https://www.yahoo.com/gma/penn-stat...-evidence-174617093--abc-news-topstories.html
Why do people send their kids to this cesspool?
Why do people send their kids to this cesspool?
Video Footage of PS Fraternity Victim
- Thread starter DiehardPanther
- Start date
The whole thing is sickening.
Not to be too lighthearted given this tragedy, but every time i read something about this incident it reminds me of a little ditty from my own college days (to the tune of "O My Darlin"):
"I'm an a$$hole, I'm an a$$hole, I'm an a$$hole, so am I, but I'd rather be an a$$hole than a Beta Theta Pi..."
I do have to say, that's about the best looking frat house I've ever seen. That chapter must have some very serious $$$$.
Not to be too lighthearted given this tragedy, but every time i read something about this incident it reminds me of a little ditty from my own college days (to the tune of "O My Darlin"):
"I'm an a$$hole, I'm an a$$hole, I'm an a$$hole, so am I, but I'd rather be an a$$hole than a Beta Theta Pi..."
I do have to say, that's about the best looking frat house I've ever seen. That chapter must have some very serious $$$$.
The frat system at PSU is a mess. The school has tried for years to get it settled down but that's where all the big money donors are bred so like most things, it's more bark than bite.
Here's the letter President Barron sent to pretty much everyone on their mailing list...
(I didn't bother to make the hyperlinks work)
Dear Penn Staters,
The recent tragic death of student Timothy Piazza has shaken and impacted all of us in the Penn State community. Our hearts go out to the Piazza family and friends during this tremendously difficult time.
We are reaching out to you today as you may observe Penn State being more vocal on this serious matter. Due to the complexity of this issue, the University believes it is important to offer perspective and background to those reporting.
Further, as the May 5 grand jury findings in the investigation of former members of the Beta Theta Pi fraternity have now been released, you may have questions, or others may come to you with inquiries. We wanted to:
- Share a link to the statement distributed late last week from my office on the grand jury findings;
- Reiterate the commitment Penn State has had for more than a decade to focus on the Greek-letter community and issues that have impacted these groups nationwide, including the introduction of educational, enforcement and other programs, as well as policies that clearly spell out consequences;
- Highlight the unprecedented steps Penn State has taken over the last few months. We have developed a resource with critical context - Penn State Update, which:
- Underscores and contextualizes the national issue with extreme alcohol abuse, that also impacts our community
- References actions taken earlier this year by the University
- Indicates resources available
- Underscores and contextualizes the national issue with extreme alcohol abuse, that also impacts our community
An atmosphere needs to be established that protects and promotes the well-being and safety of all students in the Penn State community. Our efforts are focused on curbing dangerous drinking and other high-risk behaviors, and to bringing out the best of Greek-letter organizations and the communities they create.
Please feel free to use this information resource and share with others as appropriate.
Regards,
Eric J. Barron
President, Penn State
My sense is this really is a problem everywhere, but it's worse than most at PSU. I am personally aware of these kinds of things happening at every major university in the State of Michigan. What's different in this case is it's all on video, and the prosecutors decided to charge all of the individual kids involved in the hazing criminally, which is a big deal and very different from the way these things are usually handled from a legal standpoint.
No, these sorts of things don't just happen. 18 year olds drink way too much everywhere. 18 year olds do really dumb things everywhere. However, when a kid takes a nasty fall down stairs and has a massive head injury - everywhere else they get the kid to a hospital.
Just like pedophiles are everywhere. Only at Penn St. the head football coach lets the known pedophile take kids to bowl games. Group think at its absolute worst.
When I was in school PSU seemed to have the most aggressive Greek Life. This could have happened anywhere, but I'm not surprised that it DID happen at Penn State.
Culture Problem.
Culture Problem.
It could. But it didn't. We need to stop dealing in hypotheticals.
So a couple of questions I have: Have the 8 who were charged with involuntary manslaughter expelled from PSU? From what I read in the Grand Jury Indictment, the PSU IFC stated that anyone caught furnishing alcohol to minors would be expelled. Also, is it normal procedure to have all those sophisticated video cameras set up in every fraternity house at PSU? If so, why? If not, why would Beta have done it?
(1) No - they haven't been expelled from Penn State yet. There's a process for that (due process and all). The University investigation - which I would imagine will lean heavily on the grand jury presentment - is definitely in progress though.
(2) Don Abbey - a wealthy PSU alum and one-time Beta brother (way back in the 60s) donated a ton of money for building renovations back around 2010. Security cameras were part of that renovation. Some of the brothers in the late 2000s had trashed the building, and the cameras were likely Abbey's way of keeping an eye on things, make sure the building he was helping renovate wouldn't get trashed again.
I bet the current Beta brothers sure as hell wish those cameras didn't exist. I tend to doubt most frats (at PSU or anywhere) have security cameras.
