Wake Forest Game & Other Dribbles ...

[DT_PITT]

** I decided to wait a while to post thoughts from the Panthers loss to Wake Forest today. I walked out of the Pete far too angry.

** It’s been quite a while since I’ve walked out of the Pete angry from a loss. For a couple of years now, losses have mostly generated a greater amount of ambivalence that anything else.

** I guess it’s good that I can get angry about a Pitt Hoops loss again. After all, isn’t it the reason we are fans is because we can care so very much, regardless of the outcome.

** But that might be the only positive emotion I can describe from this game. There were plenty in the other direction for sure.

** I will start with an easier one … in many ways this loss left me perplexed. I just can’t figure out exactly why this team is not progressing in its ability to execute. That was more evident today than at any point this year.

** Actually, we’ve never really ever executed on the offensive end all year long. But what really delivered today’s outcome was the inability to execute on the defensive end.

** Equally perplexing to me was Coach Capel’s use of the zone in so much of the second half. It was clear that the Demon Deacons were finding the corner for the three point shot throughout the first half. Without the foul trouble in the second half, this seemed to make much less sense.

** Several things seemed to add to the issues leaving open the corner. Perhaps one is tactical. We seem to prioritize playing our 2-3 matchup by pressing on the wings and the top of the key. Another is personnel. Ryan is doing the best he can defensively, but he just can’t cover the ground needed to the way the Panthers play zone. I’m beginning to become concerned with Justin as well. He doesn’t seem to react well in zone. And he’s always about a step behind closing on shooters.

** The biggest issue however, seems to be execution. Too often we had two men guarding the same spot on the wing leaving an easy swing pass to the corner.

** Regardless, like everyone else, I was highly enthused when the Panthers jumped out to the 22-6 lead early. But my friend next to me said at the time something we should all have feared. He noted that even though we were hitting shots early, that it still looked to him as if Wake Forest was still getting better shots than the Panthers.

** Those words proved to be all too true knowing that we were outscored 63-43 the rest of the way. That’s just a little hard to take on your home court against one of the very bottom teams in the conference.

** Here’s another way to look at it. The bad guys scored 63 points in the game’s final 30 minutes. No one who cheers for the Panthers can be happy about this.

** Perhaps you were one who was much more unhappy with what you watched from the Panthers on the offensive end. But the Panthers’ superior execution on that end was never what was going to win us games this year.

** And even decent enough shooting, including a winning offensive effort from Ryan, combined with just 8 turnovers, was overwhelmed by infuriating decision making in the final minutes by Xavier and Trey.

** One can only hope that both can learn from what they watch on film. Neither played team basketball in those final minutes. Perhaps it will finally resonate with them. It’s been a year and a half. It hasn’t yet.

** In the post game show, Curtis Aiken called it “hero ball.” That’s a good phrase and one certainly much, much nicer than a few of the ways I described it right after the game when my angry adrenaline was flowing.

** But to only look at offensive decision making in the final minutes misses the bigger picture. It’s beginning to become more than a little discouraging to watch a team who just doesn’t move the ball very well at all. Add to it that our shot selection often worse than discouraging.

** A shorter version is that we still can’t play offense against a zone.

** I’ll do my best to think about any reasons not to feel depressed about this loss. The most obvious is that the absence of Au’Diese was noticeable, especially on the defensive end.

** And this was indeed only one game. And never should one game, whether a win or a loss, be used as an indicator of what is to come for the rest of the season. Even if that game was one we all felt was the easiest possible win on the ACC schedule.

** Plus, a win at Chapel Hill almost eraces all of the negative spirit from this one.

** But unfortunately, this one loss did seem exactly like each of the games in our 13 game losing streak last year.

** That wraps up a much calmer version of what I would have written 6 hours ago. But that doesn’t mean I feel one bit better about it.

 

[SouthSidePanther]

Trey and X lost this game with their selfishness and stupidity. If Capel doesn't straighten them out, it's going to be a long year. Their teammates can't be real happy either. The fact is that they look much better when Murphy is more involved on the offensive end.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I felt worse after this game than Nicholls. Nicholls you could kind of make excuses for. This was the easiest conference game of the season and after getting up 22-6, Wake made us look like a JV team.

UNC is bad BTW. I thought maybe they coyld be a bubble team without Cole Anthony. No way. They have similar talent to us without him. I think we split with them.

 

[DT_PITT]

Trey and X lost this game with their selfishness and stupidity. If Capel doesn't straighten them out, it's going to be a long year. Their teammates can't be real happy either. The fact is that they look much better when Murphy is more involved on the offensive end.

Those "might" have been few of the words I was using walking out the Pete.

 

[Chaos]

Trey and X lost this game with their selfishness and stupidity. If Capel doesn't straighten them out, it's going to be a long year. Their teammates can't be real happy either. The fact is that they look much better when Murphy is more involved on the offensive end.

They're maddening. I wouldn't want to be teammates with them. Their selfishness really came after Murphy had that high output first game, and almost immediately Johnson quit passing to him for a few games. Jealous much? He's selfish and immature, and needs to grow up if this team is going to progress.

 

[PittMan 72]

** I decided to wait a while to post thoughts from the Panthers loss to Wake Forest today. I walked out of the Pete far too angry.

