Virginia Game & Other Dribbles ...

[DT_PITT]

** The purpose of my “dribbling” this evening is mostly just to offer my appreciation.

** No -- I’m not claiming moral victories, or any great strides I think this team is making.

** Nor am I thinking that what we’ve watched over the last two games generates any real evidence that the time for Jeff Capel’s tenure at Pitt doesn’t need to end.

** But let’s give the appropriate credit where credit is due. During our last two losses, as incredibly difficult as they have been, we’ve watched our Panthers play solid and hard fought basketball.

** College Basketball is about the players. They are not professionals. In fact they are sometimes just kids.

** And I’m proud of our kids … or … our young men. They have played better than I thought they were capable tonight, or even against Minnesota even.

** They are playing to the maximum of their abilities, and that’s all any fan can ask.

** I also credit the staff for doing the jobs they are supposed to do. They haven’t packed it in so let's recognize that at least.

** What’s toughest about this loss is that we DID execute offensively when we didn’t down the stretch against Minny.

** I hope everyone joins me in singing the praises of Eze and Mo who were simply unreal turning an 8 point deficit into a four point lead.

** Eze is now indeed the best “walk on” in the history of the Pitt Hoops.

** I will leave it at that for tonight. I’m hopeful this time tomorrow night we, as PItt fans, will feel much differently than we do now.

 

[iMissTheOldDayss]

Great effort from everyone, staff included, really felt joy for Will after he drained a couple smooth looking trey balls early in the first half

 

[DT_PITT]

Great effort from everyone, staff included, really felt joy for Will after he drained a couple smooth looking trey balls early in the first half

We have to get whatever enjoyment from this season that we can and I was going absolutely NUTS (screaming in fact) Eze hit that three. It was an incredible moment.

 

[gary2]

We have to get whatever enjoyment from this season that we can and I was going absolutely NUTS (screaming in fact) Eze hit that three. It was an incredible moment.

Me too

 

[Fsgolfdr]

It was a great effort by an undermanned team . There was no quit in anyone from coaches to the players and you can’t ask for anymore . Well done . Just brutal .

That was a quick 5 second call .

Maybe a conference win or two is out there after all.

For those of you who question his abilities to coach and develop players maybe this team will provide all the answers.

It’s still going to be a long season .

 

[Cavalier Panther]

Me too

I was thinking of canceling my Sling because I wasn't sure how much more Pitt hoops I can endure. But I leapt from my couch and jumped up and down when that 3 went down. Perhaps both I and my Panthers have a little left in the tank.

 

[Chescat]

It was a great effort by an undermanned team . There was no quit in anyone from coaches to the players and you can’t ask for anymore . Well done . Just brutal .

That was a quick 5 second call .

Maybe a conference win or two is out there after all.

For those of you who question his abilities to coach and develop players maybe this team will provide all the answers.

It’s still going to be a long season .

Maybe like you said," there
is a conference win or two
out there." One week ago, I
thought not. As for Capel,
my problems with him have
to do with not building a
viable program in four years,
lack of recruiting and getting
ACC level players, and inner
team player problems.

I've posted over and over that
the problems here are not in
game X's and O's. Coaches at
this level know X's and O's. Of
course some coaches are better
than others. These guys are
showing improvement as a
team. IMO Capel obviously is
getting them as game ready
as possible given the talent.
No Femi, a walk on, a mediocre
transfer, and a frosh in the
backcourt?........Gotta give
credit where it's due.

With that said, if Capel can't
change the recruiting problem
and get real ACC players here,
he has to be let go.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Maybe like you said," there
is a conference win or two
out there." One week ago, I
thought not. As for Capel,
my problems with him have
to do with not building a
viable program in four years,
lack of recruiting and getting
ACC level players, and inner
team player problems.

I've posted over and over that
the problems here are not in
game X's and O's. Coaches at
this level know X's and O's. Of
course some coaches are better
than others. These guys are
showing improvement as a
team. IMO Capel obviously is
getting them as game ready
as possible given the talent.
No Femi, a walk on, a mediocre
transfer, and a frosh in the
backcourt?........Gotta give
credit where it's due.

With that said, if Capel can't
change the recruiting problem
and get real ACC players here,
he has to be let go.