Thanks for the info. I think I read the indictment wrong and the IFC rule is expulsion from the fraternity. I also read the short part where one of the brothers while being questioned by the investigators admitted to planning on erasing the camera footage. In retrospect, he probably should have because it's the video that's going to sink these kids.
It's one thing to hear a story and imagine it, quite another to actually watch it.
That video is going to get out eventually (via the trial itself or leaked beforehand) ---- reportedly the video is in HD and full color (!!!!!) --- and when it does, it's going to be absolutely horrible to watch and it will be ALL OVER for the fraternity brothers.
A poster on BWI called this story "Kitty Genovese meets Lord of the Flies." Yep. Add in that these are fraternity brothers, most (not all) from fairly privledged backgrounds, and you have a CAT-5 Hurricane of a story.
I strongly disagree with your statement that I highlighted in RED.
I'm a strong supporter of the Greek System which represents fraternities and sororities.
I was a frat pledge and a brother of a fraternity.
The majority of the brothers of our chapter and brothers of other chapters of the national fraternity were economically average, with about the same percentage of above and below average members making up the 100%.
I'm in my mid 60's and work as a volunteer for our national fraternity organization and I see about the same economic distribution today. We know this when it comes to setting room rental rates and chapter dues.
In a responsible University system there are a lot of checks and balances for fraternities and sororities.
Despite being a supporter of the Greek System but given the history at Nitter U I'm not sure fraternities and sororities should be permited on campus due to the culture at the University!
I have no issues with the college Greek system in general --- I think there are a lot of positives that they bring to the table. (FWIW, I was not a member in my days at PSU)
That said --- in THIS case, most of the brothers who were charged are from fairly privledged backgrounds. Just read their bios. Their backgrounds adds even further to this story's "juice."
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What do you disagree with? I have heard from several PSU friends that this particular frat was one that was rushed by mostly wealthy kids. It was noted for that. Hell, look at the house.
Will you stop with your homey weird distorted views and perception on everything? You are like some pathological defender for anything that hints of criticism towards any right leaning demographic. These were rich, spoiled privileged kids. Doesn't matter if you disagree......
Privileged is just a racial slur for anyone who is white.
Why does race need to get dragged into this? The victim was probably "privileged" too (all white people are considered privileged - hence, white privilege), are you happy he's dead? You seem giddy.
I'm happy hating on all things Penn State, but some folks are just celebrating white kids getting in trouble...that's wrong.
Are you a racist?
When the Baylor football team was in hot water, did you turn it into a race issue? Did you make posts about all those "black kids" raping white girls? I bet you didnt...because that wouldn't fit your agenda, huh?
It can. And it does. Every year. Hazing deaths, hazing injuries. Out of control alcohol abuse and sexual assaults, alcohol-related hazing deaths and injures with frats everywhere. Google it.
I think it's worse at PSU than at most schools. But if you think out of control fraternities are a "PSU problem", you're kidding yourself.
Thank you for the good info. Everyone is Due Process, and PSU Judicial Affairs are involved with that process. I think the Frat Brothers Charged are more worried about Criminal Charges first as normal, Lawsuits Laters, plus whether they will be able even to go back to Penn State.
The Fraternity & Chapter is more worried about Lawsuits as well as Penn State. This is where Insurance and Deep Pockets are targets .
Talk is Penn State sold that land but has a condition in the Deed, it can buy it back at market value and is in the process of how they will remove it from Frat & maybe House from Campus.
An alum, David Abbey, a former FB player donated something like $8-10 million to renovate/build the fraternity house. He is now trying to get the money back. A former frat member told me this.
Well, I certainly hope that video does NOT make it to the general public. As a Mom with kids that age, I can pass on actually having to watch it. And yes, I have read that this isn't some blurry, black and white footage, but broadcast quality in color.
Yes, young males drink too much and fall to their deaths far too often. What isn't common is for a kid to be denied medical help after a fall. It is even more uncommon for a kid to be denied medical help while sharing a house with 50s-something head football trainer.
While I certainly do not condone the actions/inactions of this frat, I think that this points to a systemic problem.
The charging of college kids with underage drinking and furnishing alcohol to minors is way out of control. Do you think that this frat would have waited to call 911 so long if they weren't worried about everyone getting underages? I highly doubt it. At the very least there needs to be some sort of safe haven in the law that shields kids from prosecution for these offenses when seeking medical help.
The charging of college kids with underage drinking and furnishing alcohol to minors is way out of control. Do you think that this frat would have waited to call 911 so long if they weren't worried about everyone getting underages? I highly doubt it. At the very least there needs to be some sort of safe haven in the law that shields kids from prosecution for these offenses when seeking medical help.
Look Mr Hannity, everything is not a referendum on political bias. I just mentioned this as no doubt lawyers will be lining up because of a lot of these kids backgrounds
We studied the Kitty Genovese event (in detail) in a Pitt social psychology class, and it's chilling. The instruction was based on the "diffusion of responsibility" model (i.e. the more people who are present, the less likely that those people present would intervene).