** It’s been quite a while since I’ve walked out of the Pete angry from a loss. For a couple of years now, losses have mostly generated a greater amount of ambivalence that anything else.

** I guess it’s good that I can get angry about a Pitt Hoops loss again. After all, isn’t it the reason we are fans is because we can care so very much, regardless of the outcome.

** But that might be the only positive emotion I can describe from this game. There were plenty in the other direction for sure.

** I will start with an easier one … in many ways this loss left me perplexed. I just can’t figure out exactly why this team is not progressing in its ability to execute. That was more evident today than at any point this year.

** Actually, we’ve never really ever executed on the offensive end all year long. But what really delivered today’s outcome was the inability to execute on the defensive end.

** Equally perplexing to me was Coach Capel’s use of the zone in so much of the second half. It was clear that the Demon Deacons were finding the corner for the three point shot throughout the first half. Without the foul trouble in the second half, this seemed to make much less sense.

** Several things seemed to add to the issues leaving open the corner. Perhaps one is tactical. We seem to prioritize playing our 2-3 matchup by pressing on the wings and the top of the key. Another is personnel. Ryan is doing the best he can defensively, but he just can’t cover the ground needed to the way the Panthers play zone. I’m beginning to become concerned with Justin as well. He doesn’t seem to react well in zone. And he’s always about a step behind closing on shooters.

** The biggest issue however, seems to be execution. Too often we had two men guarding the same spot on the wing leaving an easy swing pass to the corner.

** Regardless, like everyone else, I was highly enthused when the Panthers jumped out to the 22-6 lead early. But my friend next to me said at the time something we should all have feared. He noted that even though we were hitting shots early, that it still looked to him as if Wake Forest was still getting better shots than the Panthers.

** Those words proved to be all too true knowing that we were outscored 63-43 the rest of the way. That’s just a little hard to take on your home court against one of the very bottom teams in the conference.

** Here’s another way to look at it. The bad guys scored 63 points in the game’s final 30 minutes. No one who cheers for the Panthers can be happy about this.

** Perhaps you were one who was much more unhappy with what you watched from the Panthers on the offensive end. But the Panthers’ superior execution of that end was never what we going to win us games this year.

** And even decent enough shooting, including a winning offensive effort from Ryan, combined with just 8 turnovers, was overwhelmed by infuriating decision making in the final minutes by Xavier and Trey.

** One can only hope that both can learn from what they watch on film. Neither played team basketball in those final minutes. Perhaps it will finally resonate with them. It’s been a year and a half. It hasn’t yet.

** In the post game show, Curtis Aiken called it “hero ball.” That’s a good phrase and one certainly much, much nicer than a few of the ways I described it right after the game when my angry adrenaline was flowing.

** But to only look at offensive decision making in the final minutes misses the bigger picture. It’s beginning to become more than a little discouraging to watch a team who just doesn’t move the ball very well at all. Add to it that our shot selection often worse than discouraging.

** A shorter version is that we still can’t play offense against a zone.

** I’ll do my best to think about any reasons not to feel depressed about this loss. The most obvious is that the absence of Au’Diese was noticeable, especially on the defensive end.

** And this was indeed only one game. And never should one game, whether a win or a loss, be used as an indicator of what is to come for the rest of the season. Even if that game was one we all felt was the easiest possible win on the ACC schedule.

** Plus, a win at Chapel Hill almost eraces all of the negative spirit from this one.

** But unfortunately, this one loss did seem exactly like each of the games in our 13 game losing streak last year.

** That wraps up a much calmer version of what I would have written 6 hours ago. But that doesn’t mean I feel one bit better about it.

Agree with just about all of this.

But also think it needs to be pointed out that on one of Pitt’s late empty possessions with a chance to take the lead, several players - including Murphy - passed up open looks to shoot. That certainly contributed to Pitt’s 3 minute + scoring drought at the end.

Appeared as if some guys tightened up at that critical juncture and were looking to defer to others to make the big shot. Guess it’s part of the growth and learning curve?

Tough outcome to sit through. Pretty nice turnout at the Pete today, too. Have to see if these guys can show some resilience and resolve. Hope Toney returns soon.

 

[pittbb80]

** And even decent enough shooting, including a winning offensive effort from Ryan, combined with just 8 turnovers, was overwhelmed by infuriating decision making in the final minutes by Xavier and Trey.

** One can only hope that both can learn from what they watch on film. Neither played team basketball in those final minutes. Perhaps it will finally resonate with them. It’s been been a year and a half and it hasn’t yet

the last point is perhaps the most discouraging especially with Trey. I’ve seen X at least sometimes make some nice passes off his dribble penetration. After the awful start he’s at least improved a bit (could he have gotten worse) Hopefully he realizes he has a long way to go to be an NBA prospect and starts to put the effort in to improving his all around game.

with Trey he’s a one trick pony. Chuck up a three or put your head down and drive to your right He had a number of chances to kick it out to Ryan for a wide open three and never once looked his way.

the hope coming into this year is both guys would improve their shooting and play more under control. Kick the ball out more and pull up more. The fact we’ve seen no improvement is both frustrating and worrisome.

Capel has said he doesn’t think it’s selfishness but more of a confidence and wanting to make the big play. He said he likes guys to want to make the big play. But at some point when they keep forcing things I’m not sure I agree with him.

