One thing I really liked about that game last night was that way too often in the past when the US got a lead on a team like that, one that they were clearly and obviously better than, the US would take their foot off the gas and just try to see the game out. Not last night. Last night, when they got TnT down they pressed even more to try for the kill. And they got it. You are correct, that could have easily been a 10-0 game had a few shots been just a couple inches one way or the other.
USA Women's Soccer 13 Thai Girlz ZERO
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One thing I really liked about that game last night was that way too often in the past when the US got a lead on a team like that, one that they were clearly and obviously better than, the US would take their foot off the gas and just try to see the game out. Not last night. Last night, when they got TnT down they pressed even more to try for the kill. And they got it. You are correct, that could have easily been a 10-0 game had a few shots been just a couple inches one way or the other.
I have watched at least parts of the USWNT's games, but, sorry, even if they aren't relatively anywhere near as good, I'd rather watch the men's games. And I like The Gold Cup, at least it's a tournament where the USAMNT has a great chance to win, and NO, I really don't care that most of the teams are pretty weak, small countries, it's good entertainment. and some of the teams are pretty good, Honduras, Canada, Jamaica and especially Mexico, who is usually better than the USA.I did see a GC double header in Baltimore in 2015 and had a great time with my daughter and her old soccer coach, USA 6 Cuba 0 and Jamaica 1 Haiti 0. And I think the USAMNT should go all out to WIN the GC and not think of it as just practice for the World Cup.
But there really no misogyny in suggesting the vast majority of countries don't have even 10% of development for girls as the USA.Yet if it wasn’t for strong goalkeeping and a couple posts, the US men last night could have beat Trinidad 10-0. What’s the difference?
Maybe you’re a closet misogynist?.
Just out of personal curiosity? Are they getting FULL RIDE scholarships? Or some partial type thing? I have some friends who's daughter played for top level type travel teams for 10 years and they where paying over $10k/year, and she did get a D1 scholarship, but they where upset it was like $1500/year.
There are very few soccer players who get full rides.
Look at it this way, most college teams have something like 28 - 30 players on them. Pitt had 28 on their roster. Duquesne had 30. Florida State, who won the NCAA championship had 27. North Carloina, the team they beat, had 30. And they have 14 scholarships to split up. So it's easy to see that if a team is giving out several full rides then they would have a lot of players on the team getting little or nothing. And it's hard to build a roster that way, or at least a high level roster.
A lot of players get maybe a half, some even more than that, and then there are players on all these rosters, such as your friend's daughter who are getting a third or a quarter or sometimes even less.
Very well said.That team was very good. All those girls ended up with D1 scholarships and several of them went to high level college soccer programs.
And speaking of the Norwin girls, as someone who knows a little more about them than your average SMF (
Nothing else I could add.
My point was that SMF will say that thailand was a Rec team losing 13-0 against the best team in the world. Yet, he didnt classify Trinidad as a Rec team when they got squashed essentially 10-0 by a mediocre at best US Men’s team. Why is that?
Last nights Australia Norway game was exciting. Decent soccer, some stars on the field, lots of drama, questionable officiating at times, but nonstop action. Both teams attacked from first whistle to PKs.
Norway is missing their best player, but still holding their own without her.
Norway is missing their best player, but still holding their own without her.
I get your point. But I would be willing to bet that T&T has better soccer opportunities for boys than Thailand does for girls.
I will add this...the CM teams from 2014-2016, and the Norwin teams from 2015-2017 we absolutely frighteningly elite. The talent almost overlapped exactly based on class...but the best CM team was likely 2015, while the best Norwin team was likely 2017. But for those two years of overlap between 2015 and 2016, I think neither team lost a regular season game. Both lost unexpectedly in the playoffs in 2015, and then in 2016 the only time either school lost was once to each other (Norwin beat CM in WPIAL final and CM beat Norwin the next week in the state quarterfinal).
Many of those girls on those two HS teams have gone on to nice college careers. I’m proud of all of them. But none of the players could sniff a WNT invite.
That’s right! I forgot about that. I was rooting for Norway. They were better looking.