I’m in no way excusing JC of the responsibilities of having a viable roster in his 4th yr here , but the larger question is why can’t he recruit ? Why couldn’t KS recruit at Pitt as equally well as he did in in Vanderbilt. And why was JD unable to effectively recruit his las few seasons here ? There is a trend here !

 

[DT_PITT]

I’m in no way excusing JC of the responsibilities of having a viable roster in his 4th yr here , but the larger question is why can’t he recruit ? Why couldn’t KS recruit at Pitt as equally well as he did in in Vanderbilt. And why was JD unable to effectively recruit his las few seasons here ? There is a trend here !

A trend that worries me as well.

 

[Chescat]

I’m in no way excusing JC of the responsibilities of having a viable roster in his 4th yr here , but the larger question is why can’t he recruit ? Why couldn’t KS recruit at Pitt as equally well as he did in in Vanderbilt. And why was JD unable to effectively recruit his las few seasons here ? There is a trend here !

There certainly is a "trend."
What the root causes of
the trend are, we can only
guess. I'm sure there are
reasons, and we all have our
ideas as to what they might
be. Bottom line....whatever
they are, it's the coach's
responsibility to right the
ship. If he can't, he has to
go.

 

[BTisinDC]

I’m in no way excusing JC of the responsibilities of having a viable roster in his 4th yr here , but the larger question is why can’t he recruit ? Why couldn’t KS recruit at Pitt as equally well as he did in in Vanderbilt. And why was JD unable to effectively recruit his las few seasons here ? There is a trend here !

Not sure I can agree. JC recruited well until this last class. XJ and Toney are excelling at their schools, Champ is in the pro's, he pulled in Sibande over a host of SEC teams if I remember correctly, and Horton over Alabama or was it Arkansas.

There's a problem, but JC's recruiting was above the line until things fell apart last year. So, IMO, he broke whatever trend was there from Dixon and Sleepy.

 

[gary2]

Capel did recruit. Unfortunately he could not mold, control, Coach or maintain the talent he had recruited.

He admits to tearing it down.

He is totally responsible for creating a situation where he can no longer recruit.

Pitt did not fail in recognizing that recruiting was a problem and they needed to hire someone who could recruit. Pitt succeeded. He did recruit. What came after caused the recruiting situation we are looking at today.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

There certainly is a "trend."
What the root causes of
the trend are, we can only
guess. I'm sure there are
reasons, and we all have our
ideas as to what they might
be. Bottom line....whatever
they are, it's the coach's
responsibility to right the
ship. If he can't, he has to
go.

How many coaches have to go before they find the right guy ?

Why will the next guy do better ?

What level of success is the right amount of success ?

How long does the right guy stay ?

How much money do they spend until they find the next successful coach ?

It’s easy to say just get the right guy in there and he’ll win , it’s a lot more difficult to find him , keep him and fund this continual search .

Bill Belichick might just be the greatest Fb coach in the history of pro football , but he failed at Cleveland !

 

[PittPoker]

I’m in no way excusing JC of the responsibilities of having a viable roster in his 4th yr here , but the larger question is why can’t he recruit ? Why couldn’t KS recruit at Pitt as equally well as he did in in Vanderbilt. And why was JD unable to effectively recruit his las few seasons here ? There is a trend here !

He started off recruiting imo pretty well. Unfortunately when locker room issues and transfers start making the rounds on social media other recruits get scared and back off. Last year imo we were at Capel's height when we beat Duke. Pitt should have capitalized on that and finished strong to make the dance. Instead inexplicably the team became very dysfunctional, transfers from 2 top players of ours mid season and another collapse down the stretch. Why on earth would any high end recruit seriously consider coming here with all of that? Now the damage is done, the word unfortunately I believe is out on Capel and his staff and I'm sure other coaches are using all of this as well as ammunition.

Capel had a chance to turn that corner in year 3 but he blew it. Now it's too late.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Capel did recruit. Unfortunately he could not mold, control, Coach or maintain the talent he had recruited.

He admits to tearing it down.

He is totally responsible for creating a situation where he can no longer recruit.

Pitt did not fail in recognizing that recruiting was a problem and they needed to hire someone who could recruit. Pitt succeeded. He did recruit. What came after caused the recruiting situation we are looking at today.

Not sure I can agree. JC recruited well until this last class. XJ and Toney are excelling at their schools, Champ is in the pro's, he pulled in Sibande over a host of SEC teams if I remember correctly, and Horton over Alabama or was it Arkansas.