I said it in another thread that Trey and X are both our two best players and two worst players This team won’t win enough if that remains the case

 

[rockypanther]

It's really looking like X and Trey are turning into Mike Young and Jamel Artis. This is by far what worries me the most. Well that and everything DT also said from a tactical basketball sense as well.

Bottom line is two of our better players aren't doing their job. Our coaches aren't holding them accountable or figuring out a way to run an offense that doesn't rely on X or Trey bringing the ball up the court and trying to lead whatever offense we try to run.

If things don't quickly change we will struggle to get more than 6 ACC wins.

 

[docpanther26]

It's really looking like X and Trey are turning into Mike Young and Jamel Artis. This is by far what worries me the most. Well that and everything DT also said from a tactical basketball sense as well.

Bottom line is two of our better players aren't doing their job. Our coaches aren't holding them accountable or figuring out a way to run an offense that doesn't rely on X or Trey bringing the ball up the court and trying to lead whatever offense we try to run.

If things don't quickly change we will struggle to get more than 6 ACC wins.

No doubt I agree with everything said, we have no one else to go to should we bench X or Trey. I can only imagine the locker room was a hot mess after this game. That being said maybe one of the others needs to provide a friendly reality check that basketball is a team game.

I played another sport at Pitt and have coached other sports. I love watching basketball but won’t pretend I can coach it or keep up with the methodology of it.

However even I can recognize how defensively we were two steps off with every pass. Y’all tell me...is this laziness or poor execution, or some combination of both? Giving up 60 in 30 minutes is not going to cut it, especially when our wins will, as said multiple times be won on the defensive side.

To try and understand why Trey and X continue to try and pound a square into a circle is beyond me. Natural leaders understand they get better when they make others better. Again team game.

Hope this gets better. Nothing better than watching basketball be played as a team with plenty of ball movement and balanced scoring. Let’s be optimistic, move on and hopefully give UNC a bad day.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

The whole of X and Trey are less than the sum of their parts. Trey should be coming off the bench.

 

[DT_PITT]

Agree with just about all of this.

But also think it needs to be pointed out that on one of Pitt’s late empty possessions with a chance to take the lead, several players - including Murphy - passed up open looks to shoot. That certainly contributed to Pitt’s 3 minute + scoring drought at the end.

Appeared as if some guys tightened up at that critical juncture and were looking to defer to others to make the big shot. Guess it’s part of the growth and learning curve?

Tough outcome to sit through. Pretty nice turnout at the Pete today, too. Have to see if these guys can show some resilience and resolve. Hope Toney returns soon.

There was one look down the stretch that Murphy passed up that was pretty early in the shot clock. I got the impression at the time that he was trying to heed instructions to work for a shot. I think on that same trip, it would have been better than the shot they did get.

Thanks for mentioning the crowd -- it was a nice turnout. I was thinking in the way out because of the result today that it might end up being the best crowd we get all year.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

** I decided to wait a while to post thoughts from the Panthers loss to Wake Forest today. I walked out of the Pete far too angry.

** It’s been quite a while since I’ve walked out of the Pete angry from a loss. For a couple of years now, losses have mostly generated a greater amount of ambivalence that anything else.

** I guess it’s good that I can get angry about a Pitt Hoops loss again. After all, isn’t it the reason we are fans is because we can care so very much, regardless of the outcome.

** But that might be the only positive emotion I can describe from this game. There were plenty in the other direction for sure.

** I will start with an easier one … in many ways this loss left me perplexed. I just can’t figure out exactly why this team is not progressing in its ability to execute. That was more evident today than at any point this year.

** Actually, we’ve never really ever executed on the offensive end all year long. But what really delivered today’s outcome was the inability to execute on the defensive end.

** Equally perplexing to me was Coach Capel’s use of the zone in so much of the second half. It was clear that the Demon Deacons were finding the corner for the three point shot throughout the first half. Without the foul trouble in the second half, this seemed to make much less sense.

** Several things seemed to add to the issues leaving open the corner. Perhaps one is tactical. We seem to prioritize playing our 2-3 matchup by pressing on the wings and the top of the key. Another is personnel. Ryan is doing the best he can defensively, but he just can’t cover the ground needed to the way the Panthers play zone. I’m beginning to become concerned with Justin as well. He doesn’t seem to react well in zone. And he’s always about a step behind closing on shooters.

** The biggest issue however, seems to be execution. Too often we had two men guarding the same spot on the wing leaving an easy swing pass to the corner.

** Regardless, like everyone else, I was highly enthused when the Panthers jumped out to the 22-6 lead early. But my friend next to me said at the time something we should all have feared. He noted that even though we were hitting shots early, that it still looked to him as if Wake Forest was still getting better shots than the Panthers.

** Those words proved to be all too true knowing that we were outscored 63-43 the rest of the way. That’s just a little hard to take on your home court against one of the very bottom teams in the conference.

** Here’s another way to look at it. The bad guys scored 63 points in the game’s final 30 minutes. No one who cheers for the Panthers can be happy about this.

** Perhaps you were one who was much more unhappy with what you watched from the Panthers on the offensive end. But the Panthers’ superior execution of that end was never what we going to win us games this year.

** And even decent enough shooting, including a winning offensive effort from Ryan, combined with just 8 turnovers, was overwhelmed by infuriating decision making in the final minutes by Xavier and Trey.

