Video Footage of PS Fraternity Victim

[PittPat3]

"Penn State's Greek community "nurtured an environment so permissive of excessive drinking and hazing that it emboldened its members to repeatedly act with reckless disregard to human life.""

Once again, horrific events at UPS made possible (inevitable?) by the culture, yet the cultists and the apologists insist there were, and are, no culture issues there.

 

[PittPat3]

Questions: Where was Tim Bream that whole time? Did anyone think to ask him for advice? If not, why not?

 

[upj87]

IUP has claimed to be dry for a long time, but one of the biggest college drinking events in Western PA happens every year at IUP - their "IUPatties" celebration for St. Patrick's Day. Kids from colleges all over the area head to IUP that weekend, heck even high school kids flock to the area that weekend and are readily served alcohol.

The don't call it I-WhooPee for nothing...

 

[thebadby2]

I just wanted to clarify the distinction between frats and sororities as I have seen them clumped together in some discussions. Greek life is NOT all bad.

I agree with you. My wife's three best friends on earth are her sorority sisters. She had a great Greek experience. My nieces are in sororities and they have thrived in them. On the other hand, I was in a fraternity for one year and it was the stereotypical "Animal House"--they all were. By some miracle, nobody got seriously hurt during my short time, but the organized activities and hazing were every bit as bad as what those PSU Betas were doing. I witnessed the pack mentality and how ordinary decent kids would get caught up in doing bad stuff they would never consider doing outside of that peer pressurized environment.

I have two young daughters, and when they go away to college in 10-12 years, I intend to discourage them from Greek life. Not because I think there;s anything wrong with sororities (other than the standard cliquey, catty, girl drama), but because being in a sorority exposes girls to a lot of alcohol-fueled interactions with fraternities.

 

[pitt-girl]

I agree with you. My wife's three best friends on earth are her sorority sisters. She had a great Greek experience. My nieces are in sororities and they have thrived in them. On the other hand, I was in a fraternity for one year and it was the stereotypical "Animal House"--they all were. By some miracle, nobody got seriously hurt during my short time, but the organized activities and hazing were every bit as bad as what those PSU Betas were doing. I witnessed the pack mentality and how ordinary decent kids would get caught up in doing bad stuff they would never consider doing outside of that peer pressurized environment.

I have two young daughters, and when they go away to college in 10-12 years, I intend to discourage them from Greek life. Not because I think there;s anything wrong with sororities (other than the standard cliquey, catty, girl drama), but because being in a sorority exposes girls to a lot of alcohol-fueled interactions with fraternities.

FWIW - my experience was that the frat boys shied away from any shenanigans with sorority girls. Probably because we were all in the same community and too many future chances to cross paths. I actually liked that part of it.

 

[Jpripper88]

(1) No - they haven't been expelled from Penn State yet. There's a process for that (due process and all). The University investigation - which I would imagine will lean heavily on the grand jury presentment - is definitely in progress though.

(2) Don Abbey - a wealthy PSU alum and one-time Beta brother (way back in the 60s) donated a ton of money for building renovations back around 2010. Security cameras were part of that renovation. Some of the brothers in the late 2000s had trashed the building, and the cameras were likely Abbey's way of keeping an eye on things, make sure the building he was helping renovate wouldn't get trashed again.

I bet the current Beta brothers sure as hell wish those cameras didn't exist. I tend to doubt most frats (at PSU or anywhere) have security cameras.

Most fraternities building new places down south have the cameras for this kind of reason. They want the ability to easily confirm allegations, boot the trouble causers, and limit their exposure as a group by pointing to individual responsibility. The Universities support it and it gives the fraternities a much better chance of not being kicked off campus and out of their multi-million dollar mansions. I think at Alabama they even mandated it.

 

[Jpripper88]

FWIW - my experience was that the frat boys shied away from any shenanigans with sorority girls. Probably because we were all in the same community and too many future chances to cross paths. I actually liked that part of it.

Probably much different at a school like Pitt with a much smaller Greek influence, but what do you mean by "frat boys shied away from any shenanigans with sorority girls."? That seems completely odd to me. Fraternities didn't hold swaps, parties, and concerts with and for sororities?

That would be totally opposite my experience.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Questions: Where was Tim Bream that whole time? Did anyone think to ask him for advice? If not, why not?

Probably in his room jerkin to Xhamster videos with a sock on the doorknob.

 

[pitt-girl]

Probably much different at a school like Pitt with a much smaller Greek influence, but what do you mean by "frat boys shied away from any shenanigans with sorority girls."? That seems completely odd to me. Fraternities didn't hold swaps, parties, and concerts with and for sororities?

That would be totally opposite my experience.

Yes - of course they did. It's just I found that they stayed away from any egregious behavior with fellow Greeks, if only because there WAS a lot of inter-mingling. I'm not doing a good job of explaining myself.

 

[Jpripper88]

Yes - of course they did. It's just I found that they stayed away from any egregious behavior with fellow Greeks, if only because there WAS a lot of inter-mingling. I'm not doing a good job of explaining myself.