There's a problem, but JC's recruiting was above the line until things fell apart last year. So, IMO, he broke whatever trend was there from Dixon and Sleepy.

He started off recruiting imo pretty well. Unfortunately when locker room issues and transfers start making the rounds on social media other recruits get scared and back off. Last year imo we were at Capel's height when we beat Duke. Pitt should have capitalized on that and finished strong to make the dance. Instead inexplicably the team became very dysfunctional, transfers from 2 top players of ours mid season and another collapse down the stretch. Why on earth would any high end recruit seriously consider coming here with all of that? Now the damage is done, the word unfortunately I believe is out on Capel and his staff and I'm sure other coaches are using all of this as well as ammunition.

Capel had a chance to turn that corner in year 3 but he blew it. Now it's too late.

JD had a #1 team in the polls that was also a #1 seed in the tournament and recruiting fell off .

There has to be reasons , it’s just not JC .

Players quitting on their teammates shows their character not the coaches .Play the season out then move on , don’t quit mid semester on your buds .

When did Pitt really recruit as well as anybody in the country …. when the Golden Panthers were in full bloom . It’s not that hard to understand where their difficulties in securing top talent lies .

Thinking Pitt has what it takes to hire a coach with the name recognition to turn this around is wishful thinking .

 

[PittPoker]

JD had a #1 team in the polls that was also a #1 seed in the tournament and recruiting fell off .

There has to be reasons , it’s just not JC .

Players quitting on their teammates shows theit character not the coaches .Play the season out then move on , don’t quit mid semester on your buds .

When did Pitt really recruit as well as anybody in the country …. when the Golden Panthers were in full bloom . It’s not that hard to understand where their difficulties in securing top talent lies .

Thinking Pitt has what it takes to hire a coach with the name recognition to turn this around is wishful thinking .

I disagree. Get the right coach in here and some good assistants and get that locker room right, win some games and good things will follow.

 

[Vader_Storm]

** The purpose of my “dribbling” this evening is mostly just to offer my appreciation.

** No -- I’m not claiming moral victories, or any great strides I think this team is making.

** Nor am I thinking that what we’ve watched over the last two games generates any real evidence that the time for Jeff Capel’s tenure at Pitt doesn’t need to end.

** But let’s give the appropriate credit where credit is due. During our last two losses, as incredibly difficult as they have been, we’ve watched our Panthers play solid and hard fought basketball.

** College Basketball is about the players. They are not professionals. In fact they are sometimes just kids.

** And I’m proud of our kids … or … our young men. They have played better than I thought they were capable tonight, or even against Minnesota even.

** They are playing to the maximum of their abilities, and that’s all any fan can ask.

** I also credit the staff for doing the jobs they are supposed to do. They haven’t packed it in so let's recognize that at least.

** What’s toughest about this loss is that we DID execute offensively when we didn’t down the stretch against Minny.

** I hope everyone joins me in singing the praises of Eze and Mo who were simply unreal turning an 8 point deficit into a four point lead.

** Eze is now indeed the best “walk on” in the history of the Pitt Hoops.

** I will leave it at that for tonight. I’m hopeful this time tomorrow night we, as PItt fans, will feel much differently than we do now.

The question is, what will the 4-some do by seasons end regarding Nate, Will, Big John, and Femi and how much will they improve as the season moves forward. Now look at the 4 of them through 8 games,

ORTG offensive efficiency numbers

Big John- 102
Nate-95
Femi-92
Jeffress-91


Those are starting to look like early building blocks if this continues to hold. Jeffress offensive efficiency numbers have come way up the last 3 games he has played.

The game against Virginia was the best offensive game of the season for us as a team.


The predictions thus far that the offense would be far worse against Power 6 teams have proven to be false thus far. I expect and predict, as this season moves forward, our offense will continue to get better and more efficient against better competition, not worse. If these 4 can hold at 95+ at seasons end, we certainly will have something to look forward to next year.

I also think losing last game will help this team to work harder and improve because they know they are knocking on the door to some wins.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I disagree. Get the right coach in here and some good assistants and get that locker room right, win some games and good things will follow.

If there was a magic formula for getting the right coach !

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

JD had a #1 team in the polls that was also a #1 seed in the tournament and recruiting fell off .

There has to be reasons , it’s just not JC .