** One can only hope that both can learn from what they watch on film. Neither played team basketball in those final minutes. Perhaps it will finally resonate with them. It’s been a year and a half. It hasn’t yet.

** In the post game show, Curtis Aiken called it “hero ball.” That’s a good phrase and one certainly much, much nicer than a few of the ways I described it right after the game when my angry adrenaline was flowing.

** But to only look at offensive decision making in the final minutes misses the bigger picture. It’s beginning to become more than a little discouraging to watch a team who just doesn’t move the ball very well at all. Add to it that our shot selection often worse than discouraging.

** A shorter version is that we still can’t play offense against a zone.

** I’ll do my best to think about any reasons not to feel depressed about this loss. The most obvious is that the absence of Au’Diese was noticeable, especially on the defensive end.

** And this was indeed only one game. And never should one game, whether a win or a loss, be used as an indicator of what is to come for the rest of the season. Even if that game was one we all felt was the easiest possible win on the ACC schedule.

** Plus, a win at Chapel Hill almost eraces all of the negative spirit from this one.

** But unfortunately, this one loss did seem exactly like each of the games in our 13 game losing streak last year.

** That wraps up a much calmer version of what I would have written 6 hours ago. But that doesn’t mean I feel one bit better about it.

-This team has a terrible basketball IQ.
-I agree, we played zone way too much in the 2nd half. Plus we play it with 3 guys focusing out front, so the wings are always open.
-Yes, our offense doesn't execute well, but if we played an entire game of tough defense instead of only 17 minutes, we win by double digits.
-Not sure X and Trey will learn, they should have figured it out a long, long time ago.
-I wouldn't call it "hero ball", I would call it just plain "stupid ball".
-The loss of Diese hurt us defensively.
-Not sure this was the easiest game, but it was one of them and doesn't bode well for the rest of the year.
-It is "erases", not "eraces" and UNC lost at home to GT today and gave up almost 100 points, so my guess is ol' Roy will have them playing lights out defense on Wednesday. They had been playing really good team defense prior to today.

 

[DT_PITT]

-This team has a terrible basketball IQ.
-I agree, we played zone way too much in the 2nd half. Plus we play it with 3 guys focusing out front, so the wings are always open.
-Yes, our offense doesn't execute well, but if we played an entire game of tough defense instead of only 17 minutes, we win by double digits.
-Not sure X and Trey will learn, they should have figured it out a long, long time ago.
-I wouldn't call it "hero ball", I would call it just plain "stupid ball".
-The loss of Diese hurt us defensively.
-Not sure this was the easiest game, but it was one of them and doesn't bode well for the rest of the year.
-It is "erases", not "eraces" and UNC lost at home to GT today and gave up almost 100 points, so my guess is ol' Roy will have them playing lights out defense on Wednesday. They had been playing really good team defense prior to today.

It was a typo … tough crowd LOL!

 

[PittMan 72]

There was one look down the stretch that Murphy passed up that was pretty early in the shot clock. I got the impression at the time that he was trying to heed instructions to work for a shot. I think on that same trip, it would have been better than the shot they did get.

Thanks for mentioning the crowd -- it was a nice turnout. I was thinking in the way out because of the result today that it might end up being the best crowd we get all year.

It could be the biggest pro-Pitt crowd of the season. There I’ll probably be a lot of UNC pretend fans when they come here in 2 weeks. UVA will probably have a bunch come here to inflate the crowd, too. That’s also a Saturday game.

 

[Chescat]

Equally perplexing to me was Coach Capel’s use of the zone in so much of the second half.

Reason.....Protecting X when he was in foul trouble.

 

[DT_PITT]

Reason.....Protecting X when he was in foul trouble.

In the first half sure, but Xavier didn't pick up his 3rd foul until about 7 minutes left in the 2nd half and his 4th until somewhere around 4 minutes or so. We were using the zone for much of the time before that.

 

[Pav9870]

Thanks DT. Pitt doesn’t seem to value moving the ball on offense. For two years it’s been a dribbling exhibition. Last year no one could catch the passes, but I don’t think that’s the case this year. I can only remember one feed going to the hoop, was it Drumgoole feeding Champagnie? The defense is just a hot mess. We were calling out open corner shooters the second half and if Pitt did anything to adjust, it wasn’t noticeable. It would be so nice to see some kind of movement after a timeout some time.

 

[wbrpanther]

Agree with just about all of this.

But also think it needs to be pointed out that on one of Pitt’s late empty possessions with a chance to take the lead, several players - including Murphy - passed up open looks to shoot. That certainly contributed to Pitt’s 3 minute + scoring drought at the end.

Appeared as if some guys tightened up at that critical juncture and were looking to defer to others to make the big shot. Guess it’s part of the growth and learning curve?

Tough outcome to sit through. Pretty nice turnout at the Pete today, too. Have to see if these guys can show some resilience and resolve. Hope Toney returns soon.

I saw Murphy pass up one open shot late as opposed to the half dozen or so times he was wide open in the corner while X frittered away another possession.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I saw Murphy pass up one open shot late as opposed to the half dozen or so times he was wide open in the corner while X frittered away another possession.

I almost lost my mind when Murphy passed up those 2 shots. The first was deeper than he'd like and the 2nd was going to be semi-contested but our halfcourt offense is atrocious and I knew those were the best looks we'd get. We instead ran 30 seconds off the clock for the lowest percentage shot possibe: an Eric Hamilton 18 footer.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Let’s take a step back from the edge everybody . This is a very young team with slightly more than a years experience playing under this system .