Gotcha. I guess it doesn't make much sense to me because they are just vastly different communities, but I guess I get the gist of what you are saying.

 

[pitt-girl]

Gotcha. I guess it doesn't make much sense to me because they are just vastly different communities, but I guess I get the gist of what you are saying.

Well - think about it this way. Would you be more willing to cross a line with a stranger or someone you KNOW you're seeing again? And I'm not asserting that frat boys were doing bad things, just that I found sorority girls were treated with a bit more deference.

 

[Jpripper88]

Well - think about it this way. Would you be more willing to cross a line with a stranger or someone you KNOW you're seeing again? And I'm not asserting that frat boys were doing bad things, just that I found sorority girls were treated with a bit more deference.

I get what you are saying. It is different to me because (I guess) it was different in that the fraternity guys weren't interested in most non-sorority girls, so there wasn't much interaction with the rest of the student body that wasn't at least connected through friends.

But, it is like the spring break/summer friends/hook up mentality it seems you are explaining, but I definitely think (know) that applies to girls, too. Maybe even moreso.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Well - think about it this way. Would you be more willing to cross a line with a stranger or someone you KNOW you're seeing again? And I'm not asserting that frat boys were doing bad things, just that I found sorority girls were treated with a bit more deference.

What is crossing the line?

Full Disclosure: My nickname in college was "The Line Crosser".

 

[pitt-girl]

What is crossing the line?

Full Disclosure: My nickname in college was "The Line Crosser".

Trying a little TOO hard - being a jerk.....

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Trying a little TOO hard - being a jerk.....

I never went for 6's anyways.....

But you know what they say, 4's turn into 8's after midnight!

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I strongly disagree with your statement that I highlighted in RED.

I'm a strong supporter of the Greek System which represents fraternities and sororities.
I was a frat pledge and a brother of a fraternity.

The majority of the brothers of our chapter and brothers of other chapters of the national fraternity were economically average, with about the same percentage of above and below average members making up the 100%.

I'm in my mid 60's and work as a volunteer for our national fraternity organization and I see about the same economic distribution today. We know this when it comes to setting room rental rates and chapter dues.

In a responsible University system there are a lot of checks and balances for fraternities and sororities.

Despite being a supporter of the Greek System but given the history at Nitter U I'm not sure fraternities and sororities should be permited on campus due to the culture at the University!

You're a 60 year old still involved in your fraternity?
That's illuminating into your warped world perception

 

[pitt-girl]

You're a 60 year old still involved in your fraternity?
That's illuminating into your warped world perception

Souf - all national fraternities and sororities rely on members for governance. I have a neighbor who along with his executive role for a national consulting firm, also volunteers his time and works with Sigma Chi chapters across the country.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Souf - all national fraternities and sororities rely on members for governance. I have a neighbor who along with his executive role for a national consulting firm, also volunteers his time and works with Sigma Chi chapters across the country.

Yeah, that's weird , too.

 

[pitt-girl]

Yeah, that's weird , too.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Joe Pa Thetic]

Questions: Where was Tim Bream that whole time? Did anyone think to ask him for advice? If not, why not?

What the hell are you thinking? The frat members should have ruined Bream's weekend?? Weekends are off limits when it comes to dealing with serious matters at PSU.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

 

[ZetaZetaBeta]

No, these sorts of things don't just happen. 18 year olds drink way too much everywhere. 18 year olds do really dumb things everywhere. However, when a kid takes a nasty fall down stairs and has a massive head injury - everywhere else they get the kid to a hospital.

Just like pedophiles are everywhere. Only at Penn St. the head football coach lets the known pedophile take kids to bowl games. Group think at its absolute worst.

We couldn't even keep brothers quiet about stealing a Christmas tree! LOLOL!

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Article in today's news. Noone from Nitter U or the fraternity came to the funeral.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...say-their-dying-son-was-treated-lik/22087232/

When is enough, enough for Nitter U?

 

[pitt-girl]

Article in today's news. Noone from Nitter U or the fraternity came to the funeral.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...say-their-dying-son-was-treated-lik/22087232/

When is enough, enough for Nitter U?

"We haven't seen the video yet, and I don't really want to see it,'' Jim Piazza said. "But I will tell you this: If the board of trustees and President (Eric) Barron sit down to watch the video with me, I'll watch it.

Pretty powerful stuff.

 

[michnittlion]

Article in today's news. Noone from Nitter U or the fraternity came to the funeral.

Unfortunately, several PSU students pass away every year. The school doesn't send a representative to every funeral.

As for Beta --- I had a loved one killed by a drunk driver ~ 10 years ago. I appreciated --- IN TIME --- that the drunk driver's family reached out to me to express their sympathies. But I sure as hell didn't want any of them at the funeral.

 

[pitt-girl]

Unfortunately, several PSU students pass away every year. The school doesn't send a representative to every funeral.