Players quitting on their teammates shows theit character not the coaches .Play the season out then move on , don’t quit mid semester on your buds .

When did Pitt really recruit as well as anybody in the country …. when the Golden Panthers were in full bloom . It’s not that hard to understand where their difficulties in securing top talent lies .

Thinking Pitt has what it takes to hire a coach with the name recognition to turn this around is wishful thinking .

Pitt isn’t going to land elite recruits, so they need to hire a good coach that has developed a program at a lower level. It is easier to rebuild now than ever before because of the new transfer rule.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

The question is, what will the 4-some do by seasons end regarding Nate, Will, Big John, and Femi and how much will they improve as the season moves forward. Now look at the 4 of them through 8 games,

ORTG offensive efficiency numbers

Big John- 102
Nate-95
Femi-92
Jeffress-91


Those are starting to look like early building blocks if this continues to hold. Jeffress offensive efficiency numbers have come way up the last 3 games he has played.

The game against Virginia was the best offensive game of the season for us as a team.


The predictions thus far that the offense would be far worse against Power 6 teams have proven to be false thus far. I expect and predict, as this season moves forward, our offense will continue to get better and more efficient against better competition, not worse. If these 4 can hold at 95+ at seasons end, we certainly will have something to look forward to next year.

I also think losing last game will help this team to work harder and improve because they know they are knocking on the door to some wins.

Femi is using Pitt as a juco. He will Not be back next year regardless of who the coach is. Why do you keep needing to be told this?

 

[Chescat]

I like your optimism, but I'm
not as certain as you that they
can improve all that much. IMO
they need help, in fact a lot of
help. That added help can only
come from recruits and/or
transfers. So far there are none
and from what we know, there
are none on the near horizon.
You follow the recruiting news....
Is Capel in on any difference
makers? If not, other than some
marginal improvement by this
group, this team and Capel are
in trouble. Will they themselves
transfer, and what can Capel
bring in as replacements?

I also think losing last game will help this team to work harder and improve because they know they are knocking on the door to some wins.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I like your optimism, but I'm
not as certain as you that they
can improve all that much. IMO
they need help, in fact a lot of
help. That added help can only
come from recruits and/or
transfers. So far there are none
and from what we know, there
are none on the near horizon.
You follow the recruiting news....
Is Capel in on any difference
makers? If not, other than some
marginal improvement by this
group, this team and Capel are
in trouble. Will they themselves
transfer, and what can Capel
bring in as replacements?

Short answer, no. Long answer. Eff no.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Pitt isn’t going to land elite recruits, so they need to hire a good coach that has developed a program at a lower level. It is easier to rebuild now than ever before because of the new transfer rule.

Its about the development of the players, the 4 young players and Collier too if you want to throw him in there. If they improve and develop, then Capel and his staff are doing their job during the regular season.

3 games ago, people were ripping into an 18 year old kid in Will Jeffress, a player that should be playing his 1st season at Pitt because of his age, not his second season.

The irony in this is, some people don't even remember the years and Im talking years it took for some of the original Pitt stars to find their footing on a basketball floor in college, whether that was Patterson, Wanamaker, Woodall, Sam Young, Nasir Robinson, Mcghee etc... People also forget just how close Sam Young was to transferring after his sophomore season before he blew up his junior season.

People might not want to give Capel a chance this year because of what has happened the last few years. But the young players on this team absolutely deserve a chance to improve and get better without people constantly ripping into them. There isn't a Brandin Knight in this program to teach the young guys.

 

[Chescat]

Short answer, no. Long answer. Eff no.

Well, I tried to give Vader
and opportunity to explain
his optimism.. Unlike me,
I didn't even attack the over
use of ORTG's. Your answer
is "short" and simple. I wish I
saw something, ANYTHING
that shows me that we're
suddenly going to bring in
much needed help. Capel
might be getting a lot out
of these guys at the moment,
but as the season wears on
them I can't see it happening
on a continual basis.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Its about the development of the players, the 4 young players and Collier too if you want to throw him in there. If they improve and develop, then Capel and his staff are doing their job during the regular season.

3 games ago, people were ripping into an 18 year old kid in Will Jeffress, a player that should be playing his 1st season at Pitt because of his age, not his second season.

The irony in this is, some people don't even remember the years and Im talking years it took for some of the original Pitt stars to find their footing on a basketball floor in college, whether that was Patterson, Wanamaker, Woodall, Sam Young, Nasir Robinson, Mcghee etc... People also forget just how close Sam Young was to transferring after his sophomore season before he blew up his junior season.