There are no upperclassmen showing the first and second yr guys the ropes in practice . Sometimes hearing from your peers is far more meaningful than having a coach screaming in your ear .

Let’s keep this all in perspective, X and Trey aren’t Duke or Kentucky caliber recruits , yes they’re talented and Pitts best recruits in a few years , but they’re not ready to put Pitt on their backs and carry them to a post season tournament . They had a few great games as freshman , but they haven’t taken a quantum leap forward this year . They will be excellent bb players before their time at Pitt is over . This X talk to the NBA is so overdone it’s maddening , he’s no more NBA ready than probably 50 other underclassmen guards .

Justin C is the best newcomer and once again he’s not a game changer recruit . Murphy was a welcomed addition because as of how bad Pitts outside shooting was and still is . GD and KC could turn into valuable pieces down the road and Hamilton is a nice backup . This roster is far better than it was a few yrs ago , but it’s still not ready for primetime yet .

Comparing X and Trey to MYoung and JArtis is a disservice to both Young and Artis . Both were far more talented offensively and could actually carry the team on their backs . The problem is that X and Trey are currently the best options on offense and other than their ability to penetrate their offensive game isn’t very good .

Pitt needs to be a program that has 3 & 4 yr starters under this system and then have a talented freshman come in much like when Blair came in and turned Pitt into a serious contender . When decent freshman earn serious minutes it’s telling you all you need to know . JC would be a spot player this yr not a starter on any JDs teams .

As a matter of fact both X and Trey would’ve been backups last yr on any of JDs teams .

This program is still 2 yrs away from being a legitimate tourney program unless they land a game changing recruit .

Keep the faith ...patience is needed .

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

** And even decent enough shooting, including a winning offensive effort from Ryan, combined with just 8 turnovers, was overwhelmed by infuriating decision making in the final minutes by Xavier and Trey.

** One can only hope that both can learn from what they watch on film. Neither played team basketball in those final minutes. Perhaps it will finally resonate with them. It’s been a year and a half. It hasn’t yet.

** In the post game show, Curtis Aiken called it “hero ball.” That’s a good phrase and one certainly much, much nicer than a few of the ways I described it right after the game when my angry adrenaline was flowing.

It was more obvious today because it happened at the end of a close game, but there are numerous times every game that one of those two gets the ball and there is simply no way that they aren't shooting it. If they are open, fine. If they are well guarded, no matter. If they drive into the lane and are encountered by two or even three defenders, no big deal, they are still going to try to shoot the ball.

What they both need, and that we obviously don't have, is an experienced, good upperclass teammate who can tell them something along the lines of "if you two don't stop doing that I'm going to kick your rear end." Except less polite.

 

[pittjas]

It was more obvious today because it happened at the end of a close game, but there are numerous times every game that one of those two gets the ball and there is simply no way that they aren't shooting it. If they are open, fine. If they are well guarded, no matter. If they drive into the lane and are encountered by two or even three defenders, no big deal, they are still going to try to shoot the ball.

What they both need, and that we obviously don't have, is an experienced, good upperclass teammate who can tell them something along the lines of "if you two don't stop doing that I'm going to kick your rear end." Except less polite.

I think this is happening WAY less this year than it did last year.

And when it does it’s usually just because the team needs them to make a play... not just because they need to pad their stat sheets.

It’s difficult because this team is not yet talented enough where passing it around always gets us a good shot. Sometimes our best bet is really for X and Trey to make something happen. And sometimes they do that when it’s clearly not necessary to do so.

But they are both still young and have a lot of pressure on them. Maybe it’s just me but it seems people are being VERY critical of them this year.

 

[Dointhatrag]

I hope champagnie doesn’t get poisoned with this or leaves. He seems to be a. Ice building block to the program. I don’t see this as a tourney team with x and trey here but they were needed after the exodus for a quick fix. Hope capel sticks around to build a program.
We are two year out but I have hope.

 

[pittjas]

** I decided to wait a while to post thoughts from the Panthers loss to Wake Forest today. I walked out of the Pete far too angry.

** It’s been quite a while since I’ve walked out of the Pete angry from a loss. For a couple of years now, losses have mostly generated a greater amount of ambivalence that anything else.

** I guess it’s good that I can get angry about a Pitt Hoops loss again. After all, isn’t it the reason we are fans is because we can care so very much, regardless of the outcome.

** But that might be the only positive emotion I can describe from this game. There were plenty in the other direction for sure.

** I will start with an easier one … in many ways this loss left me perplexed. I just can’t figure out exactly why this team is not progressing in its ability to execute. That was more evident today than at any point this year.

** Actually, we’ve never really ever executed on the offensive end all year long. But what really delivered today’s outcome was the inability to execute on the defensive end.

** Equally perplexing to me was Coach Capel’s use of the zone in so much of the second half. It was clear that the Demon Deacons were finding the corner for the three point shot throughout the first half. Without the foul trouble in the second half, this seemed to make much less sense.

** Several things seemed to add to the issues leaving open the corner. Perhaps one is tactical. We seem to prioritize playing our 2-3 matchup by pressing on the wings and the top of the key. Another is personnel. Ryan is doing the best he can defensively, but he just can’t cover the ground needed to the way the Panthers play zone. I’m beginning to become concerned with Justin as well. He doesn’t seem to react well in zone. And he’s always about a step behind closing on shooters.