I guess it leads to the question, what is the value of years of high priced travel soccer, if the scholarship you are going for is more than likely going to be worth way less than what you are spending to get it? My daughter played just one year of travel, hated it, because she isn't obsessed with soccer enough to do it all year round, that year, on a relatively cheap team cost me $5K. She played 4 years of high school, which is what she was most into, and several years in a tryout based rec league that didn't travel, but played in local tournaments against travel teams, that only cost like $300 per year, and multiple years of low level rec teams, in the end she was actually recruited to play at Howard Community College, which is actually a national NJCAA D3 power, for what that's worth, with road trips to NYC, Jersey Shore and maybe Barcelona Spain and they have the nursing program she wants, and annual tuition is like $5K, less than a travel team (LOL)... I doubt she would of gotten a scholarship at D1, but in the end it was actually like a true "Student Athlete" experience, turned out fine, and honestly some of the girls we knew on high priced travel teams we knew weren't as good and aren't playing anymore.
I guess it depends on what someone is playing the game for. If you want to play high level soccer at that age there is one way to do it, and it's not high school soccer. If you want to argue that on a cost/benefit basis there are girls who do not get out what they put in in absolute dollar terms, yeah, sure, absolutely that happens. It all comes down to what someone wants to do, what they want to experience, and what they are willing to pay for that.
I mean people spend hundreds of dollars all the time to go see their favorite band in concert. What value do they get from that that they couldn't get from downloading the album and listening to it at home? Some people surely find spending any appreciable amount of money on a concert to be a huge waste of money, that it's worth way less than what someone is spending. And yet people do it all the time. Because some people are willing to pay for the experience.
If your daughter had a hunger to play soccer at as high a level as possible then perhaps to you spending the money would have been worth it, even if you never got your money back in raw dollar terms. Because she didn't then spending the money wouldn't have been worth it. Every decision is different for every kid.
Paying for a concert one time is different from paying for expensive travel teams for a decade. And true, I would have paid for a few more years of travel soccer if my daughter was really that into it, but in the end she out performed a lot of the girls that played years of higher level travel soccer, so I wonder WTF good is it spending thousands of dollars on it? In fact, she asked me at one point, if I want to play travel, would you pay for it? I said yes, and she made this team, and it was the worst experience of all the teams she was with over the last decade-it wasn't enjoyable-it was like work, and in the end, she is playing college soccer and many others who did the whole travel thing aren't. I don't know? I see it as a lottery thing, people pay for it, and only a few actually cash in. My daughter wanted to play soccer, but not obsessively and she never cared who she was playing with or against, but I'd argue, overall, she's played at a higher level, with better success than most, even vs. many who played for far better travel teams.
Well as I said, to each their own. However the fact is that she didn't play at the highest level. And the fact is that generally speaking practicing against better players and playing games against better players tends to make one a better player. I would hope that anyone that's ever played sports even semi competitively understands that.
That team was very good. All those girls ended up with D1 scholarships and several of them went to high level college soccer programs.
And speaking of the Norwin girls, as someone who knows a little more about them than your average SMF (
I said Norwin would beat Thailand and have a better showing against the USA than Thailand. Maybe they'd lose 12-0.
That was a bad Trinidad team even by their standards. Said it on the football board yesterday. While I wouldn't say they are Rec League players, they have a couple MLS players and mostly USL-level players. A bad team for sure.
I get what you are saying, but to what end? Just to say you did? Playing against the best players can make you better, but at the same time, you still might not be as good as some players who didn't play there. It's true everywhere, that's why some D1AA or D2 players make the NFL ahead of P5 players. I guess if you're actually "having fun" training for soccer year round, then go for it, but it just seems there's little tangible benefit to it, even the ultimate goals of a partial college scholarship or women's pro soccer salary, don't really pay off much? And I guess it does pay off to the top 0.1% who actually get the rare full ride scholarship or make the USAWNT.
I think at this point you are overdoing it. I agree other countries do almost nothing to develop women's soccer, but still I don't think a high school team of 14-18 year olds could beat any of the WWC teams, or even come close.
And you were told by 2-3 guys who know girls soccer 100000x more than you do that if the US Women wanted to beat Norwin by 40 they would. Stop digging in. Maybe, just maybe, it was a poor take by you. It’s ok. We’ve all done it.