People might not want to give Capel a chance this year because of what has happened the last few years. But the young players on this team absolutely deserve a chance to improve and get better without people constantly ripping into them. There isn't a Brandin Knight in this program to teach the young guys.

Literally no one forgets any of the stuff you mention. You mention exceptions rather than the rule.

William Jeffress is still not good enough for ACC basketball and had 3 terrible mistakes in 10 seconds last night. Not sure why you think that’s a good example

 

[gary2]

Its about the development of the players, the 4 young players and Collier too if you want to throw him in there. If they improve and develop, then Capel and his staff are doing their job during the regular season.

3 games ago, people were ripping into an 18 year old kid in Will Jeffress, a player that should be playing his 1st season at Pitt because of his age, not his second season.

The irony in this is, some people don't even remember the years and Im talking years it took for some of the original Pitt stars to find their footing on a basketball floor in college, whether that was Patterson, Wanamaker, Woodall, Sam Young, Nasir Robinson, Mcghee etc... People also forget just how close Sam Young was to transferring after his sophomore season before he blew up his junior season.

People might not want to give Capel a chance this year because of what has happened the last few years. But the young players on this team absolutely deserve a chance to improve and get better without people constantly ripping into them. There isn't a Brandin Knight in this program to teach the young guys.

If you are into development, you play Jeffress and Collier.

If you are trying to win every game, maybe they should play a lot less.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Well, I tried to give Vader
and opportunity to explain
his optimism.. Unlike me,
I didn't even attack the over
use of ORTG's. Your answer
is "short" and simple. I wish I
saw something, ANYTHING
that shows me that we're
suddenly going to bring in
much needed help. Capel
might be getting a lot out
of these guys at the moment,
but as the season wears on
them I can't see it happening
on a continual basis.

The first 8 games of last season were literally the least efficient games on offense all of last year. Last years offense improved dramatically as the season went on. It was last years defense that collapsed.

Im in wait and see mode with the young players. But most young players improve. Some improve a lot, some a little. Its tbd.

 

[PittMan 72]

I’m in no way excusing JC of the responsibilities of having a viable roster in his 4th yr here , but the larger question is why can’t he recruit ? Why couldn’t KS recruit at Pitt as equally well as he did in in Vanderbilt. And why was JD unable to effectively recruit his las few seasons here ? There is a trend here !

Sure appears as if the primary issues around the program are now - and have been for some time - about recruiting. So the word “trend” does seem appropriate. Why? Probably a combination of several reasons. IDK. But it HAS to change for the better. And VERY soon.

With Jeff Capel, the problem right now transcends just player acquisition. It also involves player RETENTION. That has made the situation a LOT more problematic.

 

[Chescat]

The first 8 games of last season were literally the least efficient games on offense all of last year. Last years offense improved dramatically as the season went on. It was last years defense that collapsed.

Im in wait and see mode with the young players. But most young players improve. Some improve a lot, some a little. Its tbd.

Yes they do improve, but
when they're so far behind
the eight ball at the start,
they can't close the gap all
that much to make a real
difference. The OTHER ACC
young players also improve.

 

[Pittisit4me]

He started off recruiting imo pretty well. Unfortunately when locker room issues and transfers start making the rounds on social media other recruits get scared and back off. Last year imo we were at Capel's height when we beat Duke. Pitt should have capitalized on that and finished strong to make the dance. Instead inexplicably the team became very dysfunctional, transfers from 2 top players of ours mid season and another collapse down the stretch. Why on earth would any high end recruit seriously consider coming here with all of that? Now the damage is done, the word unfortunately I believe is out on Capel and his staff and I'm sure other coaches are using all of this as well as ammunition.

Capel had a chance to turn that corner in year 3 but he blew it. Now it's too late.

It looks like you are right. However, this team would look much better if Horton was available and Penny returned. Things don't always go smoothly or the way you expect. Mintz was an excellent recruit, and rumor was he was working on getting others to come here. The fact that he couldn't get anyone else to join him is alarming. Capel has some nice connections with coaches and players at the high school and prep levels, but, one must remember we are Pitt, not Duke. Recruiting here had gone sour on Dixon also.