** The biggest issue however, seems to be execution. Too often we had two men guarding the same spot on the wing leaving an easy swing pass to the corner.

** Regardless, like everyone else, I was highly enthused when the Panthers jumped out to the 22-6 lead early. But my friend next to me said at the time something we should all have feared. He noted that even though we were hitting shots early, that it still looked to him as if Wake Forest was still getting better shots than the Panthers.

** Those words proved to be all too true knowing that we were outscored 63-43 the rest of the way. That’s just a little hard to take on your home court against one of the very bottom teams in the conference.

** Here’s another way to look at it. The bad guys scored 63 points in the game’s final 30 minutes. No one who cheers for the Panthers can be happy about this.

** Perhaps you were one who was much more unhappy with what you watched from the Panthers on the offensive end. But the Panthers’ superior execution of that end was never what we going to win us games this year.

** And even decent enough shooting, including a winning offensive effort from Ryan, combined with just 8 turnovers, was overwhelmed by infuriating decision making in the final minutes by Xavier and Trey.

** One can only hope that both can learn from what they watch on film. Neither played team basketball in those final minutes. Perhaps it will finally resonate with them. It’s been a year and a half. It hasn’t yet.

** In the post game show, Curtis Aiken called it “hero ball.” That’s a good phrase and one certainly much, much nicer than a few of the ways I described it right after the game when my angry adrenaline was flowing.

** But to only look at offensive decision making in the final minutes misses the bigger picture. It’s beginning to become more than a little discouraging to watch a team who just doesn’t move the ball very well at all. Add to it that our shot selection often worse than discouraging.

** A shorter version is that we still can’t play offense against a zone.

** I’ll do my best to think about any reasons not to feel depressed about this loss. The most obvious is that the absence of Au’Diese was noticeable, especially on the defensive end.

** And this was indeed only one game. And never should one game, whether a win or a loss, be used as an indicator of what is to come for the rest of the season. Even if that game was one we all felt was the easiest possible win on the ACC schedule.

** Plus, a win at Chapel Hill almost eraces all of the negative spirit from this one.

** But unfortunately, this one loss did seem exactly like each of the games in our 13 game losing streak last year.

** That wraps up a much calmer version of what I would have written 6 hours ago. But that doesn’t mean I feel one bit better about it.

Surprised these are as negative as they are. To me, this team simply can’t be judged by any one game... there’s going to be some pleasant surprises and some games like today.

But I guess the overall frustration about this game should be welcomed because it means we’re somewhat past the apathy of the last 2 seasons.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Sometimes our best bet is really for X and Trey to make something happen.

I agree with that 100%. The problem is that Xavier seems to forget too often and Trey has never really understood that sometimes the thing you want them to make happen is for them to create offense for someone else. They seem to too often think that they are only supposed to be creating offense for themselves. When one of them drives the lane and three defenders collapse on them they seem to completely forget that that means that they have teammates somewhere on the court who are wide open.

 

[pittjas]

I hope champagnie doesn’t get poisoned with this or leaves. He seems to be a. Ice building block to the program. I don’t see this as a tourney team with x and trey here but they were needed after the exodus for a quick fix. Hope capel sticks around to build a program.
We are two year out but I have hope.

This is what I’m talking about... Champagnie is averaging 11 and 6 as a true freshman in the ACC ... why the heck would he leave? Stop it with the Trey and X stuff... just because they sometimes try to make stuff happen, there’s absolutely NO evidence that they are somehow problems off the court or with team chemistry and people somehow making assumptions about this simply because of a missed pass or something is nuts.

 

[DT_PITT]

Let’s take a step back from the edge everybody . This is a very young team with slightly more than a years experience playing under this system .

There are no upperclassmen showing the first and second yr guys the ropes in practice . Sometimes hearing from your peers is far more meaningful than having a coach screaming in your ear .

Let’s keep this all in perspective, X and Trey aren’t Duke or Kentucky caliber recruits , yes they’re talented and Pitts best recruits in a few years , but they’re not ready to put Pitt on their backs and carry them to a post season tournament . They had a few great games as freshman , but they haven’t taken a quantum leap forward this year . They will be excellent bb players before their time at Pitt is over . This X talk to the NBA is so overdone it’s maddening , he’s no more NBA ready than probably 50 other underclassmen guards .

Justin C is the best newcomer and once again he’s not a game changer recruit . Murphy was a welcomed addition because as of how bad Pitts outside shooting was and still is . GD and KC could turn into valuable pieces down the road and Hamilton is a nice backup . This roster is far better than it was a few yrs ago , but it’s still not ready for primetime yet .

Comparing X and Trey to MYoung and JArtis is a disservice to both Young and Artis . Both were far more talented offensively and could actually carry the team on their backs . The problem is that X and Trey are currently the best options on offense and other than their ability to penetrate their offensive game isn’t very good .

Pitt needs to be a program that has 3 & 4 yr starters under this system and then have a talented freshman come in much like when Blair came in and turned Pitt into a serious contender . When decent freshman earn serious minutes it’s telling you all you need to know . JC would be a spot player this yr not a starter on any JDs teams .