In the fraternity house situation, if the reports are true that some brothers actually discouraged others from assisting, it's even more tragic.
I always hear about these "dry" campuses. Is IUP legitimately dry? How do they enforce it?
Two things I'd like to interject into this discussion (and others about this subject):
1. I was a Chi-O at Pitt. There was ZERO hazing. I have friends from other schools and sororities (Tri Delt, DZ) and they said the same thing. I can understand some looking sideways about sororities, but it was a great experience for me and actually had many rules in place about academics including minimum GPA's, etc.
2. I don't think this kind of activity is limited to PSU, but I DO believe it is more prevalent at schools with big party atmosphere's like Wisconsin, WVU, PSU, etc. JMO.
1. I was a Chi-O at Pitt. There was ZERO hazing. I have friends from other schools and sororities (Tri Delt, DZ) and they said the same thing. I can understand some looking sideways about sororities, but it was a great experience for me and actually had many rules in place about academics including minimum GPA's, etc.
2. I don't think this kind of activity is limited to PSU, but I DO believe it is more prevalent at schools with big party atmosphere's like Wisconsin, WVU, PSU, etc. JMO.
You're just wrong. I've seen it first hand--the fraternity culture and pack mentality at EVERY school is to circle the wagons, coordinate the cover up, and admit nothing. That's what they do, because their futures are at stake, and they are under tremendous peer pressure from their brothers. In the old days, they got away with it, but now, the proliferation of social media and camera phones has enabled law enforcement (and civil attorneys) to uncover the truth and expose the cover ups.
A typical scenario is a local chapter of a frat will get in trouble for repeated alcohol, hazing and/or sexual assault violations, be banished from a campus, and then eventually be permitted to return. The re-organized chapter will be squeaky clean for a couple of years because they are under severe scrutiny, they have conscientious, well-intending new leaders, etc.--and as soon as a few new pledge classes run through, and the scrutiny lets up, they will revert back to the culture that permeates all frats everywhere--excessive boozing, partying, hazing pledges, and sexual misconduct.
Contrary to what anyone may think, that's what fraternities exist for. The partying and the girls. The quaint idea that these organizations are devoted to the development of character, leadership, brotherhood, etc. is long gone.
The poster above who mentioned some kind of safe harbor for situations like the PSU one is on to something, IMO.
PG--with all due respect, the sorority culture has never been, and is not comparable in any way to the fraternity culture. The mindset of the 18-22 year old male is very different from the mindset of females the same age. Incomprehensibly so as between the two groups.
Your second point is interesting, but tell me, what's not a "big party school"? Harvard? Yale? They have some of the most egregious fraternity hazing and misconduct you'll find anywhere.
this same stuff happens at the smaller schools as well.
I think some "Good Samaritan" policies would be an intriguing idea, not just at any particular school, but in general, but isn't there already some in place? Not a lawyer so maybe someone more educated could chime in.
But I do agree even with that, this particular situation most likely would have turned out the same way. These kids were more interested in protecting the fraternity and its members. Don't think any law would be written to protect that, just the person(s) who report the emergency.
I just wanted to clarify the distinction between frats and sororities as I have seen them clumped together in some discussions. Greek life is NOT all bad.
Although I would agree that hazing and copious alcohol consumption can be a problem at any school, I disagree that what happened at PSU that night happens everywhere.
Harvard has fraternities?
And to the above, I am not wrong. Different schools and different chapters have very different values and behaviors. I am sure many are about having parties. Mine was. It was fun. A lot of fun. And yes, fun included tons of beer and girls.
Pledges were not forced to drink. There was no rape culture, and for darned sure if someone got hurt - we got them help!
You do know the Rolling Stone UVa and Duke LAX stories were fake, don't you?
Well I have shared before my oldest was a Sigma Chi pledge at NCSU. He didn't last long, but they were absolutely NOT forced to drink bid night or any night like the "Gauntlet" activity at the PSU Beta house.
Intriguing thought and it should probably be considered, but the penalty for underage drinking is nothing. It's a Summary Offense in PA and carries virtually no repercussions.
They were much more concerned about the fact that they broke some pretty big IFC & University rules about having alcohol at pledge events and then essentially forcing them to drink. Hazing, in this sense, isn't allowed.
I'm also pretty sure they realized that if the kid went to the hospital someone would have been found criminally negligent and the frat would have, at the very least, been put on probation or lost it's precious charter.
I'd guess that their behavior is consistent with past occurrences since they all seemed to "know what to do". Putting a weighted backpack to keep the kid from rolling onto his back, for instance. Not only that, they had zero concern for how they behaved or what they allowed to be seen by the cameras. Simply stated, they had gotten away with it before and just assumed they'd get away with it again.
IUP has claimed to be dry for a long time, but one of the biggest college drinking events in Western PA happens every year at IUP - their "IUPatties" celebration for St. Patrick's Day. Kids from colleges all over the area head to IUP that weekend, heck even high school kids flock to the area that weekend and are readily served alcohol.