As for Beta --- I had a loved one killed by a drunk driver ~ 10 years ago. I appreciated --- IN TIME --- that the drunk driver's family reached out to me to express their sympathies. But I sure as hell didn't want any of them at the funeral.

Sorry for your loss - I can see the logic in your statement. It makes sense.

 

[Swervin27]

Unfortunately, several PSU students pass away every year. The school doesn't send a representative to every funeral.

As for Beta --- I had a loved one killed by a drunk driver ~ 10 years ago. I appreciated --- IN TIME --- that the drunk driver's family reached out to me to express their sympathies. But I sure as hell didn't want any of them at the funeral.

its very telling that no other pledge or fraternity member attended this funeral.

regarding your second paragraph, sorry to hear about your loss. that's a big fear i'll face when my two little ones get older, into that high school age.

 

[michnittlion]

its very telling that no other pledge or fraternity member attended this funeral.

regarding your second paragraph, sorry to hear about your loss. that's a big fear i'll face when my two little ones get older, into that high school age.

It may be telling ... it may not be.

This event has made me recall a quasi-similar event from my high school years. Two classmates got in a Friday night fight, a relatively normal occurrence among high school boys. Except that things went too far, and one guy started kicking and stomping, and the other guy wound up dead. Certainly didn't mean to kill him, but dead nonetheless. It became a criminal case.

We all got the day off school to go to the funeral. But everyone wasn't necessarily there - mostly friends of the accused. I was a (more tertiary) friend of the accused too (I had nothing to do with the fight) - I went, but even then I did understand the feelings of those who didn't go. Funerals are a highly personal affair, a time of very raw emotions, for the bereaved. I've, unfortunately, sort of seen both sides of this, and I can understanding erring on the side of caution.

Thanks (pitt-girl also) for the sentiments.

 

[raleighpanther]

The parents met with PSU's president. He said when he got word, he didn't understand there was going to be a funeral or a memorial service; he understood it as just some kinda horseplay. Besides, back in his day, they didn't talk about things like funerals or memorial services, so he wouldn't have gotten it anyway.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Probably much different at a school like Pitt with a much smaller Greek influence, but what do you mean by "frat boys shied away from any shenanigans with sorority girls."? That seems completely odd to me. Fraternities didn't hold swaps, parties, and concerts with and for sororities?

That would be totally opposite my experience.

Agreed! We had a sister sorority back in the early 70's and we shared everything literally.
We had joint frat/sorority rushes, shared pledge weeks hell weeks, plus had joint weekend parties all the time!
Actually the sorority girls were way worse than any of us frat guys by a lot!

 

[BuffetParrothead]

s

Sorry for your loss - I can see the logic in your statement. It makes sense.

Pittgirl you are way to nice but the world needs people like you to offset people like me who doesn't believe a word of his bs!

There were other Nitter students pledges, etc, who weren't responsible for the death, in addition to Nitter U representatives who weren't directly connected with the frat or the death.

Sounds like Nitter talk, just like the Sandusky Nitter talk to me!

 

[pitt-girl]

s
Pittgirl you are way to nice but the world needs people like you to offset people like me who doesn't believe a word of his bs!

There were other Nitter students pledges, etc, who weren't responsible for the death, in addition to Nitter U representatives who weren't directly connected with the frat or the death.

Sounds like Nitter talk, just like the Sandusky Nitter talk to me!

Actually I do kind of understand where he was coming from. I lost my Grandfather to a drunk driver when I was little and I can still remember my Mom telling us that the man who did it or his family better not come close to the funeral home or funeral. I can't imagine how I would react as a parent to anyone from the fraternity or the school taking part in the funeral services for that boy. Enraged comes to mind.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

I think it would have been inappropriate for them to attend.

No one who might spark anger should go to a funeral.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

I think it would have been inappropriate for them to attend.

No one who might spark anger should go to a funeral.

Well maybe but I'm sure there's some "non controversial" person at Nitter U and from the National Fraternity who's used to dealing with this stuff and is the person they send to things like this just to say they were there.

This isn't new at Nitter U. A number of years ago an underclassman feel to his death in a dorm while being totally intoxicated.
After than they had another dorm alcohol "overdose" incident.
We're in their media market and get these reports often.

 

[PittPanther44]

While I certainly do not condone the actions/inactions of this frat, I think that this points to a systemic problem.

The charging of college kids with underage drinking and furnishing alcohol to minors is way out of control. Do you think that this frat would have waited to call 911 so long if they weren't worried about everyone getting underages? I highly doubt it. At the very least there needs to be some sort of safe haven in the law that shields kids from prosecution for these offenses when seeking medical help.

Great, great point and idea. It's a terrible tragedy. And those involved acted horribly.

But there are plenty of scenarios where kids would have done the same thing, thinking that their buddy was just hammered, and why risk having your frat shut down, or underage, or furnishing to minors.

So I don't think these are necessarily all horrible kids. They too will have to deal with it, although not at the level of the decease's parents.

 

[daminals76]

The whole place should be shut down...

If you cant go to college go to state..