As a matter of fact both X and Trey would’ve been backups last yr on any of JDs teams .

This program is still 2 yrs away from being a legitimate tourney program unless they land a game changing recruit .

Keep the faith ...patience is needed .

Very fair perspective, but we do need X and Trey to start buying into some better team basketball.

 

[DT_PITT]

Surprised these are as negative as they are. To me, this team simply can’t be judged by any one game... there’s going to be some pleasant surprises and some games like today.

But I guess the overall frustration about this game should be welcomed because it means we’re somewhat past the apathy of the last 2 seasons.

I think that's kinda what I said.

 

[pittjas]

I agree with that 100%. The problem is that Xavier seems to forget too often and Trey has never really understood that sometimes the thing you want them to make happen is for them to create offense for someone else. They seem to too often think that they are only supposed to be creating offense for themselves. When one of them drives the lane and three defenders collapse on them they seem to completely forget that that means that they have teammates somewhere on the court who are wide open.

Completely agree. I’m just saying there’s been A LOT more times this year where they have done that. Although at the end of the games they tend too go back to hero ball..

I just think it goes both ways, and I don’t think it’s because of selfishness. There’s times they pass up open shots to try to make a pass. X passed up a wide open 3 and we then turned it over today and Capel screamed for him to shoot it.

Neither just has a good feel for situations and what’s needed from them. There’s some situations they are too passive and don’t assert themselves enough, and others where they go all “hero ball”.

Criticizing them is fair. I just think people have turned on them which is absolutely ridiculous as those two literally brought this program out of the ground last year and will be the main reasons for any success we have this year.

 

[DT_PITT]

Completely agree. I’m just saying there’s been A LOT more times this year where they have done that. Although at the end of the games they tend too go back to hero ball..

I just think it goes both ways, and I don’t think it’s because of selfishness. There’s times they pass up open shots to try to make a pass. X passed up a wide open 3 and we then turned it over today and Capel screamed for him to shoot it.

Neither just has a good feel for situations and what’s needed from them. There’s some situations they are too passive and don’t assert themselves enough, and others where they go all “hero ball”.

Criticizing them is fair. I just think people have turned on them which is absolutely ridiculous as those two literally brought this program out of the ground last year and will be the main reasons for any success we have this year.

I don't think folks are turning on them. Just hoping to see some better team basketball.

 

[pittbb80]

Let’s take a step back from the edge everybody . This is a very young team with slightly more than a years experience playing under this system .

There are no upperclassmen showing the first and second yr guys the ropes in practice . Sometimes hearing from your peers is far more meaningful than having a coach screaming in your ear .

Let’s keep this all in perspective, X and Trey aren’t Duke or Kentucky caliber recruits , yes they’re talented and Pitts best recruits in a few years , but they’re not ready to put Pitt on their backs and carry them to a post season tournament . They had a few great games as freshman , but they haven’t taken a quantum leap forward this year . They will be excellent bb players before their time at Pitt is over . This X talk to the NBA is so overdone it’s maddening , he’s no more NBA ready than probably 50 other underclassmen guards .

Justin C is the best newcomer and once again he’s not a game changer recruit . Murphy was a welcomed addition because as of how bad Pitts outside shooting was and still is . GD and KC could turn into valuable pieces down the road and Hamilton is a nice backup . This roster is far better than it was a few yrs ago , but it’s still not ready for primetime yet .

Comparing X and Trey to MYoung and JArtis is a disservice to both Young and Artis . Both were far more talented offensively and could actually carry the team on their backs . The problem is that X and Trey are currently the best options on offense and other than their ability to penetrate their offensive game isn’t very good .

Pitt needs to be a program that has 3 & 4 yr starters under this system and then have a talented freshman come in much like when Blair came in and turned Pitt into a serious contender . When decent freshman earn serious minutes it’s telling you all you need to know . JC would be a spot player this yr not a starter on any JDs teams .

As a matter of fact both X and Trey would’ve been backups last yr on any of JDs teams .

This program is still 2 yrs away from being a legitimate tourney program unless they land a game changing recruit .

Keep the faith ...patience is needed .

Good post. I will add that I think part of the problem with Trey and X stemmed from last year when they were THE ONLY option for the team to win. So If they didn’t make a play the team would lose. I think that could have developed a mind set that JC is having a hard time reeling back in

I do think JC is right. You do want guys who want the ball in their hands and think they can make the Big shot. So it’s perhaps a delicate balance, especially when you have no other options in the bench to provide “teaching moments” of reeling them back in and destroying their confidence.

My hope is JC will get them to find the right balance. If they are still playing this way half way into their junior year then I think that will be a huge problem

 

[TWPitt]

We need a big or two who can pass from the post and allow us to work the ball inside out. Sarr had 4 assists yesterday and many other nice passes to outside shooter. We still don't have complete bigs on our roster, I think Amadasun, Coulibaly and Hugley will help fix this next year and allow for better ball movement as now we are still restricted against a zone to passing around the perimeter.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I can't argue with anything you said. In fact on the pay board, I said the same thing only I used "pissed off", it was the first time I was pissed after a Pitt basketball game in a few years, so I guess this is progress.

As for the frustrations you highlighted, yeah. I don't get how they aren't progressing and in fact regressing.

Maybe the success these two had last year was too soon.