I am not defending Capel, although, after the Duke game I thought he had us back to a tournament level or close. It just shows how hard it will be to get this thing back where we would all like for any coach. Pitt's program is in basketball purgatory right now. It is going to take a special coach and staff to move it forward. If and when we let Capel go, we better get the right guy for the job.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Pitt isn’t going to land elite recruits, so they need to hire a good coach that has developed a program at a lower level. It is easier to rebuild now than ever before because of the new transfer rule.

Ok , so you accept that Pitt will be just a nothing program in the ACC , a good season they win 7-9 games and Pitt now draws about 5000 fans a game with the occasional sellout for Duke or UNC .

What’s the incentive for eating millions ?

Until the separation money goes down they’ll give Jc every chance they possibly can to dig himself out of this mess .

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Ok , so you accept that Pitt will be just a nothing program in the ACC , a good season they win 7-9 games and Pitt now draws about 5000 fans a game with the occasional sellout for Duke or UNC .

That is most certainly NOT what he said.

Jamie Dixon didn't land elite recruits (for the most part). But he did get in good recruits and he coached them up. Was he a part of a nothing program where a good season was 7-9 wins?

 

[Vader_Storm]

Yes they do improve, but
when they're so far behind
the eight ball at the start,
they can't close the gap all
that much to make a real
difference. The OTHER ACC
young players also improve.

I think there are some positive takeaways from the young guys. Jeffress for example, his last 3 games ORTG were 120, 93, 160. That's the best 3 game stretch of his entire career on offense and something far better than someone like Drumgoole ever accomplished.

If we focus on Jeffress for example, in his last 3 games he is

-6-10 on 3's his last 3 games, 60%

-is 50% from the field on his shots

-is averaging 6.33 boards per game

-has 2 total turnovers in 3 games, a huge turnaround for him when he was a turnover machine earlier in the year when trying to do too much

-his defense has been respectable, not great, but respectable


This is a player for example that is clearly showing signs of life when a lot of people thought he was dead in the water 3 games ago. Again, lets see some more games and what happens, but there are some positives here with the young players which is what is most important.

Now I know Joe or someone will chime in here about Jeffress having a low usage rate the last 3 games. And I fully understand that. But still, I think there is more than enough here to show he has made some significant strides foward.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I think there are some positive takeaways from the young guys. Jeffress for example, his last 3 games ORTG were 120, 93, 160. That's the best 3 game stretch of his entire career on offense and something far better than someone like Drumgoole ever accomplished.

If we focus on Jeffress for example, in his last 3 games he is

-6-10 on 3's his last 3 games, 60%

-is 50% from the field on his shots

-is averaging 6.33 boards per game

-has 2 total turnovers in 3 games, a huge turnaround for him when he was a turnover machine earlier in the year when trying to do too much

-his defense has been respectable, not great, but respectable


This is a player for example that is clearly showing signs of life when a lot of people thought he was dead in the water 3 games ago. Again, lets see some more games and what happens, but there are some positives here with the young players which is what is most important.

Now I know Joe or someone will chime in here about Jeffress having a low usage rate the last 3 games. And I fully understand that. But still, I think there is more than enough here to show he has made some significant strides foward.

As I’ve said I don’t understand all these stats.

But let’s take Jeffress as an example here. He hit 2 early 3s then nothing else correct? Then scores zero the rest of the game. Yet that rating is sky high. Feels misleading but I’ll stress again I’m uneducated. And I assume that’s why you mentioned usage rate. Tell me why I’m out of my mind. And let’s restrict it to these ratings.

Seems to me you put way too much emphasis on just one rating and it doesn’t provide the whole picture.

And no matter what you tell me using a one-game sample is indicative of nothing.

 

[Vader_Storm]

As I’ve said I don’t understand all these stats.

But let’s take Jeffress as an example here. He hit 2 early 3s then nothing else correct? Then scores zero the rest of the game. Yet that rating is sky high. Feels misleading but I’ll stress again I’m uneducated. And I assume that’s why you mentioned usage rate. Tell me why I’m out of my mind. And let’s restrict it to these ratings.

Seems to me you put way too much emphasis on just one rating and it doesn’t provide the whole picture.

The usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor. Generally speaking, when a player uses more possessions, his efficiency decreases. In other words, a single player trying to shoulder a big chunk of the offensive load by himself, like Femi in the early going this season with a high usage rate, his ORTG efficiency is generally going to suffer because of it, especially without adequate help.

