alibi for why that happened?

Because of the nature of college football, which is so arbitrary and perception driven, everything is spin, spin, spin!

There are so many rationalizations and excuse making that it’s hard to keep it all straight.

 

[pittdan77]

Well, I’m not a trained psychologist, so I don’t know what state of mind Auburn was in when they played UCF. All I know is that they played a football game against each other and UCF handled them.

I’ve also been around college football for long enough to know that every time a team from a non-power conference beats a team from a power conference, everyone trips all over themselves trying to find an alibi for why that happened.

Completely understandable and equally suspect.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Right, but what we don’t have to guess about is what actually happened. Fortunately for us, we have some factual data to go on, so that’s where I’m going to place my emphasis.