Once every 5 years or so, we get a generational type talent in western PA. Klingenberg was one 15 years ago. Canon Mac had one 10 years ago who was better than klingenberg and won gold at the women’s U20 World Cup before retiring due to concussions. And Peters Township had the most recent one who is currently filling the net for the Houston Dash. Add those three to Norwins roster, and that’s the only way Norwin doesn’t lose by more than 13-0.
US women better get their act together or they will be heading home a bit too early. They do not look very strong today and honestly, possession is not looking good. Spain isn't a bad team, but should not be causing this much trouble. I questioned the US defense back in the spring when they played England. I thought they looked a bit weak on the back line. They need Lloyd badly in the midfield. Not sure what is wrong with her, hurt or something. I have a slight crush on Spain's Hermosa #10.
Lavelle and Ertz are studs. They need to play. Not sure who you pull for Lloyd. But Lloyd doe provide a great change off the bench.
Maybe you put Ertz at centerback? Additionally, Dunn is out of position right now at left back.
Why do you do anything? And I mean that seriously, why do you do anything? When you were growing up why did you play basketball or football or baseball or whatever you played? After all, to what end were you playing? I mean clearly you weren't one of the best basketball or football or baseball players in the world. So why did you bother playing? If you golf, why do you bother, you clearly aren't one of the best? If you play guitar or some other instrument, to what end? After all, you'll never be one of the best. Or ski, or sing, act in a play, or whatever?
Most people play high level sports because they love the challenge of competing against other top athletes. Most people have fun when they are doing something like that. If you ask the vast majority of the girls playing on those travel teams why they do it they aren't going to say that they want to get a college scholarship, they are going to tell you that they love to play the game and they love their teammates and getting to travel around playing a fun game with their friends is great.
That you can't seem to understand that boggles my mind.
The fact is that Lloyd isn't one of the best players any more. An off the bench, change of pace player who is only going to play maybe 20-30 minutes is exactly the role she belongs in right now. It's great that she doesn't think that she's slowed down any with age, but she has.
Dunn is the one that I don't get. I never thought she was all that great as an offensive minded player, and as a defender she's a clear step back from there. Surely there has to be someone who is better as a left back than her.
And Alyssa Naeher is another. Surely there is some goalkeeper in this country better than her. Because she's just not that good, at least at this level. Given the quality of goalkeeping that the US has had for the better part of two decades she is a huge step down in quality. When this team loses she'll be a big part of it.
All good points. I posted about the Dunn situation on the football board. I don’t get it. I like Dunn. She can grow into the left back position, but I’m fearful that she’s not ready for France. And She’s an attacking minded player. But have you seen her attacking in this World Cup? I saw more attacking out of Klingenberg, and Klingenberg was a better defender. If Dunn isn’t going to jump into the attack, then What good is she because she’s a liability in the back. Even Spain exploited her today.
Certainly we have better goalkeepers in this country. And I’m waiting for the day Alex Morgan proves me wrong because I have never been a fan and have always felt that she is extremely overrated. She needed replaced after the last World Cup. We don’t have another capable left back on our roster and we don’t have another capable forward on our roster. It boggles my mind.
I think a lot of this comes back to one person. Jill Ellis. Honestly, I just don't think she's a very good coach. She actually reminds me of my niece's coach at Norwin. When they could put 11 players on the field who were a lot better than your 11 they'd clobber you. On the few occasions that the opponent's could put a similar amount of, or even a little less, talent on the field and things weren't going their way they had no idea what to do to try to fix things. Ellis as a coach of someone like, say, Spain, who is a step or two behind talent-wise (for now) but who "plays up" based on system and tactics would be a disaster.
I give Ellis credit because it can’t be easy coaching women with egos. And there’s a lot of them on that team. And they evolved from a team that played very direct in the wambach era to a team that could beat you different ways. So I think ellis should get some credit. But her in game tactics and adjustments have always come into question. It will be interesting to see how she prepares them for France, and how they adjust if Dunn is having struggles.
Yeah, I agree with that. In that respect I compare her to Clint Hurdle. Hurdle seems to be a very good manager of men, but he is most certainly not a good manager at "game tactics", or whatever you want to call it in baseball.