I also think we really lack senior leadership and maybe didn't realize that is what JWF and N'dir brought to the team.

I just don't know. The lack of movement without the ball, the lack of finding the open guys in/against a zone on both ends, the lack of getting a body on a man for rebounding, the infuriating thing is these aren't "talent" things these are effort and attention to detail things.

What pisses me off most, is the ACC is down this year. It is a year some team can make a leap (Pitt) forward and maybe snag a bid, and this game seriously damaged this.

 

[gary2]

Thanks DT. Pitt doesn’t seem to value moving the ball on offense. For two years it’s been a dribbling exhibition. Last year no one could catch the passes, but I don’t think that’s the case this year. I can only remember one feed going to the hoop, was it Drumgoole feeding Champagnie? The defense is just a hot mess. We were calling out open corner shooters the second half and if Pitt did anything to adjust, it wasn’t noticeable. It would be so nice to see some kind of movement after a timeout some time.

I think Capel is much more recruiter than game day coach.

Pitt's biggest need was an influx of talent. He has/is providing that.

Looks like we will finally have enough acceptable bigs.

 

[Tonyt66]

I agree you want guys that are not scared of the moment but you want them to make the right play and that can be a pass to the open man and not forcing up a shot to be the hero and not thinking the hero always have to make the shot be a hero and make the right play.

Good post. I will add that I think part of the problem with Trey and X stemmed from last year when they were THE ONLY option for the team to win. So If they didn’t make a play the team would lose. I think that could have developed a mind set that JC is having a hard time reeling back in

I do think JC is right. You do want guys who want the ball in their hands and think they can make the Big shot. So it’s perhaps a delicate balance, especially when you have no other options in the bench to provide “teaching moments” of reeling them back in and destroying their confidence.

My hope is JC will get them to find the right balance. If they are still playing this way half way into their junior year then I think that will be a huge problem

 

[Chescat]

In the first half sure, but Xavier didn't pick up his 3rd foul until about 7 minutes left in the 2nd half and his 4th until somewhere around 4 minutes or so. We were using the zone for much of the time before that.

I felt he stayed in the zone longer this game because of the foul situation.
The first half showed Capel that he had to have X on the floor. When he
went out WF made their run.
I saw the zone as Capel trying to fend off foul trouble because without
Toney we had an entirely different rotation with X out of the game.
Drumgoole gave us nothing, and the two big attempt was a disaster.
The real issue was last week, Capel stated he wanted the ball in
X's and McDowell's hands at the end of a game. He further stated
that he trusted those two in that situation. Funny how irony works.
He got that very situation at the end of the game...didn't work out
to well.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Didn't watch the game yesterday--still haven't solved my VPN screwing up YouTubeTV so that I can't watch any games that are also being shown on a local DC area station. I suspect I will need to cancel YouTubeTV and then re-acquire it after shutting down VPN on my phone so that YouTubeTv doesn't get spoofed into thinking I have changed my home area by the VPN App.

That being said, looking at the boxscore, aside from all the other things discussed in this thread, it seems to show we are still suffering from not having enough of an inside game. To wit, Hamilton fouled out, Brown had 4 fouls in only 17 minutes, Coulibaly didn't score and had 2 boards. So they combined for only 13 points and 11 boards. In contrast, Wake's 6-8 and bigger guys, who outnumbered us 4-3 (although since Coulibaly played only played 4 minutes it was more like being outnumbered 4-2), scored 30 points and grabbed 17 boards with only the 7-footer (Sarr) having more than 2 fouls.

Next season's incoming bigs are desperately needed!!

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

In the last 2:43, when it was a 1 point game, Pitt missed all 5 shots and both free throws they had over that time period. The most troubling part is none of the 5 shots were good looks.

We can groan about different things, but the inability (or unwillingness by some) to run effective offensive sets in crunch time cost them the game. It's very disappointing to watch because we don't have players that are good enough to take over games on their own. And they aren't deep enough to sit the guys who think they need to play street ball and be the hero.

 

[PittMan 72]

I think Capel is much more recruiter than game day coach.

Pitt's biggest need was an influx of talent. He has/is providing that.

Looks like we will finally have enough acceptable bigs.

Right now he is. Because he’s still playing catch-up in terms of assembling the type of team he wants and needs to have a reasonable chance to compete consistently in every game; especially ACC games.

I’m most interested in seeing his coaching when things are hopefully more evened up in terms of a depth of talent situation.

You’re right, the addition of some more size next season ought to help. But the recruiting efforts have to continue. With talented players at ALL positions.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

So they combined for only 13 points and 11 boards. In contrast, Wake's 6-8 and bigger guys, who outnumbered us 4-3 (although since Coulibaly played only played 4 minutes it was more like being outnumbered 4-2), scored 30 points and grabbed 17 boards with only the 7-footer (Sarr) having more than 2 fouls.

But that's a disingenuous comparison, because Wake almost always had two guys on the floor who were 6-8 or taller and Pitt almost always had only one. Those Pitt players combined for 47 minutes, whereas the Wake players you are comparing them to played a combined 76 minutes. If those guys for Wake didn't outperform the Pitt guys in the raw numbers then it would have been very unlikely for Wake to win the game, and it would have been difficult for them to even be in it.

Add in the guy who mostly played the four for us and the comparison becomes 24 and 19 versus 30 and 17. And that looks a whole lot different.