The more players with high ORTG's which is their offensive efficiency rating, the higher the overall efficiency rating the team will be on offense. The goal is to be as efficient as possible on offense and on defense.

Jeffress being more efficient on offense helps the team, especially when he isn't constantly turning the basketball over. As Jeffress becomes a better player in time and a more rounded offensive player, he can take on a higher usage and higher responsibility in the offense.

So its not just taking and making a couple shots per game. Its also ball control on offense with respect to assists and turnovers. A few players increasing their ORTG like this will greatly help the offense, especially when it comes to knocking down 3 point shots because Hugley is seeing double teams constantly and 3 point shooters is what will help him by opening up the paint.

 

[Chescat]

I think there are some positive takeaways from the young guys. Jeffress for example, his last 3 games ORTG were 120, 93, 160. That's the best 3 game stretch of his entire career on offense and something far better than someone like Drumgoole ever accomplished.

If we focus on Jeffress for example, in his last 3 games he is

-6-10 on 3's his last 3 games, 60%

-is 50% from the field on his shots

-is averaging 6.33 boards per game

-has 2 total turnovers in 3 games, a huge turnaround for him when he was a turnover machine earlier in the year when trying to do too much

-his defense has been respectable, not great, but respectable


This is a player for example that is clearly showing signs of life when a lot of people thought he was dead in the water 3 games ago. Again, lets see some more games and what happens, but there are some positives here with the young players which is what is most important.

Now I know Joe or someone will chime in here about Jeffress having a low usage rate the last 3 games. And I fully understand that. But still, I think there is more than enough here to show he has made some significant strides foward.

For starters it's hilarious that
you would use Drumgoole as
an example to make your point.
That's the same Drumgoole who
you over hyped and did Zero.
He' s now become your whipping
boy...too funny.

Secondly, I'll give you that they
can and will improve. The point I
made, that you of course wouldn't
address, is that the other ACC
teams have players who were
far and away better than ours
to begin with. Again, they too will
improve, and more than likely
increase the gap that already
exists.

 

[Vader_Storm]

For starters it's hilarious that
you would use Drumgoole as
an example to make your point.
That's the same Drumgoole who
you over hyped and did Zero.
He' s now become your whipping
boy...too funny.

Secondly, I'll give you that they
can and will improve. The point I
made, that you of course wouldn't
address, is that the other ACC
teams have players who were
far and away better than ours
to begin with. Again, they too will
improve, and more than likely
increase the gap that already
exists.

Thats why you compare them at seasons end, all freshmen and sophomores in the ACC against our freshmen and sophomores.

 

[Chescat]

AGAIN.....that does not speak
to the point that other ACC
teams are also improving and
whether it's the beginning,
the middle, or "season's end"
the gap between the two is big
at the start. That gap will more
than grow due to better and
better recruits entering those
programs yearly.

Get off your ORTG's and look at
Bball with some common sense
for a change. Stick to what you
know.....recruiting info. While
you're at it, ask yourself why
so many posters, some who
really know Bball take you to
task so often on here.
.

 

[Vader_Storm]

AGAIN.....that does not speak
to the point that other ACC
teams are also improving and
whether it's the beginning,
the middle, or "season's end"
the gap between the two is big
at the start. That gap will more
than grow due to better and
better recruits entering those
programs yearly.

Get off your ORTG's and look at
Bball with some common sense
for a change. Stick to what you
know.....recruiting info. While
you're at it, ask yourself why
so many posters, some who
really know Bball take you to
task so often on here.
.

Pitt lost 2 games in a row by 1 point each against Power 6 teams. One of those games was against Virginia on the road, a team with a current Top 50 Nationally rated defense. Our offense performed its best game of the season by far against Virginia with a team offensive rating of 113 which is solid. You can call it luck. Ill call it individual and team improvement.

 

[Chescat]

Pitt lost 2 games in a row by 1 point each against Power 6 teams. One of those games was against Virginia on the road, a team with a current Top 50 Nationally rated defense. Our offense performed its best game of the season by far against Virginia with a team offensive rating of 113 which is solid. You can call it luck. Ill call it individual and team improvement.

When did I call it luck? I
agree they're improving.
My point was and still is
that despite our improvement,
the talent gap is worsening
because those other ACC
teams are bringing in better
talent yearly.