When I was a kid, I played high school football at the very highest level, AAAA on and against the very best teams- 3 of my teammates played in the NFL, one CFL, one USFL, but if it cost $10000/year, my dad would of laughed at it and said "Go play in the park", but I played and was respectable. But it was FREE, public school, back then they even gave us football shoes. If I had lived 3 blocks to the west, I would have gone to a high school that was Class A, I often wished I did, I would of gotten way, way, way more playing time over my 9-12 grade years, I just wanted to play, I never cared about the level or was even conscious of it, or even thought about it. When I was in HS, I knew I wasn't getting a D1 scholarship, all I got where post cards from D3 teams, so to me, it was just about liking to play, liking to be part of it, liking the getting in shape aspect. And I played basketball, softball, volleyball and even adult rec soccer for years, just for fun.
And it's also not all about the child WANTING IT, the child doesn't get everything she wants, at some point it's just a super expensive activity where you may or may not be playing against the best players, maybe the most obsessed players or the players with the most well off parents and some of the best. I was glad my daughter didn't really enjoy the travel thing, it was pretty obsessive, overly consuming, she also did ballet dancing and the travel coach acted like she should quit that? Why? it would of gained her nothing, just more practices in 28 degree weather? LOL. Besides, what other player could kick balls in midair above her head, that was ballet training. In all honesty, I'm glad she DIDN'T get a D1 scholarship worth $1000/year, that's a sad joke.
Just out of curiosity? How do you figure? She has like 100+ career international goals, was that just luck?
Yesterday was not her best performance. Some have speculated that she was still banged up from the Sweden match, but there’s no way she would have played 88 minutes if that was the case. People don’t tend to give her her due because many assume she gets attention because of her attractiveness. However, she is absolutely a superstar player and her technical and finishing abilities are as good as any. Tobin Heath to me is the most dangerous, on ball player the US has had. She is dynamic and might be the best player pound for pound on the roster.
Fair question. She has a ton of caps over several years as the forward for the best team in the world. So she’s going to get goals. That’s a given. To me, she’s just a jack of all trades and master of none. She’s not a great finisher. Watch a series of games and note all the chances she doesn’t finish. She’s far from clinical. But this team coached by Jill Ellis likes to play through her and use her for her hold up play. Her touch is fair. Her distribution is fair and she is fair in the air. Hardly exceptional in any phase of the game. She still leads the tourney for the golden boot I believe. And that’s because she scored 5 against Thailand. That’s what she does. Against a good team yesterday, She drew a lot of fouls which was good. But how many shots did she have? Any? One could say the service wasn’t good, but I would argue that she’s average off the ball and her movements weren’t great and that’s why she rarely got service. She also has average pace. I like my center forward to constantly being pressure on the other teams backs and also create space that allows her wide players and midfielders to get in. She doesn’t do that enough for me.
That said, she still has some chapters left in her book. And I hope she proves me wrong.
Tobin heath was my X factor coming into the tourney. And so far she has proved me right. Lol. We are best when we play through her. And she contributed to goals be Sweden, and she drew the PK yesterday vs Spain. The other PK was drawn by Rose Lavelle who is fast becoming one of my favorites.
Rose is going to be the face of this team in 7 or 8 years, I predict. Maybe sooner once Rapinoe, Lloyd and Morgan retire. Sure, Mal Pugh will have all the endorsements, but Lavelle is a great personality and has the ability to quarterback the attack. Plus, she can create individually. She just needs to stay healthy (always a concern with her) and mature a bit more physically. She is one of my favorites too.
And didn't play all that well, not withstanding the fact that she got to score the two goals. The only game she's really played all that well in was the exhibition, er, I mean the opening game against Thailand.
Honestly, I'd seriously be considering starting her on the bench on Friday. But there is no chance Ellis would even consider it. I'd also drop Ertz back to center back in place of Sauerbraun and go back to the midfield of Mewis, Lavelle and Horan.
And I'd try to figure something out at left back, but at this point I don't know what that might be.
How can you understand that about yourself but not understand that about other people?
If you ask the kids who play on these travel teams why they do it the answers you are going to get, from the kids, not the parents, is things like "because I love to play the game", "because it's fun", "because I get to play the game I love with a bunch of friends", "because we get to travel around and play soccer all over the country", and so on. They aren't going to talk about getting a scholarship to college. They are going to talk about playing the game that they love.
And they get to play it at a high, maybe even the highest, level for someone of their age. I just can't understand why you don't think that's appealing to good players.
There is no other option at left back. We will sink or swim with Dunn.
